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Kavinsky

A Guide to the V8 replica's

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Kavinsky    228
Kavinsky

As a way to help people out there find what they want and understand the replica's I decided to start this guide, and I will go more indepth into the base car at the end of it and what to look out for which will apply to corvette C3's in general

 

Introduction:

 

first off the base car is a third generation Corvette, some latter were made using the fourth generation model.

 

and the base car can vary anywere from a 1968 model all the way until a 1982, and its worth noting that the difference in base HP and Torque from 1968 - 1971 is somewhat artifical so going for an earlier car to get more HP out of it is not necessarily recommended.

 

as restomodding can easily restore most of the HP that was lost to the Jimmy Carter era of 85 MPH speedo's and the artifically created Opec Oil Crysis era of 1973

 

so as a general rule of thub, take away 30 to 50 hp for cars made before 1972 for the actual net HP of the car

 

including english cars such as the Jaguar Mark 2, otherwise why would sir Ian Mccalum take a vintage Jag Mark 2 and discard the engine in favor of a 4.3 liter to get 275 hp, only 50 above the proported HP rating of the 3.8 model recently?

 

 

which is something that could easily be done with a Cam Change and a few bigger and modern Carbs?

 

and also the emmisions and the addition of the catalitic converter takes away roughly another 50 HP, so at its lowest point the Corvette made 175 HP in 1976, although revisions and modifications to the exhaust performed in 1978 and onwards generally brought the HP back to about 200 - 210

 

and 1978 and 1979 were the best selling years for the C3 Corvette

 

although the L82, the earlier ones generally produced about 250 HP

 

but restomodding can easily produce more power out of the existing engines and such, and in extremes dropping in a C4 engine in it , such as this example, a Mcburnie:

 

http://corvette.canney.net/webvettes/customized/c0050/index.html

 

with a ZL1 engine out of a latter C4 made in 1992 can put out 300 HP or more easily, as engines from the 1970's relied on slide rulers and primatve caculators, that could only caculate things to a 10th of an inch rather than a 100th of an inch

 

 

and if you live in a state that isnt california, you can easily take most of the emmisions stuff off of them to get some of the power back as these cars are generally now a minimal of 25 years old, and thus exempt from smog laws.

 

for all of the good and bad of that fact, as that means the age, wear and tear and the climate the car lived in given its ladder chasis of the C3 have to be taken into account as well, just like any 1960's and early 1970's muscle car.

 

so always have the chasis looked over for rust, crash damage, and to check the state of the weilds on any C3 corvette

 

and markadian and Mcburnie found out the hardway why you shouldnt buy the first car you find. 

Edited by Kavinsky

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Kavinsky    228
Kavinsky

Now the Mcburnies, the  differentiating way to tell these apart from the rest is the flares, namely the front's

 

as there more or less full on race like flares like on the Paul Newman Ferrari 365 GTB/4 race car that extend all around the nose of the car

 

gallery_471_5_112289.jpg

 

although they stick out more horizontally at the top of the flares and are far more subdued around the bottom of the nose, given that Corvettes of that time period breath from underneath the car generally

 

and also the cars have a unique angled grill, ala the latter ferrari 365 BB and Ferrari 308

 

1024px-Ferrari_Berlinetta_Boxer-terabass

 

1024px-Ferrari512BB1976.jpg

 

of which the car cover of this actual car also fits the replicas weirdly, and it was also used in the famous Miami Vice Pepsi ad of 1985 that Don did for them.

 

 

 

probably in place of the Daytona no less after ferrari got abit peaved at them in mid S2 and the wheels started turning for the TR to replace the daytona.

 

(as an aside also theres a lovely miura in a rare french like blue next to this white ferrari on the left, like the original color this miura is going to be restored in: http://www.lambomiura.com/ )

 

although its made out of alumiunmn and thus can be high Maintenance given how easily it oxides and looses its shine, and the aluminium bumpers need to be removed to service it a hence why the second car is retrofitted with a more authentic and easier to maintain Rowley flat Grill that can just be pulled out and cleaned without taking the bumpers off.

 

however at vice's time there was no chrome paint, so that's just really a quirk of the time period the car was made in that the grill could dull easily, and chances are if it hadnt been for Ferrari stepping in in season 3, that would have been changed over on the vice cars.

 

 

 

and these were the first replicas made, originally in partnership with Markadian, (Markedian) and Mcburnie and Mark Chinetti on the interior as Coachbuilt cars, not kit cars as its often proported to be. so the miami vice cars were full on coachbuilt cars, as a run of 4 or 5 cars with unique features to them that were not translated to the latter cars that were made made by Mcburine when it comes to the interior and possibly the mechanicals as well.

 

 

and markadian for those not in the know is supposedly who the Tom Cruse character in rain man was based on,

 

 

 

and was a grey market ferrari dealer who sought to make his own car, using mostly new corvette's for the most part, atleast from car 2 to 4

 

under the name Markadian 350 GTS

 

gallery_471_5_155284.jpg

 

 

car 5's base car is up in the air along with what happened to it, supposedly it was kept as a I'll keep one for myself kinda deal for markadian's brother in law.

 

 

and car 4 came complete with a Gail banks turbo from a previous owner, who had bought it fully spec'd out from GM, his name was Dale Garber, then national sales manager at Mikuni Carburetors who then sold the car to markadian in september of 1982, complete with the Gail banks turbo still on it.

 

as turbos were and still are the best way to get around the emmisions stuff nowadays like Volkswaggen and the germans are doing

 

and the man is still around and doing his thing too as he just helped rebuild the rotson here

 

 

also of note turbocharging was big in the world stage back then with Group B rally racing as it made a name for Audi and the UR quattro of ashes to ashes fame

 

alowing them to start off on their current state of greatness with their sport saloon's and Audi R8's

 

 

and other such mods as electric cooling fans, instead of the type that ran off of the Clutch plate, hence why if an old car isnt moving it tends to overheat in LA traffic.

 

other mods are unknown, possibly maybe retrofitted rack and pinion steering, or latter brakes, but Car 4, the vice car is a 1981 and was using the more advanced C3 latter suspension of composite springs in 1978 to 1982 cars.

 

 

and these latter mcburnies could either be coach built at mcburnies shop, which took upwards of 6 months to complete, or sold and completed as a kit, but the complex nature of it ment that while possible its unlikely that it is a kit built car.

 

so a far more appropriate term for these replicas is either coachbuilt or rebodied.

 

and vice had Markadian Car 1 that was aquired after the pilot, as much rougher prototype 1976 car that unbeknownst to markadian had been in an accident and the chasis was one inch shorter on the drivers side (hence why you always check the chasis over like this!)

 

 

and Car 4, the car that was first aquired for the show and was in the entirety of the Pilot, which was a somewhat brand new 1981 car when the converstion was done, being only a year old at the time which sadly had its seats changed after the pilot, probably as it would be a differenciating way between the two cars.

 

and both cars featured an entirely custom interior that was never used on the production run mcburnies, possibly using mazda RX 3 parts in some vein in its interior. although their is similarities, although Car 1 is no longer with us

 

as it was scrapped and due to be replaced for season 3 with a better car, but that never happened so outside of the chasis still being around, its engine and bodyless right now. 

 

and car 4 is in private ownership.

 

and most C3 replica makers originally started off selling and making cars with Mcburnie bodies, Such as Carl Roberts and Rowley, hence the bad blood between them.

 

those and their unique pieces and features will be covered next....

 

and as a final note, this is what I was listening to while I was making this and the photos for the thread

 

Edited by Kavinsky
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Pritt    31
Pritt

Kavinsky, are you sure, that McB the front fenders always produced like that?

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Kavinsky    228
Kavinsky

Pretty much yeah, the carl roberts and Rowley's handled the fronts differently, which is the tell tale sign bodywise about what car is made by who, and I think the rear flares maybe a little revised as well

 

Eingefügtes Bild

 

where they have less of a beak like peak to them over the wheels, and are more refined and sleaker than the mcburnie flares, like their pulled in or rolled in slightly, like a fifteenth to a quarter of an inch or so, think less hot rod ish and closer to the original paul newman flares and more european looking.

 

Eingefügtes Bild

 

Eingefügtes Bild

 

(the white and black above are both mcburnies)

 

as this first black one is a members car, Jurrasic Narc's car made by carl roberts that's been modded to have the alfa door handles and the 2 x 2 square headlamps of the vice car, instead of the cicular units it came with. complete with smoked plexyglass to mimic the smoked plexyglass that was used on car 4 in the pilot and put back on for S2.

 

 

which you can see at 1:07, and that smoked plexyglass required Don to drive with the Highs on to see at night, which he started doing towards the end of S2.

 

although I think someone messed with the audio as the song doesnt quite sound right for that clip.

 

also there was a light amplifier on the vice cars, both of them to try and help that, that hasnt been put on any of the other mcburnies. which is why it seemed like in S1 there was a silver and white tint to the nose of the cars.

 

which you can see in no exit, during the phil collins song bit at the end.

 

 

there was also some unique parts and features to them with the roberts, although the unique part he made for the windshield, his windshield trim can be fitted to any other cars that are corvette C3 based, and they come in two parts, a chrome strip around them and the painted base:

 

Eingefügtes Bild

 

 

although generally, in my opinion a matt, satin or semi gloss finish is the way to go with the windshield trim,

 

Eingefügtes Bild

 

all three here are mcburnies, first with stock windshield trim painted gloss, the second is the carl roberts sans the chrome painted gloss, and the third is the carl roberts minus chrome, painted satin black

 

 

although that's not to say there isnt exceptions but I think for gloss to work you need to black out the chrome ontop as well, or in general for that matter,

 

or better yet black out the top and go for a satin like on this one with the full on corvette windshield trim

 

Eingefügtes Bild

 

 

or remove the top trim piece all together that seems to have fitting problems usually around the connecting edge and black out the chrome

 

Eingefügtes Bild

 

first car is a latter mcburnie kit, where they went to a one square headlamp look, which I think is not pretty

 

 

however generally the carl robert's cars have mazda based door handle, instead of the alfa ones like the red one above the windshield trim examples and the gas tank behind the rear seats to better balance the weight of the car.

 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gl8yCKacoz4&feature=player_embedded

 

and those door handles and door pannels in the video are exclusive to the carl roberts car.

Edited by Kavinsky

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jurassic narc    50
jurassic narc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gl8yCKacoz4&feature=player_embedded and those door handles and door pannels in the video are exclusive to the carl roberts car.

Not sure any of the interior parts were exclusive to any one manufacturer. The interiors were made up at different times by different people in the upholstery business, and later the body manufacturers started adding them to the package (both finished and unfinished). The seats are for sure not the ones Carl used. And the plexiglass looks like it came from Rowley. The seats Carl made used a headrest from a barbers chair (look at some of the examples above which are more curved backwards).One other way of spotting one of Carl's cars you haven't mentioned is the way the plexiglass is held in place. Take a close look at the video of the red car and you will see that there is a fiberglass trim piece that fits across the very most forward tip of the nose and holds the plexiglass in place. It is not as apparent on my car, with the black parts. All the rest of the cars will have screws in the plexiglass at some point, which is a common weakness and can cause the plexiglass to come apart.The video of the red car is one of the best examples I've seen of a Roberts Car. The obvious cover over the gas tank in the rear of the seats, the battery located inside the engine compartment, and (as you mentioned) the Mazda door handles. This may have been one of the earlier cars Carl built when his brother was still living. The gas pistons on the hood are a real nice touch. But you'll notice how poorly the trunk lid fits.One other detail about the McBurnie cars is the way the trunk release was done. The Mardikians, and many of the early cars, use that manual trunk release you see in the drivers door frame area. Later cars, of almost all makers, have electronic trunk releases. Edited by jurassic narc

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jurassic narc    50
jurassic narc

complete with best guess a Gail banks turbo, as turbos were and still are the best way to get around the emmisions  and Car 4, the car that was first aquired for the show and was in the entirety of the Pilot, which was a brand new 1981 car when the converstion was done,

 None of the Mardikian cars were purchased new. Car 4 was bought used, as were all the original 5 (4 for Mardikain and 1 for McBurnie's brother in law). Mardikian didn't do any significant upgrades to the cars, as far as I have been able to determine, they were used cars which had upgrades already. Car 4 did have a Gail Banks Turbo charger, but it was removed prior to it's use on Miami Vice. Edited by jurassic narc

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CameraDaytona    17
CameraDaytona

From Kavinsky - 9/9/2014 

 

"and Car 4, the car that was first aquired for the show and was in the entirety of the Pilot, which was a brand new 1981 car when the converstion was done, which sadly had its seats changed after the pilot, probably as it would be a differenciating way between the two cars.

 

and both cars featured an entirely custom interior that was never used on the production run mcburnies, although their is similarities, although Car 1 is no longer with us

 

as it was scrapped and due to be replaced for season 3 with a better car, but that never happened so outside of the chasis still being around, its engine and bodyless right now. 

 

and car 4 is in private ownership."

 

 

Kavinsky - Good overview!  But car 4 was about a year old when Mardikian bought it.  The original owner had installed the Banks Turbocharger.

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jurassic narc    50
jurassic narc

From Kavinsky - 9/9/2014 

 

"and Car 4, the car that was first aquired for the show and was in the entirety of the Pilot, which was a brand new 1981 car when the converstion was done, which sadly had its seats changed after the pilot, probably as it would be a differenciating way between the two cars.

 

and both cars featured an entirely custom interior that was never used on the production run mcburnies, although their is similarities, although Car 1 is no longer with us

 

as it was scrapped and due to be replaced for season 3 with a better car, but that never happened so outside of the chasis still being around, its engine and bodyless right now. 

 

and car 4 is in private ownership."

 

 

Kavinsky - Good overview!  But car 4 was about a year old when Mardikian bought it.  The original owner had installed the Banks Turbocharger.

In McBurnie's Constuction Manual he says

'Car no. 4, most often used for "Miami Vice" filming, originated as a tan, fully optioned, 5000 mile, 1981 Corvette purchased from Dale Garber, then national sales manager at Mikuni Carburetors.  After a parting of the ways at Mikuni, Garber opted to sell his BAE Turbocharged pride and joy to Mardikian in September 1982."

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Kavinsky    228
Kavinsky

Yeah with the interiors I just wasnt sure how to handle that, as we know about the mcburnie dashes being somewhat based on the ones used on the markadians but with how many that he probably sold and carl and Rowley starting out as sellers of his packages its kinda hard to tell who's car is who just by that

 

although we know car 4 has carl roberts door panels or a mix of the rowley and the roberts one nowadays, or one of the other, I mean it is hard to keep track

 

although I wonder if that was another reason why the plexyglass was replaced on Car 4, maybe it started coming apart and the nose was retrofitted with a rowley unit as well. opting not to smoke it for the sake of night driving, as high intesitity or led headlights probably werent avalable back then.

 

and would that fiberglass bit be like a little clip that clips on, on the front of the second car in this photo

 

Eingefügtes Bild

 

that acts like a retentioner clip, which actually your right you can see perfectly in this video at 0:15

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gl8yCKacoz4

 

although it seems to extend the nose and block the headlights a little.

 

 

with the turbo charging though, what about what I thought was car 2 here in the second photo, as it looks like it has a turbocharger on it and it looks like the dash is a prototype of the dashes used on car 3 and 4:

 

Eingefügtes Bild

 

the bottom one here

 

as its got the stock corvette dash vent, but its got like a raised rounded area around the insturments on the left

 

and it looks somewhat like its got a momo in there, seats however look like a cross between the 1978 base, and someone maybe took an earlier top half of the seat of a 76 seat and combined and reupholstered the two to look much more ferrari like

 

like it really was the prototype for Car 3 and 4, although would that mean that both cars were turbocharged before markadian bought it and he just made the best of it.

 

as I remember him saying something ludciris about the top speed of car 4 with its turbo motor, like he was trying to buy into the turbo craze back then that the audi quattro, lotus esprit and porsche had going on back then

 

 

and I'll amend that bit about the cars being bought new, as that actually makes much more sense in a business sense, as why would buy the cars new and pay full price when you can buy them a year old and more or less new, especially when your going to jettison the bodies anyways.

 

although it certainly sounds like Car 4 started out special from the getgo, hell I wonder if the original owner knew his car became Sonny Crocketts ride 2 years latter.

Edited by Kavinsky

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Kavinsky    228
Kavinsky

Now with the Rowley cars, the idea was to try and make them more accurate and as close to the actual cars as possible, and some of them featured upgraded suspenision parts as detailed here:

 

http://www.rowleycorvette.com/reprt1.html

 

 

Eingefügtes Bild

 

and I'm not sure just how much every car of his was upgraded or uprated, as he details an upgraded suspenision rack and a few other bits and bobs in his magazine article

 

and on his website

 

http://www.rowleycorvette.com/gtc.html

 

Eingefügtes Bild

 

http://www.rowleycorvette.com/gtcparts.html

 

Eingefügtes Bild

 

Visually he came up with a plexyglass template that was upgraded and uprated from the normal way of doing things, with two front clips on the nose to help keep the plexy from distorting in the sun and he opted to also try his best to imitate the actual interior of the daytona with his

 

 

seen here

 

original:

 

Eingefügtes Bild

 

Replica Rowley

 

Eingefügtes Bild

 

 

 

 

 

 

Eingefügtes Bild

 

 

Eingefügtes Bild

 

 

Eingefügtes Bild

 

he also had an anti vapor lock part that you could buy that you can see in the photo above, although I'm not sure how much that really worked

 

Eingefügtes Bild

 

 

quoted from the website, last updated 2002

 

Cowl Induction Panel

The McBurnie cars and the like vapor lock on a hot day. We developed this panel to prevent the vapor lock. Very effective. 3 hour installation.

 

 

 

the main differences on his cars is that the front flares are disconnected from the bottom of the nose completely, either going for a very faint flaring over the wheels like this car

 

Eingefügtes Bild

 

or just over the wheels like on this one

 

Eingefügtes Bild

 

Eingefügtes Bild

 

source of the above two photos:

 

http://www.flickr.com/photos/photos-automobiles/3033789029

 

other defining traits are a grill that is flat, like on the actual cars and can be removed for easy cleaning, and door tabs that stick up above the door, that act as the door handles, like on the actual daytonas

 

Eingefügtes Bild

 

you can see the little tab thing, right at the top of the door jam where it meets with the chrome

 

Eingefügtes Bild

 

barely visibile here

 

and also rowley was the only one to escape the ferrari lawsuit in 1989, as he told his customers not to put on the ferrari badging and instead called them the rowley gtc, complete with its own badging.

 

much like markadian did at the start with the prototype cars, as in an odd twist in fate, it was the Vice film crew that put the ferrari badging on the markadian replica before the filming start of the pilot episode

Edited by Kavinsky

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Tony Trans Am    0
Tony Trans Am

Hi,

Newbie here from London, just wondering, I have bought a California daytona spyder and just having it shipped here to the U.K. Where does it fit in, I take it is not an official mcburnie but is it a continuation, a mcburnie with a different name?

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Kavinsky    228
Kavinsky

well it depends really, what does the vin number say, as in does it have mcburnie anywhere and is there any mcburnie marks on the bodywork, like in the door jams, or on the body, as they were actually sold in kits but most were built at the mcburnie coach works factory..

 

and mcburnie stopped making the stuff in 89, so it has to be a body from that time period, its just a matter if it was built back in the 1980's or latter.

Edited by Kavinsky

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Tony Trans Am    0
Tony Trans Am

I'll post some pics when it gets here. Apparently it's a factory built car in 1985.

Edited by Tony Trans Am

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reholmes    1
reholmes

Isn't Mardikian spelled Mardikian?

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Sonny-Burnett    611
Sonny-Burnett

Mardikian, Al(bert) Mardikian.

 

gallery_2717_6_101230.jpg

 

http://www.autodrome.fr/mardikian_engineering.htm#english

 

Does anyone know what became of him?

 

I think, this is the father ou our dreamcars.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gHlTeGxzfVw#t=47

 

Nice shot!   I think this may be him:

 

http://www.linkedin.com/pub/albert-mardikian/34/82/756

 

(I had always thought some were spelling it Markidian )   :birdie:

Edited by Sonny-Burnett

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Pritt    31
Pritt

He is on FB too. Maybe one of you guys can write him on and we get some new historys.

Edited by Pritt

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Kavinsky    228
Kavinsky

oh, whoops, I blame my teachers in kindergarden for that, spell it like its said -_-, which is nearly as bad as allowing people to have caculators in math class so they cant do anything in their heads.

 

and that BB there, jesus that's to die for, along with the LP400 Countach there that was made up for Rod Stuart, it used to be one of the early ones, a periscope model in dark green with a tan interior.

 

you know considering just how damn german lamborghini is nowadays you would have thought they would have come up with a targa Lambo by now.

Edited by Kavinsky

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lear60man    1
lear60man

Nice write up Kavinsky.  I really need to stop by here more often.  I always find myself looking at Daytona replicas when im bored in hotel rooms.

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Kavinsky    228
Kavinsky

your welcome, and I'm thinking of adding a part on restomodding and a different way to look at horsepower to this.

 

plus I found out something interesing about the inspector morse jaguar that no one knows about with its color. Also I'm thinking of doing a bit on the James Bond cars from Ians perspective and why the DB5, despite not being the car in the books that bond drove fits the character and what he would have wanted.

 

and it involves a 1950's ford thunderbird.

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Kavinsky    228
Kavinsky

Restomodding:

 

Now I've Just been trying to think of a good way to talk about restomodding and modding a car here, as its such a slippery slope. As you get caught up in the, it must have this, it must have that to ride this train mentality of the internet and life.

 

and everyone falls into that trap, as no one wants to think they have a crap car compaired to the next guy,

 

as they want something special, something meaningful, I mean no one wants to boast about owning a Camry or a minivan. and that was the single worse thing I've ever been in in my life, a 2001 dodge caravan, a crappy rental car.

 

worse than a nissian sunny for you top gear guys out there, although I did get my first pair of raybans from it lol someone left it in one of the pockets.

 

 

So the best advice I can give is to do/change things one at a time, have one vision, in my case, the 2006 Vice City Stinger from Vice City Stories, and give yourself a grace period to adjust to the changes, and figure out what you want out of the car, and if you want to go back to stock or do something else with it.

 

you know what feeling do you want to get from the car, is it easy to drive, hard to drive, demanding to drive, finky, annoying, troublesome, downright infuriating, and how heavy and ergonomic do you want the controls to be.

 

as that kind of thing is the main reason why people buy classic cars, as there different from everything else, as most cars are basically plug in and play these days with little thought given to when you turn the key and what kind of check list you need to go through with it and how to drive it

 

hence why Lamborghini has gone to a 4 wheel drive system, as Valentino said, it a makes everybody good driver in his trademark italian accent

 

yet he prefers rear wheel drive, hence the valentino balboni edition of the Gallardo.

 

 

So you have to look at things from a Pro's and Con's standpoint, like what do you not like about a car, and then catagorize it and figure out how to change it to what you like, car feels slow, put on a bigger carb, car overheats, switch the cooling fan around so its facing the right way around so it can actually cool the car properly (although that wasnt Sonny Burnetts fault, it was the mechanic lol) that kind of thing

 

 

 

its not unlike having a relationship with a woman, you work through the issues and change things, its when you dont that things get stale and you go off and get another one, a mistress or a different girl, in both cases.

 

so in general you have that to go off of, its a highly subjective thing.

 

 

However that being said there is a few things about the corvette that will most likely need to be restomodded, given GM's track record of only updating things when they absolutely have to, and the fact that they saw no value in racing their cars.

 

which is where all of the car development came from with Porsche on the autobahn, ferrari on the autostrada, and ford/shelby/mopar on the race track, along with the first two.

 

 

 

so going off of the changes on the C4, Rack and Pinion steering, which may have and should have been put on in 1973 with the change to radial tires

 

http://www.speeddirect.com/index.php/steeroids/c2-c3-corvette

 

 

although to be fair the fiat 124 in the 1980's didnt have a rack and pinion steering set up either

 

 

and a front anti roll bar or an increased one.

 

 

as the leaf spring was added to the front of the C4 to help with the tail happyness of the C3 according to the literature and the video here also shows the difference between the two, a 1982 and a 1985 after a year of sorting out the teething issues with the C4

 

 

 

 

and a Roll bar works in reverse, you put it opposite of what part of the car you want to stop sliding.

 

and its either that or a monte carlo bar for the front end

 

http://www.speeddirect.com/index.php/suspension/corvette-shark-bite/corvette-c2-c3-spreader-bar

 

 

next would be to change the brakes, as the brakes on the C2, and C3 up until 1978 were supposedly very primative, as over 60% - 70% of the pressure to stop the car would go to the front brakes, so they understandibly could be very troublesome on heavily worn cars

 

and they were or could be crude and required precision to work correctly, although supposedly from 1975 onwards they did change the brake design to update it abit.

 

 

so updating those to a modern unit like brembo's and the like would be something that is probably downright manditory like they did on the muscle truck here

 

 

otherwise you will probably have to be mindful of them

 

 

however there is an outright alternative to changing that, EBC brakes makes new pads called yellow pads that Harry Metcalf here is using on All of his cars, including the countach to make the brakes 15 to 20 percent better

 

 

 

and roadkill just had an EXCELENT episode covering all of the restomodding stuff I have brought up to this point

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CFNQvDAiyLk

 

 

next up would be chasis stiffness, as being a car from the 1970's that can be an issue and also the chasis of any car from that time period needs to have its chasis professionally looked over for rust, rot and metalurgy/welding problems given its age

 

as usually the stiffness of the chasis was one of the primary differences between a european car and an american one, with exceptions like the 1969 Plymouth GTX that was featured on Fast and Loud that Richard Ripped off the owner with, as it wasnt a bad piece of kit, not then and not now either.

 

its still a good car

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QMWikI9L7T0

 

Three words, Torsion bar Suspension, meaning it has more than the average amount of chasis rigidity for that time period

 

 

so generally you want to stiffen up the chasis and put in higher capacity shocks like they did on the Lancia Delta Ingrale and the Renault Clio

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oGyY9V068x4

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JB8D9Ny9wms

 

 

with stuff like this

 

http://vetteworksonline.net/6873%20harness%20bar.htm

http://www.speeddirect.com/index.php/rear-coil-over-details

 

although remember what I said about the anti roll bars, you have to try and see with alot of this stuff to see if changes it in the way you want to, so identify, find a way, and then fix the perceaved issue/ problem you have with the car. 

 

and the best way to push your car to the limit and see what you want to change, is to take it out on a race track or an autocross to work it out, make it better and have fun with it, and I'm not saying that as a safety thing.

 

its just a fact, as I had been following a guy with a 454 who took the thing racing and was redoing the suspension and the brakes of a 1968 that way, and it turned it into one hell of a street monster and quite the capable racer and car because of it

 

as that is the way Ford, Mopar and Ferrari do it, do it as the pro's do it

 

and who knows, you might end up having something this great at the end of the day, sitting in your driveway

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ewQaikxTUJs

 

and perhaps a good baseline to go off of would be the changes done to the ZR1 from the stock C3

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet_Corvette_%28C3%29

Edited by Kavinsky

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Dadrian    760
Dadrian

Thanks for all this great info!

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Kavinsky    228
Kavinsky

Thanks although I just remembered I forgot something, The Cooling, the horsepower wars and the reality of it and the electronics.

 

On cars made in the 1960's the Engine cooling was purely mechanical, as this car is based on the C2 design from 1963, just updated for 1968.

 

it was mounted to the clutch, think like the same mechanical device that they used on war planes to time the machine guns with the propeler as so you dont shred them by accident with it, same kind of idea, and the fan would run as the car ran, hence why the old cars would overheat in traffic.

 

as the fan is literally non functional in a standing still mode, and you'd be better off turning the car off.

 

now this might be a non issue on the Replicas however, as atleast on Mcburnies to my knowledge the cars were switched over to electric cooling fans that avoid this issue

 

and I'm not entirely sure if GM during the 1978 Refit of the car changed it over to this as well. as that was when they started to really update that car for the first time in a couple of years, as the oil crysis had subsided and it became obivious the corvette was going to indeed survive it.

 

also if you have cooling issues outside of that, either flush the radiator (as its probably rusty as hell) or go for a new aluminum one from someone like be cool

 

although even aluminum is not impervious to corrosion, so something like a waterless engine coolant would probably be a good step in the right direction, plus on that note there is also stablizers and the like to deal with the ethanol menace out there

 

as a matter of fact in one of the recent flying magazines theres apparently some sort of coating you can put in the gas tank to deal with the that Presidental Moron fuel, although I had only read about it being used on an aircraft with an RX7 Roatary motor in it, and I need to find the issue

 

as airplanes, plus ethanol in the tank, and siting along time = disaster. or even in flight really as if your in the air and its freezing up there, your liable to seize the engine I believe, as its more or less water in the tank after about a month, given alchohol absorbs water

 

although camera daytona has been feeding the daytona low lead aircraft fuel at a buck per more gallon to avoid the PM fuel, but the EPA in all its endless wisdom is trying to ban that, probably because he wasn the first who thought of that.

 

even though the polutants of that is some minascule level, think like 0,000002 of the total polutants in the air here in the US, yet china can do what they want, and that is probbaly where most of our modern polution comes from.

 

that and maybe farming according to James Cameron, but I'm still going to have my Steaks damn it lol

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Cameron

 

look under veganismn there.

 

 

Now abit of history on the horsepower wars.

 

as the 1974 to 1977 era was when a corvette head was non existent, as Zora, the man who turned the corvette around in the 1950's and turned it into a sales success vs the cobra by 3 to 1 had stepped down in 1974,

 

his final gift to himself was a 1974 blue corvette convertible with a 454 and 300 HP,  and corvette development had drastically slowed with that and the gas crysis. same thing with the porsche 911 in the 1980's

 

as according to excelence, the porsche magazine they were actually going to axe the 911 in the 1970's and 1980's if its sales dipped below a 100,000

 

hence the detuning of the cars down to abnormally low levels to improve gas mileage, however even at its lowest, 165 HP in 1975 with a 350, two years after a staged gas crysis

 

it was still more than a Turbo Thunderbird in 1983 with a 302 V8, with a 130 HP mind you, and through redoing the exhaust and other mods to the engine they were able to restore the HP to about 200 to 225 based on how the engine was spec'd

 

and even so the car still produces enough horsepower stock to still be competitve with a hot hatchback nowadays, so its not lacking in power, its just not modern day supercar power, as the base line for that is about atleast 300 to 350 HP I think, think 1990's lotus esprit V8 power

 

as back then, the caculations and engineering was not really capable of making things down to the 100th of an inch, as back then it was to the 10th of an inch, and it was that way till the late 1970's, so when the tech advanced to that level, so did the HP, except this time with far better gas mileage.

 

and in reality most of the horsepower figures of the 1960's were bull, as baseline with the switch from gross to net, you remove 50 HP from the horsepower figures, post 1971

 

and post gas crysis the cars were detuned to try and get some better gas mileage out of them, so remove on average another 50, and also hence why the 454s, 427's, and 426's disapeared off of the options list, as they just wouldnt sell, and what are you in the car selling game for? to sell cars.

 

so they disapeared save for large scale cars and trucks where without that torque the cars wouldnt have the kind of grunt they needed to move, like the motor home motor in this car

 

 

or the 454 used in blue bird busses

 

 

so that's the bottom line with the horsepower figures, its only now that V8's save for the race and drag prepaired specials are regularly breaking the 500+ HP levels stock

 

as the technology and metalurgy was just not affordable back in the day, and now it is, and well you see how much the graphical capability of video games has come along since 1997, now just imagine that same thing for engine technology and programing.

 

and thus its double what it was in the 1980's, as everything on average is 4000 pounds, not 2 to 3 like it was in the 1980's so you need more power to make it faster, and thus restomodding was born, as why not put the better engine in a lighter, older car

 

and the need to modernize the old cars to take that power came to pass, and tada, we have these two beauties

 

http://corvette.canney.net/webvettes/customized/c0050/index.html

 

although I would have put in the motor from the 1990's ZR1, not the new one as its just a supercharged 6.2 liter, while the old ZR1 was done up like a ferrari V8, with about the same hp figures as a V12 one, in 1993

 

 

 

now the electronics, it wouldnt be a bad idea to switch over to an acidless gel battery, like they have in boats given what kind of corrison batteries can give off like that at 7:21

 

 

and the battery is behind you in the cabin typically on a corvette.

 

and an electronic battery disconnect, for security and age reasons, given how old the car is, and also make sure that if someone worked on it, they used the same proper gauge wire it came with, an grounded the negative properly to the chasis.

 

so you want to be careful and have the car checked over by someone who knows them and the electronics, and be weary of custom stereo installations and worn wires without insulation or taped wires and its probably not a bad idea to just look over the fuse box if someones done work on it period.

 

and maybe switch the generator over to an alternator if its that old and has one, if I am getting that right, as those things on the old ones can be something like 3 X heavier than a modern alternator that gives out the same amount of power if not more, but I would say only after the wiring is looked after

 

also the battery disconnect comes into play if there is a fire, as you cut the power to whatever is fueling it if the car is still on, and turn off the car fully in a case like that.

 

and a fire extinguisher wouldnt be a bad idea, not the normal kind though, something like this, as chances are its an engine fire

 

 

most likely caused by the PM ethanol fuel, although dont let this discourage you from enjoying your classic car, its just that this is an accumulation of all the knowledge people typically have after 5 years of ownership, so I'm just trying to save everyone some trouble and some time by putting this to paper for all of you.

 

and pick and choose what info you need to help you with your current issues with your ride, be it a problem or something you just want to change on it, and this goes for any ride, not just one of the Miami Vice daytona's as this applies to old cars and restomodding in general, as theres no need to "you must buy this or your car will explode" with any of this

 

its just this is what I have found and known about this kind of car and older cars in general and what can be changed on it to deal with issues that may arise and what you can do to make it better.

Edited by Kavinsky

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Kavinsky    228
Kavinsky

actually as a good baseline, this is the kind of modifications that knowledgable restomodders will do to their cars if they were spotty from the factory to begin with

 

 

mind you I hate seeing circles in the paint like that, as it makes me want to call this guy up for Jay

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/cpcardetailing/6614853711

 

and maybe change the clock in the steering wheel, then see about putting a reverse lock out on the gated shiftee.

 

 

 

also about horsepower, you want to get the car up to or lower than a level that you feel comfortable with. as speaking from experence you want to build up that with the horsepower levels of your car as not to get caught out by it. like so many have had happen to them with cars like the shelby cobra or anything else for that matter.

 

as you want to generally be able to use a 100% of your gas pedal all the time, and not have the car skirt out on you in an emergency, which can happen if your not used to the amount of power a cobra or a viper can put out.

 

so you want to  start out with something easy to control and handle, and then work your way up, plus even the notorious speed head Carrol Shelby, the Real Life James Kirk as I think of him, said you really need only about 200 HP and anything above that is a gas

 

as he always kept this little thing as his personal car and used it up to his death, with 220 to 250 HP at 1800 pounds

 

 

 

and I started with a car with either 115 or a 130 hp, then upgraded to a car with 170 with 177 foot pounds of torque, then to again to 200

 

as that way you'll learn the limits of the chasis without putting yourself in serious danger, and this will in general allow you to be a better driver. plus for something sub 150 HP, that car wasnt half bad in the performance department.

 

so never scoff at something that doesnt say it should be fast on paper, as that thing would move, so that's another aspect of learning a car that has to be accounted for, as horsepower isnt everything, even if you like having alot of it and are willing to put up with the cars pitfalls beyond that, and noting quite encapsilates that like a porsche 356

 

 

 

and keep in mind both the 130 and 170's were sport wagons, the secret weapons of the car world, as they have to haul alot of stuff around and keep a low profile, and thus unloaded they were rockets, much like the GHL there.

 

even though the first one was as large chasis wise as the general lee with half the power and supposedly the same weight, although with how they move as a front wheel drive cars I find that hard to believe really.

 

and it was always fun to slam shift the column automatic on the old 130 HP one, which had no guiding gates or anything, I just managed to learn how to use the proper amount of pressure to instantly put it into drive from park.

 

 

 

however if you just want more top speed out of it Tiff Needell has been quoted as saying to get 10 to 15 MPH more top end out of it, you need about on average 30% more power than what you have

 

which can plainly be seen on the lamborghini countach's horsepower figures, as the car was only really good for maybe a 160 with its brick like aerodynamics before they boosted the engine to 455, or 555 for that matter which got them to about 175/180.

 

 

the same levels the ferrari 365 BBI and the testarossa were going to accomplish around the time the quatrovalve came out with far better aerodynamics and a 100 Less HP.

 

 

and another rule of thumb, is that removing a 100 pounds, it's like adding another 10 HP to the car, so that is where the advantage of aluminum parts in and around the engine bay come into play

 

and keep in mind you also need to balance all of that, with the overal weight balance of the car.

 

 

plus this is why blueprinting a cars motor, even if you didnt do anything to it can yeld better performance results

 

http://www.lambomiura.com/rest17.htm

 

as everything matters.

 

and I must wonder if that piston balancing thing was the reason why the 327 was regarded as a better, torquier motor than the 350, as it was made in an era where the cost pinching of GM wasnt quite so evident in their automobiles.

 

and thus maybe with a little tweaking, balancing and work, a 350 can put out that kind of smooth, soothing sound of a 327 C2

 

 

however that might just be the exaust/sidepipes, although it appears to be an L79 Motor in that baby, which had all the trick stuff in it.

 

and also additonally there is a handbrake upgrade kit for the old C2 and C3's, I think its burried on the old jay lenos garage website somewhere, along with the video he did with Dick Gullstrand about 7 years ago.

 

 

 

also another thing about restomodding, it can be a parade of unexpected consequences, like here

 

 

and like here

 

 

so planning ahead and doing your research is a must, and perhaps this would be a good rule of thumb to go by if you want to upgrade and race a C2 - C4 era Corvette, outside of the ZR1 in both eras.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet_Corvette_C2_Z06

Edited by Kavinsky

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