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CASTRO DEAD AT 90

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Matt5
1 hour ago, Tony D. said:

I wasn't going to comment any more on Castro's death, Topic.....but since you dragged me in saying my remarks were very narrow minded and focused, I will respond.

The U.S. bombing of a hospital in Syria wasn't intentional....it was an accident!! 

Castro wanted Russia to start a nuclear war with the U.S.......fortunately Russia had more brains than Fidel.

Castro was a Communist Dictator who is responsible for many people's deaths. Thousands of Cubans in Miami are celebrating the death of this tyrant.

If you love Cuba, which is 50 yrs. behind the times for their people, go live there!

I doubt you will be able to enjoy your Stinger, over there.

You sound passionate Tony in this subject - good for you :done:

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Daytona74

 

vor 3 Stunden schrieb Tony D.:

Castro wanted Russia to start a nuclear war with the U.S.......fortunately Russia had more brains than Fidel.

That's as true as it is upsetting... on the other hand, the U.S. is to this day not only the only country that has ever used nuclear  weapons against a civilian population; during the Korean War, President Eisenhower and certain people in his administration were quite determined to use them to wipe out all major Chinese cities to subdue China. But let's really not open that can of worms.

vor 3 Stunden schrieb Tony D.:

Castro was a Communist Dictator who is responsible for many people's deaths. Thousands of Cubans in Miami are celebrating the death of this tyrant.

And let them celebrate. Castro made himself many enemies. Not  in the least among Cuban exiles. It's true that  Castro was a communist dictator. Or at least he became one in the aftermath of the revolution. Nobody says he wasn't.

vor 3 Stunden schrieb Tony D.:

If you love Cuba, which is 50 yrs. behind the times for their people, go live there!

Again with that... Cuba isn't 50 years behind the times. I don't care what Fox News spews out any given day, they're wrong. Cuba especially isn't that far behind when compared to other Latin American countries. Time didn't just suddenly stop and cease to move forward  in Cuba in 1959. And the U.S. embargo certainly didn't help speed up Cuba's development as a country. In the mean time, other countries have entered pretty interesting joint ventures with the Cuban government that really benefit the people there. Anything from liquor (Havana Club - Pernod joint venture) to car rentals (with Renault, Hyundai and Peugeot in particular) and the hotel industry (with Western hotel chains like Spain's "Sol" operating a number of hotels there). Cubans who are employed in those sectors earn a fair bit of money and are able to afford a modest middle class standard of living. If you're lucky enough to be a waiter in one of those hotels, you can make the equivalent of over US$ 3,000 a month in tips alone. THAT is something that really makes a difference in people's lives there.

And to tell you the truth, if Cuba someday begins to open up and enact actual reforms and becomes a democratic country again, I very honestly wouldn't mind living there. ;)

Edited by Daytona74

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Vincent Hanna

Just from what I've seen on the news, Havana looks hell of alot better than some of the places here in "Wales". I'd rather live in a country that's stuck in the 1950s than a country that looks like it's still a 19th century mining town.:)

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Stinger390X

I can't understand American mentality not taking the blame for something they started and then after being beaten at marbles they forced the man into friendship with Russia when the oil embargo started in 1961.

If your next door neighbor won't play with you ...you go down the street to the nest buddies house to play.

Why can't American's understand their governments policies cause distress all over the world? Their imperialistic behavior is never checked by the general public and they live in fear in their borders from terrorists. Ask yourself why you people live in fear constantly? The CIA tried to assassinate the man 638 times up to 1971 and failed at every attempt!!!!! Who has an an attitude then? I would personally be pissed and a little bit nervous!

Yes Tony I would go back to Cuba to visit again, and have done so, as it is a paradise on earth. Where can you go for a week all inclusive for 800 bucks Canadian? It's a beautiful country and the people there are happy. I have a cabbie friend there and the way he talks life is pretty good generally. He showed me around a good part of the island. I also sent a package of computers and radios to the University of Havana a few years ago as they were using old Russian Tube sets, so our group here sent a care package to the University Radio club there  (this will piss off American readers) We did this with my buddy who kept the cars in Cuba running all these years. They appreciated it greatly. You have obviously been listening to much to CNN and Fox, which are for sure the bastions of journalistic integrity. Enjoy your indoctrination.

If you emulate hatred, you receive it in return.

I'm sure now the hell fires will consume me as I did a kindness to the Cuban Students.

 

Edited by Stinger390X

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Ferrariman
On 11/27/2016 at 9:35 AM, Tony D. said:

Yes, there are celebrations among Cubans over Castro's death.....but now his brother Raul is still in charge. :evil:

I don't believe that Raul is the heartless dictator his brother was.  Don't get me wrong, I still wouldn't want to live there!

"Remember that all through history, there have been tyrants and murderers, and for a time, they seem invincible. But in the end, they always fall. Always."

                                                                                                                                                                                       Mahatma Ghandi

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Daytona74

In the end, democratic reform isn't going to happen with the Castro clan still in power. At best, if Raúl continues to open the country up for foreign investment and market economy-style reforms, you will end up with a model of government like that in China, where people are personally free to pursue capitalism almost any way they want, but where the one-party government still calls all the shots, and you have no freedom of speech and no democratic elections. It would be a step forward from how things are now, but it would be far from enough.

@Stinger: I've been wanting to go to the Cuban island of Cayo Largo del Sur for years. It's said to be one of the last pristine, untouched parts of the Caribbean. It's a two hour flight from Havana with a shaky Russian Tupolev propeller plane :)

Here's a picture of Playa Sirena, the prettiest spot on Cayo Largo del Sur:

9-Playa-Sirena.jpg

Edited by Daytona74

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Ferrariman

Somehow I can picture Andy Dufresne fixing up an old boat! :p

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Daytona74

Yeah... or Peter Griffin... :)

 

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Matt5

Wonderful picture of the beach!:done:

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Tony D.
11 hours ago, Stinger390X said:

I can't understand American mentality not taking the blame for something they started and then after being beaten at marbles they forced the man into friendship with Russia when the oil embargo started in 1961.

If your next door neighbor won't play with you ...you go down the street to the nest buddies house to play.

Why can't American's understand their governments policies cause distress all over the world? Their imperialistic behavior is never checked by the general public and they live in fear in their borders from terrorists. Ask yourself why you people live in fear constantly? The CIA tried to assassinate the man 638 times up to 1971 and failed at every attempt!!!!! Who has an an attitude then? I would personally be pissed and a little bit nervous!

Yes Tony I would go back to Cuba to visit again, and have done so, as it is a paradise on earth. Where can you go for a week all inclusive for 800 bucks Canadian? It's a beautiful country and the people there are happy. I have a cabbie friend there and the way he talks life is pretty good generally. He showed me around a good part of the island. I also sent a package of computers and radios to the University of Havana a few years ago as they were using old Russian Tube sets, so our group here sent a care package to the University Radio club there  (this will piss off American readers) We did this with my buddy who kept the cars in Cuba running all these years. They appreciated it greatly. You have obviously been listening to much to CNN and Fox, which are for sure the bastions of journalistic integrity. Enjoy your indoctrination.

If you emulate hatred, you receive it in return.

I'm sure now the hell fires will consume me as I did a kindness to the Cuban Students.

 

Stinger, I have no objection to you & your group doing a charitable work by sending up to date electronic equipment to the Cuban students. Actually, right there it shows how backward Cuba is.

I've never been to Cuba, but I believe there are many beautiful beaches and tourist spots.

I do object to you saying the United States is an imperialistic nation! We have treated every country fairly & sent missionaries, economic aid & healthcare aid to India and many other friendly countries.

The bottom line is ....I don't have to defend my opinion of Castro or his tyrannical grip on the Cuban people.......just read all the newspaper headlines & listen to the TV & radio commentators. Not only Fox....... read The Tampa Times, a liberal newspaper,  headline Nov. 27 :

"Rebel turned dictator ruthlessly ruled Cuba"

In the article it says : "Millions cheered Fidel Castro on the day he entered Havana. Millions more fled the communist dictator's repressive police state, leaving behind their possessions, their families, the island they loved and often their very lives."

Don't argue with me, Stinger,  argue with the thousands of Cubans in Miami who are dancing in the streets and celebrating Castro's death!

Respectfully,

         Tony D.

 

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Sonny-Burnett
13 hours ago, Stinger390X said:

I can't understand American mentality not taking the blame for something they started and then after being beaten at marbles they forced the man into friendship with Russia when the oil embargo started in 1961.

If your next door neighbor won't play with you ...you go down the street to the nest buddies house to play.

Why can't American's understand their governments policies cause distress all over the world? Their imperialistic behavior is never checked by the general public and they live in fear in their borders from terrorists. Ask yourself why you people live in fear constantly? The CIA tried to assassinate the man 638 times up to 1971 and failed at every attempt!!!!! Who has an an attitude then? I would personally be pissed and a little bit nervous!

Yes Tony I would go back to Cuba to visit again, and have done so, as it is a paradise on earth. Where can you go for a week all inclusive for 800 bucks Canadian? It's a beautiful country and the people there are happy. I have a cabbie friend there and the way he talks life is pretty good generally. He showed me around a good part of the island. I also sent a package of computers and radios to the University of Havana a few years ago as they were using old Russian Tube sets, so our group here sent a care package to the University Radio club there  (this will piss off American readers) We did this with my buddy who kept the cars in Cuba running all these years. They appreciated it greatly. You have obviously been listening to much to CNN and Fox, which are for sure the bastions of journalistic integrity. Enjoy your indoctrination.

If you emulate hatred, you receive it in return.

I'm sure now the hell fires will consume me as I did a kindness to the Cuban Students.

 

I wasn't going to comment on this highly politicized thread but after reading Comrade Stinger's repeated anti-US bashing I feel compelled to weigh in. I recall when you also bashed the US in the Pearl Harbor War Memorial thread, of all the tactless places to do so, with groundless accusations that America itself was responsible for the surprise attack at Pearl Harbor that resulted in thousands of deaths of Americans at the hands of Imperial Japan. Before the thread was killed, I rebutted your drivel with 4 or 5 paragraphs of fact demonstrating that it was not the rubber trade (and the impact of US policy) that precipitated this attack. Your lame comeback was nothing more than a sentence or 2 about "not knowing my history". smh

So regarding Castro, in the words of a President I do respect "There you go again".    You apparently "can't understand American mentality not taking the blame for something they started.." The rest of your comment deserves no response. Let's provide facts here in context, something you always seem to leave out of your rants. When Castro came to power he nationalized all US companies in country, in effect stealing businesses away from rightful US owners. In retaliation, the US stopped all aid to Cuba and stopped importing Cuban sugar, their prime export. As a result Castro looked to the Soviet Union for help and they signed a large sugar deal and led to Castro becoming a Communist. America became alarmed with this arrangement and Kennedy undertook the ill-advised Bay of Pigs invasion. In '61 Castro asked the Soviet Union for weapons to defend itself against the US should there be any further attempts at landing troops. He asked for a hammer and the Soviet Union responded with nuclear weapons, installing short and medium range nuclear ballistic missiles in Cuba even while denying their existence after being shown intelligence reports and photos from the US. And this led to the Cuban Missile Crisis. Yes there were US medium range nuclear missiles in Turkey and other NATO countries such as Italy at the time, but Krushchev saw a golden opportunity to ratchet up Cold War tensions with the West and provoke a young untested US President in Kennedy, whom Krushchev wrongly assumed would back down...and he underestimated Kennedy. So as to who "started this",  ask Fidel when he nationalized US businesses and stole their assets and business, and ask him when Castro asked the Soviet Union to provide him with weapons. And ask Krushchev who decided to install nuclear missiles on our doorstep.

As to your continued spew about "American imperialism" said with obvious disdain and disgust, I would remind you and the leftist faction that while acknowledging some US interventions have been failures but, on the whole, many would argue that U.S. imperialism/interventionism has been the greatest force for good in the world during the past century. It has defeated the monstrous evils of communism, Imperial Japan, and Nazism and lesser evils such as the Taliban and Serbian ethnic cleansing. Along the way, it has helped spread liberal institutions to countries such as South Korea and Panama introducing them to democratic principles and the rule of law.

Continuing with Castro, he conducted thousands of firing squad executions since his overthrow of Batista. Most of Castro’s firing squad victims were afforded only a perfunctory show trial the outcome of which was predetermined, and some didn’t even get that. Ernesto “Ché” Guevara is a popular culture icon, his face adorns posters and t-shirts of confused liberal snowflakes around the globe. Most people don’t realize that he was Fidel Castro’s chief enforcer and had a personal hand in at least 100 firing squad executions, often delivering the coup de grace personally. In response to questions about Castro’s firing squads Guevara once said, “To send men to the firing squad, judicial proof is unnecessary. These procedures are an archaic bourgeois detail. This is a revolution. And a revolutionary must become a cold killing machine motivated by pure hate.”  Such lofty words of justice by Guevara, some wonderful Utopia was Cuba under Castro...not. Castro also acknowledged more than 20,000 political prisoners and even at his death there remain thousands behind bars, and there were other atrocities.

And then there's the economic disaster that Castro inflicted on Cuba, the idiocy of the economic policy followed, that socialism, which led to there being essentially almost no economic growth over the 55 years or so of his rule. As to the absurd praise being heaped on Castro's "leadership"  by the left, leaving 11 million people grossly poorer than they ought to be in the name of a bankrupt ideology certainly doesn't make for sound obituaries. In 1959, when Castro took power, GDP per capita for Cuba was  $2,067 a year, about two thirds of Latin America in general and about the same as Ecuador (1,975), Jamaica (2,541), Panama (2,322) and two thirds of Puerto Rico (3,239). Despite that "playground of rich Americans" label it was doing reasonably well. By 1999, 40 years later, Cuba had advanced hardly at all, to $2,307, while Ecuador had, relatively, jumped to 3,809, Jamaica to 3,670, Panama to 5,618 and Puerto Rico to 13,738. While these other countries were not particularly well run, they at least weren't run by a dictator conspiring to keep them impoverished as Castro was. That he embraced the folly of socialism, of planning the economy, by doing away with the exploitation of capitalism and the ups/downs of markets, socialism would make the people rich. Even as late as 1991 Castro could have altered course, as Albania did when it adopted (and switched) to a market based system. At the time it was poorer than Cuba ( 1836 vs 2590 per capita GDP) and yet in only 20 years Albania tripled its standard of living to 5375 in 2010. Yet Castro the dictator continued the oppression of his people and kept them in poverty and misery.  And for those who sneer at American interventionism, consider Puerto Rico that saw it adapt the hated capitalism and market chaos so abhorred by Castro and other socialists, and yet its living standards soared by 4 times while those in Cuba stagnated for 50 years. Non-market economic systems do not work, and dictators who strive to keep their people impoverished and controlled certainly deserve no accolades.   

So when I read statements from leftists like Trudeau in Canada saying "“While a controversial figure, both Mr. Castro’s supporters and detractors recognized his tremendous dedication and love for the Cuban people who had a deep and lasting affection for “el Comandante”." I wonder how much ganja he is toking up in the Great White North? Maybe Stinger you should concern yourself more with Canadian politics than those here in the States before Trudeau leads you down the path of disaster.  And the US has been reverting to the right in the last 8 years, largely due to the abject failure of Obama's policies, with the Dems  losing more than 900 state legislative seats, and 35 legislative chambers have flipped to the right so that Republicans now hold 68 of the 99 state legislative chambers in the country. Also during the last 8 years, 13 Dem Senate seats and 14 Governships flipped to Reps. And this kind of change is something we need.  Oh and one more thing, we don't live in fear here in America as we have the best military in  the world, in spite of Obama's attempts to neuter it. The only 'fear' I have is that the left still controls too much political clout and will attempt to block the sorely needed real economic reforms that Trump and the Republican Congress will propose.

 

Edited by Sonny-Burnett
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Vincent Hanna
1 hour ago, Tony D. said:

Don't argue with me, Stinger,  argue with the thousands of Cubans in Miami who are dancing in the streets and celebrating Castro's death!

It was magnanimous of El Comandante to allow these people to be dancing in Miami and not be 6 feet under in a mass grave outside Havana like most Tyrants would have done.:cool: 

What about the people in Cuba who are actually mourning his death?(And not mourning him in an indoctrinated credulous way like Kim Il Sung/Kim Jong Il were) etc.

Edited by Vincent Hanna

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Ferrariman

Ok, I think at this point we can safely say that Fidel was a very bad boy.   As for the rest of the arguments can we please agree to disagree?  Or, if you must continue, please do it via PMs or e-mails or else the sandbox gets closed.  First and last warning.

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Daytona74

ok, never mind, didn't see your "warning" there before clicking "send"...

Edited by Daytona74

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Vincent Hanna
19 minutes ago, Ferrariman said:

Ok, I think at this point we can safely say that Fidel was a very bad boy.   As for the rest of the arguments can we please agree to disagree?  Or, if you must continue, please do it via PMs or e-mails or else the sandbox gets closed.  First and last warning.

The whole point of a forum is to engage in discussions and debates. Sorry Ferarriman but It's not like anyone is flaming or anything. We're just discussing a noteworthy topic.

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Daytona74
vor 4 Stunden schrieb Vincent Hanna:

The whole point of a forum is to engage in discussions and debates. Sorry Ferarriman but It's not like anyone is flaming or anything. We're just discussing a noteworthy topic.

 

It's not just another noteworthy topic. I love arguing these things out with my friends IRL for hours, and I'm never afraid to defend an unpopular view, But the problem is that you can also be at each other's throats about these issues before you know it, especially on the Internet.

And then maybe those bad vibes will spill over to other threads, and we'll all lose sight of what should actually connect people on this forum, which is our shared love for Miami Vice, after all.

I'd also love to keep debating this issue, but I think we really are at a point where we should just let it go. For our own good.

Edited by Daytona74
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Tony D.

I said everything that needed to be said, so I'm willing to drop the subject.

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Ferrariman
11 hours ago, Daytona74 said:

I'd also love to keep debating this issue, but I think we really are at a point where we should just let it go. For our own good.

Couldn't have said it better myself.  Believe me, I understand how passionate some can become about a specific topic and this one definitely had plenty of fuel for the fire!  I also want it clear that my previous post was not directed at any one member, but at the topic in general. After all, we are all friends on this site.  Things were getting a bit heated and I didn't want to see anyone say something that they would regret later on.  Thanks for the understanding.

Religion and politics gentlemen......

 

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jpm1

For me he will remain a man in search of justice, together with his compadre El che. Cuba won't ever be a USA state guys, but hey you got Porto rico haha

Edited by jpm1

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