Mvice8489

Looking for a MV Daytona replica!

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Stinger390X
On ‎6‎/‎16‎/‎2017 at 1:08 AM, Bigsarg said:

 The door skins were another story. It must have taken a dozen attempts to get them perfect before we used seam sealer and glassed them down. It was a bitch. The hood was pretty easy. That's why I'm always amazed when I see these cars with the hood all out of alignment. It's just to easy to keep adjusting till it's right. 

 

I know what you mean. In the old days when I worked at a vette specialty shop, I used to glass together all kinds of things, doors , front clips, rear sections etc. We used the old GM bonding strips and fiberglass in those days. In the seventies glass filler became current and replaced some of the harder glass mat layup technigues.

Today there are wonderful products from many vendors like "3M" and "Lord" that come in a two part mixing calking gun style. There is "Pack 15" and Pack 30" meaning you have either 15 minutes to do the adhesion or thirty minutes if you need to make minor adjustments.  The nice thing about these adhesives is they are stronger than any weld !!!! You not only can bond fiberglass but metal as well.

It was invented back in the 80's when SMC became popular in vehicles such as the GM Lumina vans and other vehicles that were made of "Sheet Moulded Compound" SMC is like fiberglass only "GOOD ON BOTH SIDES" where fiberglass is "GOOD ONE SIDE" SMC is also manufactured a bit differnt than fibreglass as the material is moulded under "HEAT and PRESSURE" instead of just catalytic chemical drying of resin. Many tailgates on SUV's are SMC to cut down on weight.  Any of these space-age products have made bodywork so much easier that in the old days when I struggled restoring old 50's and 60's Vettes. SMC became prevalent in 1984 as that year Vette was the first to have it on the C4.

I don't miss the old days...............

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Sonny-Burnett

Yeah I'm not clear on what this Ron Susser's role is, unless he is some sort of Sales Rep or Selling assistant because if you look at his website, he has many different categories of items for sale. Perhaps he is a consignment rep?

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Stinger390X
1 hour ago, Sonny-Burnett said:

Yeah I'm not clear on what this Ron Susser's role is, unless he is some sort of Sales Rep or Selling assistant because if you look at his website, he has many different categories of items for sale. Perhaps he is a consignment rep?

If I recall correctly I visited some site called "cars in Barns" or something like that to look at some rare finds and I believe that is how I got on this email list of sorts?

Susser may be a broker or consultant perhaps?

 

Funny I just saw a black Daytona today on another site and it was listed in CA under a name I recognized from a rear end clip for sale in FL. I see these kinds of guys everyday and you never know what state they area REALLY from?

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Mvice8489

Guys, the Ron Susser Daytona that was used in the movie 'The Rookie' is Arturo's car.  I thought he told me he sold it but maybe the deal fell thru.  I talked to him about the car extensively a few months back (March??) but determined that it just wasn't for  me. 

Anyway, if you are seriously interested in the car PM me and I will forward his phone number to you.

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Sonny-Burnett

Yes I knew that from its location, thanks. What I was trying to determine is the relationship to this Ron Susser guy. I suppose he is some sort of fee-based seller rep who specializes in web-based sales and marketing, but I'm only guessing. And wasn't sure from the listing whether it was sold (as indicated) or was available. 

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Mvice8489
12 hours ago, Mvice8489 said:

Guys, the Ron Susser Daytona that was used in the movie 'The Rookie' is Arturo's car.  I thought he told me he sold it but maybe the deal fell thru.  I talked to him about the car extensively a few months back (March??) but determined that it just wasn't for  me. 

Anyway, if you are seriously interested in the car PM me and I will forward his phone number to you.

I can now officially confirm that this car has in fact been sold.  Someone got a great looking car.  Congrats

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Pritt
vor 22 Minuten schrieb Mvice8489:

I can now officially confirm that this car has in fact been sold.  Someone got a great looking car.  Congrats

Yes, this is a really great looking car. I still can't belive, that this is a McB. The body looks like a Exotic Coachcraft Daytona Spyder. Except the pop up headlights.

Exotic_Coachcraft_Daytona_Spyder_1986_01

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Sonny-Burnett
4 hours ago, Pritt said:

Yes, this is a really great looking car. I still can't belive, that this is a McB. The body looks like a Exotic Coachcraft Daytona Spyder. Except the pop up headlights.

Interesting...what details on the car do you see that match up?

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Pritt
vor 19 Stunden schrieb Sonny-Burnett:

Interesting...what details on the car do you see that match up?

McB Daytona Spyders with such a nice interior is uber-rare. It's unusual that a McB has doorpanels, doorhandels in- and outside, seats, vent switches and the Dayton whire wheels like this Ron Susser/Arturo car. Well, it's possible, that the private builder bought all this things by another provider (Rowley).

But the most significant thing are the front fender flares. I never saw a McB with this cut back front fender flares.

What do you think?

Hope, you can understand my bad English...

Exotic_Coachcraft_Daytona_Spyder_1986_01.thumb.jpg.6ebaa8663d93dff757196f402e469046.jpg

155424.jpg

maxresdefault.jpg

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king77
On 6/11/2017 at 3:53 PM, Mvice8489 said:

King77, any luck getting in touch with the owner?

Understand I am no way near an expert on these vehicles. And feel free to hammer me on what I see/think.

 

But this was my experience with this car and not a reflection on any bodies knowledge, business or honor, it’s just my opinion of 1 situation.

A few months ago the client calls and asks if I have seen the Susser website. I explain that I have and he directs me to a red car, the one I inquired about here. I explain that we called and asked a few questions about a couple of cars and made the determination it’s probably not what you are looking for. 2 weeks go by and another call, the client is really interested, especially the movie connection. He’s going to Chicago and wants me to set up an appointment to see the car. I say the car is not in Illinois, but in Pennsylvania. I explain that Susser is probably a rep who makes a fee if he connects a buyer to the seller thru his website. We meet and I go over what I see and at that time he passes.

 

Just my unscientific observations and again I am not disparaging anyone or challenging their expertise or that I know more, I understand I know less, but again it’s just my simple opinion. But sometimes small semantics or observations are the small details that can cost many thousands of dollars. I am not too concerned about the interior parts as they were all over the place, only the exterior look.

 

1.       The front end wheel well flairs looks different, the flair dives into the wheel well, where a McBurnie continues under the front cowling. Maybe it’s how this one was finished.

2.       Rear flairs seemed to be smaller, not as wide as a McBurnie.

3.       No rear side light/reflector.

4.       The door handles are on top, not on the side. Maybe not a big deal.

5.       The hood up front appears to be more squared off, where it appears a McBurnie is more rounded.

6.       The side indentations, to me it seems not the same as a McBurnie. Maybe wider and deeper, maybe just the paint and reflection.

7.       The rear end indentations again appear to be wider and deeper. Maybe it’s just the paint or picture angles.

 

There are Rowley built cars that look exactly like the “Rookie” car on his site. http://www.ronsusser.com/inventory/listing/ferrari-daytona-spyder-by-rowley-red-with-black-interior/

In fact one of the 1st questions I asked was if the car to the right of the one we were looking at was a McBurnie, I was told it’s a Rowley.

 

The advertisement claims Tom McBurnie built it which I have no issue but nowhere does it say it was one of his bodies. Again semantics. This one is real nice but, IMHO, not a real McBurnie body.

 

The client relented and eventually widened his search to include Replicas made by other kit car manufacturers, like the Rookie car. We called back and it was sold.

 

 

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Sonny-Burnett
12 hours ago, Pritt said:

McB Daytona Spyders with such a nice interior is uber-rare. It's unusual that a McB has doorpanels, doorhandels in- and outside, seats, vent switches and the Dayton whire wheels like this Ron Susser/Arturo car. Well, it's possible, that the private builder bought all this things by another provider (Rowley).

But the most significant thing are the front fender flares. I never saw a McB with this cut back front fender flares.

What do you think?

Hope, you can understand my bad English...

Exotic_Coachcraft_Daytona_Spyder_1986_01.thumb.jpg.6ebaa8663d93dff757196f402e469046.jpg

155424.jpg

maxresdefault.jpg

You have a great eye for details, Pritt, and I think you're spot on. If the second photo of the Ron Susser car is Arturo's car then I would also agree.... this body doesn't seem likely as a McBurnie. The flares do extend under the body on a McB car and from your photo, clearly that car (The Rookie car) does not, unless there are underbody shots that show something different. That feature as you know seems to be unique to McB cars from others I have seen.

Edited by Sonny-Burnett

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Sonny-Burnett
7 hours ago, king77 said:

 The front end wheel well flairs looks different, the flair dives into the wheel well, where a McBurnie continues under the front cowling. Maybe it’s how this one was finished.

 

2.       Rear flairs seemed to be smaller, not as wide as a McBurnie.

 

3.       No rear side light/reflector.

 

4.       The door handles are on top, not on the side. Maybe not a big deal.

 

5.       The hood up front appears to be more squared off, where it appears a McBurnie is more rounded.

 

6.       The side indentations, to me it seems not the same as a McBurnie. Maybe wider and deeper, maybe just the paint and reflection.

 

7.       The rear end indentations again appear to be wider and deeper. Maybe it’s just the paint or picture angles.

 

There are Rowley built cars that look exactly like the “Rookie” car on his site. http://www.ronsusser.com/inventory/listing/ferrari-daytona-spyder-by-rowley-red-with-black-interior/

 

In fact one of the 1st questions I asked was if the car to the right of the one we were looking at was a McBurnie, I was told it’s a Rowley.

The advertisement claims Tom McBurnie built it which I have no issue but nowhere does it say it was one of his bodies. Again semantics. This one is real nice but, IMHO, not a real McBurnie body.

 

Thanks for posting your comments @king77,  and they do seem to reinforce what @Pritt  is saying about the flares which I hadn't noticed before you guys commented. And I think you are also spot on about those and your other detailed comments.  I also commented on the missing side markers and Ferrari style (vs Alfa ) door handles, two other differences not usually seen on McB cars, as well as the Rowley grill which is actually nicer imo than the McB, but why change it if you have the McB provenance. But these mods could have been done/changed later I suppose. I hadn't seen the side indentations you mention, but I'd have to see them to compare to mine to be sure---nice observation.  Also the interior is very well done in a faux Ferrari style, something else we see in Rowleys (nicer than my McB). But the lack of a lower fender flare underbody is telling and not a minor change.

 This car is listed on the Susser site as "Ferrari Daytona Spyder Replica by McBurnie from “The Rookie” Movie Car" so clearly the Seller, Arturo, is listing and representing it as a McB.  Though one has to wonder why as a long time reseller of Daytonas and someone who would know the variances between makers, he would not have made similar observations and perhaps changed the description. Does he have more details confirming something about the car body we don't know? The letter from McB is compelling but note that it doesn't specifically state the car is one of his, but simply refers to it as "your car". Perhaps McB has a connection to the studio and he facilitated the location of a suitable car for the movie...but who knows.  I think there is compelling information in the visuals of this car to question who is represented as the maker.  Maybe @jurassic narc or @CameraDaytona  can also weigh in on this listing and car.

Edited by Sonny-Burnett

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Mvice8489

King-

Are you a car broker?  You mentioned something about "the client wanted....".  

I'd be interested in hearing about other Daytona's that you've inspected in person as well.  Any luck ever finding any good ones?

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Stinger390X

Well I have looked at a lot of these cars and I can tell you I have seen numbers matched Shelby's, Cuda's, Chevelle's and even AMC's that are better than many of these Daytona's and cheaper!!!!!

I understand there are limited numbers of these Daytona's but the price some of these people are asking for thirty plus year old scrap vette's is quite unreasonable. Most I have looked at had bad windshield frames, poor birdcages, suspension parts with dried out rubbers and rear leafs held together with scotch tape and hope! One had cracked rubber all around and the guy asked me if I wanted to go for a test drive. I looked at him and said "not on those tires" and he looked at me like I had two heads?

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king77
On 6/20/2017 at 5:40 PM, Mvice8489 said:

King-

Are you a car broker?  You mentioned something about "the client wanted....".  

I'd be interested in hearing about other Daytona's that you've inspected in person as well.  Any luck ever finding any good ones?

Some years ago I worked with the ex’s dad who collected Italian sports cars. When he retired in the mid 80’s he started a small business in So-Cal to collect, buy and sell sports cars nothing big, it was mostly just to stay busy. At the time I was working full time as a project manager for a construction company and would help out researching cars on weekends. It eventually blossomed into a full time job, so I left construction for the time being.

 

I would research the cars, go see them, get as much info as possible and the ex’s dad would then see if he could find a few interested buyers. No internet or smart phones back then so it was allot of faxes and taking pictures. Sometimes he would buy the car put some money into it and he would keep it, other times he would sell it and other times he see the car and he would bring a buyer to the seller, for a fee on both ends of course. In the late 90’s he took sick and decided to sell everything. It took about a year and during that time I went back to construction management full time.

 

Fast forward to about 2013 and my son decides he wants to get into cars. So he starts off and I help him out over the weekends. Over the next few years he builds a small, but loyal, client base and the next thing you know, the auction market takes off. And a few of his clients want to get into collecting muscle cars of the 60’s and 70’s. So I took a leave of absence for a year to help him get started and do the research. About 1 year ago I went back to construction management.

 

The recent Daytona replica search was out of the blue by the ex. She figured it would be easy, like she remembered when her dad bought Ferrari’s. She knew I loved Miami Vice and she knew I would do the research and being a Miami Vice replica she thought I was the perfect pick.

 I have been gathering my thoughts on some of the "experiences" i had in the last 7 months. I will post when I can.

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king77
On 6/20/2017 at 5:38 PM, Sonny-Burnett said:

Thanks for posting your comments @king77,  and they do seem to reinforce what @Pritt  is saying about the flares which I hadn't noticed before you guys commented. And I think you are also spot on about those and your other detailed comments.  I also commented on the missing side markers and Ferrari style (vs Alfa ) door handles, two other differences not usually seen on McB cars, as well as the Rowley grill which is actually nicer imo than the McB, but why change it if you have the McB provenance. But these mods could have been done/changed later I suppose. I hadn't seen the side indentations you mention, but I'd have to see them to compare to mine to be sure---nice observation.  Also the interior is very well done in a faux Ferrari style, something else we see in Rowleys (nicer than my McB). But the lack of a lower fender flare underbody is telling and not a minor change.

 This car is listed on the Susser site as "Ferrari Daytona Spyder Replica by McBurnie from “The Rookie” Movie Car" so clearly the Seller, Arturo, is listing and representing it as a McB.  Though one has to wonder why as a long time reseller of Daytonas and someone who would know the variances between makers, he would not have made similar observations and perhaps changed the description. Does he have more details confirming something about the car body we don't know? The letter from McB is compelling but note that it doesn't specifically state the car is one of his, but simply refers to it as "your car". Perhaps McB has a connection to the studio and he facilitated the location of a suitable car for the movie...but who knows.  I think there is compelling information in the visuals of this car to question who is represented as the maker.  Maybe @jurassic narc or @CameraDaytona  can also weigh in on this listing and car.

Here is where I got/get hung up. 2 listings, same website but notice how different they are presented

1.  "Built by Tom McBurnie (Miami Vice) and comes with letter from McBurnie". Letter says nothing about who's body it is and where built, just that it's being used in a movie and signed by Tom. If the value is in being a McBurnie body then I feel it would have been advertised front and center to attract buyers. Again I am not saying anything is wrong with the car, or saying it was not built by Tom. My opinion is that it is a Rowley body on a vette frame built by Tom, or else it would have been presented like the car in example 2 below. Again not commenting on quality of car, just what body it is.

2.   "This is not a kit car but a turnkey fully assembled car manufactured by McBurnie Coachworks". Scroll through the pictures and you see the McBurnie stamp. If the above car is a McBurnie then why not show it like this one. My opinion is because it's not a McBurnie body.

The short 7 months I looked at these the more things fell into this murky soup of who's body, 1st, 2nd or 3rd frame, who built it, who worked on it and who restored it. I used the "Rookie" car as an example on how these things get presented, making it hard to really determine what one may be looking for or what it really is.

Regular" cars, like my most recent purchase, are super easy. Run the vin and digest the information and buyer beware. I am finding out that with these type of replica cars it is very difficult to decipher.

 

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Mvice8489

"The short 7 months I looked at these the more things fell into this murky soup of who's body, 1st, 2nd or 3rd frame, who built it, who worked on it and who restored it. 

  Regular" cars, like my most recent purchase, are super easy. Run the vin and digest the information and buyer beware. I am finding out that with these type of replica cars it is very difficult to decipher."

 

PERFECTLY stated!  I too have bought and sold many 'regular' cars over the years.  That was always very straightforward stuff.

Finding a decent Daytona's, though???  Man what an impossible pain in the ass that has been!!

 

 

 

 

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Bigsarg

From talking to Bob Rowley years back. he only built cars with the corvette type door handles. He built one car with Alfa handles. Didn't like how much u had to modify the handle and car to work together. So,for that reason,this is not a Rowley car. 

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Bigsarg

I think it's this build. There are a number of things that make me believe it's this type of car. 

 

IMG_6076.PNG

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Pritt

 Yes, this is not a Rowley GTC. The Rowleys have much narrower rear fender flares like you can see in the picture below.

 

 

 

 

rowley.jpg

Edited by Pritt
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Sonny-Burnett
On ‎6‎/‎8‎/‎2017 at 4:52 AM, Pritt said:

Sorry Stinger, a Daytona Spyder with a 454 for 13k. This will be a fake or the car is completely at the end. 

 

What you think guys. This red Daytona is not a McBurnie car??? The front fender flares don't match.

 

Yes agreed, the Car listed is very likely not a Rowley as both the front and rear fender flares seem to be much wider than a typical Rowley. I don't get too hung up on interior work or door handle features because they can be changed out, with some degree of difficulty. Note the Susser/Arturo listing has been pulled down at Susser...lol

And it is also likely not a McBurnie, though the Susser/Arturo listing indicated it was.  Why would they do that, with presumably both having knowledge of these cars?

Could be an Exotic Coachcraft car as the photos shown above indicate, with the missing under nose flare. Though to me, I cannot tell from the photo whether the EC side flares are wider than those on a Rowley. Does anyone have a better view of the wheel well flares on an EC car?

Edited by Sonny-Burnett

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Sonny-Burnett
On ‎6‎/‎22‎/‎2017 at 1:34 PM, king77 said:

Here is where I got/get hung up. 2 listings, same website but notice how different they are presented

1.  "Built by Tom McBurnie (Miami Vice) and comes with letter from McBurnie". Letter says nothing about who's body it is and where built, just that it's being used in a movie and signed by Tom. If the value is in being a McBurnie body then I feel it would have been advertised front and center to attract buyers. Again I am not saying anything is wrong with the car, or saying it was not built by Tom. My opinion is that it is a Rowley body on a vette frame built by Tom, or else it would have been presented like the car in example 2 below. Again not commenting on quality of car, just what body it is.

2.   "This is not a kit car but a turnkey fully assembled car manufactured by McBurnie Coachworks". Scroll through the pictures and you see the McBurnie stamp. If the above car is a McBurnie then why not show it like this one. My opinion is because it's not a McBurnie body.

 

Agreed....I don't see it as a McBurnie either, in spite of the hype and letter from McBurnie. Not likely a Rowley either as others have pointed out above because of the wider wheel well fender flares seen in the video. It seems to be something else, perhaps an EC car.  The McBurnie stamp was added to later builds of his cars, as was mine but I believe his earlier builds did not have the stamp on the rocker panel or under-hood.

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Stinger390X

Wow...17 hrs left and not a single bid?

 

Buy it now is 31k...hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm?

 

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Dadrian

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