Tim Truman Release is coming!

[sdiegolo78]

On 3/31/2021 at 4:57 PM, Crockettt said:

For home condition you should use higher bitrate (256 or 320) if you want CD Quality mp3s.

The only CD quality possible is FLAC. MP3s are compressed, not the same amount of information as flac/cd quality

[Tom]

vor 17 Stunden schrieb Dadrian:

@Marcos

Am 4.6.2021 um 09:42 schrieb Marcos:

I was looking for Tim Truman because for many years I'm trying to get his guitar riff from Melrose Place and it has never been released. They made a stupid Melrose Place CD containing only the opening theme and some others uninterested songs. I really don't understand why it's so difficult to get an album with his soundtracks. I'm a fan of Millennium show which is also from 90ths and they released an album with Mark Snow songs without any problems and stress. It's so annoying because there is a market demand for something that they have available but for some mysterious reasons they can't release it. I hope I can have access to it while I'm still alive. They're losing an opportunity to make money with a generation that won't be here for long. 20 years waiting for something so simple like that. It's ridiculous.

welcome to the site!

Did Tim even play guitar, or did he use Michael Thompson on the MP song like he did for the season 5 MV score?

 

Welcome to the site Marcos!

I have been communicating with Tim Truman personally quite often over the years (he is quite responsive and a nice guy). Thus my bottom line is this: Universal is a completely ignorant and unprofessional bunch of people, as simple as that! Tim told them many times that there is a market out there, he also offered help with the publishing (he has all his cues safely stored on DAT, thus it would be easy and not time consuming to prepare them for digital download or spotify. But Universal always turned him down for no reason. Meanwhile, I suspect that they also want to distract from the fact that the have lost ALL Miami vice related master tapes: They misplaced and lost Tim´s master tape of "Everything´s inside of me" that he borrowed them quickly to use it for the episode "Redemption in blood", they lost ALL of John Petersen´s MV score tapes in a Universal lot fire (Petersen said that recently!) and they lost all episodes of MV in that same fire which makes it likely that there is no good MV master left for better BluRay 4K resolution encoding (Unversal only has the same HD master that all bluray vendors have to use for the last ten years). 

If Universal was a bit smart they would ask Tim to provide his masters and do a release. The math is easy: marginal cost for release are near to zero and even with only a few hundreds of thousands of downloads and 1 USD per piece (hundreds of score from MP and MV) they would easily make a windfall profit of  a few millions, more than with some movies. Instead the produce idiotic movies with millions of budget dollars instead, ignoring fans and disrespecting Tim, as he is NOT allowed to release them (Universal owns the rights). Tim would have to re-record completely as Jan Hammer did in 2002 with the Complete collection to overcome that legal hurdle).

Tim also told me that he offered them a soundtrack album bak in 1989. They declined.

But there is no remedy against ignorance and stupidity.

I recommend the following Truman interview in 2020 with a lot of answers:

http://celluloidtunes.no/a-conversation-with-miami-vice-composer-tim-truman/

And the one with John Petersen in 2021 where he confirms that Universal lost all his tapes (so did he, in a fire):

http://celluloidtunes.no/a-conversation-with-miami-vice-and-mtv-composer-john-petersen/

 

And to Dadrians question: Tim does not play guitar as far as I know. He plays drums and percussion (and piano of course).

 

Edited June 5, 2021 by Tom

[Leigh Burne]

1 hour ago, Tom said:

If Universal was a bit smart they would ask Tim to provide his masters and do a release. The math is easy: marginal cost for release are near to zero and even with only a few hundreds of thousands of downloads and 1 USD per piece (hundreds of score from MP and MV) they would easily make a windfall profit of  a few millions, more than with some movies.

I want a release of Truman’s music as much as anyone, but I feel like you’re massively over-estimating the profit margins here. Interest in a Truman score album is going to be limited to a relatively small number of hardcore fans of the show - no disrespect to him, but his name doesn’t carry the kind of broader commercial weight Jan Hammer’s does, so any release of his work isn’t gonna be attracting huge download numbers. Even on these boards you can find people who’ve no interest at all in his work, and this is a site specifically for people who are into Vice.

There’s also the fact that as much as 50% of the proceeds from any digital sale are going to go the the store providing the downloads, so Universal have immediately lost half their profit right there. That cut gets substantially bigger with physical media, but can anyone really see them doing a CD release of this stuff, especially in this day and age where physical media’s on the wane?

Again, none of this reflects my personal thoughts or desires, just being realistic.

[Tom]

vor 54 Minuten schrieb Leigh Burne:

I want a release of Truman’s music as much as anyone, but I feel like you’re massively over-estimating the profit margins here. Interest in a Truman score album is going to be limited to a relatively small number of hardcore fans of the show - no disrespect to him, but his name doesn’t carry the kind of broader commercial weight Jan Hammer’s does, so any release of his work isn’t gonna be attracting huge download numbers. Even on these boards you can find people who’ve no interest at all in his work, and this is a site specifically for people who are into Vice.

There’s also the fact that as much as 50% of the proceeds from any digital sale are going to go the the store providing the downloads, so Universal have immediately lost half their profit right there. That cut gets substantially bigger with physical media, but can anyone really see them doing a CD release of this stuff, especially in this day and age where physical media’s on the wane?

Again, none of this reflects my personal thoughts or desires, just being realistic.

Come on. They just need to be creative. I made out the maths. Just take the number of YoutTube downloads of "pirated" Truman scores as an objective start - I added them: These are into millions of views! Truman said it himself that it is ridiculous to say there is no market if we can see the viewing numbers of unofficial Truman postings being that high and a clear indicator of potential buyers. The "Freefall" cue, posted by a fan, alone has 130.000 views, many others around 100.000! There is no interest - are you kidding me?

Even if Universal had to pay 50% to spotify (which I doubt) that would still leave enough left: e.g. 2 million downloads times 1 dollar=2 mio minus 50%=1 mio minus 50% royalty for Tim Truman. Half a million for Universal for no additional work or effort? Not bad I think. And it shows how big their DISRESPECT for Truman is given the potential loss of earnings he has because they own the rights but refuse to use them properly and he is making no dime on it due to that!

And, Universal could also make their own download or on other cheaper platforms. Just lame excuses for my taste. Again: there is no work for them-no producing, no mixing, no polishing-, just putting it online and earn some easy money with more predictable earning return than most of their poorly done movies that have less than 25% profit after paying millions in fix payouts and box office percentages to its main stars! 

Truman has less market value just BECAUSE Universal disregarded him all the time and never released any of his music from any show he did (not even on the Melrose Place album), as opposed to Hammer who was on all MV albums but never gained much fame for anything else than MV to be honest. Truman also has also 100+episodes of Newhart, 120+ episodes of Melrose Place on his list and more.

P.S.Any business manager refusing to make windfall profits with no marginal work needed just because he is making "only" 25% margin is an idiot in my opinion. This is what fringe revenue in the digital world is all about.  You make a small profit but millions of times at less to no marginal production cost.Universal just doesn´t get it. They only think in movie dimensions but are not even able to protect their movie vault that has been torched several times. 

Edited June 5, 2021 by Tom

[Marcos]

@Dadrian Thank you!

I think he didn't played it but he produced it. I don't even know in fact who played it. Everything is always a mistery. Here you can see on the minute 2:11 what I'm talking about.

This video has one of the bests guitar riff I have heard. Unfortunately the songs are very short and that's all we have.

 

 

Edited June 7, 2021 by Marcos
Missing the link

[Marcos]

If someone would be able to contact him. I would really appreciate to understand what's going on. About MV there is an explanation: "the fire" and so on but how about MP(Melrose Place)? 

[Dadrian]

1 hour ago, Marcos said:

If someone would be able to contact him. I would really appreciate to understand what's going on. About MV there is an explanation: "the fire" and so on but how about MP(Melrose Place)? 

He is active (and responds) on Facebook. Nice guy. 

[sdiegolo78]

3 hours ago, Marcos said:

If someone would be able to contact him. I would really appreciate to understand what's going on. About MV there is an explanation: "the fire" and so on but how about MP(Melrose Place)? 

I take it we'll never have a MV Tim Truman official OST...too bad :-(

[Tom]

vor 3 Stunden schrieb Marcos:

If someone would be able to contact him. I would really appreciate to understand what's going on. About MV there is an explanation: "the fire" and so on but how about MP(Melrose Place)? 

Just read the 2020 interview with Tim (I posted the link above replying to your previous post). You´ll not get much more substantial info than that as he explains the whole situation perfectly. 

[Ferrariman]

I just read the excellent John Petersen interview.   I had always wondered why he didn't continue with season 5 because I thought he "mimicked" (for lack of a better word)  Jan's style very well.   

I was also surprised to hear Patrick O'Hearn was considered to score the show.  I've been listening to him for years and as much as I love his music, I don't think it would've fit the show.  He has more of a new age sound better suited to big screen dramas.

No disrespect to Tim Truman's talent but after 4 (3and a half?) seasons of Jan Hammer, it totally changed the feel of the show. It has always been said that Jan's music scores were like a character on the show, and one of my favorite characters (Jan)  had just left. 

[Glades]

4 hours ago, Ferrariman said:

I just read the excellent John Petersen interview.   I had always wondered why he didn't continue with season 5 because I thought he "mimicked" (for lack of a better word)  Jan's style very well. 

I once saw an interview with Tim Trueman. He told about his Miami Vice time and said that Michael Mann explicite intended him to make the music what he felt was right, but definitly not to sound like Jan Hammer.
That´s something a heard sometimes about Michael Mann. That he always wanted the people working with him take chances. For Mann it was o.k. when they failed, but it wasn´t o.k. at all, when they never tried.

So maybe that John Petersen "mimicked" Jan Hammer very well was exactly the reason why Mann didn´t want to have him for S5 (if he didn´t want to have him for S5, i don´t know anything about this). And that´s just the opposite you feel about this issue.

[Ferrariman]

In the above interview John Petersen said he didn't want to do another season so..... 

[Glades]

On 6/8/2021 at 9:15 PM, Ferrariman said:

In the above interview John Petersen said he didn't want to do another season so..... 

Yes. What I actually wanted to say. In S4, Jan Hammer was still on MV, although he actually wanted to get out, and John Peterson was supposed to support him. That's why Peterson mimicked Jan Hammer.
But after Jan Hammer quit and someone else took over, surely this person should do his own thing. According to the thinking of Michael Mann. My guess is that would have even been the case if John Peterson had wanted to continue.
In short, when Jan Hammer left Miami Vice, the "Jan Hammer" style on Miami Vice was permanently over. No matter who would have continued.
My guess, maybe I´m wrong.

[RedDragon86]

I think Tim's scores were part of an embodiment of saving the shows integrity after S4.

His music is so full of heart.

Edited July 20, 2021 by RedDragon86

[Dadrian]

16 minutes ago, RedDragon86 said:

I think Tim's scores were part of an embodiment of saving the shows integrity after S4.

His music is so full of heart.

Major props to Michael Thompson, too. Imagine all those cues with no guitar! 

[RedDragon86]

2 minutes ago, Dadrian said:

Major props to Michael Thompson, too. Imagine all those cues with no guitar! 

He is a key component for sure

Edited July 20, 2021 by RedDragon86

[Tom]

I think what´s left of the whole Tim Truman topic is that Universal, despite all new possibilities of new digital distribution models, is still (and further will be) ignoring lots of fans and the creator for no reason. The creator has hundreds of DAT masters in perfect quality, ready to release. Millions of clicks no YouTube prove there is a market. Universal stays stubborn and sits on its rights unused until everyone involved has died. VICE ended 30+years ago. They have repeatedly lost irreplacable master tapes of music and films/series including MV in lot fires, misplaced master tapes, but are not doing anything to "save" their vault -or what´s left of it, if there is anything left at all? - by digitally distributing it to the interested public, because 25+% margin on windfall opportunities is not good enough. They rather produce movies where they pay 30% of production cost to 1-2 stars and make 15% net max on total box office revenue. 

I would easily pay for each and every Truman cue on a portal for download. But I made my piece with the situation in a way that Universal will not learn. We have plenty of (well sanitized on background dialogue) Truman cues on the internet to listen to. I am just very sorry for Tim who put huge efforts in this, together with Michael Thompson, and has to watch his stuff rotting on a shelf without being able to make a dime on it. In Tim´s case, re-recording to circumvent the right´s issue would not work like with Jan Hammer. Thompson´s guitar cues are great, but were all played in improvised mode. No way to re-create that to come close to the original vibe, as opposed to Hammer who used instrument samples that are (pre-)recorded and can be slightly changed easily, just to neutralize Universal´s rights on the original score.

[RedDragon86]

Jan Hammer is the greatest ever composer in my opinion, better than Vangelis or John Williams but his disinterest in season 4 was a big let down for the show.

Tim Truman coming in and being hungry and full of effort was refreshing.