Viceman Cometh Posted April 12, 2013 Report Share Posted April 12, 2013 Why the heck did Valerie show up to the meeting at the end between C&T and the Revillas? Man, that chick ruins everything. And what was that exchange between her and Luis Guzman, where Guzman tells her "this is not your fight" and she says "it is now"?Anyway, I watched it AGAIN last night and it STILL blew me away. It's still one of the best TV movies ever made. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MVfan Posted April 12, 2013 Report Share Posted April 12, 2013 Why the heck did Valerie show up to the meeting at the end between C&T and the Revillas? Man' date=' that chick ruins everything. And what was that exchange between her and Luis Guzman, where Guzman tells her "this is not your fight" and she says "it is now"?[/quote']I'm so glad to hear that someone else has wondered about this, too! I've never understood that reference. He talked to Valerie like he knew who she was (who her cover was, anyway), but how would he have known her at all? The only way that makes sense to me would be through her connection with Frank Sacco, but I don't remember hearing it said that Frank was personally aquainted with the Revillas. I guess that's supposed to be implied if he was buying his supply from them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viceman Cometh Posted April 12, 2013 Report Share Posted April 12, 2013 I'm so glad to hear that someone else has wondered about this' date=' too! I've never understood that reference. He talked to Valerie like he knew who she was (who her cover was, anyway), but how would he have known her at all? The only way that makes sense to me would be through her connection with Frank Sacco, but I don't remember hearing it said that Frank was personally aquainted with the Revillas. I guess that's supposed to be implied if he was buying his supply from them.[/quote']Yes, it does seem to be heavily suggested that Sacco is a Revillas customer, so it is conceivable that Valerie met them in her cover. Of course, that still doesn't explain why now "it's personal" to her." If she's trying to avenge Sacco's death, she should be mad at Tubbs (the guy she has sex with later that night), who killed him. Unless suddenly she's mad the Revillas put a hit out on Tubbs (the guy she slapped and threw out of her apartment for killing her gangster boyfriend). Man, Valerie was a headcase. That detached look she gave over Tubbs' shoulder when they were doing it later that night was chilling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MVfan Posted April 12, 2013 Report Share Posted April 12, 2013 I think it became personal to her because she realized that Rico (along with Sonny) was walking into an ambush at the meet with the Revillas. In that scene of Valerie in her office where she's looking at the old photo of herself with Rico & her sister, she seems to be thinking things over. Even though she was angry with him for killing Frank, she probably didn't want to lose him, either. Seems odd after the fact that she pulled a gun on him herself, but whatever. Like others have said, I think Valerie was always on the fence about Rico. This episode just happened to show both of the extremes of her feelings toward him!When she showed up to the meet with the Revillas, I honestly didn't know whose side she was on the first time I saw this episode - so even though her character flip-flops a lot toward Rico, it certainly made things more suspenseful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viceman Cometh Posted April 12, 2013 Report Share Posted April 12, 2013 This is just such a flippin' great episode. It could've been released theatrically. And check out that song lineup on the glossary -- would've made a helluva soundtrack album on its own! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavinsky Posted April 12, 2013 Report Share Posted April 12, 2013 hmm considering how long this episode is maybe all of that backstory was left on the cutting room floor? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt5 Posted April 13, 2013 Report Share Posted April 13, 2013 Probrably the finest episode of Miami Vice 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ViceFanMan Posted April 13, 2013 Report Share Posted April 13, 2013 Why the heck did Valerie show up to the meeting at the end between C&T and the Revillas? Man' date=' that chick ruins everything. And what was that exchange between her and Luis Guzman, where Guzman tells her "this is not your fight" and she says "it is now"?Anyway, I watched it AGAIN last night and it STILL blew me away. It's still one of the best TV movies ever made.[/quote']Valerie had started to "lose" herself in her cover...and the NYPD was so corrupt and bad, that she didn't know up from down anymore. I'm sure she knew Guzman from her cover and that's what he meant by the comment.I could not really stand Valerie ...in my opinion she was a "user" (no I'm not talking drugs ) and continually took advantage of Tubbs. Even though they had a past together...she was not my favorite girl for him. You're right...she ruined practically everything she got involved with--she was a toxic lady! She just annoyed the crap out of me in each of her episodes. :rolleyes:I know a lot people like this episode...but again it was not one of my favorites. It just didn't quite come together for me, I thought Tubbs and Crockett did some pretty stupid things they normally would not do, the whole Val/Rico drama-crap, etc... I was somewhat disappointed. But, the very beginning (before they get to New York), as well as the music were awesome! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ViceFanMan Posted April 16, 2013 Report Share Posted April 16, 2013 However, even after all my comments with this one of why I don't particularly care for it (as well as the aspects I do like), I think my original rating was too harsh. I originally rated this a 4. If I could re-vote I'd give this a 6. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philippe Posted May 19, 2013 Report Share Posted May 19, 2013 Anyway' date=' which suit are you referring to? I also liked a lot of Crockett's suits and clothes in "Payback". He had on an aqua colored linen jacket, a pink V-neck shirt on underneath it, and the white pants. To me, that was the ultimate "MV" color scheme right there! [/quote']I was refering to the light blue Armani suit. In fact I loved it so much I have got it custom made - I need to lose some weight tho... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ViceFanMan Posted May 20, 2013 Report Share Posted May 20, 2013 I was refering to the light blue Armani suit. In fact I loved it so much I have got it custom made - I need to lose some weight tho...Yeah, any of the blues, teals, aquas, pinks, corals, whites, etc... in fashion, were superb and where part of what "MV" was all about! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vincent Hanna Posted June 21, 2013 Report Share Posted June 21, 2013 I've had a change of heart recently and I'm finally starting to warm to this great episode.Like others have mentioned, It was definitely a strange choice to set the season opener in new york where you hardly see the supporting characters, ferrari daytona, Miami etc. But in the end it works. It feels like a welcome change and C&Ts visits out of Florida are always wonderful.I really like the stories where they are actually after the big fish and out of their little pond. Paul Michael Glaser gets better every time he steps up to the directors chair. Smuggler's blues being another highlight.Highlights:I Love the way the shootouts are filmed, they are really long and drawn out. Usually they last like 5 seconds. But when they find Penn Jillette in his apartment, C&TS get ambushed and start sliding across the wooden floor from cover to cover whilst tennis ball sized gun shot holes fly across the walls(they wouldn't look that big in real life right? ah i don't care). It's pretty tense stuff. I liked how Tubb's effortlessly shotguns a guy over the hood of a car, That's good revenge for killing our favourite magician.Now lets get to the music, If Miami vice was JUST C&Ts walking through clubs looking all moody whilst "Pleasure seekers" plays for 45 minutes, I'd still watch it. OH I liked the goodbye girl scene where Crockett spots a guy in the mirror whilst buying Cigs, I remember being confused when I first saw it, I thought it was a goof that Crockett suddenly has his gun back after whats her face takes it. But i rewound it and sure enough, He takes out his back up gun and shoots the guy through the wall. Looked awesome.Sexy moments:- C&Ts chatting with the NYPD on top of the building and you see the empire state and crysler buildings.- C&Ts driving across the Brooklyn bridge(?) at night with jan hammer's music playing, It was slightly ruined by out of place ADR, Seriously why would Tubbs care about Sonny's new little playmate, There should be no talking whilst they drive at night. Didn't they ever see the pilot?- Phil Collins- Tubbs saying badass lines like "Tough, Unique, Bad, Bold & Sassy" "Get your hands OFF me"I'm suprised how much i enjoyed it, I could go on but I'm not going to bore you with that.10/10Season 2 annoys me sometimes from the lack of substance, but this one just has enough with style to enjoy. It also benefits being a feature length episode, Good call Paul Michael Glaser. They really should have done more feature lengths. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ViceFanMan Posted June 24, 2013 Report Share Posted June 24, 2013 I just got tired of the whole New York thing after a while, and I thought Crockett and Tubbs both did some very stupid things that they would not normally do. Valerie also annoyed the crap out of me and I thought that was a weird and annoying sub-plot thrown in. :evil:But, the music and some of the action were pretty awesome. I originally rated this one a 4, as it's not one of my favorites. But, if I could re-vote I would probably give it a 6 instead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vincent Hanna Posted June 24, 2013 Report Share Posted June 24, 2013 I just got tired of the whole New York thing after a while' date=' and I thought Crockett and Tubbs both did some very stupid things that they would not normally do. Valerie also annoyed the crap out of me and I thought that was a weird and annoying sub-plot thrown in. :evil:But, the music and some of the action were pretty awesome. I originally rated this one a 4, as it's not one of my favorites. But, if I could re-vote I would probably give it a 6 instead.[/quote']Can you give some examples of out of place behaviour?I guess Tubbs pretty much stalking Valerie looks a little out of place, But seeing their relationship in Rites of passage. You can tell their situation is a little one sided. You can't blame tubbs, To be fair i would have stalked pam grier in 1985, she was hot. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ViceFanMan Posted June 25, 2013 Report Share Posted June 25, 2013 Can you give some examples of out of place behaviour?I guess Tubbs pretty much stalking Valerie looks a little out of place' date=' But seeing their relationship in Rites of passage. You can tell their situation is a little one sided. You can't blame tubbs, To be fair i would have stalked pam grier in 1985, she was hot. [/quote']Yes...this is my original review and rating of this episode from 2010. Not much has changed, except I might give this one a 5 or 6 instead...a 4 might be a little harsh. But, this pretty much states what I don't care for in this episode, including what I thought was totally out of character and stupid/ridiculous behavior for both Crockett and Tubbs:I love the second season as much as the first...but this 2hr. season premiere was probably my least favorite of the season."The Prodigal Son" was just weird and bizarre' date=' and I thought Crockett and Tubbs did some stupid things that normally they wouldn't have. I liked the idea that they had to go to Tubbs' old stomping grounds of New York--and I love Jan Hammer's "MV" New York theme!But, I did [b']not want practically the whole episode to take place there! This is my opinion, but New York is crowded, dirty, crammed together, and with no color--and tons of TV shows have used that city as the normal location. A part at the beginning would have been enough and then they could've returned to Miami.Also, the part where they discover Gina and other officers shot--I thought it was really goofy and very "Charlie's Angels"-like when Trudy got her gun out but continued to hold onto her fancy teal purse! In reality she'd of dropped that thing immediately and wouldn't have thought twice about it.Then half the time in New York you couldn't quite tell what was going on and to whom it was coming from or intended for?? It was confusing a lot of the time. :confused: Then Crockett decides to "solo" it all over a strange city he doesn't know (yet he of course finds his way around with no problem) and ends up at some party where he meets some strange lady--that he lets take advantage of him and she steals his gun, no less! That was stupid and just didn't seem like Crockett--not that he didn't like the ladies...but putting himself in that situation in a strange place where he didn't know anyone or anything was just dumb! Then Tubbs runs around whining about and chasing his "whacked" out old girlfriend Valerie--who seems to have gone off the deep end.Then enter the scary-as-he** looking, evil ghost-minister from "Poltergeist II" bank manager (Julian Beck)--what was up with that..."troll" and his water?? He practically looked like he might get-it-on with his little glass of water while babbling about some figures and drug lords to Crockett and Tubbs. Whatever!! I think he thought he was still on the "Poltergeist" set...as he should have probably guest-starred in "Tale of the Goat" instead! He would have fit in much better in that episode.Overall I just thought for a 2hr premiere it should have been better...it was just too weird and bizarre. Most of it left me asking...huh?? Maybe I'm being too harsh here...but I gave it a 4. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vincent Hanna Posted June 25, 2013 Report Share Posted June 25, 2013 little harsh. But, this pretty much states what I don't care for in this episode, including what I thought was totally out of character and stupid/ridiculous behavior for both Crockett and Tubbs:Like Crockett says, he loves an adventure. He wasn't going anywhere in particular, just wandering around at night. I can buy that.You buy voodoo so what can i say Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueAir Posted June 25, 2013 Report Share Posted June 25, 2013 I thought it was disturbing how Tubbs gunned down that one guy in the street.I thought he should of given him a "Ah,ah,ah one more move and your're street pavement!".The bit where they tail that diver dude irked me a bit because how did he not see a nice car passing by him suspiciously.Other than that I loved the episode.BTW,did anyone notice that woman pointing at DJ and PMT from a car as if she's saying "Look its the guys from Miami Vice!" in this scene? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ViceFanMan Posted June 28, 2013 Report Share Posted June 28, 2013 Like Crockett says' date=' he loves an adventure. He wasn't going anywhere in particular, just wandering around at night. I can buy that.You buy voodoo so what can i say [/quote']When you're a cop working on a case, you don't go wondering around a totally strange city like New York City at night (of course completely find your way around with no problem) and then meet up with some whacko woman who you let take advantage of you and steal your gun no less! I'm sorry but that was weird, made no sense, and was stupid--especially for Crockett. He was way smarter than that! :rolleyes:I do NOT "buy" voodoo. I do not think it can harm me or have affect on me in any way. I'm a Christian...so God has me. But, a lot of people do believe in voodoo...and I do believe in evil, and it can manifest itself in many ways. Like the analogy Crockett was told about voodoo: Take the ocean...whether you believe in it or not, you stick your foot in it and your "sure's" gonna' get wet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vincent Hanna Posted June 28, 2013 Report Share Posted June 28, 2013 sorry, I still buy C&Ts wierd behaviour in Prodigal son more than some of the mystical aspects of the show. Which are bull 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt5 Posted June 28, 2013 Report Share Posted June 28, 2013 Very noticeable to see the woman pointing in car at DJ and PMT:shout: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ViceFanMan Posted June 29, 2013 Report Share Posted June 29, 2013 sorry' date=' I still buy C&Ts wierd behaviour in Prodigal son more than some of the mystical aspects of the show. Which are bull[/quote']The "mystical" aspects (or more accurately stated: the Voodoo and Hoodoo religions) themselves may seem weird or ridiculous...but like it or not there are things no one can explain. I don't believe that Voodoo curses can affect me or are going to harm me. But, many do believe in that stuff and use it to try and harm or cause destruction for others. Again, I also believe that evil does exist and can appear or manifest itself in many forms. However, none of the episodes had the Voodoo or supernatural curses/zombie things turn out to be "real", or have the cast totally buy into it. They always figured out what was really going on by the end of each episode. So, I'm sorry but I still view Crockett and Tubbs' behavior in "Prodigal Son" as "bull" or very ridiculous and even somewhat stupid ...which by the way really has nothing to do with episodes such as "Tale of the Goat" or "Whatever Works". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeepCover333 Posted August 10, 2015 Report Share Posted August 10, 2015 After watching again last night, I remain impressed with this episode. Many people focus on the bulk of the story in NYC, which is proper, but there definitely exists some vice gold in the opening few scenes. The jungle interrogation was striking, with the lead up of automatic weapons pointed at C/T moving to Tubb's display of humanity in offering water to the captive. The freeze frame of C/T reaction to the gunshot is solid. I also find the 'glades scene visually stunning. The shootout, explosion, fiery boat, all well filmed and presented. And I can't help but wish they had brought back Gene Simmons as an occasional reoccurring character throughout the series, the possibilities could have been endless with that character, as a connection, unknowing informant, perhaps finally an episode where C/T bust him. I'm not a huge GS fan, but he played the part so very well. I'm certain he was far too busy working the KISS machine to return had he been asked. The NYC move was risky for the show back then, and that is what makes it great...it works. I can't really add much that has not already been discussed, great shootout scenes, the segment of Sonny walking the streets, perfect. I must admit, I used to be somewhat annoyed by Margaret, but I find her a bit more appealing every time I watch this episode. The only reason I won't give this one a 10 is pure personal opinion, in that I would have liked to see a couple more surreal, classic slow motion cutting edge type scenes, 80's music video style, perhaps in one of the gunfight segments. Also, just a little more character development on the villains. A near perfect episode. 9/10 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vicegirl85 Posted August 29, 2015 Report Share Posted August 29, 2015 (edited) (snipped) Crockett decides to "solo" it all over a strange city he doesn't know (yet he of course finds his way around with no problem) and ends up at some party where he meets some strange lady--that he lets take advantage of him and she steals his gun, no less! That was stupid and just didn't seem like Crockett--not that he didn't like the ladies...but putting himself in that situation in a strange place where he didn't know anyone or anything was just dumb! Then Tubbs runs around whining about and chasing his "whacked" out old girlfriend Valerie--who seems to have gone off the deep end. (snipped)I agree with both of these statements, as well as the one earlier about Crockett driving around in NYC--not too realistic! (snipped) Flashfoward to NYC with a great montage of the city giving people who haven't been there (which I have) a feel for what its like being a fish out of water in awe of everything which Sonny was. (snipped) As was stated by others, that whole scene with Mr Johnston is one of the best filmed for TV. It really shows whoever wrote the episode has a keen understanding for the way the game is really played. People act as if their jobs are important or what they do is important but there are greater forces at play and it has to be emasculating to Crockett and Tubbs to find out that they can represent enemies to the state just as easily as those they track (or at least in the eyes of the powers that be)...still Crockett's comeback is classic "You are dirty ace and I'm patient." (snipped). Great ending too-Tubbs getting some only to pull an OJ (before he was a double murderer) running through the airport to catch up with Sonny before he leaves. Finally, back in the OCB Sonny and Gina with their chemistry and then Sonny being Sonny pushing her to the backburner as always but Gina always was their like a puppy dog hoping he'd change-a quick smile kept her in tow. There is nothing on network TV that remotely compares to this quality. The production value, the story, the acting, the music (shoot I didn't even mention that-I absolutely loved the instrumental Traffic song they played as Jimmy took C&T all over town, striking out wherever they went) are all top notch.More great comments and you've touched on some of my favorite moments in the episode, too."Sonny being Sonny pushing her to the backburner" Sadly a rather true statement--although he always did put work before a relationship! I've always wondered what the title "The Prodigal Son" referred to about this episode. I'm familiar with the biblical story of The Prodigal Son, but I just don't get the connection to this particular episode's storyline. Is "the prodigal son" referring to Rico, who's returning home to NY? Like others, I have always thought it referred to Rico's returning to his hometown. Unlike the Biblical Prodigal Son, he didn't find a warm welcome there, so it may have been meant ironically. Or whoever named the ep may have just thought it was a cool-sounding, catchy title with a hook most people would recognize, and may not have put deep thought into its meaning. Valerie had started to "lose" herself in her cover...and the NYPD was so corrupt and bad, that she didn't know up from down anymore. I'm sure she knew Guzman from her cover and that's what he meant by the comment.I could not really stand Valerie ...in my opinion she was a "user" (no I'm not talking drugs ) and continually took advantage of Tubbs. Even though they had a past together...she was not my favorite girl for him. You're right...she ruined practically everything she got involved with--she was a toxic lady! She just annoyed the crap out of me in each of her episodes. ViceFanMan, I agree that Valerie was a user and I've never understood why Rico could carry a flame for her for as long as he did. Yes, she liked him, but clearly she wasn't willing to give up anything in order to be with him. I had not thought about her losing herself in her cover, but I think you're right about that. After watching again last night, I remain impressed with this episode. Many people focus on the bulk of the story in NYC, which is proper, but there definitely exists some vice gold in the opening few scenes. The jungle interrogation was striking, with the lead up of automatic weapons pointed at C/T moving to Tubb's display of humanity in offering water to the captive. The freeze frame of C/T reaction to the gunshot is solid. I also find the 'glades scene visually stunning. The shootout, explosion, fiery boat, all well filmed and presented. I agree, these initial pre-NYC scenes were fantastic. And I thought they set the stage very well in order for me to be able to accept that there was any real way two Miami vice detectives would be sent on a mission to bring down some dealers operating in NYC. I'm sure a lot of the "police-work" stuff on MV (and other shows) is equally as unrealistic as the medical stuff on most shows--the difference is that I can accept stuff about guns, cars, cops, etc a lot better because I know very little about them. Medical bloopers annoy me because I do know something about that world. Many of you have mentioned some of the weaknesses of Prodigal Son (why was Sonny driving around NYC, or even walking around by himself late at night when he didn't know the city? Why did he fall into bed with a strange woman after seeing her a few times throughout the night in various locations? Why did Rico love Valerie when she didn't have the time of day for him? Some of the drug-dealing aspects of the plot were confusing and the players were hard to follow (for me!). But the music is great, the clothes are great, I really enjoyed the NYC flavor (would not have wanted to have additional episodes there as Miami seemed to suit the whole ethos of the show much better). LOVED the Take Me Home segment, Sonny coolly getting his stuff packed and heading to the airport without a hair out of place, not knowing if Tubbs would join him or not. You can feel that he, at least, is looking forward to going home. Especially enjoyed this since I don't think of him as being so deliberate and well-prepared most of the time Although Margaret is another one of Sonny's "different-looking" short-haired women--and I didn't like her nor did I feel like it was a smart of realistic move on Sonny's part--the segment with them at the taxi, before they kiss and both get inside was great, with Do You Believe in Love playing in the background. I think it's a super-entertaining episode and I would gladly watch it again tomorrow. Edited August 29, 2015 by vicegirl85 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivoryjones Posted November 25, 2016 Report Share Posted November 25, 2016 Just a little after Crockett and Tubbs argue with the NYC cops, you see a girl in a car enthusiastically pointing to them and talking to the driver. She seems to recognize DJ and PMT. If I'm not crazy, her lips might even say "Miami Vice" 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt5 Posted November 25, 2016 Report Share Posted November 25, 2016 7 hours ago, ivoryjones said: Just a little after Crockett and Tubbs argue with the NYC cops, you see a girl in a car enthusiastically pointing to them and talking to the driver. She seems to recognize DJ and PMT. If I'm not crazy, her lips might even say "Miami Vice" Ha ha ! yes Ive noticed this over the Years !? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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