Sign in to follow this  
miamijimf

Pistol shoots down aircraft

Recommended Posts

miamijimf

A lot of fans think that Sonny shooting down an aircraft with a handgun is pure Hollywood and it is next to impossible.  But there is reason to believe that once a handgun really did bring down a plane.  Check out this amazing case,

 

https://www.warhistoryonline.com/world-war-ii/right-jumped-out-of-his-crippled-b-24-shot-down-a-zero-with-his-m1911-whilst-in-hisparachute.html

Edited by miamijimf

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Vincent Hanna

If James Bond can shoot down a chopper with a handgun in "Spectre" than so can Sonny Crockett   :rauchen:

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
DeepCover333

If James Bond can shoot down a chopper with a handgun in "Spectre" than so can Sonny Crockett   :rauchen:

 

I finally saw Spectre today, and I just happened to read this minutes before I walked into the theater, haha. So I was anxiously awaiting this scene. I'm tempted to give a review of the movie. I think there is a thread already started around here somewhere for it.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
James

Well a plane with holes in it is bad, from what I've seen in movies. Even the smallest hole can cause de-pressurization?

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Vicefan7777

As a World War 2 history buff,  I can tell all the Japanese Zero was a thin skin plane built for speed and agility.  Pilot protection was not a concern by the manufactures.  Also the Zero had a flaw in the fuel tank area.  One good shot could make the plane a fireball.  But as the story is written the pilot died from a bullet wound to the head.  Is the story true?  I do not know but I admit it is possible.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
DeepCover333

Well a plane with holes in it is bad, from what I've seen in movies. Even the smallest hole can cause de-pressurization?

 

I am no aviation expert, but I think the air pressure only becomes an issue above certain altitudes. For example, consider the old WW1 fighter planes,which had open air cockpits. 

 

As a World War 2 history buff,  I can tell all the Japanese Zero was a thin skin plane built for speed and agility.  Pilot protection was not a concern by the manufactures.  Also the Zero had a flaw in the fuel tank area.  One good shot could make the plane a fireball.  But as the story is written the pilot died from a bullet wound to the head.  Is the story true?  I do not know but I admit it is possible.

 

Yes, Vicefan777, I have studied a bit on WW2 as well and those Zeros were deathtraps! Fascinating stuff.

I am of the opinion that a bullet in the placed in a particular spot can disrupt most anything, although the chances seem incredibly slim when it comes to accuracy, especially with a hand gun.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Stinger390X

Hollywood has really blown this depresurrization thing out of balance!

 

You can fly up to 10000 feet without need of oxygen. After that it is advised to use it but not necessary until you reach above 20000. Small aircraft like Cessnas and Pipers can fly up to 10000 no problem but after that you really SHOULD use Oxgen as you can suffer from a couple of things like Hypoxia (lack of oxygen) and Flicker Vertigo -  becoming hypnotized by the turning of the propeller and sun glaring off it and the flashes do you in at high altitudes.

 

In WWII most planes only flew in the stratoshphere where oxygen was present until the high altitude bombing raids began in the latter part of 43'. Planes were then outfitted with oxygen for breathing but the planes were not pressurized because of the expense and because of the open windows for the gunners.

 

It's not like the present day airliners that have heat and pressure at 28000, and stupid movies like airport that show guys being sucked out of a window after a bomb blast. It's nice Hollywood but really isn't that intense, so a gunshot in a modern airplane will definitely depressurize, but won't suck a human through a straw to the exterior of the craft. That is just pure nonsense!

 

A gunshot would definitely cause problems if it hits any of the hydraulics lines....

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Kavinsky

I finally saw Spectre today, and I just happened to read this minutes before I walked into the theater, haha. So I was anxiously awaiting this scene. I'm tempted to give a review of the movie. I think there is a thread already started around here somewhere for it.

 

Please dont remind me of specter lol

 

 

with the story its more than plausable, in both cases, WW2 and Vice, here was an M1911 .45 ACP and the old saying was they all fall to ball, (military ball ammo) and a heavier bullet at a lower velocity does the job far better than a light bullet at a higher velocity

 

as 9mm is only 124 vs 230 grains, and 35 vs 45 width wise, and with nato ammo it suffers from overpenetration with the 9mm, while the .45 never did.

 

so it would more than go through it in the right spot, and the Main Thing I found out about the M1911 was that its quite the point shooter, literally point and shoot without looking down the sights.

 

 

as the rear sight pin on my colt national match kept coming out last week, and its the first time I shot the gun in about a couple of years. which prompted me to just say F it and fire off hand at clay's, clay pigeons, rapid fire at 25 yars off hand on the range without looking

 

and I took out 3 and got damn close with the remaining 4 rounds in the magazine

 

 

mind you they were on a dirt pile, not like that, and that is not me.

 

so an M1911 could very well do that along with a pilot in a hurry, its why they fought tooth over nail to keep the thing back then when they were told they were going to have to switch over to that pea shooter round in a gun that cant take 9mm overpressurized 9mm nato ammo in the 1980's, and hence why Jeff Cooper was keen on posing an alternative to it at that time period.

 

along with everyone else.

 

 

and with the 10mm with sonny shooting at the helicopter, its only about 30 or 40 yards up and stationary, or only somewhat moving, and the 10mm is basically a .41 magnum revolver like cartridge, as the balistics are about roughly the same.

 

so just imagine Dirty Harry shooting at it

 

 

and its not an armored aircraft, its just a regular helicopter, and if you hit anything that runs the blades, god help ya if your inside the damn thing, although they have quite the protective roll cage in them.

 

plus 180 to 230 grains, far more than a 9mm, if anything the aircraft shooting at the end of freefall was less believable, but he did have an MP5 set on full auto mode.

 

also the .38 super and the .357 magnum, lesser cartridges to the 10mm were designed to go through steel car bodies back in the 1930's, and its believed that they stay flat trajectory wise up to and past a 100 yards.

 

so a 10mm should have no problem, and this is  something that the .38 special, and 9mm can not do in the old loadings, along with double OO buckshot for a 12 GA, just ask the FBI

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1986_FBI_Miami_shootout

 

 

pitty the FBI never read Elmer Keiths six guns as you need rifles when dealing with that kinda job

 

 

although that caused a rather interesting Conundrum recently, they passed an FBI standard penetration thing for the 86' shootout, 13 inches of penetration (please no jokes with that one) and 9mm and .380 have reached that standard in self protection ammo now.

 

and as a result the FBI are going BACK to 9mm now. although knowing them its purely a cost thing, as glocks are cheaper than sigs. and .40's need to be built right to last while 9's dont.

 

truth of the matter is, if you want to go through metal or something tough, you need above 9mm in the bullet game,

 

https://www.gunsamerica.com/blog/woman-hit-by-bullet-ricocheting-off-armadillo-proof-of-9mm-inferiority/

 

and the FBI switched to a 147 grain load for that very reason in 86'. as the standard was 115 for a Walther P38 WW2 vintage and 124 for most auto's

 

and my father personally bounced a .35 caliber .38 special bullet off of a coke bottle back in the 1950's with a smith model 52, with a flat wadcutter out of a semi automatic

 

So sonny was smart enough to know that

 

 

 

 

James bond however was not, and he would have only maybe graised that helicopter a few times and he would have gotten away.

 

both with the..... jesus I dont even wanna say anymore as I just think of this now

 

22305568756_4690f740fb_o.jpg

 

I found this in investors buisness daily newspaper and well my reaction was close to this when I saw it

 

 

buzzwords; PPK, River, smug and Asshole FYI lol.

 

hell he's emoting better for this than he did for the Frigging movie lol but basically no way in hell would he hit the engine in the dark like that

 

and he hit one of the jet blades too, they made it look like it went in and broke a blade on the engine which caused the crash, and he did that from the ground?

 

and all I can think of is Patrick Macnee in the avengers going No no and no. with a rifle maybe but that no. and atleast the movie makers of the Pierce and Moore era were respectful enough of their audiences to have him pick up a rifle at the nearest possible convenience in their movies, to justify his outlandish actions and gunplay heavy scenes.

 

and even in NCIS, during the Bellesiario era they had gibbs shooting at a helicoper with a .30 - 30 rifle with a bent rear sight, which is entirely possible if your good, and Lucky enough, and provided your a maniac who has no concience about where the bullets will land if you miss if its in a crowded area like bond did twice in that movie.

 

 

 

and actually some Crazy SOB in the farmlands dropped the Red Barron with a rifle just like that back in WW1, as he was flying back low and slow and someone got'em on a way back from a fight.

 

the strangest bit wasnt that he had a premonition that he was going to die a few days earlier

Edited by Kavinsky
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Vice Immersion

Well a plane with holes in it is bad, from what I've seen in movies. Even the smallest hole can cause de-pressurization?

 

Hollywood has really blown this depresurrization thing out of balance!

 

You can fly up to 10000 feet without need of oxygen. After that it is advised to use it but not necessary until you reach above 20000. Small aircraft like Cessnas and Pipers can fly up to 10000 no problem but after that you really SHOULD use Oxgen as you can suffer from a couple of things like Hypoxia (lack of oxygen) and Flicker Vertigo -  becoming hypnotized by the turning of the propeller and sun glaring off it and the flashes do you in at high altitudes.

 

In WWII most planes only flew in the stratoshphere where oxygen was present until the high altitude bombing raids began in the latter part of 43'. Planes were then outfitted with oxygen for breathing but the planes were not pressurized because of the expense and because of the open windows for the gunners.

 

It's not like the present day airliners that have heat and pressure at 28000, and stupid movies like airport that show guys being sucked out of a window after a bomb blast. It's nice Hollywood but really isn't that intense, so a gunshot in a modern airplane will definitely depressurize, but won't suck a human through a straw to the exterior of the craft. That is just pure nonsense!

 

A gunshot would definitely cause problems if it hits any of the hydraulics lines....

Just to add with what Stinger said, the higher the altitude, the less air pressure there is, and makes it more difficult for human body to obtain fresh oxygen from the atmosphere since there is less pressure going into the lungs and the numerous alveoli (the place where oxygen and carbon dioxide exchange occurs) .  One example is how in Mt. Everest the air is so thin (or pressure is so small) that overexertion in mountain climbing can lead to altitude sickness and even death in some cases.  It's why the commercial jetliners are pressured, being at an altitude of 30,000 feet; when that pressure is lost, why oxygen masks drop immediately to prevent hypoxia.

 

So if there is a tiny hole of depressurization, gradually people will find themselves more exhausted over time (and feel the temperature drop because of the colder environment) and find their breathing rate increase, but before it reaches that stage, the air pressure sensors within the cabin would activate and release the oxygen masks.  But as Stinger mentioned, nothing as extreme as being sucked out like a vacuum cleaner.

 

If you want more info about it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cabin_pressurization

Edited by Vice Immersion

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Kavinsky

Just to add with what Stinger said, the higher the altitude, the less air pressure there is, and makes it more difficult for human body to obtain fresh oxygen from the atmosphere since there is less pressure going into the lungs and the numerous alveoli (the place where oxygen and carbon dioxide exchange occurs) .  One example is how in Mt. Everest the air is so thin (or pressure is so small) that overexertion in mountain climbing can lead to altitude sickness and even death in some cases.  It's why the commercial jetliners are pressured, being at an altitude of 30,000 feet; when that pressure is lost, why oxygen masks drop immediately to prevent hypoxia.

 

So if there is a tiny hole of depressurization, gradually people will find themselves more exhausted over time (and feel the temperature drop because of the colder environment) and find their breathing rate increase, but before it reaches that stage, the air pressure sensors within the cabin would activate and release the oxygen masks.  But as Stinger mentioned, nothing as extreme as being sucked out like a vacuum cleaner.

 

If you want more info about it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cabin_pressurization

 

 

 I didnt say this but I think I know what the source of this was

 

 

and we are talking about the same movie where they strapped .30 call's to an aston martin after all lol

Edited by Kavinsky
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
damrod

Planes and helos are fragile things.  Lucky hit in the right spot and thats it.  In Vietnam a Phantom took one hit.  Just happened to be in the only junction box that controlled all the hydraulic fluid and when it all drained out, they had to bail. Of course they redesigned the aircraft so that that would not happen again.  Hit a turbine in the wrong spot and there goes the engine.  They used to duct tape metal nuts in jet intakes to destroy the engine.  Crack the transmission and  out goes the fluid and locks it up.

Of course this crew and helo survivedoh_58_1.jpg

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
timm525

Hollywood has really blown this depresurrization thing out of balance!

 

You can fly up to 10000 feet without need of oxygen. After that it is advised to use it but not necessary until you reach above 20000. Small aircraft like Cessnas and Pipers can fly up to 10000 no problem but after that you really SHOULD use Oxgen as you can suffer from a couple of things like Hypoxia (lack of oxygen) and Flicker Vertigo -  becoming hypnotized by the turning of the propeller and sun glaring off it and the flashes do you in at high altitudes.

 

In WWII most planes only flew in the stratoshphere where oxygen was present until the high altitude bombing raids began in the latter part of 43'. Planes were then outfitted with oxygen for breathing but the planes were not pressurized because of the expense and because of the open windows for the gunners.

 

It's not like the present day airliners that have heat and pressure at 28000, and stupid movies like airport that show guys being sucked out of a window after a bomb blast. It's nice Hollywood but really isn't that intense, so a gunshot in a modern airplane will definitely depressurize, but won't suck a human through a straw to the exterior of the craft. That is just pure nonsense!

 

A gunshot would definitely cause problems if it hits any of the hydraulics lines....

Mythbusters did a ep on this a long time ago. The result was not dramatic at all!!

I think that was the same ep as the sucking your insides out from sitting on the vacuum toilet.

Both were busted.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Kavinsky

Mythbusters? I'll never forgive them for ruining this

 

 

as the worst thing someone can do is ruin the illusion and immersion of a film by yelling hey you cant do that! he're ill show you and prove it!

 

that's not the point! its one thing if its excessively stupid and insulting, its another when its something fun and well loved. also some of the trick shooters could really do this too!

Edited by Kavinsky
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

Sign in to follow this