Foreign Trips in the Show

[Den Taylor]

I've noticed something. In the first two seasons it was not uncommon for Crockett & Tubbs to travel to foreign places (by that I mean anything outside Miami, especially outside Florida). Tthey went to the Bahamas (Calderone's Return), Cartagena (Smuggler's Blues), other places in Colombia (Prodigal son), New York (again Prodigal Son plus the Pilot), and Rum Cay (I don't remember the name of the episode - where that laywer fakes his death with a place crash). This added a lot of flair and excitement to the show, almost giving it a touch of James Bond.

How come - unless I'm missing something - they ditched this after Season 2? Did they decide to stay local and focus solely on Miami? Why? Didn't go down well with the viewers? I doubt that. Didn't want to be copycats? (again, Bond) What does it matter if it's well received. Budget reasons? The only thing that makes sense to me. However, after season 2 they were in their prime, were they not? So money shouldnt have been an issue. And one reason why the show declined might have been due to decreasing excitement - something they could have maintained with foreign trips. Think about it: How cool would it have been to see them in Thailand in sort of another Golden Triangle episode but on the spot? Or to Europe (like actially Florence Italy haha). Other places in South America would have been cool too and easily would have made sense due to the drug cartels.....Thoughts?

Edited December 26, 2016 by Den Taylor

[Tommy Vercetti]

When Irish Eyes Are Crying was originally going to be filmed in Belfast which would have been interesting at least. I don't know if it would have worked though. Apparently in  season 4 Mann wanted to film episodes in Japan and Paris but it didn't materialise. They could've been good. Having a Castillo episode actually in Asia might be good. 
It would've been good if Stone's War had scenes actually filmed in Nicaragua. 

Maybe it would've been good to have an episode in Los Angeles. I could say Las Vegas and Mexico but they were featured in Crime Story.
I would've liked to see Crockett and Tubbs going to Spain, maybe to nab a drug lord. Or to Jamaica to bust some weed smugglers. Maybe Rio de Janiero too.

Edited December 26, 2016 by Tommy Vercetti

[Daytona74]

Yeah, there were plans to shoot a few episodes overseas in season four. I knew about Paris, didn't know that Japan was also discussed...

But with the show's waning popularity, budgets were trimmed down and plans like that were scrapped. Also, you had pretty bad writers strikes in L.A. during season four (which is one reason, but definitely not the only reason why the quality of season four episodes was so flaky). If what you hear was true, they were lucky to be able throw together 22 episodes at all that year.  And by season five, they probably didn't want to beat what they thought was a dead horse anymore. For "Freefall", they didn't even bother going out of state anymore. The scenes in the fictional country of Costa Morada were shot just outside Miami Beach.

Can you imagine what the show could have been if seasons three and four had just been gentle progressions from season two, with the exact same people still on board? They could have gone on another few years.

Edited December 26, 2016 by Daytona74

[airtommy]

I guarantee the problem was budgeting.

A Japan episode would have been AWESOME if they had done it during the first two seasons when Michael Mann was still heavily involved, John Nicolella was producing, and Dick Wolf wasn't even a gleam in Mann's eye yet.

[Den Taylor]

Sorry that I'm not all that knowledgable about this but why on earth would Mann neglect Miami Vice for Crime Story? With the bits and pieces that have been written in this thread so far I'm starting to see why things started to tank after season 2. What a shame!

p.s.: What where the episodes or plots supposed to be that would have involced Paris and Japan?

Edited January 12, 2017 by Den Taylor

[Matt5]

The Season 3 opener I believe was going to be filmed in Ireland and a feature length episode such as Freefall and Prodigal Son. But this was scrapped as Don Johnson was busy finishing his Heartbeat album and couldnt afford the time to go to Ireland to film if i recall. The feature length episodes or two parters were awesome including Down for the Count - loved Freefall

[airtommy]

3 hours ago, Den Taylor said:

Sorry that I'm not all that knowledgable about this but why on earth would Mann neglect Miami Vice for Crime Story? With the bits and pieces that have been written in this thread so far I'm starting to see why things started to tank after season 2. 

The info on Mann's presence on the Miami Vice set is very sketchy.  I've heard he was involved with every single aspect of the show's production early on.  I've also heard a story about him not even being recognized when he appeared on the set.  But it has been widely reported that he started taking time away from MV during S2.  It's quite possible he thought that since S2 turned out so well without his constant presence, maybe the show could continue well without him?

[Daytona74]

vor 9 Stunden schrieb Den Taylor:

 I'm starting to see why things started to tank after season 2. What a shame!

My own theory is that Dick Wolf ruined Miami Vice. His involvement as co-executive and later executive producer (see the freeze frame end credits of S3 and S4 episodes) coincided with the beginning of season three and was over by the start of season five, when Dick Wolf left completely to focus on Law & Order. 

During season four, at the height of Dick Wolf's involvement as the show runner, you can just kind of see the whole thing becoming unglued. The show was just missing its former magic touch altogether. Meandering, uninspired (and sometimes downright awful) storylines, lazy directing, slipping attention to detail. The show just lost its edge. And that was because a) Dick Wolf was only starting out as a producer and didn't have the level of experience as Michael Mann, and b) he just didn't value those kinds of things the same way as Michael Mann.

Season one may have been the most "Michael Mann" season of all of them, but I like season two best in many ways, because they took all the elements from season one that viewers loved, and they went full throttle with them. The attention to detail in every scene is just ridiculous, in a good way. If you just look at this still from "Bought and Paid For":

It's all one big orgy of lush pastels that have been arranged minutely to blow away any discerning viewer.

The guy's choice of clothes in this shot from Tale of the Goat is also mind blowing:

And night scenes also looked their best in season two, for example in the episode "Buddies":

 

This attention to detail was what got viewers' attention, and made the show finish at #9 in the Nielsen Ratings that season. And they threw all that away with seasons three and four.

The only consolation is that nowadays, Miami Vice is mainly remembered for the first two seasons, if you look at any stock photo in any recent article on the web on Miami Vice. You don't see Don Johnson in a season 3 earthtone suit climbing out of the Testarossa. You see this:

 

[airtommy]

On January 12, 2017 at 7:57 AM, Daytona74 said:

Season one may have been the most "Michael Mann" season of all of them, but I like season two best in many ways, because they took all the elements from season one that viewers loved, and they went full throttle with them.

I agree with your whole post, but especially that part. 

I never liked it when they left Miami.  I liked Smuggler's Blues a lot, but probably not as much as many MV fans just because I didn't like the feeling of being somewhere else.  The only time they left Miami and it didn't bother me was Prodigal Son, because they did such a great job of capturing a New York vibe.  But even then, my favorite part of that ep is Tubbs racing through the airport to the tune of "Take Me Home" and then Crockett being back in the chaotic OCB.

 

Edited January 15, 2017 by airtommy

[AzVice]

they didn't even go out on the ocean after season 2, except in Missing Hours, and the beginning of  Mirror Image when the boat blows up. all the other few boat scenes were just in the bay. around the bridges. so many season 2 episodes had that crystal blue sea water as the background. i even notice in youtube clips some casual fans mention how the show went down after season 2.

[Tommy Vercetti]

Season three and season five are great. I always thought so. Season 4 is the only one that was poor but there were a few great episodes in that season so it wasn't a total write off. I don't agree at all that the show deteriorated after season 2. There are a ton of great episodes after season 2.

[Crockettt]

Dick Wolf was black sheep of Miami Vice

[Daytona74]

I have to say I have a different opinion now on season five, having watched most of it. It has its share of silly and weak episodes, but you also see a return to tight, "Miami Noir" storytelling. The departure of Dick Wolf was a big improvement for the show. With the right budget, season five could have been nearly as strong as seasons one and two. The downside of season five was really that the show was at a stage of burnout about itself. You can really sense that. With or without a dwindling budget.

Season three was problematic, in that it did feature some of the best storylines, in episodes like Killshot or Down For The Count, but the drab earthtones and the cold neon color palettes just went against everything that Miami stands for. So far, I have only seen Miami from a plane at 30,000 feet, but even from that distance, you see that the city is a whole sympony of light pastels. It was like that even in 2000 when we flew past it.

I can appreciate that in season three, maybe they were trying to emulate 1940s classic film noir movies with pronouncedly gloomy scene setups. Especially the shots in the strategy room at the OCB still look carefully arranged with much attention to detail. If you like classic film noir, as I do, then you will enjoy episodes like Killshot regardless (I really think that is the best season three episode, and a quite convincing attempt at classic 1940s black and white film noir).

I think season four was when Dick Wolf realized that something about that gloom and doom feel of season three had been turning viewers away, and not just the failed attempt to compete against Dallas in that time slot. But because Dick Wolf downright didn't understand the formula of Miami Vice that had made the first two seasons such a success, he kind of helplessly tried to make season four a pastiche of season one and two elements.

Who knows what the show could have been if season three had been just a continuation of the two other seasons. But maybe that was going to be difficult either way, with Michael Mann gone. Different people working on a show will always have a different focus and approach a show from a different angle. And many will see it more as a stepping stone in their career than an obligation to honor the concept of a show that had hit on a magic formula like Miami Vice in seasons one and two.

 

EDIT :  And another unfortunate thing was that the wide season three blazers with their broad shoulders just looked pretentious, especially together with the ludicrously wide tail end of the Testarossa. I know, and I mean I remember that that was the fashion back then. But it just wasn't right. You can wear any of Sonny Crockett's early white, aqua or salmon colored tapered jackets today and look snazzy, but in season three clothing, you'd look like a pimp today, and one that the other pimps would laugh at. And even if Ferrari had no convertibles in its product palette at the time, I think the Testarossa was a bad choice. Not as a car in itself. But for the show. They should have just given the producers a real Daytona. At 100K a piece they were expensive even back then, but with the kind of profit that the show was generating, surely you could have afforded to have a car of that price range.  Not to mention that two Testarossas back then probably set you back by $100K each anyway. And even if the two Testarossas were a gift to the show by Ferrari, you were still using two cars of that kind of market value that needed to be insured and serviced.

Edited January 15, 2017 by Daytona74

[AzVice]

earthtones? when i think of earthtone i think of brown.  

i think they wanted to change up the style so it didn't get stale, but to me most of season 3 still has  the same feel of the first two years. less humor of course.

[Daytona74]

Yeah, I'll agree with you that if you are a show that is that much about fashion and lifestyle, you have to keep up with changing fashion itself. What they did in season three in terms of the perfection with which they arranged scenes, they weren't really slipping (yet) compared to season two. Everything sort of still gelled. Crockett even wore a white tapered blazer at the beginning of "Killshot".

But clothing did get darker the more season three progressed. As did the mood. And the music. And lots of people just didn't like that the way they liked season one and two. It was all just a bit too heavy on the down notes.

I think it's a pity that John Diehl left. Switek and Zito just brought that certain amount of lightness to every other episode. Two good old buddies, sometimes acting like overgrown boys, who hadn't lost their sense of humor over their work.

 

 

Edited January 15, 2017 by Daytona74

[Den Taylor]

Zitat

they didn't even go out on the ocean after season 2,

Now that you're mentioning it...I'll be darned. That is so crazy to let such an integral part of the show go. I can hardly imagine that it was because the writers couldn't think of any more cool stories that involved the ocean and boat chases!?

 

 

Zitat

Season 4 is the only one that was poor but there were a few great episodes in that season so it wasn't a total write off.

I agree. Like Indian Wars, Blood & Roses and Baseballs of Death.

So why did they choose this Wolf guy anyway especially if he was rather inexperienced? Why not have that black guy take over that shot the Pilot? (Don't remember the name) If he could pull off such a great pilot surely he could have done a great season too. And I remember him mentioning on youtube video that Mann gave him pretty much a free hand for the pilot...?
 

[mvnyc]

I like Season 3 the least of all 5 Seasons, with Crockett's spiked hair, the clothing change and the trips outside of Miami (the show was called "Miami Vice" for a reason, IMO).  

Edited January 18, 2017 by mvnyc

[Den Taylor]

What trips outside of Miami, mvnyc? They didn't go beyond Miami after Season 2 which was the point I was making in my initial posting.

Btw, speaking of Baseballs of Death from Season 4...they do have a water and boat chase scene there, at the end. But I guess that wasn't on the ocean..? It's a pretty good scene though! The whole situation is intense at the airport first (if you can call it an airport) and then with the hostage situation....only the way the chase ends is a bit lame IMO.

[Susanna Girl]

I remember when they said they were going to go darker in season 3 and I always wondered why.  It was sort of a disappointment to me..I loved the show just the way it was.  And also, it seemed that Sonny Crockett just became 'too cool' in the later seasons and I can understand if people got turned off by that.   Don't get me wrong, I loved the character, but it seemed he never smiled or joked around anymore which I thought always made him so likeable.  

 

[Daytona74]

vor einer Stunde schrieb Susanna Girl:

Don't get me wrong, I loved the character, but it seemed he never smiled or joked around anymore which I thought always made him so likeable.  

 

I think what was unnecessary was that whole thing with his psychiatric evaluation at the beginning of season five.

Not sure why they bothered with that. I don't think fans were tuning in to Miami Vice to see Crockett's shrink sessions. If they were still watching by that point.

Edited January 24, 2017 by Daytona74