The Ferrari Daytonas of Miami Vice

[volobrian]

I was contacted by Talbott's representative.  I guess Barrett Jackson called him up because they want Talbott to represent a Daytona going to auction.  He was asking if I knew which one it was.  Told him it wasn't either of the 2 original cars.  He had no description if it was being represented as an original or replica or ??????    Will be interesting to see what develops of it.  

[Scarab KV]

1 hour ago, Sonny-Burnett said:

Thanks for clarifying. I thought that looked like the Volo car as well, but wasn't sure from the note. And no idea that was your boat in the photo....NICE! ..that boat is a beauty!  Would love to see that boat in action some day.

I assume you are relatively local, as I am also in the Chicago burbs. Looking forward to getting the Daytona out here in  couple months for some driving.

As to the FL guy who apparently is claiming JN's car was used in the show, that really does amaze me as I know he would have had the history of JN's car explained to him by the man himself. So if he is actually making such misrepresentations, that is a shame. Fooling those not in the know in the name of a few bucks, I suppose.

But as CD suggested in another thread, if/when he tries selling and claiming it was one of the Show Cars, he will be in for a rude awakening as buyers will do an Internet search and learn of the real Cars used in the series. As to your scarab FB page, I will have to look for that as I am also fascinated by those boats and their history in the show, though I am not all that knowledgeable about those boats. Btw. from where did the FL guy source his boat?

Cheers, S-B

Thanks. You're seeing a picture from 30' lol

She's in pretty tough shape from sitting out side for 24 years, but unmolested and 100% complete as it was used on the show.

I hadn't planned on any pre restoration appearances and was apprehensive about displaying it as it was, but Brian reassured me that people don't care about the condition when it comes to TV vehicles. He was right. 

I live up in Fond du Lac, so the boat isn't very far from you.

The boat at Miami was purchased from Craig in NC. The guy claims he knows Reggie Fountain and that Reggie told him about it, so he went looking for it.

[Sonny-Burnett]

So now we have at least 3 of these happening simultaneously....the Florida Boat show (the history already explained by JN), the one from Car Chasers, and now this one going to Auction. I'm wondering whether the auctioneers do any due diligence prior to putting a car up for sale that has some claim to television history, or whether that is left solely to the bidders to determine.

[volobrian]

It might be the Car Chasers car, it might be the Boat Show car, it might be a totally different car.  Not to jump the gun, but it might be represented for what it is.  Just something to keep an eye out for.

[Scarab KV]

Nice av Brian 

[Mvice8489]

Given all of the ridiculous BS being spread about these cars, the value of Daytona reps will be dropping faster than the stock market has been lately!  Certainly not good for values.

[Stinger390X]

21 hours ago, Mvice8489 said:

Given all of the ridiculous BS being spread about these cars, the value of Daytona reps will be dropping faster than the stock market has been lately!  Certainly not good for values.

I certainly hope so because quite frankly I have been of the opinion that they are quite overpriced these days. After all, how much can a 30-40 year old car be worth ....REALLY?

Metal fatigue, rusted brake lines, old school carburation, and a host of other complex issues make me believe that they are quite over priced for actually what they are. I have seen some really good deals lately for around the 8-17 grand range

Edited February 19, 2016 by Stinger390X

[volobrian]

On 2/18/2016 at 9:58 AM, Stinger390X said:

I certainly hope so because quite frankly I have been of the opinion that they are quite overpriced these days. After all, how much can a 30-40 year old car be worth ....REALLY?

Metal fatigue, rusted brake lines, old school carburation, and a host of other complex issues make me believe that they are quite over priced for actually what they are. I have seen some really good deals lately for around the 8-17 grand range

This goes for any old / collectible car.  People buy them for nostalgia, not for their superior technology or condition.  And that's what drives the price up.

[volobrian]

So an interesting day... Talked to Michael Talbott, (this is grapevine information) I guess the people selling this Daytona at Barrett Jackson are the same people that sold the $500k Bandit Trans Am that Burt Reynolds "owned".  Basically, they are legally frauding the public.   They wanted to title the Daytona in Talbott's name.  I am sure this is so they would be able to say "owned by".  Legally, was it?  Yes.  But really? 

Then I get an email (below) from someone that is representing / marketing the Daytona "used" in the Miami Vice TV series for the cars owner.... 

"My name is XXXXXX.  I represent the owner of a Ferrari Daytona Kit used in Miami Vice TV series. We are promoting and auctioning the car at Barrett Jackson this April.  I was hoping you would be kind enough to talk to me about your Miami Vice car so I can get accurate history on our car.  Could I trouble you for 10 minutes on the phone?  Let me know the best day to talk if you are available."

[Stinger390X]

Sounds like the guy is not aware of his faux-pas?

Maybe he REALLY believes his car is one used in filming? Could be an honest mistake........but I doubt it.

[Mvice8489]

Outright fraud.  I can literally hear the price of these cars plunging by the minute!  What a joke

[Sonny-Burnett]

19 hours ago, volobrian said:

This goes for any old / collectible car.  People buy them for nostalgia, not for their superior technology or condition.  And that's what drives the price up.

I agree and they are truly one-off cars, appealing to those true fans of the car, and the show. I suspect there are few McBurnies out there that even run these days given that only some quantity around 100 or so were ever made. And even if they all were in driving condition, that would still be a small enough number to hold some level of value over the years. But it also is a reality that the fans of the show don't seem to have lowered their interest levels, even after 30 some years since these cars first hit the tv screen. And that fans of the show who were very young at the time of the first airing still are attracted to all things Vice even now, including the Daytona. I get that reaction from 20-somethings when driving mine around town.

In my case, though it was a one owner car, the Daytona was certainly not without issues as the owner had apparently let  others treat the car as 'driven hard, and put away wet'. It is still a work in progress, and likely will be for another year or two. Whether it will hold the cost of my restore and repairs is doubtful, but that doesn't really detract from my interest in restoring the car to a much nicer condition. It's all about pride in driving such a beautiful car with timeless lines, and a connection to a 30 year old show of which I am still a HUGE fan.

 

[Sonny-Burnett]

19 hours ago, volobrian said:

So an interesting day... Talked to Michael Talbott, (this is grapevine information) I guess the people selling this Daytona at Barrett Jackson are the same people that sold the $500k Bandit Trans Am that Burt Reynolds "owned".  Basically, they are legally frauding the public.   They wanted to title the Daytona in Talbott's name.  I am sure this is so they would be able to say "owned by".  Legally, was it?  Yes.  But really? 

Then I get an email (below) from someone that is representing / marketing the Daytona "used" in the Miami Vice TV series for the cars owner.... 

"My name is XXXXXX.  I represent the owner of a Ferrari Daytona Kit used in Miami Vice TV series. We are promoting and auctioning the car at Barrett Jackson this April.  I was hoping you would be kind enough to talk to me about your Miami Vice car so I can get accurate history on our car.  Could I trouble you for 10 minutes on the phone?  Let me know the best day to talk if you are available."

I hope MT doesn't lend his name to this blatant attempt at fraud, as that would likely just drive the price up to someone who didn't do their homework on the background of the show cars. As to that person who contacted you, I find that level of dishonesty incredible. First making the claim of having a show car, with absolutely no basis in fact or documentation, and then now trying to build up some false provenance to fool unsuspecting buyers. And we are not talking about scamming someone for say, an additional $10K on a standard Daytona, but likely something MUCH higher for alleging the car was driven in the series. Did you consider reporting this to Barrett Jackson?

[volobrian]

30 minutes ago, Sonny-Burnett said:

I hope MT doesn't lend his name to this blatant attempt at fraud, as that would likely just drive the price up to someone who didn't do their homework on the background of the show cars. As to that person who contacted you, I find that level of dishonesty incredible. First making the claim of having a show car, with absolutely no basis in fact or documentation, and then now trying to build up some false provenance to fool unsuspecting buyers. And we are not talking about scamming someone for say, an additional $10K on a standard Daytona, but likely something MUCH higher for alleging the car was driven in the series. Did you consider reporting this to Barrett Jackson?

MT says he's not doing that.  The guy that contacted me was a hired firm to represent the car.  So at least they are reaching out and doing their research.  If the owner is hiring a firm, he has intentions of big dollars. No one is hiring a firm and an actor on a $30k car. 

[king77]

I can’t make any statements on the Daytona, but I can provide some info on the 77 TA.

 

I have been working off and on locating one of the original movie cars. I have come up zero in the last 30+ years of research.

 

According to my research…

 

The recent Scottsdale auction, the 77 TA  was used as a promo car for the film. Many articles state it was made for the movie. This is untrue, the movie cars were all 1976 TA’s with some 1977 upgrades added like the nose and lettering. So if somebody has a tagged model year 1977 TA and says it’s from the movie, they are incorrect. The 4 1976 TA’s were damaged and totaled/salvaged at the end of the 1^st movie. Though rumors pop up from time to time noting one around. But to date, I have never came across one.

 

The Barrett-Jackson car was initially “lent” to Burt Reynolds at some point in time for use in a museum then somehow “Donated/Sold” to Mr. Reynolds museum. There are stories that the promo car was a gift to Mr. Reynolds, but my research does not make that conclusion. My research notes that Pontiac gifted Mr. Reynolds a 77 TA and it was possibly the car recently sold in late December. Mr. Reynolds has owned many versions of the Bandit cars so it's very hard to determine which one was a gift, or which ones he purchased.

 

From what I gathered the Barrett-Jackson car was used by Universal then stored away right before the 2^nd movie for some time before it resurfaced at the museum.

 

The vins are different from the car that sold in late 2014, last 4 being 4002, and the Barrett Jackson car last 4, 9933.

 

The car sold in 2014 also has a couple of very prominent items on the title. 1 is Mr. Reynolds real address and a warning about the mileage. During a previous sale, it appears somebody rolled back the odometer. 

 

Early in its existence the Barrett-Jackson car was touted as one of the cars in the film, but later discredited by Mr. Reynolds himself, who claimed he had the only surviving movie car. Which was also not true.

 

Mr. Reynolds during the early days of his divorce to Loni Anderson also came clean that one of the TA's he owned that he claimed was an original movie car was actually not an original movie car. So it wasn't a worth million dollars as Ms. Anderson had originally sought.

 

There were rumors Hal Needham had the rocket assisted car used for the bridge jump that he used in his Stunt School. But when Mr. Needham passed away, there were no 1976 TA’s in his estate.

 

During my search I also came across 3 76 TA’s that were purchased by the crew during the filming. They were actually driven to the sets and pictures were taken with Mr. Reynolds and other actors. Each time one come available they were noted as movie cars. A look see at the supporting docs noted that 2 of the 3 never upgraded the lettering until just before they came up for sale and the 3^rd had its nose change 2 years after filming.

 

 I know it doesn't mean anything about the Daytona, but it does shed some light on how cars can be manipulated through the years to be something they are not. 

 

 

 

Edited February 23, 2016 by king77
misspelled word

[Kavinsky]

On 2/16/2016 at 4:13 PM, jurassic narc said:

FOR THE RECORD: The first car was never on Miami Vice.  The second car has been verified by VIN as the car known as Car #1.  It is at Volo.  The only other screen used Daytona is in the hands of CameraDaytona.  It too has been verified by VIN.  All records from the time period show there were only two cars used on the show (Carl Roberts had negotiated the construction of a third when Ferrari donated the two Testarossas).  My car was never advertised by me or Volo as having been anything other than an homage to the car from Season Two.  But frankly, the fact that the new owner represents the car as the real deal simply adds him to a long line of people who have perpetuated the bogus stories about the Miami Vice Daytonas.  In fact, I hope everyone sees the irony of the post, Fake Daytona (since the Daytonas were vilified as fake Ferraris for so many years, that would mean my car ended up as a fake of a fake-sort of like a Mobius strip).

At any rate, the only place the REAL STORY of the Daytonas can be found is in this thread.

Again, if you aren't at the Volo Museum or in Camera Daytona's garage, you are not seeing a screen used Miami Vice (fake) Ferrari Daytona!! 

 

You know I'm sorry all this crap is happening to you jurrasic, figures all you are is an enthusiast and you get wrapped up in all this crap, good christ anything for a dollar it seems like with some people.

 

and yeah with the tv cars people want dents and dings to prove its the actual car, and its one of those weird things where you can tell just by the damage it was used in said scene, the driving car that was sold at auction from goldfinger had its air intake damaged from running into the false wall in the movie at 0:58

 

not to mention the grill seems abit banged up, also none of the replicas seem to get the paintjob and interior combo right, as it was a normal silver, not bearch silver, and it had a dark blue interior not black like the one in skyfall.

Edited February 23, 2016 by Kavinsky

[Kavinsky]

2 hours ago, king77 said:

I can’t make any statements on the Daytona, but I can provide some info on the 77 TA.

 

I have been working off and on locating one of the original movie cars. I have come up zero in the last 30+ years of research.

 

According to my research…

 

The recent Scottsdale auction, the 77 TA  was used as a promo car for the film. Many articles state it was made for the movie. This is untrue, the movie cars were all 1976 TA’s with some 1977 upgrades added like the nose and lettering. So if somebody has a tagged model year 1977 TA and says it’s from the movie, they are incorrect. The 4 1976 TA’s were damaged and totaled/salvaged at the end of the 1^st movie. Though rumors pop up from time to time noting one around. But to date, I have never came across one.

 

The Barrett-Jackson car was initially “lent” to Burt Reynolds at some point in time for use in a museum then somehow “Donated/Sold” to Mr. Reynolds museum. There are stories that the promo car was a gift to Mr. Reynolds, but my research does not make that conclusion. My research notes that Pontiac gifted Mr. Reynolds a 77 TA and it was possibly the car recently sold in late December. Mr. Reynolds has owned many versions of the Bandit cars so it's very hard to determine which one was a gift, or which ones he purchased.

 

From what I gathered the Barrett-Jackson car was used by Universal then stored away right before the 2^nd movie for some time before it resurfaced at the museum.

 

The vins are different from the car that sold in late 2014, last 4 being 4002, and the Barrett Jackson car last 4, 9933.

 

The car sold in 2014 also has a couple of very prominent items on the title. 1 is Mr. Reynolds real address and a warning about the mileage. During a previous sale, it appears somebody rolled back the odometer. 

 

Early in its existence the Barrett-Jackson car was touted as one of the cars in the film, but later discredited by Mr. Reynolds himself, who claimed he had the only surviving movie car. Which was also not true.

 

Mr. Reynolds during the early days of his divorce to Loni Anderson also came clean that one of the TA's he owned that he claimed was an original movie car was actually not an original movie car. So it wasn't a worth million dollars as Ms. Anderson had originally sought.

 

There were rumors Hal Needham had the rocket assisted car used for the bridge jump that he used in his Stunt School. But when Mr. Needham passed away, there were no 1976 TA’s in his estate.

 

During my search I also came across 3 76 TA’s that were purchased by the crew during the filming. They were actually driven to the sets and pictures were taken with Mr. Reynolds and other actors. Each time one come available they were noted as movie cars. A look see at the supporting docs noted that 2 of the 3 never upgraded the lettering until just before they came up for sale and the 3^rd had its nose change 2 years after filming.

 

 I know it doesn't mean anything about the Daytona, but it does shed some light on how cars can be manipulated through the years to be something they are not. 

 

 

 

the other thing is I heard they replaced the motors with Crate 350 Chevy's to get some more power out of it, as they might have retarded the camshafts for emmisions back then, killing a good amount of its power output.

 

plus I remember hearing they dubbed the engine notes, being that of the 55 from american graphiti, although I thought that car was destroyed

Edited February 23, 2016 by Kavinsky

[Scarab KV]

On 2/16/2016 at 3:22 PM, Sonny-Burnett said:

The contact with Brian sounds just like the people who contacted me for history and info on Star 1.

MT just posted this on his fb page for an appearance at BJ

Announcing my next personal appearance in 
West Palm Beach Florida.
4/8/2016 - 4/10/2016
Event Location:
South Florida Fairgrounds
9067 Southern Blvd 
West Palm Beach, FL 33411
I will be signing each day next to the Miami Vice Ferrari Daytona Spyder replica.

 

[Scarab KV]

When I tried to quote Brian, my page wanted to quote S-B and I couldn't reverse it. Page was stuck in quote mode.

What did I do wrong?

[king77]

17 hours ago, Kavinsky said:

the other thing is I heard they replaced the motors with Crate 350 Chevy's to get some more power out of it, as they might have retarded the camshafts for emmisions back then, killing a good amount of its power output.

 

plus I remember hearing they dubbed the engine notes, being that of the 55 from american graphiti, although I thought that car was destroyed

Based on my research is that only the bridge jump car received a engine replacement. A Chevy NASCAR racing engine. That car was totaled after the jump, or repurposed at a later date at Mr. Needham's stunt school. I have it on real good authority that right after the car was jumped, it was put behind a tow truck and taken off set and back to the shop that installed the NASCAR engine. The engine was removed, the original 455 was put back in and it was delivered to Mr. Needham for his use. That's where I lose the trail on that one. I believe the chassis is still around somewhere sitting without the NASCAR racing engine.

Of the other 3 2 were automatic's and the other was a manual.

They used the 455 manual for the outside tire spinning scenes and some of the road scenes and a couple in car.

The 2 automatics were mostly used for in car scenes.

The cars were so beat up that none were in running condition when the last 2 car scenes were schedule to film. One scene was never filmed and in the other scene the car was pushed into the shot.

Mr. Reynolds wanted a car after filming, but they were all toast, so Pontiac delivered a 1977 specifically for him. This is where all the confusion over the original Bandit cars begins. At the same time Universal wanted a movie car for Promo's but Pontiac would have nothing to do with rebuilding a tore up 76, so they delivered a new 77 TA to Universal for their use.

Pontiac for a short period of time sent Mr. Reynolds a new car every year. Because Mr. Reynolds became such an A-Hole, the new president at Pontiac stopped delivering new cars to him.

[Sonny-Burnett]

On ‎2‎/‎23‎/‎2016 at 11:05 AM, volobrian said:

MT says he's not doing that.  The guy that contacted me was a hired firm to represent the car.  So at least they are reaching out and doing their research.  If the owner is hiring a firm, he has intentions of big dollars. No one is hiring a firm and an actor on a $30k car. 

That's really my point exactly, that no one would be paying out big $s to 3rd parties unless they planned to REALLY markup up the auction reserve price with the expectation of a big payday. This, along with the seller's apparent knowledge that he does NOT have an original show car indicates intent to defraud, at least to me (otherwise why try to reinvent history and provenance). So whatever his PR/marketing firm is doing on his behalf I'm sure is with his advice and consent. I'd like to see BJ informed about the seller's apparent intentions to defraud the public before this car hits the auction block, but that's just me.

 

[Scarab KV]

The seller must be related to the owner of JN's car. This is the impression one past employees walked away with after talking to him at the Miami show.

"This guy took great pains to collect the original Miami Vice boat and car. He is really a nice Dude."

I spoke with the previous owner of the Scarab this morning. He said Martino found him through a boat forum thread about the boat. (Not real hard to find on Google as Craig was public about his ownership) He hounded him about selling the boat until it finally made sense to sell it. (price was right) 

Now this is Martino's version of the acquisition from his own site.

"One evening David Martino was having dinner with world renowned boat racer and builder, Reggie
Fountain. At this dinner David inquired about the original Miami Vice filming boat. With a big smile
Reggie told David that he was in luck, because the owner of that boat was joining them for dinner.
As a huge fan, David had been searching for this vessel for over two years, so you could imagine
his excitement when he learned that the owner of the boat would be joining them. A gentlemen, who
wishes to remain anonymous, sat down for dinner. David asked if the boat was for sale and the man
said absolutely not. You couldn’t even put a price on it. Through years of correspondence and coax-
ing David finally persuaded the gentleman to sell him the boat at an undisclosed amount. Today
David is the proud owner of the one and only Miami Vice filming boat."

[Mvice8489]

"Through years of correspondence and coax-
ing David finally persuaded the gentleman to sell him the boat at an undisclosed amount. Today
David is the proud owner of the one and only Miami Vice filming boat."   

 

LOL !!!        What a complete D-bag!

 

 

[Sonny-Burnett]

On ‎2‎/‎24‎/‎2016 at 0:29 PM, Scarab KV said:

The seller must be related to the owner of JN's car. This is the impression one past employees walked away with after talking to him at the Miami show.

"This guy took great pains to collect the original Miami Vice boat and car. He is really a nice Dude."

 

Are you saying that the Seller of the Daytona that's coming up on BJ auction is somehow related to Martino, or is JN's former car? I'd be surprised if he had two of these now, and that more likely it is another pretender.

Edited February 25, 2016 by Sonny-Burnett

[Kavinsky]

On 2/24/2016 at 11:33 AM, king77 said:

17 hours ago, Mvice8489 said:

"Through years of correspondence and coax-
ing David finally persuaded the gentleman to sell him the boat at an undisclosed amount. Today
David is the proud owner of the one and only Miami Vice filming boat."   

 

LOL !!!        What a complete D-bag!

 

 

Based on my research is that only the bridge jump car received a engine replacement. A Chevy NASCAR racing engine. That car was totaled after the jump, or repurposed at a later date at Mr. Needham's stunt school. I have it on real good authority that right after the car was jumped, it was put behind a tow truck and taken off set and back to the shop that installed the NASCAR engine. The engine was removed, the original 455 was put back in and it was delivered to Mr. Needham for his use. That's where I lose the trail on that one. I believe the chassis is still around somewhere sitting without the NASCAR racing engine.

Of the other 3 2 were automatic's and the other was a manual.

They used the 455 manual for the outside tire spinning scenes and some of the road scenes and a couple in car.

The 2 automatics were mostly used for in car scenes.

The cars were so beat up that none were in running condition when the last 2 car scenes were schedule to film. One scene was never filmed and in the other scene the car was pushed into the shot.

Mr. Reynolds wanted a car after filming, but they were all toast, so Pontiac delivered a 1977 specifically for him. This is where all the confusion over the original Bandit cars begins. At the same time Universal wanted a movie car for Promo's but Pontiac would have nothing to do with rebuilding a tore up 76, so they delivered a new 77 TA to Universal for their use.

Pontiac for a short period of time sent Mr. Reynolds a new car every year. Because Mr. Reynolds became such an A-Hole, the new president at Pontiac stopped delivering new cars to him.

Makes sense as its one thing if it needs a new engine for regular driving, as movie tricks can fill that in, but when you gotta make a jump you gotta make the jump.

and I remember hearing that on the fast and furious films that they always aimed for 500 HP motors for the stunts.

 

and yeah that sounds bad.