ViceFanMan Posted July 22, 2021 Report Share Posted July 22, 2021 6 minutes ago, Tom said: Speaking of unrealistic… be happy that they did not cram the get-to-know, marriage AND death into one episode! True...that would have been even more ridiculous than what they did do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dadrian Posted July 22, 2021 Report Share Posted July 22, 2021 7 minutes ago, Tom said: Speaking of unrealistic… be happy that they did not cram the get-to-know, marriage AND death into one episode! That actually would have been perfect for me. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ViceFanMan Posted July 22, 2021 Report Share Posted July 22, 2021 Just now, Dadrian said: That actually would have been perfect for me. Yup...then Gina could have been there to console and help Crockett get through it. In the midst of that Crockett realizes Gina has actually always been the “one”, and over the season they get back together! But, of course ultimately that didn’t happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Posted July 22, 2021 Report Share Posted July 22, 2021 vor 13 Minuten schrieb Dadrian: That actually would have been perfect for me. That‘s a nice subtle way to say that you did not dig Sheena Easton… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Posted July 22, 2021 Report Share Posted July 22, 2021 vor 10 Minuten schrieb ViceFanMan: Yup...then Gina could have been there to console and help Crockett get through it. In the midst of that Crockett realizes Gina has actually always been the “one”, and over the season they get back together! But, of course ultimately that didn’t happen. Maybe too cheesy, like a long lasting Highschool romance to come true years after graduation ? And I fear in season 5 when ratings dropped they maybe would have killed Gina off to boost the ratings… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ViceFanMan Posted July 22, 2021 Report Share Posted July 22, 2021 Just now, Tom said: Maybe too cheesy, like a long lasting Highschool romance to come true years after graduation ? And I fear in season 5 when ratings dropped they maybe would have killed Gina off to boost the ratings… It probably would have been somewhat “cheesy” or even ridiculous to have Crockett & Gina get back together right after the death of Caitlin...but it would have eventually been a way writers could have re-introduced them. I think most fans were not pleased when they phased their relationship out, to begin with. Instead of the Caitlin-saga, in order to get ratings/viewers back, they should have created a story arc about C&G getting back together...and advertised the crap out of it! Nowadays it seems shows love to kill off main characters...but back then they most likely wouldn’t have done that to Gina, even if Saundra Santiago was leaving the show. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Gretsky Posted September 24, 2021 Report Share Posted September 24, 2021 The Caitlin arc is pretty contrived, but I like that we get a music industry background. I'm not a Sheena Easton fan, but she was pretty good here with some funny lines (e.g. "Testosterone"). It's weird seeing Teller talking and acting rather than doing his deadpan silent persona. Compared to too many of the other S4 episodes, this one has the virtue of being lively and lacking dreariness. Crockett's wedding announcement also allow for some nice interactions with the OCB crew, especially re Gina and Castillo. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeonHumidity Posted January 27 Report Share Posted January 27 (edited) Quote "And kiss me, Kate; we will be married a Sunday!" — Petruchio The entire Caitlin-marriage thing gets significantly less-stupid (still nonsensical, but at least there's some reasoning for it) when you realize how much they were trying to do Taming of the Shrew (she's a... shrew, he's an unorthodox ladykiller who's only foisted on her because he's getting paid; instant dislike; between her old s.o. being "Will"... and they did get married days later on Sunday). The only thing missing is the physical violence, and that was provided by outsiders. Haven't yet tried to work out if everything subsequent is meant to be based on one of the tragedies... Edited January 27 by NeonHumidity 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ViceFanMan Posted January 27 Report Share Posted January 27 (edited) 52 minutes ago, NeonHumidity said: The entire Caitlin-marriage thing gets significantly less-stupid (still nonsensical, but at least there's some reasoning for it) when you realize how much they were trying to do Taming of the Shrew (she's a... shrew, he's an unorthodox ladykiller who's only foisted on her because he's getting paid; instant dislike; between her old s.o. being "Will"... and they did get married days later on Sunday). The only thing missing is the physical violence, and that was provided by outsiders. Haven't yet tried to work out if everything subsequent is meant to be based on one of the tragedies... From the ridiculous marriage to Caitlin (they first meet & hate each other…but within a week or so they suddenly now think they are in love—and let’s get married! ), to the bizarre, over-the-top ‘Burnett’ episodes…they were all desperate attempts to try and bring back ratings & viewers, as the show was flailing. And you could tell. The marriage thing to Caitlin was ridiculous & out of nowhere. But, in one sense, they actually were realistic about the consequences of diving/rushing into something you don’t really know or understand. Neither Crockett nor Caitlin knew that much about the other…and both assumed the other would just compromise & acclimate into their career. Their marriage was already failing when she was killed by Hackman. Pretending MV-world was real, their marriage would not have lasted…even if Hackman hadn’t killed Caitlin & with the baby she was pregnant with. They’d of tried longer with the baby, but ultimately with both of their careers (that neither were willing to give up), it would have ended. The Burnett saga would have made more sense, if they’d of been the bizarre results of Crockett’s depression after Caitlin’s death…he gets drunk on the St. Vitus & passes out. Then the whole Burnett thing is his whacked-out dream. Except we don’t fully know this until he suddenly wakes up on the boat…realizing it had all been a nightmare. This would explain in a more realistic way, how he was able to go back and be a cop, carry a weapon, be best buddies with Tubbs again (even though he’d tried to kill Tubbs), and like nothing had ever happened before. But, unfortunately, all that Burnett crap supposedly did happen. Edited January 27 by ViceFanMan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeonHumidity Posted January 27 Report Share Posted January 27 (edited) I think Caitlin is disliked for the plot-stupidity, continual damsel-in-distress, and "taking Sonny away" factors, but she's not a bad character in and of herself, especially in this episode -- she's feisty, the last survivor of her band with her own lost love, and throws what are probably the most explicit double entendres anybody slings at Crockett, just so she can insult him some more! The show does indeed do a good job with showing the consequences of such a rushed marriage would likely be, considering they never even managed to come up with a real explanation for why they had to marry so quickly in the first place (as I said, when you realize it's Shakespeare, it at least takes the stupidest edge off). Nobody on the show is happy about it, either; Crockett points out Castillo, Switek, and Trudy are all lying to him, and has to proclaim his own ambivalent feelings with "No, but I got nothin' better to do on Sunday..." The episode inspired my first MV story with what that scratch-deep hesitancy and his usual guilt, inability to let go of Gina, and unspectacular coping skills might do. Edited January 27 by NeonHumidity Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ViceFanMan Posted January 27 Report Share Posted January 27 1 minute ago, NeonHumidity said: I think Caitlin is disliked for the plot-stupidity, continual damsel-in-distress, and "taking Sonny away" factors, but she's not a bad character in and of herself, especially in this episode -- she's feisty, the last survivor of her band with her own lost love, and throws what are probably the most explicit double entendres anybody slings at Crockett, just so she can insult him some more! The show does indeed do a good job with showing the consequences of what such a rushed marriage would likely be, considering they never even managed to come up with a real explanation for why they had to marry so quickly in the first place (as I said, when you realize it's Shakespeare, it at least takes the stupidest edge off). Nobody on the show is happy about it, either; Crockett points out Castillo, Switek, and Trudy are all lying to him, and has to proclaim his own ambivalent feelings with "No, but I got nothin' better to do on Sunday..." The episode inspired my first MV story with what that scratch-deep hesitancy and his usual guilt and unspectacular coping skills might do. In all honesty, I don’t get “Shakespeare” from anything in MV…even he would’ve rolled his eyes at this cluster-crap. But, I do think you’re right that a lot of fans dislike Caitlin for the reasons you stated. But I for one do not hate her character, and she’s not ‘bad’ per-say, or vindictive. I didn’t necessarily want the poor girl to die (although that was definitely a way to end her character). However, the flat out stupidity & ridiculousness of the plot definitely did not help this storyline or the character of Caitlin…in fact they kind of made them annoying, along with ridiculous. But, yes…I did like how they portrayed the results from such a stupid & ridiculous rush into marriage. And, I agree…they never really explained why it had to happen immediately?? It wasn’t like Crockett or Caitlin were going into a witness protection program or something like that…so the dive into the proverbial pool, without checking ahead to see if there was deep enough water to do that, was immature & dumb. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeonHumidity Posted January 27 Report Share Posted January 27 3 minutes ago, ViceFanMan said: In all honesty, I don’t get “Shakespeare” from anything in MV…even he would’ve rolled his eyes at this cluster-crap. .... But, yes…I did like how they portrayed the results from such a stupid & ridiculous rush into marriage. And, I agree…they never really explained why it had to happen immediately?? As I explained (or at least tried to), they heavily, heavily, heavily borrowed from The Taming of the Shrew for the episode. Crockett is Petruchio and Caitlin is "Kate" (which they even lampshade in episodes after this; bitchy heroines named "Kate" are usually a signal someone is borrowing this play). He is a highly-unorthodox hard-living kind of guy who is only with her in the first place because he's getting paid (in the play it was a dowry; here it's his job). They hate each other. Many insults are exchanged. They're still married within days, and on a Sunday. Just like the play. So if you want to blame it on someone, you can blame "Will" (not Cait's boyfriend, but that was another shout-out, too). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ViceFanMan Posted January 27 Report Share Posted January 27 (edited) 13 minutes ago, NeonHumidity said: As I explained (or at least tried to), they heavily, heavily, heavily borrowed from The Taming of the Shrew for the episode. Crockett is Petruchio and Caitlin is "Kate" (which they even lampshade in episodes after this; bitchy heroines named "Kate" are usually a signal someone is borrowing this play). He is a highly-unorthodox hard-living kind of guy who is only with her in the first place because he's getting paid (in the play it was a dowry; here it's his job). They hate each other. Many insults are exchanged. They're still married within days, and on a Sunday. Just like the play. So if you want to blame it on someone, you can blame "Will" (not Cait's boyfriend, but that was another shout-out, too). I got what you were saying …I’m just saying I really don’t see the definite “parallels” between the Shakespeare play & the MV Caitlin episodes. Especially as I don’t see Caitlin as a “shrew” necessarily. She’s needy in some ways (which can be annoying at times), but not vindictive or nasty/mean. I’ve not really heard before that that was where they got the idea of her & the marriage to Crockett from…but, maybe they did? Either way, it did not work or go over well, to boost ratings and/or recapture viewers. The shock value idea (which is what the Caitlin & Burnett episodes were aimed to do) backfired, and ultimately “alienated” a lot more viewers & caused ratings to plummet even further. Edited January 27 by ViceFanMan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeonHumidity Posted January 27 Report Share Posted January 27 (edited) 53 minutes ago, ViceFanMan said: Especially as I don’t see Caitlin as a “shrew” necessarily. She’s needy in some ways (which can be annoying at times), but not vindictive or nasty/mean. She insults and back-volleys the hell out of Crockett from the minute she meets him (and he goes right along) until the point she's "tamed" and changes her attitude, which is still very much like the play. I can think of at least two other Taming of the Shrew adaptations off the top of my head (The Cutting Edge, a movie where the hero is an injured college athlete-turned-dropout not unlike Crockett, and the recent season of Bridgerton), not counting 10 Things I Hate About You, which I've never seen. All of them postdate this episode. All of them do things differently (aside from having razor-tongued leads named Kate/Cait), but all of them are pretty clearly traceable to the source material. There are MV episodes based off books and movies (from "Heart of Darkness" onwards). Using one of the most famous plays from the most famous English-language playwright is not exactly out of the realm of possibility. For me, at least, knowing there's a reason why they took the Testarossa to the altar, even if it's a meta one, makes things slightly less random and stupid. ...Now I really want to go through the tragedies to see if they pulled anything from the Caitlin-Burnett downswing there, but at the same time, I don't. Edited January 27 by NeonHumidity Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ViceFanMan Posted January 27 Report Share Posted January 27 9 minutes ago, NeonHumidity said: She insults and back-volleys the hell out of Crockett from the minute she meets him (and he goes right along) until the point she's "tamed" and changes her attitude, which is still very much like the play. I can think of at least two other Taming of the Shrew adaptations off the top of my head (The Cutting Edge, a movie where the hero is an injured college athlete-turned-dropout not unlike Crockett, and the recent season of Bridgerton), not counting 10 Things I Hate About You, which I've never seen. All of them postdate this episode. All of them do things differently (aside from having razor-tongued leads named Kate/Cait), but all of them are pretty clearly traceable to the source material. There are MV episodes based off books and movies (from "Heart of Darkness" onwards). Using one of the most famous plays from the most famous English-language playwright is not exactly out of the realm of possibility. For me, at least, knowing there's a reason why they took the Testarossa to the altar, even if it's a meta one, makes things slightly less random and stupid. ...Now I really want to go through the tragedies to see if they pulled anything from the Caitlin-Burnett downswing there, but at the same time, I don't. They very well could have based some of the Caitlin episodes off of Shakespeare…I just didn’t really see that, and hadn’t heard that. But, I’m not a huge Shakespeare fan…so I’m not looking for that, either, lol. There were some episodes based off real life cases and/or events in the media at the time, throughout the show (although the majority are created by the writers)…perhaps there’s one based off a book, too. ”Love At First Sight” is definitely MV’s version of Hitchcock’s Psycho. So, there’s that one as far as famous past movies. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeonHumidity Posted January 27 Report Share Posted January 27 "Heart of Darkness" is a short story that's been adapted into things like Apocalypse Now, and "The Afternoon Plane" is based on High Noon, the movie. I'm sure there are more, but that's probably deserving of its own thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ViceFanMan Posted January 27 Report Share Posted January 27 25 minutes ago, NeonHumidity said: "Heart of Darkness" is a short story that's been adapted into things like Apocalypse Now, and "The Afternoon Plane" is based on High Noon, the movie. I'm sure there are more, but that's probably deserving of its own thread. I can see the similarities between High Noon & “Afternoon Plane”…although AP was a very poorly written & done episode and/or way to end the Calderone saga. “Out Where the Buses Don’t Run” & “Shadow In the Dark” are said to be based off real life cases from the 70s, and “Badge of Dishonor” is based off the real life Miami River cops case, around that same time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noggie Posted March 16 Report Share Posted March 16 I gave this 2 out of 10. I watched it maybe two months ago & can’t remember much about it other than I hated it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ViceFanMan Posted March 16 Report Share Posted March 16 24 minutes ago, Noggie said: I gave this 2 out of 10. I watched it maybe two months ago & can’t remember much about it other than I hated it. I think I rated this higher than a 2…but, I get you, it was a pretty ridiculous plot/episode. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.