The world is what you make it

[Viceman Cometh]

Well Tony, I've never lied about the fact that one of the things I admire most about you is that I'm not much like you, but wish I could be.Instead, I'm left with my messy emotions and occasional fits of rage. Can't help it.

[Richie Rich]

Will people ever forgive & forget :confused:

Yes, I can.I hereby forgive the empty building over there, which has a few lost souls wandering around inside of it, wishing they could find their way out. I will offer them a light to show them the way to our doorstep, and welcome them inside. Then I will petition the Miami-Dade Zoning Board to shut down the empty building, seeing how it has reached the end of it's useful life, and the energy put forth to maintain it should be applied elsewhere (like here, for instance).Amen.

[COOPER&BURNETT]

"Good intentions" TONY?They have PUBLICLY refused to hide my section over there after I asked, even after FERRARIMAN had the class, and courtesy enough to hide Ricks when he asked.They have REMOVED the edit key in the scrapbook section so I can't add or modify my own threads. (Didn't you notice tony?) "Good intentions huh? What have I done wrong to deserve that? I posted over 8 thousand posts, and and three thousand photos to help out the site. Jim Z. left.People were banned. Promises have not been fulfilled. (are you enjoying all the wonderful changes promised to you?)It was taken by force. Posts were deleted.Members insulted.You've got things backward Tony."Hate the sin, and love the sinner". We believe this too. What I've found is that mistakenly, it makes people think that those with that view are weak, will lay down and let people walk on you. (GOD doesn't have that view, your interpreting it wrong) I assure you, I have that view, but I'm anything but weak. I remember. ....I never forget. ("Forgive and forget" as you put it doesn't fly)P.S. What MIAMI VICE specific topics are LMD and Gstien writing? I'd like to know.

[Ferrariman]

No matter what you think of the owners' date=' they originally had good intentions of saving .org from Randolph's neglect, until the rift with Ferrariman.[/quote']Once again your good nature shines through Tony but I'm not buying it. They knew exactly what they were doing. Randolph? he proved to be no better. The man was nowhere to be found for literally years! he didn't even have the courtesy to return my e-mails and yet when the new owners needed help he was right there! And as far as their rift with me, you can pin that one on them too! All they had to say was "We want to run the site ourself" and none of this would've happened but call me a liar and a thief and the gloves come off!

Little Miss Dangerous' date=' Maynard, Gstien are still posting. Yes, Rick, Srobak & even Pierre- Philippe are back & everyone has been behaving like intelligent adults. [/quote']With all due respect to those mentioned I will again ask C&B's question. What Vice related things have they posted lately? As for RB & srobak, neither of them have even been on the site since February.

There are 2 sides to every story' date=' and people on .org also see themselves as "victims."[/quote']Don't make me laugh with that one. Obviously you don't know both sides but you are leaning to one side more than the other. Your good nature has allowed you to be snowed Tony!

[Tony D.]

Viceman, I forgive and accept your occasional fits of rage. :)Richie Rich, I'm still wandering the empty halls of .org, hoping for a revival......but I do like this site & am finding good topics here.Coop, if the site was taken by force means T & M are paying the bills to keep it afloat since Randolph was among the missing, then that is a good thing. Why they didn't delete your posts, I don't know. You added so much to that site, they probably didn't want to give it all up.......but they should, because it is YOURS! I don't see your section anymore, though. I think the banned people can return......if they want to. T & M felt the whole format of .org was copied & pasted here, without copyright permission. Now this may be true or false, but that is my thought on why Lou was dropped as moderator. I may be wrong, but that is the real reason for all the hard feelings. I'm sure Lou didn't do it maliciously....but it would take a lot of communication to repair the damage. I would like to see everyone at peace again, but it may never happen. I can't help it, I used to be a steward for CWA union & the goal was good relations between labor & management.

[COOPER&BURNETT]

T & M felt the whole format of .org was copied & pasted here' date=' without copyright permission. Now this may be true or false, but that is my thought on why Lou was dropped as moderator. I may be wrong, but that is the real reason for all the hard feelings. I'm sure Lou didn't do it maliciously....but it would take a lot of communication to repair the damage. [/quote']Do, or do you not remember that we felt we had to move thinking the site was only paid up to a certain time, and .org may close. Randolph would not return emails. What were we to do? There was no copyright infringement, because FERRARIMAN ran it, and we tried to save what we could before it was gone forever.We tried to salvage as much as we could to preserve it thinking .org would be gone.They kept .org going, and then accused FERRARIMAN for stealing stuff (AFTER the fact) that was brought over in anticipation of it's shutdown.Remember Tony?Don't fall for this. You have been lied to, played, and you continute to believe the lies. "BANNED PEOPLE CAN RETURN IF THEY WANT TO????O.K., ........FERRARIMAN, VICECHIC84, return. THIS I gotta see. Tony says it's o.k. ....you just have to want to.

[COOPER&BURNETT]

"Good intentions" TONY?They have PUBLICLY refused to hide my section over there after I asked' date=' even after FERRARIMAN had the class, and courtesy enough to hide Ricks when he asked.They have REMOVED the edit key in the scrapbook section so I can't add or modify my own threads. (Didn't you notice tony?) "Good intentions huu? What have I done wrong to deserve that? I posted over 8 thousand posts, and and three thousand photos to help out the site. Jim Z. left.People were bannned. Promises have not been fulfilled. (are you enjoying all the wonderful changes promised to you?)It was taken by force. Posts were deleted.Members insulted.You've got things backward Tony."Hate the sin, and love the sinner". We believe this too. What I've found is that mistakenly, it makes people think that those with that view are weak, will lay down and let people walk on you. (GOD doesn't have that view, your interpreting it wrong) I assure you, I have that view, but I'm anything but weak. I remember. ....I never forget. ("Forgive and forget" as you put it doesn't fly)P.S. What MIAMI VICE specific topics are LMD and Gstien writing? I'd like to know.[/quote']Re-read this TONY.

[Tony D.]

Lou I just read your reply. I am not siding with them because as you said I don't know all the details on both sides. I actually thought we were passed all the bad feelings & discussions the sites would just co-exist. There are new members there who are asking questions about MV but they are not getting very good answers so they will most likely drop out. I am a firm believer in making things right with people if I offended them intentionally or not. If they think I did wrong, I will fix it if they're right or let them know if I was misjudged. It's my nature.

[COOPER&BURNETT]

But WE need to "forgive and forget" as you put it, right TONY?

[Tony D.]

Coop, yes I know Lou was copying everything because we all thought .org was closing in Oct. & this would be the next stop. Only, Tifany doesn't see it that way, probably because .org is still running & they are paying the bills. I couldn't convince her at the time, of Lou's reasons, so I just dropped the issue. To straighten everything out & fix misconceptions, there has to be a willingness on both sides to talk but everyone seems content with the present situation. There should be a language translator also.

[agent 47]

Lou I just read your reply. I am not siding with them because as you said I don't know all the details on both sides. I actually thought we were passed all the bad feelings & discussions the sites would just co-exist. There are new members there who are asking questions about MV but they are not getting very good answers so they will most likely drop out. I am a firm believer in making things right with people if I offended them intentionally or not. If they think I did wrong' date=' I will fix it if they're right or let them know if I was misjudged. It's my nature.[/quote']Tony, I am going to write something that is not said much on this site, it might get deleted later but..... Miami-Vice.org screwed over everyone who was over there, they broke into my profile, deleted some of my pms, changed my password tons of times without my permission, then had the nerve to say I was at fault when I told them I was leaving, I was stupid enought o go back there, wondering if they fixed the problem, nope, they tried again, we had a big showdown when I tried to sting them with a "dummy" profile, I identified that the loser administrator was the culprit, I challenged him, deleted my profile personals, and left for good. Tony, they HATE us, they've threatened and demeaned to push their dictator rules on everybody else, STOP this "Oh, I was a t fault over something" No! They hate us, they would be glad to see us destroyed, whatever you do, don't go groveling back to them and sucking up to them, they are just a bunch of crooked gangsters and doesn't deserve to stay in existence, just let the dominoes fall and watch them fade out. You are NOT at fault, Tony, they are, they are just a bunch of racketeers masquerading as Miami Vice fans.

[Ferrariman]

I think the banned people can return......if they want to.

Wow, Earth to Tony! Seriously, I want you to PM Tifany, martijn and srobak. Give them the same "let's bury the hatchet" routine you give us and ask them if I can come back. They all have my e-mail, I'll be waiting for the invitation.

[Vicechic84]

If you're vying for the job of Mediator here I suggest you stick to playing your guitar. Tony d. could you please just finally stuff a sock in it!I've idly sat by watching this thread unfold (peacefully until now) and I've promised myself that I wasn't going to reply (until now, yes I was prompted too!). I've read about as much gibberish as I can take. First, it started with 'Lost Our Passion' and now this?! I've read enough!This thread was created 3 weeks ago and just now it caught your attention? Well, you should learn to leave well enough alone since you're fighting a losing battle here. The wounds are obviously still fresh, the damage has been done and yes it's beyond repair. Absolutely nothing you say could and would ever change the events that unfolded.As stated in the Oxford American Dictionary, the word 'victim' means "to suffer ill treatment". That of which many a member here (previously on org) has had done to them. Those that are the so called 'victims' there aren't. Thus, the meaning 'bully' comes out loud and clear which means "a person or persons that uses his/their strength or power to hurt or frighten others." Therefore, bullies (over there) are not victims at all since they've inflicted plenty of pain on unsuspecting victims here. Viceman Cometh's opening line in his thread is based on being a victim (one of a whole slew of). It was far from unkind and untrue. It was dead on!The new owners intentions were far from good. It's always been about a power struggle (in fact that was even mentioned by good ol' Tif herself in a post she made when all this was unfolding) and not about the good of the site and it's members. Randolph was MIA for years (and Ferrariman has all the unanswered e-mails to prove it) up until coincidentially the torch was passed to T & M.The whole story (while it was unfolding) was posted out for all to see (and post freely too) months ago. You too must have seen it Tony unless you are in need of a language translator.The thugs that you mentioned over there, well I can't really call them that now can I considering there's no one to bitch slap for their personal enjoyment so I'll just leave that one out.As for the handful that are still posting (aside from PMing each other) the MV Social Lounge, Strange News and Welcome Trainees sections are not really considered fountains of MV information related.And of course all have been behaving (those currently in charge and their cohorts) because once again there's no one (new or old) to fight (or interact) with. Yes, even Pierre-Phillip is resorting to playing MV trivia all by his lonesome again. Tsk-tsk!Coop kindly asked that his section be hidden (just like RB requested and Lou did) over there. Only thing that Coop's request was publically refused. They even went as far as to remove any 'edit/modification' key to eliminate any removal of his own posts. All this after an enormous contribution to that site!Censorship is living loud and proud (and thriving) there! Vive le' censorship on org!Speaking as someone who was banned, I have it on good authority that NO ONE that's removed (aside from the members that were banned by the previous moderator) EVER have their status REVERSED!And lastly, don't bother quoting religion Tony because I could clearly say, "Do unto others as they do unto you". Let us not forget the biggie "You reap what you sow!"Oh and don't let the door hit you on the way out! Can I get an 'Amen'? AMEN!!!!

[Ferrariman]

Coop' date=' yes I know Lou was copying everything because we all thought .org was closing in Oct. & this would be the next stop. Only, Tifany doesn't see it that way, probably because .org is still running & they are paying the bills.[/quote']One more time for those not paying attention. The basic layout of the forum was copied (not copied & pasted) by the site owners here. They asked me if they should make it like .org and I said yes. (guilty as charged) The only topic I copied and pasted was Jim Zubiena's at his request. So please stop saying I was copying everything. I've already been accused once! If anyone else chose to copy their stuff here that's their business.And what is this obsession with "copyrighted" material? I suggest that all involved over there read the definition of copywritten material.Tony, in closing, I'd just like to remind you that this topic had pretty much gone dormant until you stirred it up again.

[rodriguezisdead]

Tony, when things started to go crazy over on .org I sent you a pm about my opinion when you asked me for it - sadly it looks like that has been deleted from my mail over there. I wish I still had it, it'd save me time now...Briefly I made some points that I'm not sure I saw others make on this whole issue - as I recall...1 - Firstly, let's stop raising the issue of 'paying the bills' - do you have any idea of how much it costs to run a website? Something like a forum is actually surprisingly little - we're certainly not talking thousands of pounds/dollars per year - we're talking hundreds, if that - I know because I have various sites of my own. So let's not pretend that there's a huge amount invested by whoever's 'paying the bills'.2 - Even if we want to talk about 'paying the bills' being a significant issue, then I'm afraid to say 'they' have it completely wrong about this being the 'only thing that matters' - one of them (I can't remember which one of those idiots it was) banged on about the one who paid the bills having the final say. I'm sorry this is a completely erroneous notion. These large forums on the net are unregulated - this is the basic problem - no international law rules them so we're pretty much left to our own devices - most websites settle for a self-regulated model with moderators. If there was a Law ruling over it however, then you could liken a large forum like this to a Public Limited Company (PLC) and its moderators would be akin to senior managers or directors (rather than the shareholders who effectively 'pay the bills').But the point is in a PLC a senior manager or member of the Board can not be sacked without recourse to what other Board members and what the 'rules' of that company have to say about it. That's how businesses regulate themselves and that is what is internationally accepted as a fair model.Compare this to what happened to Lou - hardly a 'fair' dismissal was it? By ANY standards.3 - Forget the Law, let's look at the ethics - as a religious man Tony you'll know very well about this side - I too am a religious man but I differ with you here - to me there is a clear injustice here and the perpetrators of it are well known - none of them are over here by the way.If I ask anyone who shares Tony's emotions on this issue to consider one thing from this boring post, it is simply this: Do you remember the cowardly, vile, base messages that Lou received from 'them' (and which he posted on .org before they deleted them - but too late, we had seen them and the damage was done by then as the truth was out) ? Do you remember the LANGUAGE Tony? Do you ever see that kind of language from ANY of your decent friends? Forget friends, ANY decent HUMAN BEING?I rest my case.It's all very sad but I have gone public now on this finally after having kept quiet for longer than I care to mention. The guys over on .org brought this all upon themselves and it's sad, but personally I have no remorse and simply no time for that kind of behaviour. Trust me, I should know, I've wasted hundreds of hours on other websites many years ago learning about how these arguments on forums end up, hence I seldom get involved, but this one's gone far enough.These kinds of arguments are only ever about power and control - and bullies usually do whatever it takes to wrest it from others. Sadly it's the silent majority as always that suffers at the hands of the extremists. There was so much good material on .org and all that investment of peoples' time, effort, and passion has so unneccessarily now been wasted. So we start at scratch over here and hope that things don't repeat on .ws... so far no complaints from me at least.

[Richie Rich]

I can't help it ...

Tony - I personally hope you never change, and hereby elect you Peacemaker of The World (OK - maybe just Peacemaker of Major MV Related Websites Vying For The Same Audience).But - I still hope that you will choose to stop wandering the halls of that empty building. What purpose does it serve to keep going there? It's a useless shell of what it used to be. I say goodbye and there's my badge - if you want to pick it up. I've thrown it down and turned my back on it. Bye bye.

[COOPER&BURNETT]

Tony.Will you let them know about these posts on this thread and betray us? I think you will.If anything odd, or out of the ordinary happens, We'll know you did.By the way, who's the current resident MIAMI VICE expert over there? I don't really recall what in depth MIAMI VICE expertise came from the new owners, do you?WE were .org.The Trivia experts, Jan Hammer experts, Cast and Crew/blazers and clothing experts, in depth knowledge experts, Daytona experts, Stinger experts, and many others are..........here.

[COOPER&BURNETT]

TONY.I have removed your name from my list of "friends" in my profile until further notice until I have determined where you stand.I have 69 friends (68 now) in my friends profile.

[Tony D.]

This is unbelievable! I saw this thread for the first time today, wasted hours of my time trying to bring some good will between the sites and all I accomplished was to stir up anger & hatred towards myself. I wasn't accusing anyone here of wrongdoing. ........so I will take your advice & drop the subject. I'll still do the DVD Reviews if you want and don't worry, I will definitely not tell anyone on .org about all the hatred I saw on here! I don't betray anyone, certainly not my former "friends." I think I finally learned my lesson.....Mind my own business & keep my opinions to myself!

[COOPER&BURNETT]

I will definitely not tell anyone on .org about all the hatred I saw on here! I don't betray anyone' date=' certainly not my former "friends." [/quote']Time will tell TONY. Time will tell.

[Ferrariman]

FINALLY!Tony I think most of your problem is that your posts were all based on assumptions, heresay and not knowing all the facts. Believe me, I DO know what happened, most others do too! It wasn't pretty and it will not soon be forgotten or forgiven. I hope the beating you took today taught you not to bring it up again.

[Viceman Cometh]

I would hope that everyone is welcome here. Especially someone with such a rich history of fandom as TD.

I thought it was worth repeating.

[COOPER&BURNETT]

For now, I suggest we leave this topic alone for a while, and let things calm down.No more posts here for a while.

[Viceman Cometh]

Yes NASA.

[Richie Rich]

Roger that, Mission Control.