Ferrariman

Problems With the Blu-Ray Release!

463 posts in this topic

3 hours ago, bodie said:

Thanks e236....

You're welcome!

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Posted (edited)

On 4/5/2017 at 1:42 PM, Sonny-Burnett said:

OK so after working with the scanner/printer a bit I now can scan but not print.  I have scanned all 3 discs onto 2 photos. I can either upload to photobucket and link them here, or I can transcribe the codes as I see them. Which do you prefer?

Edit: on second thought, after uploading to Photobucket I don't think the resolution is sufficient for you to be able to see/transcribe the codes. So I will attempt to list them here:

S1DI:   OUTER BAND:  IFPILV80          (598811)   63260DO1R1    O1E     010001

             INNER BAND:  IFPILV80           (598812)   63260D01R1    O1E      020001

S1D4:  OUTER BAND:  IFPILV79           (598814)   63260D04R1    O1E      040001

            INNER BAND:   IFPILV79            (598815)   63260D04R1    01E       050001  

S4D4:  OUTER BAND:  IFPILV80            (600161)   6326OD16R1   O1E      020001 

             INNER BAND:  IFPILV80            (600162)    63260D16R1    O1E     020001

Hope this helps......

 

Okay just to be sure, the above discs are:

1. The only ones with problems?

2. Those codes are the only ones with no problems?

They got my discs from walmart.com, and the numbers on S1D1 start with 592. 

Forgive me if this has already been covered, but this thread is quite overwhelming. 

Edited by Dadrian

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Posted (edited)

Okay, so we just watched "Smugglers Blues". Incredible improvement over the DVDs! That alone would be worth $35 for me. I watched it in 2.0 stereo. No issues to report there. 

The VHS recording I had was not so great either, so it this episode felt all new to me in many ways. 

Speaking of the audio: 

Does anyone know if the Blu Ray 2.0 audio is the same channels/ mix as the original broadcasts? Once again, my apologies if this has already been discussed.  

Edited by Dadrian

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Posted (edited)

On 6/28/2017 at 10:55 PM, Dadrian said:

Okay, so we just watched "Smugglers Blues". Incredible improvement over the DVDs! That alone would be worth $35 for me. I watched it in 2.0 stereo. No issues to report there. 

The VHS recording I had was not so great either, so it this episode felt all new to me in many ways.

Just watched "Glades". Exact same vast improvement here! :thumbsup:

Edited by Dadrian

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On ‎6‎/‎28‎/‎2017 at 5:13 PM, Dadrian said:

Okay just to be sure, the above discs are:

1. The only ones with problems?

2. Those codes are the only ones with no problems?

They got my discs from walmart.com, and the numbers on S1D1 start with 592. 

Forgive me if this has already been covered, but this thread is quite overwhelming. 

These codes are on the Replacement Discs sent to me by Mill Creek with the corrected audio. @bodie asked me to post these codes on the assumption that they would match the Discs sent out in the Corrected complete set when they were available. I do not know if that was done.  I would still suggest checking your discs for the known issues summarized several times in here (by me and others).

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Posted (edited)

On 30/06/2017 at 4:28 AM, Dadrian said:

Just watched "Glades". Exact same vast improvement here! :thumbsup:

"Glades" and "Smuggler's Blues" look great on the blu rays- but they didn't have any audio issues did they originally?

If I remember correctly the audio issues were on "Heart of Darkness" , "Great McCarthy" , "Home Invaders",  "Nobody Lives Forever" and "Evan"  - all others were fine :hippie:

Edited by Matt5

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6 hours ago, Matt5 said:

"Glades" and "Smuggler's Blues" look great on the blu rays- but they didn't have any audio issues did they originally?

Not that I know of. 

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Posted (edited)

On ‎4‎/‎3‎/‎2017 at 1:52 PM, Sonny-Burnett said:

With all credit to @ivoryjones, forum.blu-ray.com, and http://www.tvshowsondvd.com/news/Miami-Vice-The-Complete-Series/22775 for identifying the Mill Creek Blu-ray disc issues, they are as follows:

S1D1  & S1D4 issues (according to Mill Creek) with 5.1 audio: 

  • "Heart of Darkness"
    • The 5.1 audio track does have issues in the mix creating an echo/reverb-like effect that phases in and out periodically throughout the episode.
  • "The Home Invaders"
  • "Nobody Lives Forever"
    • The 5.1 DTS-HD Master Audio tracks were accidentally left-off the disc after we conducted the original QC
  • "Evan"
    • The 5.1 audio track does have issues in the mix creating an echo/reverb-like effect that phases in and out periodically throughout the episode.

S4D4  "Mirror Image" has no sound on 2.0 stereo audio track. (added later in the disc replacement program)

S2D3: "Definitely Miami", 10 seconds blank on 2.0 (Stereo) track, starting at 42'41''  ( the song “Cry” by Godley and Crème should be playing. ).

           NOTE**: Mill Creek today rejected making this fix because they apparently received a bad master.

 

For anyone who hasn't read back through this thread, here again is a summary of known issues with the Mill Creek Blu-ray set. The only issue not addressed via replacement discs is the last one, the missing 10 seconds of stereo audio on Definitely Miami, which is a disappointment to me because I do play the Stereo track.

Edited by Sonny-Burnett
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Thanks, S-B. I also play the stereo track for authenticity's sake. In checking that 10 second gap on the Blu Ray 5.1 tracks of "DM", I noticed you can still hear it drop out on the L and R channels, as well. Why couldn't they have made this error on "Missing Hours" or some other not-so-great episode?

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8 hours ago, Dadrian said:

Not that I know of. 

No they are cool :hippie:

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Yes that's good info - I have replacement discs for all those episodes 

However the "Mirror Image" doesn't bother me to much as watch in 5.1 usually :hippie:

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On 03/07/2017 at 2:22 PM, Sonny-Burnett said:

These codes are on the Replacement Discs sent to me by Mill Creek with the corrected audio. @bodie asked me to post these codes on the assumption that they would match the Discs sent out in the Corrected complete set when they were available. I do not know if that was done.  I would still suggest checking your discs for the known issues summarized several times in here (by me and others).

Yeah, they are correct and relevant, and to add to that, there's these indicators too;

On 07/06/2017 at 11:38 PM, bodie said:

You can easily identify which Mill Creek discs you have by the hub codes posted for us earlier by Sonny-Burnett and that the corrected discs have a black code underneath the disc number e.g. Season One Disc One on the label side. The original faulty discs have no code number under that text on the discs.

In answer to Ferrariman, there is no error free set, even though both the sets in the US and UK now have corrected discs, errors remain that neither company has addressed. If you are looking for best yet rather than perfect, just get whichever set is cheapest for you and make sure you get the corrected discs. Or wait it out for a better release down the line from another company :)

 

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On 20/06/2017 at 1:34 AM, bodie said:

Great price on the Mill Creek Blu-ray set at amazon, $35.67 - don't know if it will be the corrected stock, but easy enough to check (codes etc. in this thread) and send off for the corrected discs if not :)

Even lower now, $30.11

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Posted (edited)

I recorded Vice on Beta during the latter part of season 1. I recorded it on VHS when it aired on USA Network around 1989. I bought "Prodigal Son" on VHS around 2000. I bought the DVDs 2 yrs ago. Just received the Mill Creek set from Amazon. Crazy how long I've enjoyed Miami Vice. My set had the corrected discs. 

I've only scanned a few episodes. The first few episodes were slightly disappointing. I need to look at them again. The picture improves as the season moves on. "Smuggler's Blues" on DVD was so dark. This blu ray version is gorgeous!  I'm mostly happy with the image quality. What's up with "Prodigal Son" though?  It took a few steps backward to me. 

If another company came out with an improved set, I'd buy it but I wonder is it technologically possible to do better than what we have. Yes mixups in audio could be fixed but can the picture be improved much? My tv allows me to save different picture settings so I'm trying to make one simply for Vice.   Just adjusting one setting like black detail  made a noticeable difference to me.  First pic is with no black detail & the second has it turned on. Creates deeper blacks but I think I prefer the first pic.  These were just taken with my phone. 

IMG_8629.JPG

IMG_8630.JPG

Edited by Noggie
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Yeah it could look better, because only Brother's Keeper is a complete remaster - the others are older HD transfers, not brand new ones fully remastered to the best they could be. See comparison between the old and new Brother's Keeper below, and those are just DVD comparisons between the new and old masters, the Blu-ray is much sharper, but you can see on DVD how much better the full remaster is*

However, as you say, the Blu-rays whilst not all full remasters like Brother's Keeper, are still the best the episodes have looked, and probably ever will look, at this stage in the game; with so many people now just downloading in one way or another, or streaming - none of which has the data rate of reading with a blue laser.

But I very much doubt we will see every episode newly scanned and remastered like Brother's Keeper, that's a major investment and with complete series budget Blu-ray sets out for $30, the market is in totally the wrong place for the price tag fully restored new masters would need to cost on disc to make money - something like $90 per season recommended retail price. We're four or five years too late for that kind of thing in the physical market now, sadly.

*

mv_keeper_01_zpsuqdywyok.jpg~original.jpg

mv_keeper_03_zpsjkfaipyp.jpg~original.jpg

mv_keeper_04_zpsq4pj8blj.jpg~original.jpg

Edited by bodie
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On 14/07/2017 at 6:39 AM, Noggie said:

can the picture be improved much? My tv allows me to save different picture settings so I'm trying to make one simply for Vice.   Just adjusting one setting like black detail  made a noticeable difference to me.

The best way to view these is to have your player and screen do as little processing as possible, because you want to see the programme they made in the highest quality. As opposed to some arbitrary trick of the equipment which throws off the originally intended presentation. All so-called enhancement settings in screens and players are gimmicks to sell the technology. The real test of the equipment is how faithful to source they can be when all that artificial stuff is turned off - that's when you see what you're supposed to.

So in your player settings you want to set it to output at original resolution, no upscaling or telling it you have a 1080 screen. That may seem dumb, when you are playing full HD discs on an HD screen, but there is no need for the player to scale the disc, let the screen do the work. When you watch content that is 4:3 on DVD, not Blu-ray, in order to achieve the same square 4:3 image with black bars either said that Miami Vice on Blu-ray has automatically, you will need to use the aspect button on your remote to get the correct 4:3 ratio. But it will mean that all those DVDs will be as correct as the Miami Vice Blu-ray, if the player does it automatically the image you see will actually be slightly distorted and slightly too narrow. I figure that's worth mentioning as most people who watch Miami Vice have DVDs of old shows that would benefit.

Make sure neither player nor screen have any edge enhancement, noise reduction or motion filtering enabled. You may need to go through all the options on your player with the manual to check what they do - if they say they make things look better, turn them off, you do not want your player or screen's idea of what Miami Vice should look like, you want to see what the programme makers intended.

The screen should be set to something like True Cinema or equivalent, whatever your manual says is designed for dark room viewing. The levels on that setting should all be left at default, except for Sharpness which should be set to zero, so if it's a slider, all the way down until it's completely off, as that will mean no added sharpening, rather than what most people think it means; 50% on the slider is nothing and taking it lower is imposting softness, that's not right, zero on the sharpness slider means no added sharpening, so you see the actual detail of the disc.

All of that will mean that any noise in the image is original analogue film noise, not your player and screen amping that up because it thinks you'll want an artificially sharpened, smoothed or colour boosted version of what you're watching.

Screens are usually set by default to extremely heavy settings to attract attention on the showroom floor and most people never think to turn this stuff off, they just continue to use the screen in the condition it came in. It usually makes a whole world of difference taking the above steps. It may take some getting used to, if you're used to everything being artificial, but rest assured, if you leave your screen as above you will see all your TV and films, old and new, in the manner they were intended to be seen. And then when you see them all boosted to heck on other screens, that will look strange to you :)

Edited by bodie
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just edited the above to be a bit clearer :thumbsup:

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I'm still spot checking episodes. I popped "Sons and Lovers" from season 2.   At the beginning, during the action scene, you don't hear Zito yell " Crockett, Tubbs you ok".  I hear an audio glitch for a second and then Crockett yells "Don't touch the door Zito!"   I'll have to go back through this thread. Maybe this was mentioned before. 

Edited by Noggie
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I noticed that myself. I can't hear the line on either audio track.

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Academic now of course, as there won't be any more corrections issued. But it's interesting, that line is not on the recent Mill Creek DVD release (stereo or 5.1), so that looks like one where it is Universal's current master at fault. Keep hold of those old DVDs people if this stuff matters to you, is my best advice, and use the Blu-rays for what they do get right.

Edited by bodie
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I'm glad I'm not the only one who noticed the glitch. I'm just taking time to go through episodes I know the best.  I used to wear my beta tapes out back in the day so there's a good chance I'll notice missing dialogue or music.  That's an odd glitch though. 

Im pretty pleased so far. Hopefully there aren't many more issues.  I know when Time Life issued the Six Million Dollar Man box set a few years ago, they made use of fans who knew the show really well. That's what needed to be done with Vice. No better quality control than fans. 

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Absolutely, I'm sure many of us would have been delighted to have been sent checkdiscs for this series. Sadly, budget companies like Mill Creek and Fabulous operate on a shoestring budget. And quality control on this much material takes a lot of time and time is money.

Sure, Universal's masters should have been error free, so there should have been no need to do anything other than what they've done - author them onto discs. But things never go the way they are supposed to.

Which is why companies that can afford it do rigorous QC, and even then, things can slip the net; you only need to make one change to your workflow and technically you have to watch the whole thing again to make sure nothing else is out of whack... it's all time.

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20 hours ago, bodie said:

Academic now of course, as there won't be any more corrections issued. But it's interesting, that line is not on the recent Mill Creek DVD release (stereo or 5.1), so that looks like one where it is Universal's current master at fault. Keep hold of those old DVDs people if this stuff matters to you, is my best advice, and use the Blu-rays for what they do get right.

And as they say, the hits just keep on coming. :)  I suspect there will be more flaws found. I'm not that familiar with the process in creating masters. Does that mean that any new releases will also have these flaws, as well as prior releases such as the Universal DVDs? Or are these masters generated from an original print and only the subsequent  masters have the flaws?

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Yeah there are the old 35mm lo-con film copies that were struck when what went through the camera on the shoots was edited together and had a final mix. What ivoryjones has noted in such detail, is the difference between the original broadcast copies and the new masters that were struck for the DVDs, which had a very different way of handling the highs and lows of the film style, but did absolutely have a standard title sequence imposed (probably for reasons of our old friend time, in the original workflow) whereas originally as ivoryjones has shown us, they used to vary quite a bit.

This is not that unusual in remastering, it's been done for things like Star Trek and Doctor Who, where they make one remastered title sequence and apply that to all the work that used that cut, rather than spend time and thus money, doing work on the same sequences, with minor variations, for every episode - as after a while the running time for all those intros adds up to time that could have been spent working on the meat of a whole episode.

Now with High Definition, we've got new masters, but with the exception of Brother's Keeper as I was saying above, they are not full remasters, so I doubt they've taken the film out for anything but that first story. And given how similar the rest of the episodes are to the DVD colours and levels, I'd say it's very likely they have scanned whatever was the remastered source for the DVDs in 2005, as the work was recent enough that it may well have been suitable to derive the high definition picture and sound we are now seeing on Blu-ray from. If this is not the case, I cannot understand when the current masters were created, what for, and how they look identical to the DVD remasters, just higher quality. As the original film, we know, will be massively different as per the remaster of Brother's Keeper on Blu-ray.

But in that latter process we've had sound errors introduced that were not there on the 5.1 remixes on the DVDs - so it may well be that the sound had to be freshly sourced and it had to be done very quickly, missing things and introducing errors - or that it was just done in a hurry, period.

Then you have errors downstream of Universal, like Fabulous films setting the wrong black levels on their Blu-rays - that's their fault, nothing to do with the masters Universal sent them, or Mill Creek would have the same. It's just an authoring error by Fabulous, they did the same for their The Incredible Hulk series Blu-ray release.

So, as I've said all along, my hope is that another company comes along and asks Universal for a fully corrected set of masters to make their own Blu-rays from and that the Blu-ray company then do their own complete QC process to make sure everything is right with the presentation. I for one, would happily pay a higher price point for that, but if it never happens, it will be because either Universal can't supply, or no company is willing to risk it when the series is out there for $30 on Blu-ray, albeit compromised in a way that only the most dedicated are bothered by.

At least we have the DVDs to pick up any blips with the Blu-ray presentation, but really the Blu-ray should be definitive and make the DVDs redundant.

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Great explanation, Bodie!

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