Episodes that seem like they were not originally written for MV

[mirrorimageegamirorrim]

Do any episodes seem to you like they may have originally been written for another show but ended up being adapted (perhaps poorly) to Miami Vice? Many episodes in seasons 3-5 feel like this to me.   

Edited August 27, 2015 by mirrorimageegamirorrim

[Kavinsky]

Irish Eyes, viking bikers from hell (with Reb YAHHHH!!!!! Foreman Brown) Miracle Man, and the James Brown space caddet one come to mind right off the bat, along with the one episode in S5 about Sonny's Brother.

 

after all this was the old era of TV, where hell or high water you needed to fill the order of the episodes, while now you can get away with half of that.

 

hell I wonder if one of the producers had some old scripts lying around.

Edited August 25, 2015 by Kavinsky

[Vincent Hanna]

They travelled 10 years into the future and stole a X-files script for "Missing Hours"

[agent 47]

I've got to hand it to them though with episodes like Missing Hours and Viking Bikers from Hell, they went from being a show about the drug war to showing you what it would be like if someone was writing this show while on drugs. It's possible they were just scripts for other things the writers were working on but in between Dick Wolf's push for darker and more "socially conscious" episodes like When Irish Eyes are Crying and The Good Collar I guess they needed something to keep the viewers going who were probably not too happy with the change-up. Still it was those later episodes where I started with the series so I still have a soft spot for all the grade-a trippy rides into Dick Wolf's Wonka factory.

[vicegirl85]

I know a lot of people don't care for Irish Eyes but it's always been a favorite of mine!  Even though I agree that the vice squad would not have been involved in RL, I think it has the idealism (voiced especially by both Sonny and Gina), the team support (both Sonny's support of Gina's instincts and her watching out for Sonny in the final scene), the great music and visual style I always associate with the best of Miami Vice.  

 

The dark colors and Sonny's short spiked hair seem to be turn-offs for many (and since this was a season premiere it was a shock) but I grew to like the short hair, at least.  When the Daytona got taken out with the Stinger, it was a classic Vice moment. 

 

Missing Hours is just out there.  Free Verse and The Lost Madonna don't seem *to me* to be cases I'd expect Vice to be involved in.  It's been 25+ years since I watched Free Verse, so I might not be remembering it very well.  I did enjoy it at the time.  Recently viewed The Lost Madonna and thought it was well-done and had the Vice look; I just wasn't really feeling it as MV. 

[mirrorimageegamirorrim]

 

 

Free Verse...[doesn't] seem *to me* to be [a] case I'd expect Vice to be involved in.  

This is a great observation.  You've really made me examine why my perceptions are what they are because I've always viewed seasons 1 and 2 as being truest to the Vice ideal.  But after thinking about it, there are examples of episodes in the first two seasons that could be viewed as written for another show but adapted to Vice.  A couple of others I could cite are "Glades" and "Bushido".  The question is why do these early episodes feel to me, and probably so many others, like a natural fit in the Vice canon while many episodes from seasons 3-5 do not.  I'm guessing it has something to do with the stylistic and philosophical changes the show underwent when Wolf took control in season 3.  

Apply this test to any episode that seems unVice-like and see what you think:  If the episode comes from seasons 1 or 2, imagine what it would be like if its script were produced by Dick Wolf.  If the episode comes from seasons 3-5, imagine how it would have turned out if had been produced during seasons 1 and 2.  In my view, "Glades", "Bushido" and "Free Verse" would have turned out as awfully as "Viking Bikers", "Showbiz", "Missing Hours", "Cows", "Vote of Confidence", "Miracle Man" etc. had they been a Dick Wolf production.  Plus, I can actually imagine some of the duds that came out in seasons 3-5 being significantly improved if they had been created in the style of seasons 1 and 2.

When a show or a band or an author or any other creative entity undergoes a change in direction, fans who have been around from the beginning have a tendency to gravitate towards the older material.  It seems to be human nature.  (At this point I have to admit I feel the first two seasons are inherently better, regardless of the fact that they are the older seasons. In a bit of irony though, I think the show's most perfect episode is found in season 4-- the episode from which I draw my name.)                  

Edited August 26, 2015 by mirrorimageegamirorrim

[pahonu]

Maybe someone can add more detailed examples than me, but it would appear the first two season really did focus on vice crimes.  These types of crimes include: illegal narcotics, gambling, prostitution, and pornography  Anything outside of those areas would not be within the purview of a "vice squad", so would not be a natural fit. as far as story lines go.  A homicide investigation, for example, wouldn't be appropriate and would need to be explained why they were involved, i.e. Home Invaders.  Now that I think about it, the show had very few stories about pornography which is a big part of vice.  Death and the Lady and Heart of Darkness come to mind.  Also little about gambling, though I know there are a few.  It seems obvious the cocaine stories were the most popular, but that alone would get old after a while.

[king77]

Had a girlfriend who worked for NBC council around that time. I was told NBC was trying to save money across the board because they were pumping a fortune into Cheers and the Cosby show for talent. Alf was also expensive as was Vice because of the outside filming.

 

The locations were costing more and more and the word from the top was to do more "inside" shooting to save cash as Vice slipped in the ratings. So episodes were written with an eye to production costs. This was not the formula in the beginning.

[vicegirl85]

Had a girlfriend who worked for NBC council around that time. I was told NBC was trying to save money across the board because they were pumping a fortune into Cheers and the Cosby show for talent. Alf was also expensive as was Vice because of the outside filming.

 

The locations were costing more and more and the word from the top was to do more "inside" shooting to save cash as Vice slipped in the ratings. So episodes were written with an eye to production costs. This was not the formula in the beginning.

I think this was something that was pretty freely circulated at the time.  I didn't read about it so much in relation to other TV shows (compared to Vice), but did see a number of entertainment news articles citing the high production costs for MV.

[Spyder]

Had a girlfriend who worked for NBC council around that time. I was told NBC was trying to save money across the board because they were pumping a fortune into Cheers and the Cosby show for talent. Alf was also expensive as was Vice because of the outside filming.

 

The locations were costing more and more and the word from the top was to do more "inside" shooting to save cash as Vice slipped in the ratings. So episodes were written with an eye to production costs. This was not the formula in the beginning.

 

It definitely explains why MV took on such a low budget feel in the later years. The first two seasons kept the same expensive style and atmosphere as Mann's "Thief" from a few years prior, but by the tail end of the show, it just looked cheap. 

 

Apparently, NBC was originally spending up to $1 million per episode in the early years. I wonder how much they cut back by S4-5.

Edited August 27, 2015 by Spyder

[James]

Those Law & Order episodes which somehow ended up in Season 5...

[Viceguy]

Those Law & Order episodes which somehow ended up in Season 5...

 

Which ones, exactly? Never watched L & O.

[Tom]

It definitely explains why MV took on such a low budget feel in the later years. The first two seasons kept the same expensive style and atmosphere as Mann's "Thief" from a few years prior, but by the tail end of the show, it just looked cheap. 

 

Apparently, NBC was originally spending up to $1 million per episode in the early years. I wonder how much they cut back by S4-5.

 

NBC spent 1.4mUS per episode in season two on average (Back in the world episode exceeded budget nearly by 1m due to high cost of logistics cost for shooting the final scenes on the Keys and the night rocket fire scenes with the Scarab that had to be reshot.

In later episodes they did not cut back, they exceeded more and more. They just tried to put a lid on the costs.

Just to get a relation: DJ cashed 30k per episode in season 1 and was increased after a strike during El Viejo shooting to 130k per episode whereas PMT was increased to 100k per episode. John Diehl got around 9k per episode. Jan Hammer grossed 45k per ep in season 4 - I doubt that DJ knew that. A huge item also is the "book" as story writers are paid according to standard union amounts.At that time that was another 30-40k. Music rights had a budget of around 50k per ep on average (dependent on artist, the Stones song in the teaser of the pilot -which had a 5m budget - had that amount alone) as was the wardrobe. Do the maths yourself, if the two main actors get 230k out of a 1.4m budget, you have 7 main actors and around 100 full time equivalents of crew working on the show. Guest stars by the way only had 2.500 per ep irrespective of name.

BTW these numbers are not guessed but based on info from cast, crew and producers respectively.

Edited August 27, 2015 by Tom

[king77]

NBC spent 1.4mUS per episode in season two on average (Back in the world episode exceeded budget nearly by 1m due to high cost of logistics cost for shooting the final scenes on the Keys and the night rocket fire scenes with the Scarab that had to be reshot.

In later episodes they did not cut back, they exceeded more and more. They just tried to put a lid on the costs.

Just to get a relation: DJ cashed 30k per episode in season 1 and was increased after a strike during El Viejo shooting to 130k per episode whereas PMT was increased to 100k per episode. John Diehl got around 9k per episode. Jan Hammer grossed 45k per ep in season 4 - I doubt that DJ knew that. A huge item also is the "book" as story writers are paid according to standard union amounts.At that time that was another 30-40k. Music rights had a budget of around 50k per ep on average (dependent on artist, the Stones song in the teaser of the pilot -which had a 5m budget - had that amount alone) as was the wardrobe. Do the maths yourself, if the two main actors get 230k out of a 1.4m budget, you have 7 main actors and around 100 full time equivalents of crew working on the show. Guest stars by the way only had 2.500 per ep irrespective of name.

BTW these numbers are not guessed but based on info from cast, crew and producers respectively.

 

Much of what she worked on was contracts, both inside and outside, talent “Issuesâ€, scripts, agent/endorsement issues and crap like going to court because “Talent†got a ticket and he/she didn’t want to pay/go.

 

Much of the stuff she was involved in surrounded the networks ability to air the show. No e-mail back in those days, so runners hopped on planes and delivered contracts/paperwork that couldn’t be faxed. Agents in LA would make demands of behalf of clients in LA and she would have to fly to where the show was filming to negotiate and get signatures. Many late night calls and overnight flights.

 

I can tell you this, the lead talent makes a heck of allot more than their just salaries on these shows.

 

 

[James]

Which ones, exactly? Never watched L & O.

 

You know... The one where the whole episode is basically a courtroom battle/case thing. Been a while since I watched season 5 so I can't recall exactly.

[Guest MetroVice]

Post Retracted

Edited October 16, 2015 by MetroVice