Ferrariman

Episode #110 "Too Much, Too Late"

Recommended Posts

Ferrariman

Begin posting

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
timm525

8 for me.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
vicenarc

I feel the this episode should have perhaps have remained the 'lost episode', lol. I can only cast a 2 for this story. It really depicted the erosion of Rico and Valerie's relationship, and her good standing in his eyes.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Leigh Burne

One of my favourites from the last season. It's good to see Valerie back, the plot's pretty mature, and I love how everyone's kind of had enough of it all. Great song by Tim Truman too.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Spyder

Season 5 worked best when characters from early in the show's history re-appeared -- Sonny's ex-wife Caroline, Al Lombard, Castillo's wife May Ying, and Valerie. The last season so often felt like a different show to me, so those recurring characters grounded MV to its original concept, IMO. It's easy to see why "Too Much, Too Late" was controversial for its time. I give this one a 9 because it's really the de facto sequel to "Rites of Passage," even more than "Prodigal Son." It also plays less rushed than "Freefall." This one has closure, for Tubbs, at least.I also love the Mink DeVille song they picked for this episode -- very reminiscent of Season 1. Kind of reminds me of Waiting on a Friend by the Rolling Stones. I'd have given it a 10, actually, but can't because it's just calling out for JH's Tubbs and Valerie theme, which is sorely absent in their scenes together. The same goes for the episodes where Sonny is in therapy, which needed hints of Crockett's Theme, too. In this instance, Tim Truman's tracks just don't cut it for me here.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Matt5

Not a great episode :D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
ViceFanMan
I feel the this episode should have perhaps have remained the 'lost episode'' date=' lol. I can only cast a 2 for this story. It really depicted the erosion of Rico and Valerie's relationship, and her good standing in his eyes.[/quote']Loved this review...cracked me up! :) I agree...this episode should possibly have stayed the "lost" one. :p The plot was too weird and I could never stand Valerie! She was whacked-out, manipulative, and nothing but poison for Rico! :evil: She was a "emotional user" and only wanted Tubbs when it was emotionally convenient or for a one-night-stand while she was in Miami. However, I can't believe that NBC "yanked" this one because of material considered supposedly too "dark" for the time....yet they allowed the earlier episode "Junk Love" to stay?? :eek: Both episodes were pretty gross with their storylines for the time, but to me "Junk" was worse in that area than this one. I do think that "Junk" was a much better put together/carried out episode than "Too Much" though.But, this episode just became a bizarre soap-opera style drama between Rico and Valerie, and on the flip-side Switek's ridiculous soap opera with gambling. I'm sorry but I don't care about any of that!! :rolleyes: Barf!! :sick:I did like the pastels and colors used, however, and we got to see lots of Tubbs' Caddy! :clap:But, other than those couple aspects "Too Much" was definitely "too" annoying! :evil: The only remotely interesting thing about this episode is the fact that it was the only one that was never originally aired by the network (NBC). Other than that...it's pretty stupid and ridiculous! :thumbsdown: I gave it a 3.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Matt5

Not a fan of this one either - good locations but poor story :thumbsup::done::cool::D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Leigh Burne

I actually thought this was one of the best episodes of the final season. Loved how dark it was, and it made some nice references to past events, like Caitlin. I like the Switek subplot. Plus it helps explain why Tubbs quits in the finale, because without this episode it seems like he makes the decision on the spot, like he's just following Crockett. At least with the events of "Too Much" it helps explain why he's given up on the job.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Matt5
I actually thought this was one of the best episodes of the final season. Loved how dark it was' date=' and it made some nice references to past events, like Caitlin. I like the Switek subplot. Plus it helps explain why Tubbs quits in the finale, because without this episode it seems like he makes the decision on the spot, like he's just following Crockett. At least with the events of "Too Much" it helps explain why he's given up on the job.[/quote']Yes good point - it would explain why Tubbs was so burnt out in the finale . Crockett was so burnt out in this episode like he doesnt care anymore - I enjoyed that aspect .:thumbsup::cool::D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
ViceFanMan
Not a fan of this one either - good locations but poor story :thumbsup::done::cool::D
Yeah...not one of my favorites. It was too depressing and weird...and Valerie was as usual annoying and toxic. :evil:
Loved this review...cracked me up! :) I agree...this episode should possibly have stayed the "lost" one. :p The plot was too weird and I could never stand Valerie! She was whacked-out' date=' manipulative' date=' and nothing but poison for Rico! :evil: She was a "emotional user" and only wanted Tubbs when it was emotionally convenient or for a one-night-stand while she was in Miami. However, I can't believe that NBC "yanked" this one because of material considered supposedly too "dark" for the time....yet they allowed the earlier episode "Junk Love" to stay?? :eek: Both episodes were pretty gross with their storylines for the time, but to me "Junk" was worse in that area than this one. I do think that "Junk" was a much better put together/carried out episode than "Too Much" though.But, this episode just became a bizarre soap-opera style drama between Rico and Valerie, and on the flip-side Switek's ridiculous soap opera with gambling. I'm sorry but I don't care about any of that!! :rolleyes: Barf!! :sick:I did like the pastels and colors used, however, and we got to see lots of Tubbs' Caddy! :clap:But, other than those couple aspects "Too Much" was definitely "too" annoying! :evil: The only remotely interesting thing about this episode is the fact that it was the only one that was never originally aired by the network (NBC). Other than that...it's pretty stupid and ridiculous! :thumbsdown: I gave it a 3.[/quote'']

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
MrsEvanFreed

Valerie returns, for a MV Afterschool Special episode. 

 

 

Yeah this one was pretty bad, plus I hate  Rico's below the belt comment to Sonny about Catlin.

 

 

Not CCH Pounder's finest moment as an actress either.

 

 

4/10

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Matt5

Struggled with this one quite dark 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Spyder

Valerie returns, for a MV Afterschool Special episode. 

 

 

Yeah this one was pretty bad, plus I hate  Rico's below the belt comment to Sonny about Catlin.

 

 

Not CCH Pounder's finest moment as an actress either.

 

 

4/10

 

The writing left a lot to be desired at this point in the series. With almost all of the original production crew from Seasons 1-2 replaced, the show looked cheap, the cinematography was bland, and our favorite characters said and did things that only a person unacquainted with the show would have them say and do. A staff of fans would have done a better job writing dialogue suited for Crockett and Tubbs.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Vice Immersion

...So the "lost episode" that was never aired on network television for the time.  Considering the censorship for the time, it makes sense why topics of child rape/molestation, a child murdering one's mother, and a child being ready to kill again (with Swain) made this episode unsuitable for viewing.  With the direction of how dark this series kept on progressing, it seemed as if the show was testing how far it could push the censorship attitudes of the time.  ...It's quite a stark difference if you compare a Season 1 episode to "Too Much, Too Late" when you hear a tweenage girl point a gun at her attacker, and confess how angry she was in killing her own mother.

 

Although "Too Much, Too Late" did give some closure on the Valerie love interest for Tubbs, it wasn't a completely satisfying one.  I reviewed the episodes "Rites of Passage" and "The Prodigal Son" just to review the relationship between them, but there's never a solid explanation as to why they broke up in the first place in "Rites of Passage" besides ending on "bad terms".  For me, I never fully accepted Valerie Gordon as being Tubbs' ultimate long lost love, or that they should be together (as much as the series may want to convey to the audience) because it mostly seemed one-sided (unrequited love), where Tubbs had a lot more affection for her, and she seemed to make him as a "shoulder to cry on" for emotional convenience.  In the three episodes Valerie appears in, Tubbs seems to constantly overextend himself in doing favors for her, but she never displays the same amount of sacrifice and devotion in doing the same thing for him.  If there were incidents where she did the same for Tubbs, it would have given a LOT more emotional weight to them parting ways and how things were too late since she had led him on in wanting to frame Swain.  (I can't think of a time she actually did something substantial for Tubbs.)  ...Then again, maybe at the ending scene, it's an eye-opening moment for Tubbs as to just how far Valerie was willing to use him, and then makes him to be just as soured as Sonny is, when it comes to the events of "Freefall".   **shrug**  I don't know... Tubbs and Valerie's relationship wasn't as solid or as meaningful as the series tried to portray it to be, and it's confusing as to what explicit reasons either one of them wanted to permanently end their on-and-off relationship.

 

As for the Switek subplot, it's good that they followed up on his gambling addiction and again will give some explanation as to how things develop in "Freefall".  I enjoyed the subtle touches about him reflecting about Zito with the snow globes, and how that innocence and fragility is broken when one of the mobsters plays around with the same snow globe, to show how far he has descended from the Switek, his former partner, Zito used to know.

 

One particular thing that seemed very bizarre was that Gina, Trudy, and Castillo were nowhere throughout the episode.  Not even a line or two for them in the episode.  Oh well...

 

Overall it was pretty good and I enjoyed the episode, but the end of the Tubbs-Valerie relationship didn't have the impact I was looking for.  The ending scene was done well with Tubbs' head hanging down in despair, but the romantic relationship in general, just wasn't handled well to fully convince the audience that Valerie was "the one who got away", unlike with Crockett and Caroline, which did a great job in portraying that.

 

Season 5 worked best when characters from early in the show's history re-appeared -- Sonny's ex-wife Caroline, Al Lombard, Castillo's wife May Ying, and Valerie. The last season so often felt like a different show to me, so those recurring characters grounded MV to its original concept, IMO. It's easy to see why "Too Much, Too Late" was controversial for its time. I give this one a 9 because it's really the de facto sequel to "Rites of Passage," even more than "Prodigal Son." It also plays less rushed than "Freefall." This one has closure, for Tubbs, at least.I also love the Mink DeVille song they picked for this episode -- very reminiscent of Season 1. Kind of reminds me of Waiting on a Friend by the Rolling Stones. I'd have given it a 10, actually, but can't because it's just calling out for JH's Tubbs and Valerie theme, which is sorely absent in their scenes together. The same goes for the episodes where Sonny is in therapy, which needed hints of Crockett's Theme, too. In this instance, Tim Truman's tracks just don't cut it for me here.

With Season 5 being such a different shift from where the show started, it would have been nice to have those theme songs too to give a reminiscing emotional quality to the scenes.

 

 

I actually thought this was one of the best episodes of the final season. Loved how dark it was, and it made some nice references to past events, like Caitlin. I like the Switek subplot. Plus it helps explain why Tubbs quits in the finale, because without this episode it seems like he makes the decision on the spot, like he's just following Crockett. At least with the events of "Too Much" it helps explain why he's given up on the job.

The Switek subplot and this episode with Tubbs, explains a lot more for the emotional weight and decisions that would follow in the series finale "Freefall".

 

Valerie returns, for a MV Afterschool Special episode. 

 

 

Yeah this one was pretty bad, plus I hate  Rico's below the belt comment to Sonny about Catlin.

 

 

Not CCH Pounder's finest moment as an actress either.

 

 

4/10

For me, I thought it was a natural reaction for Tubbs since so many of his other romantic interests were leaving him or getting killed, and how he was finding it more and more difficult to not fall for the women that were a part of his case (i.e. the widow in "To Have and To Hold"), and probably desperately hoping things could work with Valerie, but then again, he had this problem since the beginning back with Calderone's daughter back in Season 1 in "Calderone's Return (Part 2)".  I think his below the belt comment to Sonny about Caitlin, reflects more of just how burnt out Tubbs is himself, without actually admitting it to Sonny and not wanting to consciously accept how cynical he has become as well.

Edited by Vice Immersion

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
vicegirl85

Yeah this one was pretty bad, plus I hate  Rico's below the belt comment to Sonny about Catlin.

 

 

Yes, I thought that was a very pod comment by Rico and I couldn't believe he even said it.  He was normally a lot more perceptive.  But Vice Immersion's comment is well-taken:

 I think his below the belt comment to Sonny about Caitlin, reflects more of just how burnt out Tubbs is himself, without actually admitting it to Sonny and not wanting to consciously accept how cynical he has become as well.

 

You're probably right, Tubbs didn't want to admit or accept his own burn-out state. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
OCBman

Just re-watched this episode yesterday. Good stuff.

Loved Izzy in this episode. Very brief appearances (in only two short scenes), but he was fantastic...as usual. 

Other notes:

Switek taking the tow truck while his Thunderbird was attached was pretty funny. His gambling issue is playing out nicely before his serious dive into the depths during the series finale. By the way, whatever happened to Holly, his girlfriend?

Valerie (Pam Grier) informing Rico that she will quit her police job when she gets back to New York is nice fore-shadowing for the series finale.

Very touchy subjects with Swain all around (mother pimping out daughter & child molestation).  

 

Edited by OCBman

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Remington

Ok I love the opening and ending. Mainly for the music and atmosphere.

The rest of it is either boring, stupid, or depressing.

I couldn't stand the actress who played Yvonne.

However it's still an important episode for Tubbs because it adds incentive for his character to quit the force.

4/10

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
ViceFanMan
2 hours ago, Remington said:

Ok I love the opening and ending. Mainly for the music and atmosphere.

The rest of it is either boring, stupid, or depressing.

I couldn't stand the actress who played Yvonne.

However it's still an important episode for Tubbs because it adds incentive for his character to quit the force.

4/10

I never really liked this episode much either...and I could never understand why this was so "dark" or inappropriate that NBC refused to air it...yet they aired episodes like Junk Love?? ?(  This episode could have been left out period. Aired for the 1st time in 1990, the year after the show went off the air, on USA as they were the 1st network to air MV reruns I believe. IMDB I think even says the show went to 1990 because of this...but that is wrong or inaccurate. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now