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Vicefan7777

The Miami Vice Testarossa Auction

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Daytona74
Am 16.1.2017 um 23:05 schrieb king77:

And I would want to be in a position that when the restoration is over, the market value hasn’t dipped below what I invested. But that’s just me. And for me that ballparks the car around the market value of a mint 86 TR, maybe a little more.

 

Important point. IMO. Now isn't the best of times to buy a classic sports car to begin with. I read on the web site of a classic cars magazine a while ago that there are signs the market will top out pretty soon. If you are really considering buying a Ferrari as an investment, then you have to compare it to the stock exchange. Would you still go all in on a stock that has more than doubled in value? And you have to ask yourself, terrific cars as Testarossas may be, how can it be that within the space of about three or four years, they have gone from $60,000 to about $120K to $140K for a TR in good condition. It's not like half of them suddenly disappeared into a cash for clunkers scheme or something. You will likely still have as many of them on the road as five years ago, give or take a handful. So they also haven't become significantly more rare to justify it.

There is a huge deal of speculation involved. And speculation bubbles usually burst at some point. It's a seller's market at the moment, and there are still some buyers out there who think they have to get in on the action with classic cars. If I really actually had a Testarossa, and just any Testarossa and not one of the two MV ones, then I would feel very tempted to sell while people still pay ludicrous sums for them. My prediction is that they will dip well below $100K again after the next stock market crash. When people will be forced to sell on-margin stocks or their portfolios have been all but wiped out, and they will have to kiss a few of their toys good-bye to regain liquidity.

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king77
16 hours ago, Daytona74 said:

 

Important point. IMO. Now isn't the best of times to buy a classic sports car to begin with. I read on the web site of a classic cars magazine a while ago that there are signs the market will top out pretty soon. If you are really considering buying a Ferrari as an investment, then you have to compare it to the stock exchange. Would you still go all in on a stock that has more than doubled in value? And you have to ask yourself, terrific cars as Testarossas may be, how can it be that within the space of about three or four years, they have gone from $60,000 to about $120K to $140K for a TR in good condition. It's not like half of them suddenly disappeared into a cash for clunkers scheme or something. You will likely still have as many of them on the road as five years ago, give or take a handful. So they also haven't become significantly more rare to justify it.

There is a huge deal of speculation involved. And speculation bubbles usually burst at some point. It's a seller's market at the moment, and there are still some buyers out there who think they have to get in on the action with classic cars. If I really actually had a Testarossa, and just any Testarossa and not one of the two MV ones, then I would feel very tempted to sell while people still pay ludicrous sums for them. My prediction is that they will dip well below $100K again after the next stock market crash. When people will be forced to sell on-margin stocks or their portfolios have been all but wiped out, and they will have to kiss a few of their toys good-bye to regain liquidity.

I agree 100%.

 

When I married my 1st wife in 1989 her dad 13 Ferrari’s. Everything from a 55 F1 racer to a 88 TR. He even owned a car Enzo drove and sold it for $925K to an investor in early 1988.

 

Ferrari’s have spiked and dipped since. In the late 90’s he sold most, keeping the 88 TR and 3 Dino’s 2 factory supported racers and a stock one with less than 100 miles on it. Though he did ok on the sales, it wasn’t the windfall he believed he would get. The market dipped again in the 2000’s and spiked here recently, but the margins today are nowhere near what they were in the 80’s. A Daytona Spyder he sold in 87 went for over 1 million. Today you can get 1 for less than that.

 

The car I drove the most was the Black TR for obvious reasons. He paid 125K for it used, low miles, in late 88, recently his widow put it up for sale $145K and within days it was sold . Close to 30 years of maintenance has made it impossible for that car to be kept and money made as an investment.

 

I see nothing but a down turn, unless it’s a NART Spyder or another car of similar rarity. There will still be deep pockets to scoop of these older Ferrari’s but they will buy them for less because of less play money.

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Mvice8489

 Looking forward to it! And yes, I sure hope they do not auction it during a commercial.. That always ticks me off !!

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Daytona74

@king77:

Like I said, i's the same with stocks really. People get dollar signs in their eyes when they see that a stock has gone up to three times its initial value. It doesn't occur to them that the big guys who have driven up the price might already be getting ready to dump their shares to unwitting retail investors.

And that's why retail investors very often don't do well in the stock market. They don't see that a beaten down stock has potential for the future. For all they know, they might even sell it at that low price for fear that it will lose even more value. People who really know the investing business will probably also know not to do that, whether it's stocks or classic cars, but still, a hefty stock market crash should shake out a good number of people who will then have to sell their collection of cars and drive down the market value.

One of my all time dream cars is the Alfa Romeo Montreal. So much so that I'd rather have one of them than a replica Daytona. They were around 25,000 to 30,000 euros (!) here five years ago, and that put them not that high above what I realistically would have been able to afford back then. A decent Montreal will now set you back around $80K to $90K. So for now, I have had to thoroughly kiss that dream good-bye. But who knows, come the next serious worldwide economic downturn, maybe I'll be able to get one for $28K... :)

Edited by Daytona74

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Mvice8489

By the way, if you can find a Daytona spider ( not a conversion) today for less than $1 million let me know. I will buy it right now!!!

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king77

Just rolled off the block for 138k, hate to tell you I told you so, but I told you so.

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Mvice8489

Well that didn't take long :)

Anyway, I am SHOCKED that the car sold so low.  I would've paid that price in a heartbeat!   Truly amazing

I guess that sets the value of the "real" Daytona's that were used on the show lower than most of us would guess them to be 

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AzVice

i hadn't seen this thread but i have noticed the Testarossa the last few days and wondered. i thought it should have gone for way more too, but i guess it's because Miami Vice was not all about the car like a lot of the shows with famous cars

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Sonny-Burnett
48 minutes ago, king77 said:

Just rolled off the block for 138k, hate to tell you I told you so, but I told you so.

Now that was unexpected, at least by me,  and certainly does support your arguments about previous shilled bids.

I wonder now also  if he ever had any higher, and legit after auction offers that he declined.

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Dadrian

I just watched it on my DVR. Glad I didn't blink! :) 

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AzVice

also Barrett Jackson is a muscle car show mostly. these guys will pay more for a million of a kind mustang than a one of a kind Cadillac or Ferrari.

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king77
9 hours ago, AzVice said:

also Barrett Jackson is a muscle car show mostly. these guys will pay more for a million of a kind mustang than a one of a kind Cadillac or Ferrari.

Bonhams auction was in the valley on Thursday. And many of those collectors were at Barrett-Jackson. The car has been available for over 2 years and nobody bought it. And if you or me were a buyer who really wanted it, we would have been there.

IMO, as I said before, if the previous auctions were legit it would have sold in Monterrey or Kissemee for 400k+. 

sucks for us fans but there is almost no better auctions to get big money with very many deep pocket buyers than in the valley this time of year.

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AzVice

i suppose that is true. the Testarossa's i've seen there in recent years have gone for around 70k

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Mvice8489

I actually disagree a bit with the statement that "if we wanted to buy it we would've been there" .   I didn't attend because I assumed the car would sell for at least $400k.   If I had any inclination that it go for $138K I would have WALKED there!! (and I live 2,000 miles away from Arizona)  

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Daytona74
vor 2 Stunden schrieb Mvice8489:

 If I had any inclination that it go for $138K I would have WALKED there!! (and I live 2,000 miles away from Arizona)  

 

You are forgetting that with two "dedicated" bidders, very likely neither of the two of you would have gotten it for $138K.

Congratulations to whoever got the car. You now own an awesome piece of TV history.

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Mvice8489

I'm still very suspicious of this whole $138K sale. I mean come on! Maybe it wasn't the "hero" car. But the fact that it was even associated with the show means it has a value considerably higher than a normal TR. Who here would NOT have paid $138K for that car (assuming u are a 'Vice fan)?

(also posted this on Fchat)

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Daytona74
vor 15 Stunden schrieb Mvice8489:

I'm still very suspicious of this whole $138K sale. I mean come on! Maybe it wasn't the "hero" car. But the fact that it was even associated with the show means it has a value considerably higher than a normal TR. Who here would NOT have paid $138K for that car (assuming u are a 'Vice fan)?

(also posted this on Fchat)

 

The current market value of a Testarossa in good condition is around $130K.

This TR needs a good handful of repairs, the total of which is somewhat of a wildcard. Could be five grand, could be 20. If you go to a Ferrari dealership with it.

So we're back at around $110K, worst case. And then maybe add another 25 grand again because indeed this is the Miami Vice Testarossa.

In that kind of price range, I guess Miami Vice just doesn't have the kind of pull that we would expect. You'll always find somebody who can afford to pay $50K on a Daytona replica. But how many people can realistically afford to spend three times that and more on a car, and one that's probably not going to be that person's everyday ride? Are you really prepared to take the kids to school and buy your groceries in a Testarossa?

Also, not everybody who buys genuine Ferraris is a Miami Vice fan. And investors who deal in classic cars for long-term financial profit are on the sell side of the market right now, not on the buy side. Which goes some way explaining why this Testarossa has popped up on the market at this moment in time in the first place. And that hypothetical Miami Vice fan out there who would have had no problem snapping it up for half a million maybe just wasn't interested right now. Or they were actually bidding in the auction, but did get the car for $138K now because nobody else wanted to go higher.

Considering that we're likely not far away from the next serious downturn in classic car values, it looks more like $138K for this particular car is really a great price for the seller.

I think the Aston Martin DB5 that James Bond drove in the first few movies was once valued at $5 million. But that's because the car was much more rare in production numbers (Wikipedia says 1,059 DB5s versus 7,177 Testarossas), and also, the James Bond franchise has an infinitely lager fan base than Miami Vice.

Edited by Daytona74

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king77

3 years ago, January 2016, the silver/grey Ferrari TR that was given to DJ was up for auction. Though not show driven, it was his TR that he drove for 4 years. It bid up to $50K and rolled off the block for a no-sale. I didn’t know what the reserve was but the range was listed at the time as $90-$110K.

In regards to the show driven TR. It was not in very good shape, IMO,  last year in Monterrey when I saw it. It looked tired and had just failed CA emissions so it could not be registered in CA without being corrected. My guess that spurned on the engine out service. Rubber boots, bushings, belt all looked cracked/ashen from sitting. The car sank oddly when sat in and the interior didn’t look professionally done or cleaned and I saw fit issued with the bodywork. My opinion was that the owner/seller figured the Miami Vice name would push it over the top.

Based on a couple of the channel 15 clips from Scottsdale, the engine bay looked many times better, but I still seen the same fit issues at the front.

Here was an article I seen over the weekend. http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-culture/classic-cars/news/a32112/miami-vice-ferrari-testarossa-barrett-jackson-auction/ The production company documents they mentioned I believe are the invoicing we seen on the EBay auction.

IMO, it sold for more than what I would have paid and I am a huge fan. And that is the problem with Star/Hero cars, they are only worth what that individual at that time is willing to pay.

My ex-father-in-law sold a Magnum PI show driven Ferrari for $300K in the early 90’s. It was a 1980 308 GTSi. An 84 308 GTS QV went for $181K with sellers premium on Thursday 1/19/17.

 

 

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daytona365
46 minutes ago, king77 said:

I saw fit issued with the bodywork. My opinion was that the owner/seller figured the Miami Vice name would push it over the top.

Based on a couple of the channel 15 clips from Scottsdale, the engine bay looked many times better, but I still seen the same fit issues at the front.

No wonder it has body fit issues...first of all, it's a 1980's Ferrari, I mean they're proud of all the craftsmanship and all, but I have come close to a couple of Ferraris of that era, and they were all somewhat hacked together...secondly, they took it apart to paint it from black to white, probably at some movie car workshop, who knows, but these guys usually don't care too much, and thirdly....we all know the photo below and how these cars were treated on-set.

 

miamivice-behindthescenes03.jpg

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Daytona74

 

vor 20 Stunden schrieb daytona365:

secondly, they took it apart to paint it from black to white, probably at some movie car workshop, who knows, but these guys usually don't care too much

Depends on how they actually did the respray. Did they just spray the outside of the car, meaning only the visible parts, or did they do a complete strip down and painted the entire body shell and panels white? Kind of difficult to tell. I've tried comparing the Miami Vice TR with pictures of factory white TRs. However they did it, they did it so that you don't really spot a difference right away just looking at the car from the outside.

 

vor 20 Stunden schrieb daytona365:

and thirdly....we all know the photo below and how these cars were treated on-set.

Yep. Even if most of the fast-paced stunts were done with the "Pantera" Testarossa, that doesn't mean the two actual TRs were handled with velvet gloves.

If what you read about the two Daytonas is true, they were in pretty rough shape after two years of filming and needed a fair bit of work when they were decommissioned.

Edited by Daytona74

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AzVice

if i'm understanding that article it had 16,000 miles on it when filming ended ?!

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Prova85

Hi there. New here. Referred to this thread by Dadrian(thx man!). Huge Vice fan. Watched it religiously in the 80's when I was in my 20's. And also a large part of my owning a Testarossa going my 14th year now. Great cars. Addictive to drive. Couldn't imagine my life without it. Best part of ownership is all friendships I made with fellow Ferrari owners who are all good natured, down to earth and love to laugh dudes. And they're all die hard car lovers. If there's any other fellow owners here you know what I mean. :-)


 

About the car at BJ's, people here seem forget BJ's gets their cut. The owner paid $152k for  the car not $138k. He's a member of another forum that I am and he mentioned he's getting the car on Monday and it will be located in GA. He's going to post a detailed write up of the condition, how well the respray went etc. He's also going to be driving it and not letting sit and collect dust like has for so much of its life.


 

Couple reasons why the car hammered for what it did. First BJ's had over 1700 cars to rifle across the block in the time they had so they were rolling cars through pretty quickly. If you watched any of it you know what I mean. The new owner was a bit shocked it hammered as quickly as it did but he was at the right place at the right time. Anybody taking their time mulling over to jump into the bidding were caught snoozing with the quick hammers. He also mentioned that BJ didn't really market the car too effectively and it also was on the block rather late in the day.  As far as the car itself goes he got an  good deal given the Vice provenance IMHO. Of course that's contingent on what he reports on the car when he gets it. It'll be interesting to see the value of that provenance in the years to come.


 

Lastly BJ and/or Mecum are not a good auctions to sell a Ferrari or any exotic for that matter. For the most part they're an American muscle car/hot rod/classic car auction. Great place if you want a deal as a buyer for an exotic but not so much for sellers. Bonhams, RM or Sotherby's are much better for sellers of Ferraris.  So a confluence of factors lead to the price it hammered at.

Edited by Prova85
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Dadrian

Great info! Thanks! Welcome to the site!

I've always wanted a TR! What kid from the 80s didn't, right? :)  Great to know we have another owner here. Really looking forward to all you have to share!

About THE new TR owner, do you know what part of Georgia he's in? I live a few minutes north of Atlanta. I may have a new best friend! :) 

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Tony D.

Welcome, Prova85. Enjoy your visits to the MV site!

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Prova85
13 hours ago, Dadrian said:

Great info! Thanks! Welcome to the site!

I've always wanted a TR! What kid from the 80s didn't, right? :)  Great to know we have another owner here. Really looking forward to all you have to share!

About THE new TR owner, do you know what part of Georgia he's in? I live a few minutes north of Atlanta. I may have a new best friend! :)

Thanks for the welcome. He's in Suwanee if that's anywhere near you. I'm in MA and sure wish I was closer to check out the car(and take it for a spin. lol).

 

I've also asked him if the chassis no. in the VIN that was posted earlier in the thread is indeed of the car he bought.

 

Not to go off topic too much here but I have a quick question. I was a member of a Vice forum years ago that I think had Blackhorse(or something like that) as part of the URL does anyone recall that or know if that forum is still around? 

 


 

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