Episode #73 "Child's Play"

[vicegirl85]

9 hours ago, Robbie C. said:

Yeah, I was just talking about the roots of the nickname Sonny. 

100% Sonny was a nickname--although it would lead most people to believe he was the first son (IMO) instead of a younger son.  Honestly I think "brother Jake" was slapped on in S5 with no thought by the show runners/ producers/ writers, whoever is in charge.  It wasn't a very seamless addition to Sonny's saga, as opposed to the (also first-time) backstory about his dad in Bad Timing.

[Robbie C.]

8 minutes ago, vicegirl85 said:

100% Sonny was a nickname--although it would lead most people to believe he was the first son (IMO) instead of a younger son.  Honestly I think "brother Jake" was slapped on in S5 with no thought by the show runners/ producers/ writers, whoever is in charge.  It wasn't a very seamless addition to Sonny's saga, as opposed to the (also first-time) backstory about his dad in Bad Timing.

I agree based on the traditional use of that nickname. I also agree the brother just crept in because it was S5 and the quality control was even worse than it had been before. A case of too little, too late, if you will.

[vicegirl85]

On 5/21/2017 at 1:32 PM, Remington said:

Honestly, this episode isn't one of my favorites.

(snipped)

However, the plot is just too dramatic for me. The fact that the kid Crockett shot was some badass who deserved the bullet didn't help.

(snipped)

I can see why you'd feel that way, but for me, the fact that the child was not really some innocent trying to defend his mom--but instead a rather hardened juvenile offender--gives the episode a twist and an interest it wouldn't have had if the kid was a pure victim.  Similar (for me) to the way Katherine Borowitz played a somewhat unsympathetic victim of domestic violence at the hands of Bruce Willis' Tony Amato, it gave both the character and the situation more depth and more to think about, rather than each character being purely good or bad.  

Everyone's take can be different and I think that's one of the good things about the best episodes--we see shades of gray and human beings who sometimes are caught up in bad situations without necessarily being completely innocent.  So do they still deserve to suffer as they do?

Edited July 15, 2021 by vicegirl85
left out a word

[Jack Gretsky]

This isn't really my type of Vice - being issues-oriented and a bit trite with its dramatics.  We do get more of "Sonny on the edge" arc and the guest cast includes Ving Rhames, Isaac Hayes, and former Saturday Night Live star Danitra Vance.  

Interesting to see Caroline and Billy Crockett again - a real blast from the season 1 past.  But we get a lot of typical ex-husband/ex-wife talk ("Where were you when his tonsils were taken out?")

Despite its hot-button topic, this is kind of a sleepy episode - but it's certainly watchable - especially for Sonny's arc. 

(I did love the little scene in the car when Tubbs says to Crockett that he loves him and doesn't want to have to eulogize him any time soon - and the two of them gently slap palms.  I think that's the warmest interchange ever between them.) 

Edited September 21, 2021 by Jack Gretsky

[Mr. Vigilante]

6 hours ago, Jack Gretsky said:

This isn't really my type of Vice - being issues-oriented and a bit trite with its dramatics.  We do get more of "Sonny on the edge" arc and the guest cast includes Ving Rhames, Isaac Hayes, and former Saturday Night Live star Danitra Vance.  

Interesting to see Caroline and Billy Crockett again - a real blast from the season 1 past.  But we get a lot of typical ex-husband/ex-wife talk ("Where were you when his tonsils were taken out?")

Despite its hot-button topic, this is kind of a sleepy episode - but it's certainly watchable - especially for Sonny's arc. 

(I did love the little scene in the car when Tubbs says to Crockett that he loves him and doesn't want to have to eulogize him any time soon - and the two of them gently slap palms.  I think that's the warmest interchange ever between them.) 

I'm with you on the scene in the car.  That little high five showed that they really did care about eachother.

[RedDragon86]

Watched this again last night, great episode.

I would give it 9 out of 10.

It sort of has the "The Good Collar" quality and atmosphere to it.

The more I think about it season 4 isn't that bad.

 

Edited April 29, 2023 by RedDragon86

[ViceFanMan]

1 hour ago, RedDragon86 said:

Watched this again last night, great episode.

I would give it 9 out of 10.

It sort of has the "The Good Collar" quality and atmosphere to it.

The more I think about it season 4 isn't that bad.

 

I love "Child's Play", not sure I like "Good Collar" as much, but CP is an awesome & in-depth episode for Season 4! Season 4 as a whole is not that great...but there are those few awesome episodes sprinkled in, same in Season 5. It shows that the writers for those seasons could have still created great episodes/plots if they had really tried. 

[Glades]

1 hour ago, RedDragon86 said:

The more I think about it season 4 isn't that bad.

How comes? I always thought that for you the real MV ends with season 3?
The first time I watched all seasons of MV in a row, it was within a few months. And I liked all the seasons almost equally. Each in its own special way. I think this might have to do with the fact that MV's meta-narrative, which is told very subtly, is much easier to discern when there is little time between watching each episode.
But if I had to pick a favorite season, it would be actually season 4, albeit by a small margin. In season 4, the meta-narrative is simply told in the most virtuosic way with its climax, the Burnett arc

[RedDragon86]

7 minutes ago, Glades said:

How comes? I always thought that for you the real MV ends with season 3?
The first time I watched all seasons of MV in a row, it was within a few months. And I liked all the seasons almost equally. Each in its own special way. I think this might have to do with the fact that MV's meta-narrative, which is told very subtly, is much easier to discern when there is little time between watching each episode.
But if I had to pick a favorite season, it would be actually season 4, albeit by a small margin. In season 4, the meta-narrative is simply told in the most virtuosic way with its climax, the Burnett arc

Consistency is the key to a series. The thing is 1 to 3 you can watch one after they other.

Season 4 is a mixed bag, same with season 5.

One minute you are watching "Death and the Lady" and the next episode is about some over the top preacher on TV or miniature cows, Aliens and a frozen reggae guy, then it goes back to rationality with Mosca or "Baseballs of Death"

To me there are too many skip episodes.

Edited April 29, 2023 by RedDragon86

[ViceFanMan]

6 minutes ago, RedDragon86 said:

Consistency is the key to a series. The thing is 1 to 3 you can watch one after they other.

Season 4 is a mixed bag, same with season 5.

One minute you are watching "Death and the Lady" and the next episode is about some over the top preacher on TV or miniature cows, Aliens and a frozen reggae guy, then it goes back to sanity with Mosca or "Baseballs of Death"

Agreed...Seasons 1-3 are awesome (especially 2 in my opinion), and each episode is amazing. However, the end of Season 3, and on through 5, they started creating way too many bizarre, weird, and shock-value episodes to try and make fans watch (aliens, cow semen, moron viking-bikers that probably can't even spell the word 'viking', pathetic psycho theater dudes, whacked-out superhero wannabes, and even the Burnett episodes, etc...). It backfired, and it caused fans to leave and the ratings plummeted even further.  

Edited April 29, 2023 by ViceFanMan

[RedDragon86]

10 minutes ago, ViceFanMan said:

Agreed...Seasons 1-3 are awesome (especially 2 in my opinion), and each episode is amazing. However, the end of Season 3, and on through 5, they started creating way too many bizarre, weird, and shock-value episodes to try and make fans watch (aliens, cow semen, moron viking-bikers that probably can't even spell the word 'viking', pathetic psycho theater dudes, whacked-out superhero wannabes, and even the Burnett episodes, etc...). It backfired, and it caused fans to leave and the ratings plummeted even further.  

Shame how season 3 closed.

The season 3 finale should have been so much better as well. I would have loved if they ended it with "Forgive Us Our Debts", then they started season 4 premier with Hackman again.

A cliff-hanger sort of effect.

Edited April 29, 2023 by RedDragon86

[ViceFanMan]

Just now, RedDragon86 said:

Shame how season 3 closed,

The season 3 finale should have been so much better. I would have loved if they ended it with "Forgive Us Our Debts", then they started season 4 premier with him again.

A cliff-hanger sort of effect.

I actually really liked both the premiere and the finale for Season 3 (both were superb Gina-centered episodes, in my opinion)...but, it would have been interesting if they had ended on say "Forgive Us Our Debts". But, towards the end of 3, they had started to do these weird, bizarre, or goof-ball episodes. You could tell where things were starting to head. 

[RedDragon86]

1 minute ago, ViceFanMan said:

I actually really liked both the premiere and the finale for Season 3 (both were superb Gina-centered episodes, in my opinion)...but, it would have been interesting if they had ended on say "Forgive Us Our Debts". But, towards the end of 3, they had started to do these weird, bizarre, or goof-ball episodes. You could tell where things were starting to head. 

I do like "Heroes of the Revolution" but I would have liked if it was more dramatic.

[ViceFanMan]

2 minutes ago, RedDragon86 said:

I do like "Heroes of the Revolution" but I would have liked if it was more dramatic.

'Dramatic' with maybe more action? I actually thought the plot, with Gina, the death of her mom, Klaus, Pedrosa, the revenge/avenging of her mom, etc...was very well done!  But, that's just me. 

[johnnyfarragut]

Screenplay (original title: 'All God's Children'):

miami vice-all god's children.pdf

[Jack Gretsky]

On 9/21/2021 at 12:56 PM, Jack Gretsky said:

This isn't really my type of Vice - being issues-oriented and a bit trite with its dramatics.  We do get more of "Sonny on the edge" arc and the guest cast includes Ving Rhames, Isaac Hayes, and former Saturday Night Live star Danitra Vance.  

Interesting to see Caroline and Billy Crockett again - a real blast from the season 1 past.  But we get a lot of typical ex-husband/ex-wife talk ("Where were you when his tonsils were taken out?")

Despite its hot-button topic, this is kind of a sleepy episode - but it's certainly watchable - especially for Sonny's arc. 

(I did love the little scene in the car when Tubbs says to Crockett that he loves him and doesn't want to have to eulogize him any time soon - and the two of them gently slap palms.  I think that's the warmest interchange ever between them.) 

It looks like I was kind of down on this episode two years ago.  I found it to be a stronger experience during my current rewatch.  I think it's the ugly, hopelessness of the crimes involved (the more glamorous coke-dealers-on-yachts tales are easier to view as stylized fantasy) that make this a tough view.  But the interactions among our OCB squad and with Sonny, Caroline and Billy are terrific.