Episode #105 "Over The Line"

[ViceFanMan]

1 hour ago, sdiegolo78 said:

Were they sitting in Gina's car?

No, I don’t think so. Gina’s car was a white 1971 Mercury Cougar (seen in “Bought and Paid For”). She & Trudy also used an old junker silver colored 71 Mercury Cougar Convertible for undercover stings. But neither of these cars appear to be the one C&T were sitting in at the beginning of this. 

Edited March 16, 2022 by ViceFanMan

[Tom]

vor 10 Stunden schrieb sdiegolo78:

Do you think Crockett figured Highsmith shot dead Stevens cause he knew too much and could spill the beans? That's very likely, just watch the final scene when he switches off the TV set on Highsmith public speech. And I don't think Castillo liked Highsmith either...

And why would anyone send two off- duty cops in uniform to collect signatures? Though I understand their killing was functional to the plot, as to show how unlawful and criminal Stevens crew was.

Yes, Highsmith was crooked and on the take (Stevens mentioned early on that very high ranking people are involved in the background). This was finally confirmed in Freefall by Crockett who confronted Highsmith when he found out that Highsmith was on Montoya´s cartel payroll and had lots of expensive cars and horses that did not match up with his 80 grand a year public salary.

And as to the off duty cops scene: IMHO they just wanted to show that Stevens was even so unscrupulous to watch how other cops in uniform get killed. These cops collected signatures for Highsmith on their own will-they were convinced to do a good thing for a alleged tough pro-cop politician, not knowing about his real intention. This was apparently another idea by the writers to show the absurdity of the situation that cops got killed when they collected signatures for the corrupt Highsmith. 

It was discussed here on the forum already by some US fans with better knowledge of US law that the cops collecting signatures for Highsmith scene was badly researched by writers as this was and still is illegal (cops in uniform may not perform such promotion activities)

[ViceFanMan]

On 8/31/2021 at 4:28 PM, ViceFanMan said:

This seemed to sort of be MV's version of Magnum Force...with the cops gone vigilante. I liked the more serious and/or "darker" aspects and how Crockett & Tubbs play out their undercover roles.

But, I really liked the beginning...with the ice cream truck and the driver letting the drug dealers know Crockett and Tubbs were there to bust them, by announcing it over the truck's speakers!  Any idea what car Crockett and Tubbs were sitting in at the very beginning scene? It did not appear to be Tubbs' Caddy or Crockett's Testarossa...but I think a dark colored convertible of some kind?

I liked the plot and how it was carried out...and even though you understood why the "bad" cops were doing what they were...you also saw how wrong and devastating it was. The acting was also  pretty awesome and in-depth!

Cool song used too, I'm Life by The Fixx! I really liked the pastel colors used again, and especially the abandoned pool where Izzy was trying to sell scam-like tanning gels to the old ladies!  The colors of the "empty" pool and old diving board were awesome and totally MV! The action was good too.

Overall this is another pretty good one from Season 5...I originally gave it an 8, but that might have been a little high. I’d probably give it a 7-7.5. 

Watching this one again tonight. Above was my latest review from last year. But, one thing I always love & enjoy about rewatching the show is that once in a while I’ll notice some little detail that I hadn’t previously.

For this episode, I happened to notice tonight that in one scene Crockett’s pink shirt underneath his white sport jacket seems a little “distressed”, frayed, or worn out. I’d not really noticed this before...was this on purpose & a style thing back then? Just curious & found it interesting (picture &  goofy caption below): 

“Hope they don’t notice that Elvis has been gnawing on my clothes again!”  

[Augusta]

I am surprised how often and how deeply the "likability" of the episode is decided for me by the director.  This person Russ is the same who directed Freefall, and neither episode felt like it had enough motivation in it to be anything but a 'standard' cop/detective show episode (like Law and Order, the Starsky & Hutch episode I remember,  or ViceFansMan's Magnum Force suggestion).  I got grumpy seeing that same storyline imitated by many of the buddy-cop series.  Eastwood's rogue police squad story was told in a beautifully callous style by that director, and no tv series made the right decision by trying to formulate that story. Magnum Force stands alone.

Haha, ViceFanMan... we'll have to check Don's BOTTOMS.  If his jeans are just faded but not threaded, then the holes in his shirt may indeed be the result of an incident they just failed to address before the shoot.  
If his jeans are distressed, THEN it was probably deliberate costume for the role (...you know,..."desperate deep cover Al Pacino against the system" look).  

[RedDragon86]

9 hours ago, ViceFanMan said:

Watching this one again tonight. Above was my latest review from last year. But, one thing I always love & enjoy about rewatching the show is that once in a while I’ll notice some little detail that I hadn’t previously.

For this episode, I happened to notice tonight that in one scene Crockett’s pink shirt underneath his white sport jacket seems a little “distressed”, frayed, or worn out. I’d not really noticed this before...was this on purpose & a style thing back then? Just curious & found it interesting (picture &  goofy caption below): 

“Hope they don’t notice that Elvis has been gnawing on my clothes again!”  

In season 5 I have noticed numerous t-shirts with holes in them, I don't know why but imo the clothes department had poor attention to detail. I mean why give Don an expensive sports jacket to wear over a poor man's t shirt?

It don't think it was style thing or it representing him being worn out because in this scene in "Jack of All Trades" for example he is dressed very slick and at is best there.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[ViceFanMan]

3 minutes ago, RedDragon86 said:

In season 5 I have noticed numerous t-shirts with holes in them, I don't know why but imo the clothes department had poor attention to detail. I mean why give Don an expensive sports jacket to wear over a poor man's t shirt?

It don't think it was style thing or it representing him being worn out because in this scene in "Jack of All Trades" for example he is dressed very slick and at is best there.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yeah, after I posted last night, I started noticing some other shirts with some holes or small rips in them...so I actually think it was a style they were going for. Other shirts & jeans at that time were purposely ripped (that style has come back some)...I just hadn’t remembered Crockett wearing a holy shirt underneath his expensive jacket.  But, I guess he did. 

[RedDragon86]

13 minutes ago, ViceFanMan said:

Yeah, after I posted last night, I started noticing some other shirts with some holes or small rips in them...so I actually think it was a style they were going for. Other shirts & jeans at that time were purposely ripped (that style has come back some)...I just hadn’t remembered Crockett wearing a holy shirt underneath his expensive jacket.  But, I guess he did. 

That sky blue one you posted look's expensive.

I can understand the jeans being ripped but not the t-shirts. Sonny is suppose to look flash to convince the drug lords that he is a player, it wouldn't be realistic to dress like Wayne or Garth from "Wayne World" 

Edited June 27, 2022 by RedDragon86

[ViceFanMan]

1 hour ago, Augusta said:

I am surprised how often and how deeply the "likability" of the episode is decided for me by the director.  This person Russ is the same who directed Freefall, and neither episode felt like it had enough motivation in it to be anything but a 'standard' cop/detective show episode (like Law and Order, the Starsky & Hutch episode I remember,  or ViceFansMan's Magnum Force suggestion).  I got grumpy seeing that same storyline imitated by many of the buddy-cop series.  Eastwood's rogue police squad story was told in a beautifully callous style by that director, and no tv series made the right decision by trying to formulate that story. Magnum Force stands alone.

Haha, ViceFanMan... we'll have to check Don's BOTTOMS.  If his jeans are just faded but not threaded, then the holes in his shirt may indeed be the result of an incident they just failed to address before the shoot.  
If his jeans are distressed, THEN it was probably deliberate costume for the role (...you know,..."desperate deep cover Al Pacino against the system" look).  

Looking at some other shirts in other episodes of that time, I actually think it probably was a distressed style they were going for.

As for the plots of the episodes...the director can many times dictate how well an episode comes across, but there are lots of factors that will either have me liking it or not. Lots of times in the past TV shows would do an episode based off a plot of a famous or popular movie. They wouldn’t literally copy the film, but they’d do their own episode, based off the same plot.

The “vigilante cops” plot has been done before by different shows, so I don’t know if this is literally MV’s version of the Dirty Harry movie Magnum Force...but the same idea comes across to me. 

MV also has their version of Psycho, with Season 4’s “Love At First Sight”. Other shows have done what I call the ‘Laura’ episode...based off the classic 1944 film noir Laura. Both “Magnum, p.i.” & “Silk Stalkings” are two shows that have done a ‘Laura’ one. 

By no means do these episodes of TV shows equal or surpass the original films...all those movies (especially Hitchcock’s Psycho) stand alone! But, it’s sometimes interesting to see an episode of a favorite TV show do their own version...to see what they do with the plot idea. 

[ViceFanMan]

21 minutes ago, RedDragon86 said:

That sky blue one you posted look's expensive.

I can understand the jeans being ripped but not the t-shirts. Sonny is suppose to look flash to convince the drug lords that he is a player, it wouldn't be realistic to dress like Wayne or Garth from "Wayne World" 

The one I posted was pink, but if it was a style, the shirt could still be “designer” but purposely distressed. But, it is interesting that a supposed drug dealer would wear that. Who knows...interesting behind the scenes trivia we’ll probably not really know why, lol!   

[RedDragon86]

10 hours ago, ViceFanMan said:

The one I posted was pink, but if it was a style, the shirt could still be “designer” but purposely distressed. But, it is interesting that a supposed drug dealer would wear that. Who knows...interesting behind the scenes trivia we’ll probably not really know why, lol!   

I just meant in reference to the sky blue sports jacket.

 

Edited June 28, 2022 by RedDragon86

[ViceFanMan]

37 minutes ago, RedDragon86 said:

In reference to the sky blue sports jacket.

I just think that consistency plays a big part.

No need for the tongue emoji, we are all adults here with respect for each other.

The tongue emoji was more in humorous reference for some of the goofy inconsistencies or unexplainable things with MV...not towards you or any person specifically.  

The picture I posted had Crockett with a white jacket & pink shirt...but, he did wear a teal jacket in many episodes. 

MV struggled some with consistency...character & backstory wise. A lot of that though, I think sadly had to do with the change in writers & producers for Season 3 on.

But, as for the clothes, I think the frayed/distressed shirts were a style they were trying to go with at the time...mixing them in with expensive clothes for a certain look. 

[RedDragon86]

10 hours ago, ViceFanMan said:

The tongue emoji was more in humorous reference for some of the goofy inconsistencies or unexplainable things with MV...not towards you or any person specifically.  

The picture I posted had Crockett with a white jacket & pink shirt...but, he did wear a teal jacket in many episodes. 

MV struggled some with consistency...character & backstory wise. A lot of that though, I think sadly had to do with the change in writers & producers for Season 3 on.

But, as for the clothes, I think the frayed/distressed shirts were a style they were trying to go with at the time...mixing them in with expensive clothes for a certain look. 

No worries friend, sorry.

I am seasons 1&2 fan  at heart and season 3 is also excellent but after that I don't know what to make of it. 

Seem's to lose it's focus.

Edited June 28, 2022 by RedDragon86

[ViceFanMan]

1 minute ago, RedDragon86 said:

No worries friend, sorry.

I am seasons 1&2 fan  at heart and season 3 is also excellent but after that I don't know what to make of it after that.

I’m pretty much the same...diehard 1&2, still love 3, but 4&5 definitely lost their “way”. There’s a few good episodes in 4&5 that I still like to watch...but as a whole both seasons were pretty bizarre & had some really poor plots.

I’m just now at the end of going through my Blu-ray set...(I’ve always had my original airings & the DVDs before), and I’m laughing at their attempt at trying to advertise that their set also includes the “lost episodes”, lol!

First, all the reruns over the years, plus the original Universal DVDs, included all episodes. Second, there was only 1 true lost episode (“Too Much Too Late”). The others did air, just after “Freefall”...so lots of fans didn’t realize that.

But I can’t stand “Miracle Man” & I don’t really care for  “Leap of Faith” either. However, “World of Trouble” was superb...and should have been used as the finale instead! 

[Tom]

There are three important scenes that were filmed, but cut from the final product. One we already knew from 1989 news footage (the rollerblade girl in front of the Collins Park hotel filmed on 10 Feb, see link and pics below)

but there are two others that are worth mentioning as very disturbing. Read along.

Day 3 - 8 February - at the DeGarmo Estate - Scenes 163 and 164 were filmed according to daily production report, but cut. Highsmith barks at Castillo after he shot Hawkins that the VICE unit is doing a bad job. Also Crockett´s question to Highsmith how he knew where to find Hawkins was cut. As this ep was shot with the final episode in mind, they obviously wanted to keep some stuff for Freefall.

 

D

Day 5 - 10 February - the famous Surf Hotel scene with Rollerblade girl (scene 65-72 was cut in LA) and where they enter the vigilante limo, then in China Club (club scene). On TV they made a voiceover where Crockett says he got a message to be there where they enter the limo to circumvent the missing information from the dumped rollerblade girl scene.

Day 7: 14 February - studio.  Scene 54-59 were filmed, but cut later. Incredible stuff: Crockett attacks Castillo on the budget cuts, for brownnosing Highsmith. Castillo fights back and says Crockett screwed up an easy bust and did a bad job, the OCB team watches in disbelief, one of the crooked cops watches this and concludes Crockett is ripe for an approach (maybe this was supposed to be a covert luring play by Castillo and DJ like in "Red Tape"?). Castillo gives Crockett the order to stake Hawkins out at the Surf Hotel (scenes later also filmed, but cut). The Castillo blow up is out of character. Crockett could not be blamed for Dr. Dinky showing up and spoiling the bust. And humiliating Crockett with his track record in front of all others has never been Castillo´s MO. 

In my opinion these scenes should not have been cut. They were intended by the writer and there for a reason. The Castillo blow up seems a bit out of character for Castillo, but I guess this was indeed a false flag operation by Crockett and Castillo, similar to Red Tape where Tubbs and Castillo played a game as well to lure the unknown traitor and even went to full length to deceive even all other OCB team members in order to keep the secret.

 

Edited October 15, 2023 by Tom

[pahonu]

I can picture EJO delivering these lines in a very low key but intensely serious way.  Crockett would be loud and waving the memo around but Castillo would just stare and respond slowly, not getting emotional.  I don’t think it would seem so out of character in that way.  What he’s saying would stun everyone around, but not his actions.  Now I wish we could see how it was done!