Kavinsky

has anyone else lost their love of the bond series?

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Kavinsky    228
Kavinsky

This is just kinda a general question, but I find myself less and less inclinded to go to the next after next bond films, and has anyone else shared this same feeling?

 

as I'm wondering if I'm the only one that's feeling this way, and part of it was brought on by Seeing the Man From Uncle Yesterday, as I had a bad week and needed to just unwind and relax, despite not being a movie theater kinda person.

 

and just seeing how much more fun and charming that was than any of the past bond films of the past 10 years, despite being a touch too much style, and reiterating one of its obivious plot points right at the end that didnt need to be reiterated.

 

and that in addition to that I have yet to see Kingsman which was directed by Paul Greengrass, that has been described as a Hard R Roger Moore Era bond, and that guy has been behind some of the borne films and a favorite of mine called Layer Cake, which had Craig in it, so its not his acting thats doing it.

 

and I gotta wonder if anyone else has picked up on this, as it feels like the movies that are being made nowadays by them seem to be repeating the same pages of the ones from the late 1990's, like their trying to be serious, but they all kinda feel like Die Another Day, or the World is Not Enough in someway or another.

 

hell I cant help but feel the guy from Inglorius Bastards and the one QT film I havent seen Django Unchained is basically going to be a page for page knock off of Eliot Carver, who was played by the always awesome Johnathan Price.

 

 

but in an over the top Donald Plessance puma man kinda way

 

 

2:23

 

and its weird, like I can forgive into Darkness, the star trek film for its flaws, which are major yet could have been fixed with an easy rework, such as replaicing the main villians name with that of Joahchim, and a few other tweaks, such as bouncing his signal between satellites with the infinite beam instead of saying he can just go all over the universe when he feels like it.

 

but I'm starting to feel more and more open contempt for the bond franchise despite having read all the original books, and having seen all the films, and well be a fan right down to the sidearms and wheels he often uses in the films.

 

and I love the old ones, yet I have no love of the Daniel Craig or latter Piece Brosnan era ones, outside of maybe the BMW scene from Tommorow never dies and them modernzing Bonds Sidearm to something that wouldnt get him killed in the Line of Duty as an operative, not a spy.

Edited by Kavinsky
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agent 47    247
agent 47

I'm both greatly looking forward to the next Bond film and reserved about it at the same time. I'm glad we are seeing SPECTRE back in action and possibly Blofeld as well but recent interviews suggest it's yet another personal story for Bond. How many times are we going down the "Bond goes rogue! He's on the edge!" routine that Craig has been pigeonholed to? When is Craig going to get his The Spy Who Loved Me or Goldfinger where he goes on a mission and does his job without some personal vendetta popping up again and again? It's like the only Fleming books Barbara Broccoli the current films' producer has read are On Her Majesty's Secret Service and You Only Live Twice. Bond in the books yes was more human in the books than he was in the initial sixteen classics produced by her father but he also did a job at the end of the day. If Connery's Bond or Moore's Bond acted like the current Bond did moping around, shirking his duties he would have been canned by Bernard Lee's M in a heartbeat.

 

Maybe it's because finding script writers as good as someone like Richard Maibaum who co-wrote for the majority of the classics or just running out of material from Flemings' novels. Maybe Barbara isn't as savvy as her father Cubby Broccoli was who was a true showman that both listened to the fans and made sure we got a good show that takes things to the next level. Now that's not to say I haven't enjoyed the films made since his passing (like the formentioned GoldenEye which is one of the best in the franchise and Skyfall which while had some of the issues mentioned above did bring back in some of the elements that made Bond films what they are) but it does feel like there's a loss as to where the producers want to go with the series. And worse yet Craig is getting the short end of the stick like Brosnan with little ability to really flesh out his Bond other than "I'm dark and depressed", Craig has brought this is up numerous times himself that he wants to at least have his Goldfinger-type film and there are points in Skyfall which show he can do such a film very well. 

 

Also maybe John Cleese was right about the amount of investment money flowing in from Asia so the producers feel they have to make films that appeal to that audience more than Cubby did. 

https://www.mi6-hq.com/news/index.php?itemid=11409&catid=4&t=tb&s=cr

Edited by agent 47
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DeepCover333    186
DeepCover333

Magnificent observations, Kavinsky and agent 47. I also lost interest in the Bond franchise for a while. Much due to the reasons that you have both listed.

For me, it was specifically when Pierce Brosnan took over the lead role. Not a bad choice, I suppose, yet I could never shake his "Remington Steele" persona.  

I'm one of probably only two people in the world that actually liked Tim Dalton somewhat, but none can compare to Moore and Connery in my book.

Overall, I am becoming interested again, I think Craig has done a decent job. Hopefully the upcoming latest installment will bring improvement, new life and return of that missing true 007 vibe.

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Tony D.    804
Tony D.

I didn't like Roger Moore......Dalton either. 

 

Pierce Brosnan revived my interest in Bond series.     Craig is ok.

 

To me, Sean Connery IS James Bond!!!     :thumbsup:

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Vincent Hanna    487
Vincent Hanna

I remember that crushing disappointment of seeing Quantum of Solace in the theatre, That was tough man. Casino Royale was such a great reboot too and they screwed up the canon by making the next film a direct sequel to CR.

 

Here's my problem with QOS and Skyfall, bear with me. At the end of Casino Royale, Bond was going to resign from MI6 but he made his peace that Vesper basically traded her life for his and he went back to work. That's the end of the Vesper story, we didn't need anymore. And then QOS came around and said "wait...Bond isn't back quite just yet, you have to sit through another whole movie that ends with Bond re-joining MI6 after his rogue revenge mission". So the whole movie was completely pointless.

 

Then Skyfall comes around and the villain is some former MI6 agent looking for revenge which is awfully similar to Goldeneye with Sean Bean's character.  I'm sick to death of these "personal" stories. I want to see a Spy Who loved me style epic adventure. Give me a megalomaniac villain who wants to take over the world then i'm a happy guy. I don't want some pretentious story about how domestic terrorism is the new threat whilst "M" gives a monologue quoting Tennyson. That was the insightful message they wanted to give us in the year 2012? They were like 11 years too late on that one and I resented Skyfall being made and the accolades it received. It was BS. And then Skyfall ends in the same way as the previous two movies with Bond becoming Bond. Maybe we'll finally get the Gunbarrel sequence at the start of Spectre. 

Edited by thedeparted94
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Vicefan7777    397
Vicefan7777

Tony D.  I couldn't have said it better myself. 

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Vincent Hanna    487
Vincent Hanna

Spectre does look really good though judging by the trailers, but If they manage to screw this one up then I'm just going keep my Connery, Moore and Dalton bond blurays. The rest can go in the trash at this point. They have one last chance to redeem themselves :evil:

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James    1,194
James

I'll be honest, I only enjoy the classics, the originals. I don't have the slightest interest in new Bond movies. I didn't even watch the whole of Skyfall, the series seems to have lost it's magic.

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Jerry B.    479
Jerry B.

As I wrote in another post, "classic" Bond movies are not only the best ones, but also the only ones.

 

Bond films from the last 15 years look just anonimous, "speed-of-light", "videogames-based" action movies to me. Tons of special fx, weak stories, no personality. Exactly as every action movie of the 2000s. You know, Mission Impossible is coming up, and you know exactly what to expect: the longest sequence will last half a second, the visual fx will be credited as the main characters, no matter if it's Tom Cruise or John Doe. "Music" and sound noises will make your ears bleed, and your heart will be forced to double its speed.

On the other hand, isn't it what the audience claims for? I call it "pain threshold".

 

Speaking about the actors, sure Connery IS Bond, Moore was acceptable. The following ones are just nerds for me, with Brosnan being the only exception, half gentleman, half S.O.B.

 

Doesn't Craig look like a dumb version of Vladimir Putin?

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Tony D.    804
Tony D.

LOL !  I love it, Jerry!   "Craig, looks like a dumb version of Vladimir Putin."   :D  :D  :D

 

What I didn't like about Roger Moore is he looked like a proper, English gentleman, without the cruel streak, that Ian Flemming said was Bond. 

 

Connery definitely had it & I felt Brosnan did also.

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Kavinsky    228
Kavinsky

You know with skyfall my delayed reaction was Explain Movie! EXPLAIN! like why is BMT 216A and her guns still active and ready for service in a gun free england in the 2010's? who dug her up, why is she here, and why does everything still work on her? yet he also forgot about the less lethal and far more useful smoke screen, oil slick and anti personnel water jets it came equiped with, along with the caltrax droppers/tire poppers. that could foreseeably still be active after all this time without any legal concequences for the department if someone found out about it.

 

as if this is still around, why didnt any of the other cars have these basic and straightforward defenses on them, as smoke screen, and oil would have saved his ass in quantom right at the start without ruining an expensive asset.

 

and it felt like it should have ended during the courthouse shootout, like there was one part too many to the film

 

and it was funny, I had the reverse reaction from Chinatown when I watched it and thought about it latter, where with Chinatown I understood and finally figured out what it was about, despite the end line saying dont think about it.  and then the more I thought about it, the dumber it seemed with skyfall.

 

hell the film pretty much relied on everyones sentimentality towards Judi Dench more than anything else, and Bond gets her killed with his stupid pocket pistol, rather than giving her one of her bodyguards guns and armor, I mean you would think if I he had a backup plan he would have used something abit more appropriate for the event like he did in the Quantom Opening chase, as he atleast had the sense to have a machine gun at the ready

 

 

and some body armor, hell Skyfall made bond look like an idiot really. I mean you use a 50 year old unrelabile and highly valuable car made at the low point for the aston martin company where David Brown was loosing money on each one, what where their no cars from the 1990's around? no sign of the astom martin Vanish from Die another day that can easily be replaced if it gets destroyed?

 

a Pocket Pistol that was pulled from service in 1972 for reliablity problems that bond himself had trouble shooting properly in an earlier point in the film, of which it is worth noting try and find ammo for a .32 nowadays while back then it was as common as the 9mm, no further armor, no further weapons, and no backup in the middle of nowhere with nothing around for cover and escape.

 

and then you think this is a good plan?! are you fucking kidding me?! what am I watching home alone? I mean the stupidity was off the charts at that point. and the boss went along with it saying it was a good plan, what? lol

 

 

and he didnt think to pull one of the guns out of the car either, like they had the sense to do in an old episode of viper, I mean when you come right down to it in an effort to celebrate the bond franchise, they ended up celebrating the worst parts of it, the ones that made Connery Leave, the you only live twice and diamonds are forever parts of the bond franchise.

 

and its just so stupid, the more I think about it, maybe that's what did it for me, they did the movie equavalent of this with Dame Judi Dench at 0:34

 

 

oh you wanna retire, lets let you die as a point of bond's redemption and growth, hell maybe it was character assassination through and through.

 

 

I mean its just so stupid, and maybe that's what got me, it felt like the film was treating me like an idiot for going out of my way to go and see it, as like I said I'm not that much of a theater goer
 

and the ones I do go to see its for something that matters to me, like seeing Mad Max back on the road again

Edited by Kavinsky

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Ferrariman    379
Ferrariman

Connery will always be Bond to me but I have to say that Daniel Craig has pumped new life into the franchise in a way that I didn't think possible.  Bond has become deadly serious again, the way it should be!  Roger Moore made a joke out of James Bond but with Craig, it's back to basics. No stupid gadgets (ok, some of them were very cool) just Bond, his fists and his gun. I love it and I'm anxiously waiting for "Spectre"!

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timm525    192
timm525

I grew up during the Moore era so I always thought he was Bond for me. As a kid I never cared for Connery. As an adult I think he was great. I actually like all but Lazenby who gave the series a black eye IMHO.

I didn't really care for Craig the first few times I saw Casino Royal and Quantom I thought was terrible. I almost walked out in the beginning of the car chase scene. I was so disapointed at how this film and other action films have made action scenes become so fast, with the camera zoomed in so tight your eyes can't keep up with the flashes of scenes. I my opinion they are sacraficing acting for action and that is not really a good thing if it is overly done like most action movies are today. Today it seems like half the world has to be blown up in explosions and the sound effects need to rupture at least one ear drum before the movie is over.

I thought Craig was way to overly built to play the character. I thought Bond doen't have time to live in a gym to look like that but after watching it a few times his character really grew on me. I thought he brought a real dark side to the part and he did it well.

I always thought each Bond character was unique to the movie they stared in. Maybe it's just bias but I couldn't picture Moore playing Skyfall any more then Craig in Moonraker.

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Kavinsky    228
Kavinsky

craig in moonraker hmm.... Jaws lol I could see him as Jaws actually lol trying to Knaw bonds face off lol

 

just die his hair black, give him some scars and give him stilts.

 

I dont know, maybe I just needed to get that rant about Skyfall off my chest, as he literally Killed M with his stupidity, its abit like Spock going into the engine room in wrath of khan, only to blow up the engines during the final countdown instead of fixing them, and then and only then does the genisis device malfunction and not blow up ontop of it lol

 

like you kinda expect someone from monty python to step in and yell REALLY?!

 

I mean lets get the damage down on paper, So the Skyfall Lodge is destroyed, the DB5 is Destroyed, M is dead, MI6 is destroyed and Silva is dead, and theres been massive death and destruction all over the world and the person you tried to save is dead anyways, like you half expect bond to commit sepiku, I mean atleast give him ONE victory yeash lol

 

I mean he is Bond, not Mad Max lol and even Mad Max faired better in his latest film lol

 

 

and in doing further research into the matter, the guy's doing the work for the writing and the script, well ironically it WAS the guys who worked on the late 1990's bond films.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neal_Purvis_and_Robert_Wade

 

so I wasnt going nuts, its still the same writing staff of those films in action up to this day of all things.

 

and well, what brought that look up on this was this, at 12:24

 

 

like who the hell wrote this god damn crap lol "slap"...OH! oh......ohhhhhh... that explains it, that explains it all lol

 

and Nemesis, Star Trek Nemesis, the TNG remake of TWOK

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Logan_%28writer%29

 

so the primary writer of specter is one of the writers of the trek movie that killed trek, although to be fair, with Rick there, it would have died anyways. but still it could explain why they keep going back to the one note that works, maybe they just arent competent enough to make a From Russia With Love, which is what I would really like to see.

 

which is bar none my favorite bond film, and it is also conneries,  as its a damn good film and also its about as grounded in reality as you can get it really, as that piece of equipment did exist and fufill that purpose

 

think like the Enigma Code book for nukes, and it was that, also For your eyes only was kinda a remake of that really, although it just didnt have the charm of it. still okay but not anywhere near as good as Kerminbay and Bond in that film

 

basically I miss spy vs spy, russia vs england, and or the third party is what I'd like to see, enough of this midlife crysis woe is me stuff, hell I had heard that Specter was made up so that it wouldnt risk angering the russians at that time period in the 60's, so I dont know, maybe what I really want to see is the return of Harry Palmer

 

which is kinda what man from uncle heavily reminded me of in a few ways, the film funeral in berlin, and the From Russia With Love Film, except where both men are working for a common goal.

 

 

 

personally when it comes to the bonds, Connery had the best version, he was cold and cacluating in the first film but you saw why, as if he didnt stay that way, he'd be dead, and they showed his personality with simple things like showing his home with the Golf Putter in it, him at the gambling club, the drink, the love of his trusty beretta, when he tried to smuggle it out under the box "just leave the beretta" and his love of the Bentley which was replaced by a modern one under a different name in Goldfinger lol

 

and that look he gave it, like how is this better than my old car, oh, oh your joking, I never joke about my work 007. hmm maybe this wont be so bad......

 

I mean you dont need dialog for those things, its all down to the actor, and the little touches. and I'd say if it wasnt for connery and his work on that film, bond would have died in 1962

although I must admit past 1965 it was probably best for him to move on, with Roger, I didnt mind a few of his films, but he turned into a grand dad in the 1980's, Grampa Bond, and his films got bogged down in sillyness and stupid of the time stuff, the man with the golden guns second plot for instance, but literally it was the Saint playing Bond, which isnt a bad thing, its just not the right fit for the charachter, and Diamonds are Forever seems like it was a film made for him, not Connery.

 

Lasenby, honestly I dont know as I havent seen it in years, I just thought it was more of a TV movie than a bond movie back when I first saw it, Kojack Vs this guy the movie, who wins? well first things first, who the hell is this guy, that's bond? really? really really? Okay... its alot to swallow even nowadays.

 

Dalton though, I liked him but he never really got the fair shake he needed, his Bond only had half a good film in 1988, and with Licence to Kill well as weird as it sounds it did seem like an Episode of Miami Vice made for the big screen lol and I cant help but think how much better goldeneye would have been with him

 

as everything would have made far more sense Dialog wise, the New M, the fall of russia, his preference for the aston given his drive with the V8 in his first movie, its just one of those oh god damn it kinda moves really. like the more you think about it, the more you wish it would have happened. ditto with connery in OHMSS

 

and his work in Hot Fuzz was great, I loved seeing him in that, hell I sometimes get those kinda connect the dots like things Simon Pegg had happen to him in that to myself really lol, great bloody film lol. even though I had someone spoil it before I saw it the first time, as I just didnt think it could have been that good, it was lol

 

Brosnan though, he was safe, that's all I can really say about him, nothing wrong with him, but nothing sticks out with him either, atleast from the performances I've seen of him

 

hell his most memorable bits were Remington Steel and here

 

 

but to be fair outside of Remington, the long good friday, the bond films and Mrs Doubtfire I havent seen anything from him really lol

 

maybe he would have made a good bond in the 1980's with the right writing team, but with the way the 1990's ones were, it just seemed like what someone thought bond was, and not actually what he was, a brand by brand wearer who goes around and shoots people, rather than someone who uses said things because their the best and he needs the best for his work given how risky it is.

 

like a poser vs a love of said things, and maybe that's the problem with craigs bond in a way, this is what someone would think Bonds Real life would be like, rather than what it would be like, as anyone who hates their work, doesnt believe in it or has such moral qualms about it and fails at it like he has would have left or died long ago.

 

I mean he lost vesper and the money, caught the guy that used her, and that was it, nothing else save for getting a new boss has really happened to him thus far,

 

vs Connery's bond, Foiling Dr No and his missle topping scheme, Stealing a key Eningma like codex machine, and stopping goldfingers attempt to radiate fort knox for the chinese.

 

I mean 2 out of 3 of those things kinda seems plausable too, and gotta love how they rewrote the plot of goldfinger to match the logical problem with stealing the gold originally that someone wrote in and called Ian on.

Edited by Kavinsky
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Vincent Hanna    487
Vincent Hanna

The thing that got me with Skyfall was it was so determined to tell us that the classic bond had no place in the 21st century where domestic terrorism has replaced espionage and subterfuge. It's so stupid because we still have the same national enemies that we did decades ago. Russia and Putin, China hacked the US a couple of months ago, North Korea, Iran. Just because 9/11 happened doesn't mean James Bond is rendered worthless. There's still a place for him and that's why Skyfall sucked and misinformed.

 

I want a fun bond movie and not a rip off of the Batman films where everything is gritty and boring. From Russia with Love was serious but it wasn't overbearingly dark like Skyfall was.

Edited by thedeparted94
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damrod    67
damrod

Never like Timothy Dalton as Bond

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Kavinsky    228
Kavinsky

yeah its just one of those things where the whole writers of the Brosnan era thing explains alot, plus they may just not have the confidence in themselves to get away from the page by page repeat of Casino Royale it seems that we've been stuck in for the past, what is it now? 10 years since we heard Craig was going to take the role.

 

and if I maybe petty for a few moments, in rewatching that specter trailer, they really need to let him grown his hair out, as his ears, well he looks like Mr Rumbold from are you being served with that stupid f'ng short haircut

 

Spectre_poster.jpg

 

 

vs his look in layer cake in 04'

 

6858246369_a5be87318c_o.jpg

 

and this old promo shot

 

339551214_755e50be3c_o.jpg

 

as him with the shorthair cut and white tux, he just looks so stupid and out of place, its like someone trying to do a cosplay of Connery

 

as at 1:49 its like a tiny head on a brick shithouse lol or the reverse rather and it just makes him look like an old man.

 

 

its just so wrong and out of place, like they need to give his hair more volume as this is literally one of the shots that shows up when you put daniel craig bond in the flicker image search thing

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/robotalphabet/6601673127/sizes/l

 

 

 

sorry I must be in a Mike Torino kinda mood tonight lol although if I had to choose someone to do a new bond film I think paul greengrass would do a fine job, as he and craig have wanted to get back together to do a layer cake 2 for awhile now, plus the writer behind Layer Cake did Kingsman too, and I really need to see that film now the more I think of it.

 

 

 

and dump those writers in the channel while their at it, if for no other reason that they had a part in the JInx scene and the rape scene in Nemesis, also sex worker since age 12, and bond screws her in Skyfall right after said revelation, eww.

 

now you see why this is starting to come together now in my head, and why I am dubious at best to the prospects of this being a good bond film, hell I half expect this to be a moonraker level of failure given its budget and the talent behind it.

 

as no matter how good the director is, if the writings bad, all you get is a very pretty film that will only be fun on the first sit, unless one of the actors goes above and beyond to either have a blast with the film and go full on Nick Cage Or Jerrmy Irons with it, or do his damndest to make it good.

 

 

 

 

on a different unrelated note though, with dalton I can see why people would be put off on him, as he's kinda like Lazenby in a way, and actually he was one of the choices for the 1969 film, but turned it down saying he was too young for it. I just personally liked him better as a post burnt out bond, as he played that very well, while still having a sense of humor, namely during the V8 Chase scene in his first movie

 

as that sounds like the kinda things I would say actually lol plus the guy who played Q, Desmond Llewelyn said he personally thought he was the closest to how bond was portrayed in the books, and I can see it in the post tracy's death part of his life

 

and craigs bond, while this is down to the writing doesnt seem to have one and actually from that perspective Licence to kill with Dalton Kinda makes sense, if you look at it like they were trying to do a Lazenby Follow up without him.

Edited by Kavinsky

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Sonny-Burnett    611
Sonny-Burnett

Connery will always be Bond to me but I have to say that Daniel Craig has pumped new life into the franchise in a way that I didn't think possible.  Bond has become deadly serious again, the way it should be!  Roger Moore made a joke out of James Bond but with Craig, it's back to basics. No stupid gadgets (ok, some of them were very cool) just Bond, his fists and his gun. I love it and I'm anxiously waiting for "Spectre"!

 

I think you're spot on. I always thought Connery epitomized Bond, while Moore made a parody of Bond. Dalton, while quite edgy in the role, seemed disinterested at times. Brosnan was ok but didn't light up the screen.

I think Craig is excellent in the role, and probably the closest to the character drawn up by Fleming in the '50s as a tough and edgy character, even if he brings out the misogynistic behaviors that Fleming was notorious for, and drew into the character of Bond.

I hope the rumors are not true that the PC world is now coming into play in re-drawing the next Bond as Elba. The writers should keep Bond consistent as imagined by Fleming.

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Touch of Class    53
Touch of Class

... determined to tell us that the classic bond had no place in the 21st century...

 

Honestly, this has been going on even since Goldeneye. The series has been grappling with Bond's anachronistic image ever since Brosnan was introduced -- not quite knowing where to strike the post-Cold War balance of irony.

 

Then came Daniel Craig, whom I do not like in the role at all. There's very little that's suave about him, I find. This is also when the series became po-faced, rather bland, and not very interesting, cinematographically, with its boring gunmetal and sort-of-sepia hues.

 

No, I enjoyed every film preceding Goldeneye, with The World is not Enough as a highlight in the Brosnan era (I thought Brosnan was a good fit for the character).

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Kavinsky    228
Kavinsky

I think you're spot on. I always thought Connery epitomized Bond, while Moore made a parody of Bond. Dalton, while quite edgy in the role, seemed disinterested at times. Brosnan was ok but didn't light up the screen.

I think Craig is excellent in the role, and probably the closest to the character drawn up by Fleming in the '50s as a tough and edgy character, even if he brings out the misogynistic behaviors that Fleming was notorious for, and drew into the character of Bond.

I hope the rumors are not true that the PC world is now coming into play in re-drawing the next Bond as Elba. The writers should keep Bond consistent as imagined by Fleming.

 

 

You know in looking at Quantom from that perspective it does make sense, as the whole film revolved around Oleg what's her name in that film, and her search for revenge, while bond acted like her second in command when you come right down to it.

 

If I am interpreting what you mean by Elba Correctly, as literally the biggest things bond does in that film that I remember is that he gets into a car chase with Mr. White in the Trunk, who miraculously doesn't get shot, or have his neck broken by the sudden acceleration and deacclerations of the chase, an aircraft crash, he tells frog eyes to go take a walk in the desert and then captures the guy at the end without killing him.

 

and that is about it, hell a far better name for that film would have been taken straight from well, an old spy film game I remember fondly from the old days, called No one lives forever, such is the nature of revenge.

 

and it was far more fitting for a borne movie, not a bond movie really, if that red headed girl had turned out to be a fellow spy/assasin.

 

 

plus well this that was from the same guy I used the Die Another Day clip from, at 3:56

 

 

as well changing that term reeks of put your dick in a letter and mail it to an SJW for me, like some high school boy who feels guilty for getting a buzz from looking at a pretty lady, and is ashamed of it.

 

as I'm trying to not be that crude here lol

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Kavinsky    228
Kavinsky

Just thought I'd start this up again as after writing the last post I decided to go through the bond series top to bottom, Dr. No To Skyfall, Never Say Never Included.

 

 

and in watching Skyfall again, its not what I thought was the problem with it was, its purely a problem with Neil and Paul Pervis's writing, their hacks, quite literally, and ill get into that with their past work in abit here, the directing and the story is top notch save for a few questionable areas, and premises.

 

but its execution save for a few pitfalls is excelent. which would explain why it wasnt until thinkiing about it after I hadnt seen the film in a few months I relized how stupid some of the key, latter plot points are, but the direction, artwork, art direction, and my god keep this man whatever his name is! and acting, the acting for the first time in 7 films since bond came back with goldeneye feels geniune and fluid for once.

 

rather than standoffish and sometimes stilted quite frankly, as every conversation felt like a duel of some sort since goldeneye, this it doesnt.

 

and the new composer feels proper for the bond film actually for the first time since goldeneye, as sacreligious as that sounds given David Arnold was chosen by the man himself John Barry to replace him in Tommorow Never Dies, but it does, its the first time since Erric Serra, the guy who scored a bunch of Luc Besson films including Leon the Professional scored Goldeneye, that its got a recognizable score which was the only modern one to feel like it had a theme going musically wise. 

 

 

but it comes back to Neil and Paul, and I think the faults of the bond series are mostly all theirs to share, now why do I say that? some of the stuff they've written for the bond franchise seems to have been a hack job in some way or another or it relies on the laurels of the past to feel any empathy for their subject matter.

 

Goldeneye: Xena is stolen hand over fist from Never Say Never Again, just with a different origin story, a fetish for crushing people and a lack of preference for high heeled shoes, and the film itself seems to get its ideas about bond not being useful or over the hill with a new M from that movie, and it feels like the duel between Blofield and Bond seems to have been reworked and changed to 006 almost, and like they were trying to write it for dalton, not pierce, like those were left overs from the original script.

 

along with the DB5 coming back out of nowhere, when in all honestly when you think about it should have been his V8 Vantage from the living daylights, which would have been much more of a threat to the ferrari

 

 

Die Another deal, day sorry: the ending of the film, the weapon and the mad man who runs the place is stolen from Diamonds Are Forever, like they had a compelling story of bond being betrayed and they lost it as soon as they got back to london, ran out of steam and stole the diamond weapon from that movie.

 

like I couldnt bloody believe it when I saw that, like wait..... they didnt....... Diamond powered Weapon that acts as a heatray that can be used to destroy military weapons....... WOW.

 

 

and Casino Royale, it seems like the good bits are the ones stolen from the books, but the dialog and the way it comes across and the plot points of that movie in the first 35 mintues are highly questionable, and I actually dreaded starting this movie up after Die Another Day, as up until the Ice Pallace I had actually enjoyed that film, and even then it was stupid fun, as that was the one thing you could say about the modern bond films

 

their atleast good at action, plus John Clease made an Excellent Q

 

but every attempt to do a build up before Die Another Day was a failure it seemed, like it dragged on too long, and the only bright spots were The Russian Arms Dealer, Johnathan Pryce, Xena, Olanov, 006 and R and Q, like it was just the actors who pulled that through

 

hence why they never let poor Q retire, it was like they were going to milk him as long as possible, and past the world is not enough it sounds like that wasn't going to be the actual end for him, it just turned out to be.

 

and its like you always have to get half way through for a Neil and Paul Pervis film to start to work, save for Die Another Day, like as soon as you get to the hotel scene before the chase scene in the parking lot in Tommorow things start to work.

 

although special note must be made that I think all of the good lines in Tomorrow Never Dies do NOT belong to Neil and Paul, its actually Nick Meyer of star trek 2 fame,

 

who was brought in to do some uncreditied work, as the film was more than a little rushed after goldeneye, hence why some of its dialog, despite being a slow misplaced film actually seemed, good, namely his what people want speech was superb, but its still a painful movie to sit through. 

 

and it feels like the only token thing worth remembering about that movie is bond switched to a p99 and drove the hell out of a V12 750 IL in that one, thus inspiring the transporter franchise in the process lol

 

 

and The World is not enough, well, it just felt like a generic action film, it had its good moments but nothing really spectacular, and suffered the same problem of not being engaged in the plot till the middle, although I did manage to work in the arms dealers words recently

 

the Insurance Company is never going to believe this!

 

and the woman who played Electra King, jesus, she certainly fits the bill, and Pierce has his one moment of badassery from ending her in the movie. and Q's ending was quite good, what is it that I have always told you, first never let them see you bleed, and 2nd always have an escape plan.

 

pitty he didnt remember that for Die Another Day really.

 

 

 

But with Casino the problems are pretty key and petty at the same time, but they do build up, why didnt bond NOT tail him and chase him like a moron though the building site, he only thought he had one tail until he made himself known. he could have just played it cool and said he was going in for papers and ambushed him in the embassy bathroom

 

Bond drives up in the new ford KA, looks at this phone, crashes some guys poor car just because he was a little snooty to him at the club, and no one goes looking for him afterward, and he's not kicked out or fined for damaging a bunch of innocent peoples cars. despite him bumping into the owner of said car latter that night.

 

and he wins a 220 thousand dollar DB5, a rare left hand model with american plates over a 20 thousand dollar poker game, which is then never seen again or mentioned, no dialog of him or someone else saying the import papers for your car came in by the way.

 

and that product placement is pretty painful, namely the Persol sunglasses just lying out and about in the airport cheap shop for anyone to walk up, grab and run off with, just so the main baddy can put them on to spot bond at the airport? the ford KA, the phone, and those viao lap tops, its just all so hamfisted to say the least

 

hell I didnt even notice the Persol sunglasses until recently because of all the trouble I went through to find a pair that actually worked for me. so its like hey wait, is he putting on 300 dollar sunglasses in an airport cheap shop?! complete with a little sticker on the plastic to let you know what they were.
 

 

I mean it feels like someones checking off a check list of things to show or do rather than creating something organic that flows properly in their movies, Chase Scene, Check, shootout, Check, Rogue action to show this aint your mama's bond, check, insert sassy woman and asshole that doesnt deserve her, check and check,

 

and he wins the car he's always wanted or had since 1995 that's from the classic film goldfinger that everybody loves, check check check!

 

 

and James Bond 007 status confirmed? wait shouldn't that been 00 Status Confirmed, as that kind of leads credence to the idea that bond and 007 is a name that they give to certain agents that are known to the enemy to get them to panic and screw up

 

that along with the line I knew it was too early to promote and use you, and dont 00's have a short life expectancy, yet the only 00's we see is bond and maybe one or two other people.

 

like 007 is their boogeyman so to speak, and if they had actually cast Sean Connery as the Gamekeeper in Skyfall like they were thinking about doing it would have proved it basically, atleast for the Pierce Brosnan era

 

 

also did anyone catch what M said about Le Chiffre's organization after they found her, the bastards girlfriend, dead at the hotel right after the attempted plane attack as no ones brought this up it seems.

 

as she literally implies that le chifree's organization was betting on the 911 attack, kinda implying that specter, now that they can call it specter had a hand in it this whole time.

 

 

and I had to do a double take and rewind it a few times to confirm what I heard, as I was like what?! Really?! that cant be right.....

 

and also they stole the idea of Felix being black from Never Say Never Again, as that was literally Connery's idea to make him more memorable by doing that, and I dont know I didnt really like Felix, he seemed way too uptight and angry like all he really wanted to do was punch people in the face, even in Quantom, its like he's never been happy and that was the end of him it seemed. not that I'll miss him,

 

 

as I can think of a far better replacement for him off of the top of my head

 

 

get that guy EON, just do it lol First Name Ben, Last: Sisko Middle: Dont F**** With The

 

or better yet you had THIS guy on set

 

 

imagine how out of the blue and cool that would have been lol okay granted movement might have been an issue but still give him a chance to loose a few to better fit into the role. just put him on bottled water instead of soda, as that should do it.

 

 

 

but once again its the actors who really do the heavy lifting, I'm the money? what?! the gull of that little.... lol and it just seemed so Juvenile like something a teenager would say. like the hell's your problem lady, what did I do to you in my past life to deserve this lol 

 

not to mention those eyes, jesus, I'm surprised I pull a spell on you didnt start up in the background, I guess it would have if it was directed by the guy who did layer cake now that I think of it

 

 

 

but besides the set up the movie does work well, as once it gets into the book and the after effect it does work well, its just before that that feels like a checklist,

 

although there is one REALLY stupid thing that drove me nuts past that, Oh its the Tell! Oh its the tell! that was telegraphed like a phonebook to the face!

 

like shut up mathis, you wanna tell him that lol and that was only in there as a red herring for the audience that didnt need to be emphasised

Edited by Kavinsky

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miamijimf    957
miamijimf

Still a Bond fan, from Dr. No until today.

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Kavinsky    228
Kavinsky

Quantum I dont know, the film was made up during a writers strike so there was alot of improvised lines and I think I'm in the minority but I liked Quantom better than Casino, probably just because of that and thus the dialog didnt seem as stilted, although it did have a few problems with it

 

the dork that was with felix in it, but that was intended, and Stawberry Fields was so out of place in it with that outfit, seriously I half expected her to flash people with it

 

 

 

like for god sakes give her something dignified to wear, yeash

 

and Oleg just looks like a bright orange mellon, its kind of distracting in a way

 

but other than that I actually liked the writing, and the only real problem with the film was the quantom thing as when I think Quantom, I think Nuka Cola Quantom or Quantom Torpedo's not a Criminal organization

 

and a Q ear phone, I mean why not the Venturi Organization, and call it, the movie, the nature of revenge or maybe some jazzed up version of that with a normal ear phone

 

plus the ending, two simple modifications, Final Line but I never left with a questioning and then a laughing stare, and I would have him drop the necklace but be shown putting the photo in his wallet to show that both men and women are equal just based on how much either side can be manipulated by a lover.

 

 

 

now with Skyfall, the problems lie in the stupid things that are done to advance the plot, not the acting or the lines really, like the chase, getting shot, twice, and falling off the bridge

 

I mean how many people did Moneypenny kill in that chase by driving like that down the opposite side of the road?, and with bond digging into that train car, and yet miraculously no one gets hurt? like really? I mean they were all sitting down, it'd be one thing if it was something like the tube car where they're standing and they can get the hell out of the way first in a hurry

 

and he could have ended the chase earlier if he closed the slide on his gun and bluffed him into thinking he still had some ammo left, instead he tosses it like an idiot,

 

 

 

and the film REALLY illustrates why bond really needed to keep his P99, as he runs out in every chase and firefight scene it seems. I mean why not have both of them in a double shoulder holster or something.

 

 

as even in Quantom Bond only used it, the PPK for the start and the fight at the opera, in the latter one he switched to a full sized pistol he stole off of one of his own boys. which makes sense as you wouldnt take a pocket pistol to a known firefight in the making.

 

although I did like that he actually shoved it in his pocket more than a few times, as it was designed as a pocket pistol for plain clothes detectives in the first place, as the literal translation of its name is Police Pistol Short, and it was made for Detectives but still 007 really needs to have his P99 back. and maybe have the PPK on a hip holster like tubbs used in Irish eyes to pull his revolver on General Golgo from the 80's bond films as a backup

 

 

hell frankly if I was the armorer I would have him switch to this instead as the primary

 

 

and I am thoroughly impressed with how that thing feels, as it feels much better in hand than the old square framed P99 he was using

 

as he needs something with more than just 7 shots at this point, as he officially switched to a PPK/S in this and its getting to the point where I think the Major who suggested the PPK would write another letter to these guys complaining about using a pocket pistol for all and all out urban warfare if he was still alive

 

as just imagine one of our soldiers using a PPK in a firefight instead of his 92FS, he would get laughed out of the service if he did it by choice like bond seems to be doing, namely in the courthouse shootout, as it'd be fine as a plain clothes T shirt kinda weapon for going incognito, but not as the primary he carries all the time.

 

hell if they wanted to keep it in time period while giving him something stronger and better in that regard..... well just switch him to the P38 like he used in Goldfinger, kind of ironic given how often the DB5 has come back yet that hasnt really.

 

they even made a modern version with all the improvements in 1999 that would fit the bill

 

http://www.carlwalther.com/images/hp_60y.jpg

 

the 60th anniversary one, its still bondish and just as famous as the PPK, hmm maybe that's why I like that thing so much now that I think of it.

 

 

and also you cant mend circuitry that can read your palm to metal like that on the PPK/S, circuitry and metal dont work that way, you would need gears, gizmos, and motors that fiddle with the pistols operation to get it work that way, the closest example of that actually happening in real life was with a Dallas Police Officer and an HK P7 Squease cocker pistol

 

the gun that Alan Rickman used in Die Hard, that hard chromed thing.

 

where the bad guy picked up the cops gun during a fight with him, and failed to squease it to cock it while trying to fire it, and the thing didnt go off, allowing the officer to neutralize the subject safely.

 

or in bonds case give a Komodo dragon enough time to eat his opponent, and to give him enough time to step on a blatantly CGI one

 

 

and what of a bulletproof vest, why isnt anyone in MI5 packing a light vest of some sort, you know something, anything, I mean doesnt this M care about Casualties in her own department?

 

 

1:06

 

I mean it really paints her as an idiot really, and I think that is the biggest problem with the movie, it paints her in a stupid light, not quite a moron, but certainly not of the soundest in judgement.

 

and Q, Q looks like he belongs in Harry Potter, not James Bond, granted that was the point of the casting but still, and the whole silva hacking them once he was caught thing, I saw that on NCIS back when Bellsario was heading the thing and Gibbs Promptly just pulled the plug to stop the hack on Abby's computer, problem solved

 

and I cant help but think that Kurtwood smith should have tapped on his shoulder and yelled his famous catchphrase in his ear after he accidentally lets Silvia out like that.

 

and actually most of the problems come from using outdated equipment in this film, and the lack of explanation or finesse in explaining their uses, like their there but not explained, which pulls you out of the film a little bit

 

and the DB5 is the most pertinent one, yes I know 50th but they could have asked Q I need to find an old company car in working order that doesnt have a tracker, okay head to the old Q labs that act as storage now.

 

and have bond accidentally find the gadgets and look for the manual, and even then what of the Aston Martin Vanquish? I mean they used it in the video games past Die Another Day.

 

plus with him showing at that lockup, it implies that its the car from Casino Royale, as M tells him all his old stuff has been moved to storage, and now that car suddenly has BMT216A on the plate, and the car is actually BMT 214A, the car used in all the Pierce Brosnan Films actually

 

while the one in Casino had american plates on it and was a left hand drive.

 

hell i would have rather had them trump expectations and show the car in its original color if they really wanted to do something special

 

 

as I've seen what a DB5 looks like in that color, it looks so much better than silver

 

2791126435_db117e17cf.jpg

 

Yup the DB5 was originally this color with a dark blue and black interior, could have even said oh I restored it to its original color, as some idiot had painted it silver, as if it looked like this in red, it was a crime to paint it silver lol

Edited by Kavinsky

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Kavinsky    228
Kavinsky

especially the wrong shade, everyone keeps painting in Bearch silver, which has a champaign like tint to it,

 

 

 

the original, this one here

 

 

the driving car that was retrofitted with gadgets post goldfinger wasnt in that shade, it was a basic silver. note the damage to the front from running into the false wall. seen in the movie, not repaired along with the grill

 

also I guess Aston DB's of the time period might use something like a Moss Jaguar gearbox where you have to shift to neutral and then into gear for first, as they didnt have a sychro for it, for what reason i really dont know, I can only speculate so it didnt wear the hell out of the synchro that would see the most use in first.

 

 

 

plus the background information and story work about bond, his backstory, I must admit it feels like something that should be applied to a bond who's 20, not 40+ in this movie, plus the whole thing about how orphans make the best killers really rubbed me wrong, as it felt like something that should not be applied to bond, but rather Jason Borne, like this is supposed to be an older version of him using the pseudonym of James Bond while working for MI5 rather than the CIA.

 

and it just all and all feels rather creepy, and like Barbara Brocolli is trying to put an origin to something that doesnt need it, and it feels like a superhero origin story as a result. and its like we the audience are twisting the screws on an old friend about something that he burred and got over long ago.

 

and as a result you feel guilty in indulging in it.

 

and did they basically reveal M's real name to be Emma judging by what the gamekeeper kept calling her?

 

 

and I must add that the ending of the film seems abit abrupt, Silvas dead, she's alive and then its like an on off switch, like she says well you took your bloody time 007 in such a way it sounds like she's fine and then she collapses, like it was a bad redub.

 

like you just go like WHAT?! what the hell movie. why not have her retire peacefully, and the whole thing felt like it was trying to give an end to Bernard Lee's M and not this M in a way, as she wasnt active during the cold war in the film series, she was past that.

 

 

and it splits back to london for the epilogue, and that groanworthy moneypenny dialog, I would have revamped that abit, like Eve I only know your first name, what's your last, Eve, Just Eve

 

 

why just that?

 

and then say she prefers that given how many people have said to her, Moneypenny? Hmph Worth Every Penny! while looking her over, hell you could have even made a joke about all the names Daniel Craig got before he took over the role

 

Bland, James Bland and all that

 

 

and that obsessive use of the term 007, just call him bond M, stop being a tosser, and what's this place, oh its some old importation firm that were using as a cover in the meantime till M16 is operational again, Tea and China Exports I think it was, and maybe not make it look so much like the old one.

 

as I missed M's office once they got rid of it for Quantom, as that was a really nice place, a proper office for M, that new one looked like someone was trying to hard to make it all look so advanced, so it would have been so much nicer to see that instead of the old one

 

along with maybe having Bond say once he got that dog, okay as soon as I get home I'm painting this damn thing black lol

 

of which in looking it up just now, as to figure out why I thought of this out of the blue, this showed up

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_dog_%28ghost%29

 

which really would have worked for the film quite well really, given the themes of it.

 

 

 

but its just so all over the place it seems in some ways, like well the Neil and Paul checklist is in full swing again, except this time they have a far more talented director, editor and writer to cover up their sloppy wielded seems, as the editor of this is the guy who did the lethal weapon movies and a ton of others that I know were actually quite good.

 

so he knows what he's doing, along with Sam, while John Logan, I dont know I've never been a fan of his work but I've never hated it.

 

 

and I think if the bond series drops the references to the past, the backstory, Neil and Paul, and just sticks with the basics of its premises it should have a chance again, as skyfall seems to be the best of the past 20 years quite frankly.

 

 

 

hell before rewatching this film in particular I remember one of you guys saying their is no modern bond films, I would have to agree with you after watching them back to front.

 

As bond as a person died or retired and lived happily ever after with the woman from License to Kill depending on the way you see it.  as he finally got his redemption for tracy's death in that film, and you could literally see Dalton, who was actually considered to play bond in the 69' film be haunted by tracy when he tried to get the female lead of that film the hell away from the action, and in a way Q helping him made up for his lack of foresite in that film.

 

and it was a nice inadvertent way to end the series, sadly without John Barry's hand it must be said, but it really completed bond's arc quite well, and I think its the best of the old bond films quite frankly, despite alot of people saying the opposite.

 

 

after seeing this film however, I'm not so sure that bond is really dead, as this was actually a very promising film, as you can almost not see the stitched together seams of the previous films in it that the pervis's are known for, but there's the problem

 

Specter is a reference to a reference in of itself all over again, and outdated organization that had its place as a surrogate of the Russians in the cold war that grew into something else.

 

of which Sir Roger Moore quite frankly rightly dropped in its place in "For Your Eyes Only" when things cooled off abit to the point where they could use the Russians directly in their movies without risking an internation incident or sparking off something at the height of the cold war, hence their use in from Russia With Love.

 

where General Golgo made his first appearance as a specter henchmen actually lol

 

and to top it off they used the bullet hole from the DBS in On Her Majesty's Secret Service as the logo of Specter, which makes me wonder are they going to try and play the Vesper/Tracy thing again with the pig faced girl they showed in the trailers?

 

the one who has something wrong with her nose that came from one of the mission impossible films.

 

so I guess my general attitude as gone from its going to suck and be the next moonraker to maybe this wont be so bad, if they do it right, but yet again, Neil and Paul are involved,

 

as those boys are the Rick Berman and Brandon Braga of the Bond Franchise, and I think once they get removed with this kind of talent eventually we could get some much higher quality films on our hands.

 

provided they dont hire the people who wrote the transformers films in afterwards, and also apparently they hired the second unit director from the Borne series to do Quantom, so the borne thing is probably highly intentional.

 

and it would explain the opera gun fight and the whole pen scene being redone except with bond in that one.

Edited by Kavinsky

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agent 47    247
agent 47

I'm glad to see this thread revived as recently things have been hitting the fan with Daniel Craig.

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/celebritynews/11927517/Daniel-Craig-told-to-shut-up-and-stop-bashing-James-Bond.html

 

The fans are especially not happy with the suggestion that Craig will just phone it in so to speak if he does future Bond films. The general consensus seems to be that Craig is probably not going to last given these comments and recent issues with the film's production. So far SPECTRE has gone way over budget at $300 million+ and they were still doing reshoots as late as last month when the film is set to make it's big premiere next week. Plus it doesn't help that an earlier draft of this film's screenplay got leaked and everyone who read some of the plot points and ending say it would wreck this film and the series (I didn't read the script myself but I've been given the short and sweet on the ending and a few things. Believe me when I say if they do run with the original ending idea then the Blu-ray will only be worth a purchase if you want a $24.99 coaster). All this has really put the film series in a tight spot. If this film doesn't perform well enough or is a critical flop with the fans then I can almost guarantee that this film series is heading down a dark road and Craig is the first person who's going to be kicked out of the clown car first to fend for himself.

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