Detective_Crockett Posted May 24, 2015 Report Share Posted May 24, 2015 Of course, not by us..we all love Tubbs! But I mean in general in the show, and by some people... Crockett gets more story centric episodes and the focus is always on Sonny by the start of Season 3 and 4, not to mention he didn't appear too much in Season 3, or 4.Sonny went through plenty of heartbreak but Tubbs lost his entire family (To the damn Calderones) and he didn't even get to marry Valerie. In Season 1 and 2 it was always Crockett and Tubbs, they had eachothers backs and always had gunfights and the episodes were focused on the both of them, but by Season 4 it was The Don Johnson show. (Not that that's bad, we all love Sonny, but it would have been nice to see more Tubbs.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Posted May 24, 2015 Report Share Posted May 24, 2015 (edited) Hi All , new poster. Been a fan of Vice for years. I like Tubbs overall, but he wasn't given the spotlight enough. I've heard whispers that there was behind the scenes animosity between the star, Don Johnson, and PMT. Maybe this is the reason why Tubbs was given such a short shrift on the show. We missed lots of opportunities to learn why Tubbs stands for "Tough, unique, bad, bold, and sassy"! I think Philip Michael Thomas' biggest spotlight was in "The Maze" where not only was he in the episode most of the time, but he also got to sing his new song, "Living the Book of My Life" with some great accompaniment by Jan Hammer. Edited May 24, 2015 by Bryan 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Detective_Crockett Posted May 24, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 24, 2015 I've heard whispers that there was behind the scenes animosity between the star, Don Johnson, and PMT. Maybe this is the reason why Tubbs was given such a short shrift on the show. I don't think that's true, because Don Johnson himself said that PMT is the nicest guy to spend 8 hours with daily, so I'm not sure... And also, welcome to the forums pal. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
COOPER&BURNETT Posted May 24, 2015 Report Share Posted May 24, 2015 Yes, and that's a BIG yes. Like you said, Don kind of took over in season 3, and at the time, I didn't care as he was my favorite character. Over time, I noticed it. CROCKETT & TUBBS were a team in the first two seasons, but after that, many times, they worked independently it seemed. They no longer seemed to hang together. One could argue that in the first season, Tubbs was learning VICE from Crockett, as he was new to the job, and Crockett had the gold badge, while Tubbs didn't. Crockett would have been Tubbs supervisor. I don't know when Tubbs first got his Gold badge (anyone remember?) but after he did get it, he went on assignment by himself quite a bit. Under used, and under appreciated? I think so. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrsEvanFreed Posted May 24, 2015 Report Share Posted May 24, 2015 In hindsight, I'd say MV became less an ensemble on Dick Wolf's watch. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
summer84 Posted May 24, 2015 Report Share Posted May 24, 2015 I think that it was because Don Johnson was the main character on the show. He was the star of the show and he got more publicity in the public. Also his name was credited first in the opening theme. I just wished that they had kept them together as a team. I also wish that they had given Gina and Trudy more storylines and screentime. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Posted May 24, 2015 Report Share Posted May 24, 2015 I think all of the side characters deserved better representation that what the show gave them... I really didn't enjoy Gina as a character, and her showcase episode, "Heroes of the Revolution" is one of my least favorite episodes. The fact it was chosen as a season finale boggles my mind. Just imagine if "Made for Each Other" hit big with viewers and became its own spinoff? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrsEvanFreed Posted May 24, 2015 Report Share Posted May 24, 2015 (edited) I don't think that's true, because Don Johnson himself said that PMT is the nicest guy to spend 8 hours with daily, so I'm not sure...And also, welcome to the forums pal.PMT and Don seemed to get along, but the latter clashed with EJO. Edited May 24, 2015 by MrsEvanFreed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
summer84 Posted May 24, 2015 Report Share Posted May 24, 2015 I agree that all of the side characters should have gotten more lines and focus as equally as Sonny and Rico. I read somewhere that their contract didn't allow them to work on other projects and the fact that John Diehl was most underrated of the whole cast with the few lines he got, I think it wasn't fair that they didn't allow him to work on something else. Maybe he would have stayed on the show. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
COOPER&BURNETT Posted May 24, 2015 Report Share Posted May 24, 2015 "Heroes of the Revolution" was Saudra's favorite Gina episode. Her very favorite of all the episodes was the pilot according to her. Heroes of the Revolution came as a result of Saundra singing the National Anthem during the World Series, (she didn't mention it to anyone, and flew there without asking for permission) and Michael Mann saw her on TV, and was both unhappy at first, but when he heard her sing (she has a beautiful singing voice), he sent her flowers, and told her he would have a show written just to showcase her singing talents. That is how the show came about. Perhaps it was the season finale due to writing it on short notice, and just the timing of it. Not sure on that one. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
summer84 Posted May 24, 2015 Report Share Posted May 24, 2015 "Heroes of the Revolution" was Saudra's favorite Gina episode. Her very favorite of all the episodes was the pilot according to her. Heroes of the Revolution came as a result of Saundra singing the National Anthem during the World Series, (she didn't mention it to anyone, and flew there without asking for permission) and Michael Mann saw her on TV, and was both unhappy at first, but when he heard her sing (she has a beautiful singing voice), he sent her flowers, and told her he would have a show written just to showcase her singing talents. That is how the show came about. Perhaps it was the season finale due to writing it on short notice, and just the timing of it. Not sure on that one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
COOPER&BURNETT Posted May 24, 2015 Report Share Posted May 24, 2015 (edited) Nice article and photo find summer84! Saundra said she was up recording the songs for the show at 2 and 3 am, then got very little sleep, and was on set early the next day! She worked hard for that episode, but she loved it. The scenes of her singing were her lip syncing to her actual singing she recorded in a studio. It really was her singing! Go back and listen to the singing in the episode. She has a beautiful singing voice. Edited May 24, 2015 by COOPER&BURNETT 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C Glide Posted May 25, 2015 Report Share Posted May 25, 2015 I agree with allot of what was written here and though Crockett got the spot-light, after many years of watching I believe Tubbs was portrayed as a much better cop than Crockett throughout the series. As far as not marrying Valerie, thank god he did not. He was far too good for her. Regarding Gina, not trying to upset anyone but she and her acting were the weak part of the series. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D. Posted May 25, 2015 Report Share Posted May 25, 2015 Don't forget that Tubbs gets to be the main lead in "Indian Wars", "The Cell Within" & "The Lost Madonna." Don had his old pal back with him in 2 episodes of Nash Bridges, so I think they worked well together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miamijimf Posted May 25, 2015 Report Share Posted May 25, 2015 Don't forget The Afternoon Plane where he was also the lead. No I don't think PMT was under appreciated. When people talk about the show they always mention Crockett and Tubbs, not just Crockett alone. They were a team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
COOPER&BURNETT Posted May 25, 2015 Report Share Posted May 25, 2015 I enjoyed THE GREAT McCARTHY where Crockett played second fiddle to Tubbs. It was a nice change of pace! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
summer84 Posted May 25, 2015 Report Share Posted May 25, 2015 I agree with allot of what was written here and though Crockett got the spot-light, after many years of watching I believe Tubbs was portrayed as a much better cop than Crockett throughout the series. As far as not marrying Valerie, thank god he did not. He was far too good for her. Regarding Gina, not trying to upset anyone but she and her acting were the weak part of the series.Maybe some parts of her acting was weak I also think that, but overall I liked her character as a nice cop. She showed of her acting skills in bought and paid for and heroes of the revolution and in some scenes of other episodes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
summer84 Posted May 25, 2015 Report Share Posted May 25, 2015 (edited) Don't forget The Afternoon Plane where he was also the lead. No I don't think PMT was under appreciated. When people talk about the show they always mention Crockett and Tubbs, not just Crockett alone. They were a team.I also think of them as a team, but in several episodes I must say that the camera was mostly on Sonny. Yes there are episode with Phillip Michael Thomas in the lead and enough so we got to know the character and Phillip Michael Thomas acting skills. He showed off his dance moves, his different accents and language something I liked. Not to forget his singing and laughter. Edited May 26, 2015 by summer84 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
summer84 Posted May 25, 2015 Report Share Posted May 25, 2015 Nice article and photo find summer84! Saundra said she was up recording the songs for the show at 2 and 3 am, then got very little sleep, and was on set early the next day! She worked hard for that episode, but she loved it. The scenes of her singing were her lip syncing to her actual singing she recorded in a studio. It really was her singing! Go back and listen to the singing in the episode. She has a beautiful singing voice. Yes a strong and big voice. I do remember her singing voice from when I heard her sing the national anthem. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavinsky Posted May 25, 2015 Report Share Posted May 25, 2015 (edited) hmm you know we did have a girlfriend episode in S3, but past that I dont really remember alot of development being made with him in S4 or S5, possibly because of the producer change and all that. I mean after all Dick Wolf wasnt known for getting vice and its appeal I thought, maybe that's why he focused less on the team and more on the Jobs and operations. plus the ratings dive caused by episodes like Missing Hours and all that. as it sounded like they were surprised they got a season 5, after all its the director who has the vision of what something should be along with the producers, if that changes things change abruptly on shows, as theres been a few times when you can blatently see someone elses hands in shows I've watched over the years. and Dick Wolf is a Dick to his characters. Edited May 25, 2015 by Kavinsky 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry B. Posted May 25, 2015 Report Share Posted May 25, 2015 Couldn't agree more, Coop. One of the magics of MV was its incredible, perfect mix of personalities and their balance and counterpoint. It definitely was a choral show, (as Hill Street was at the beginning of the 80s. No wonder Yerkovich was among its creators). Its unique blend of identities made that show THAT show. Johnson took the biggest part of the success, but this wouldn't have been happened without all the elements surrounding him. Think for a moment about a series without Tubbs or Castillo, or the girls, just imagine having this cool cop dominating the scene for the whole season's time. It would have been the 100th ordinary cop show, no matter if you put Armani and Ferrari into it. Just think about how every character enhances the impact of his next one: I mean, the way they behave, their clothes, their own way to be, the backgroud of each... Crockett's pastels are perfect near the neutral silky colors of Tubbs, not to mention the austere b&w look of Lt Castillo. No doubt about it: that magic blend was one of the (main) reasons of MV success. That said, since Johnson was more and more becoming a sex symbol, maniacally imitated by men and desired by women, Universal decided to ride the horse, turning that perfect TV Movie in the Don Johnson Show. That's one of the reasons the last series are weaker. I always liked Tubbs and the way PMT portrayed his character, and of course I disliked that change.I would have liked to see more him, as well as more Castillo (Bryan, you've got the award for the coolest avatar & signature) etc. But that's business guys. The only reason why TV exists is to sell time for commercials. The bigger the audience, the higher the price. Only one thing rules. You know which one? Yes, and that's a BIG yes. Like you said, Don kind of took over in season 3, and at the time, I didn't care as he was my favorite character. Over time, I noticed it. CROCKETT & TUBBS were a team in the first two seasons, but after that, many times, they worked independently it seemed. They no longer seemed to hang together. One could argue that in the first season, Tubbs was learning VICE from Crockett, as he was new to the job, and Crockett had the gold badge, while Tubbs didn't. Crockett would have been Tubbs supervisor. I don't know when Tubbs first got his Gold badge (anyone remember?) but after he did get it, he went on assignment by himself quite a bit. Under used, and under appreciated? I think so. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt5 Posted May 25, 2015 Report Share Posted May 25, 2015 I love Tubbs character and PMT did a fine job - although in later seasons you can see he had slightly less of a role but at that time Season 2 and 3 albeit briefly MV was competing against huge shows such as "Dallas " and "Dynasty" as well as "The Cosby Show" so they focused on DJ more to raise ratings!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Touch of Class Posted May 25, 2015 Report Share Posted May 25, 2015 I think one can strongly argue that Tubbs might have been underused. However, I think it's important that a sophisticate such as Tubbs leaves a little bit to the imagination... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
COOPER&BURNETT Posted May 25, 2015 Report Share Posted May 25, 2015 One thing is certain, PMT is a very good actor. Sad we don't see his talents more. I remember Saundra mentioning this, and that she was disapointed that he didn't go on to do more acting than he did. She credits this with being sheltered by the women in his life. More sheltering than he needs. He listens to them, and his career suffers as a result. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluepearl Posted May 25, 2015 Report Share Posted May 25, 2015 That said, since Johnson was more and more becoming a sex symbol, maniacally imitated by men and desired by women, Universal decided to ride the horse, turning that perfect TV Movie in the Don Johnson Show. That's one of the reasons the last series are weaker. I always liked Tubbs and the way PMT portrayed his character, and of course I disliked that change.I would have liked to see more him, as well as more Castillo (Bryan, you've got the award for the coolest avatar & signature) etc. But that's business guys. The only reason why TV exists is to sell time for commercials. The bigger the audience, the higher the price. Only one thing rules. You know which one? Perfectly observed !!TRUE ! Possibly a deeply female construction of a guess.Just what happened at the moment Universal jumped on the named stallion the honest and freed friendship between(to quote that with the 8 hours a day again) started to disintegrate.Also that this private friendship lost its stable state helped much to reduce 'THE MAGIC' with MV.That this question about Tubbs comes up at all (which is good!!) already shows that his state in MV simply is underestimated.NOT with us but... with the simple big usual audience then in the 80s.Go out - ask WHO is reminded with MV in these days - the answer is: DJ and... ELVIS!It is sad... simply very sad that no one 'usual' understand that the magic with MV was based in THE team!The team with BOTH detectives at the front.No one would speak about Crockett in the form it happens even in these times if Crocketts partner Tubbs would not has beenthe perfect fitting puzzle piece.To me a definite 50/50 with both. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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