Inaugaration Day!

[Tony D.]

God Bless America and help Donald Trump make America Great Again!!   

[Vincent Hanna]

RIP the human race. It was nice knowing you all.

[Daytona74]

vor 17 Minuten schrieb Tony D.:

God Bless America and help Donald Trump make America Great Again!!   

 

He's gonna need all the help he can get...

I have a feeling that this could become a nasty thread again... but oh well.

Whatever you may think of Trump, now is the time for him to prove himself. To prove that in spite of himself, he can be a reasonable enough guy to carry this big responsibility.

 

To use a German saying... you've seen horses puke... (meaning even the most astounding things can actually happen in life).

Edited January 20, 2017 by Daytona74

[codemaster94]

I don't like politics or the thought of two liars running for President in our country, and I'm honestly fearing a bit for my life due to the President-elect stating this and that which seems more harmful and more worthy of striking wars.

[Sonny-Burnett]

34 minutes ago, Daytona74 said:

To use a German saying... you've seen horses puke... (meaning even the most astounding things can actually happen in life).

He's a businessman, something we've needed for many years now to right the economic ship that has been listing badly because of failed policies.

And to those of you outside the US, we have a saying over here 'People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones'. 

Edited January 20, 2017 by Sonny-Burnett

[Daytona74]

vor 13 Minuten schrieb Sonny-Burnett:

He's a businessman, something we've needed for many years now to right the economic ship that has been listing badly because of failed policies.

And to those of you outside the US, we have a saying over here 'People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones'. 

 

We have that saying too...

Not sure what you are getting at with that here in this thread, but when a country such as yours has a way of affecting and trying to influence politics in countries such as ours, and really pretty much every country in the world, then it can't come as a shock to you that people in that country will have decided opinions on your country.

Edited January 20, 2017 by Daytona74

[Sonny-Burnett]

2 minutes ago, Daytona74 said:

 

We have that saying too...

Not sure what you are getting at with that here in this thread, but when a country such as yours has a way of affecting and trying to influence politics in countries such as ours, and really pretty much every country in the world, then it can't come as a shock to you that people in that country will have decided opinions on your country.

I think you know exactly what I'm getting at, or perhaps maybe we should reverse field in here and begin criticizing the policies of Merkel which have not only negatively impacted Germany, but many other European nations. So unless you're prepared to turn this into a debate I suggest you get off your high horse about US politics, and stop over-generalizing about US policy.   

[Vincent Hanna]

10 minutes ago, Daytona74 said:

 

We have that saying too...

Not sure what you are getting at with that here in this thread, but when a country such as yours has a way of affecting and trying to influence politics in countries such as ours, and really pretty much every country in the world, then it can't come as a shock to you that people in that country will have decided opinions on your country.

Well said

[Vincent Hanna]

This guy is giving a good history lesson imo.

"Lets celebrate democracy in our plutocracy"

[Daytona74]

vor 13 Minuten schrieb Sonny-Burnett:

I think you know exactly what I'm getting at, or perhaps maybe we should reverse field in here and begin criticizing the policies of Merkel which have not only negatively impacted Germany, but many other European nations. So unless you're prepared to turn this into a debate I suggest you get off your high horse about US politics, and stop over-generalizing about US policy.   

 

I'm on no high horse here; in fact. I think Merkel's politics are dismal. The sooner she gets voted out of office, the better. And we've got that chance once again this September (although there is really nobody who would be even a remote improvement over her). She has not served our country well. At all. Or any country. She has been destructive both to our democratic culture in this country and to political debate itself. And she has done similar damage throughout Europe, eroding both democratic powers of the people and greatly increasing poverty with her cabinet's austerity measures that she forced on less prosperous EU member countries. It's going to take ten or twenty years to undo that whole mess.

But again, you can't knock somebody in a foreign country for having an opinion about your country's politicians, as you also have an opinion about Merkel, which I happen to agree with 100% as I just said. And if we take freedom of speech seriously, then by the same token, I get to say whatever I think about your new President as well.

Edited January 20, 2017 by Daytona74

[Sonny-Burnett]

1 hour ago, Daytona74 said:

 

I'm on no high horse here; in fact. I think Merkel's politics are dismal. The sooner she gets voted out of office, the better. And we've got that chance once again this September (although there is really nobody who would be even a remote improvement over her). She has not served our country well. At all. Or any country. She has been destructive both to our democratic culture in this country and to political debate itself.

But again, you can't knock somebody in a foreign country for having an opinion about your country's politicians, as you also have an opinion about Merkel, which I happen to agree with 100% as I just said.

I'm actually glad to hear you say that as I follow a number of other countries' politics from my days of traveling extensively. I love Germany as I spent a total of around 3+  months there at different times from various business trips. And I have friends there, and  I don't like seeing what Merkel has done.  So while also acknowledging that the US Constitutional Republic is imperfect, my views lean to the conservative side because of my background in Finance.  I respect that you and others in here have opinions about other countries, but I sense there is an overriding theme of US bashing in play and I do have an issue with that. And to those of us here who believe we have lost our way over the past few Administrations, some think Trump will buck/reject the existing political system and help us rid ourselves of the ruling political elite, which I suspect is what Vincent Hanna is alluding to. Trump is brash, loud and opinionated and many of us cringe about that...but of all the choices we had running for office none were able to capture the populist wave as he has done, by appealing to the masses and rebelling against the status quo. For that reason I am cautiously optimistic.

 

Edited January 20, 2017 by Sonny-Burnett

[codemaster94]

The Trumpinator is President.

[Tommy Vercetti]

I have absolutely no hope in Trump whatsoever. My biggest concern is foreign policy and I believe he will be no different than Obomba and Bush on that front. He has a plan to defeat ISIS does he? Oh, let me guess. Does this plan involve bombing the shit out of every Middle Eastern country that isn't Saudi Arabia and Israel, because that's worked out just great so far hasn't it? He will be no different. Just business as usual. The same shit all over again. 

I am so relieved to see the end of the Obomba years. I can't tell you what I really think of Obomba because it's obscene and I'd be banned. I'll say this though. I didn't support Obomba in '08 and I'm glad I didn't. He is a Nobel Peace Prize winner who has bombed seven countries, dropped 26,171 bombs in one year and ran out of bombs to drop on Syria. He and Killary destroyed Libya, caused the creation of ISIS, a terrible refugee crisis and Islamic attacks in Europe.

Obomba is a traitor, a liar and a psychopathic, mass murderering war criminal and he is on the level of Hitler, Stalin, Mao and Pol Pot. I despise and detest him and would like to see him rot in prison for the rest of his pathetic life. Good riddance to a piece of scum trash. That scumbag never should have been president. He has done irreparable damage to the planet. He is one evil POS. 

Trump is a clownish buffoon and I don't think he will be in any way different. I still say he should've had Gary Busey as his Vice President.

[Vincent Hanna]

Whenever Trump speaks like this, I get flashbacks of the 3rd Reich.

[Sonny-Burnett]

Tommy V for those who rail against US interventionism I would have thought you'd have a higher opinion than that of Trump. He has stated many times he does not support nation-building and has been critical of past administrations interventionist policies. He appears much more focused on US nationalism and improving our economy than did any in the past several administrations. What I liked about him is his plan for Tax Reform (needed to stimulate the economy). Regulatory Reform, reducing government spending, and a return to market driven forces in the area of healthcare. He's not a conservative, so I think eventually he may be able to work with many in Congress from the left.  As to Obama, well I think you covered it.

Edited January 20, 2017 by Sonny-Burnett

[Stinger390X]

As an outsider looking in I see doom in the near future.

Trump said "I will drain the swamp" referring to the corruption on the hill. He drained it and is trying to put even meaner alligators into it. A racist court representative, a woman who knows nothing about education and stating she would change the U.S. education system into a "pay" or reframe education into a business! just to name a couple.

He has tried to line his caucus with the most elite, moneyed, privileged and out of touch people in the country, but he promised the masses - the regular Joe's, he would represent them!!!

I don't see that happening in the near future?

 

I wish America best of luck and I hope it works out for the good of the common folk. 

[Tommy Vercetti]

I don't believe Trump when he says he's non interventionist. I think that was just rhetoric. 

Edited January 20, 2017 by Tommy Vercetti

[Daytona74]

Obama was indeed a big disappointment. We are no closer to world peace or global prosperity than we were at the end of George W. Bush's presidency with the whole mess he left behind with two wars and a global financial meltdown. Obama made things only worse. He didn't close Guantanamo (one of his key campaign promises), he also didn't end the fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan, drone attacks on terror suspects who were killed without fair trial increased manifold, and wealth distribution in the U.S. deteriorated even further to benefit the rich. And it's also worth noting that while G.W. Bush did nothing to change it, much of the deregulation of financial markets which so resoundlingly blew up in our face during the financial crisis was passed during the Clinton years.

So... will Trump do anything to improve that? I doubt it. Trump is a seasoned businessman, but an economist with consideration for the average middle class or poor person, he isn't. And if you look at his list of appointees for the administration, he certainly also won't return the power to the people. And in terms of world peace, he is a wild card at best. Not the best choice that comes to mind anyway for somebody who might seem fit to carry the responsibility of being commander in chief of the world's biggest military and around half the world's nuclear wahreads.

vor 49 Minuten schrieb Sonny-Burnett:

 but I sense there is an overriding theme of US bashing in play and I do have an issue with that.

I lived in the U.S. for about a year. I may not come off as the most sympathetic guy to U.S. politics that you will ever meet, but I think I also have an understanding of America's political landscape that goes just that slight bit beyond the average European, even if they are bashing the U.S.

If you knew me in real life, you would notice that I am never happy with simple answers and tend to always question this, that, and the other on just about anything. That said, I have very fond memories of being in your country, and I hope I will get to return for a visit some time in the future (if just to walk the streets of Miami and look for MV filming locations ). I'm critical of your government, but only in the same way that I am critical of the German government, or really any government. It does not mean I have any kind of grudge against the U.S.. Far from it. Your country was good to me while I was there. But you also have to acknowledge that somebody might have a different perspective on U.S, foreign policy if they're living in a country that is often on the receiving end of it.

Edited January 20, 2017 by Daytona74

[Sonny-Burnett]

Stinger not sure what you mean by racist court rep, but as to education our system is a disaster and we are moving down the curve in world ranking in education. Without getting into a debate on this we need an outsider who is not beholden to Teachers Unions and special interests to revamp our educational system. The Unions have too much control, Common Core does not address the core needs of all students , as higher-ranked countries such as Switzerland for example use segregation to tailor educational programs to students' individual capabilities. The nominee is in favor of that and the Dem Senators skewered her for that, because they want to continue the status quo. She also wants to reduce federal oversight to schools for the same reasons, and stop the indoctrination programs that have been pushed by the Obama Admin.

I don't see most of his nominees as the antithesis to draining the swamp, as he has appointed several highly-successful business people to key posts probably because he believes they know how to be successful and create jobs. And if you look at the appointees in the Obama admin, many did not have such business backgrounds. As a business person. I applaud the policy of managing government more like a business rather than as an out of control person with an unlimited credit card. The reality is that the job creators are largely wealthy people, and job creation needs to be our number 1 priority imo.

Edited January 20, 2017 by Sonny-Burnett

[Daytona74]

vor 54 Minuten schrieb Sonny-Burnett:

As a business person. I applaud the policy of managing government more like a business rather than as an out of control person with an unlimited credit card. The reality is that the job creators are largely wealthy people, and job creation needs to be our number 1 priority imo.

I've got a degree in economics. And I actually believe that there is something to be said for government entities to be run more like businesses. I was an intern during college at a city government office, and their style of conducting daily business was pretty lethargic. A private commercial company wouldn't last two months with that kind of work attitude before it would run itself flat broke.

On the other hand, you can't just go around economizing any and all government services. I believe that certain services that are performed for the public should be exempt from ambitious profitability considerations. Look at the privatization of corrections in the U.S.. Yes, you've got prisons that are run very efficiently in terms of value for money and profitability. But that is not without its problems, in that it has led to a prison industrial complex, which doesn't necessarily still serve the key public service function of keeping criminals locked up to protect the public from them for the duration of a sentence. On the contrary, the prison industry has become a lobbying entity that pushes for ever tougher laws and prison sentences. One in 30 Americans is now "in the system" in one way or another. And conditions for inmates keep deteriorating, while profits of those privately run prisons keep increasing. And that's where it can get very messy and very dirty.

The same with hospitals here in this country, in Germany. In the last 10 to 15 years, many municipal hospitals that were run by cities have ben transfered into private ownership and are now either operated by public private partnerships or have been sold completely into the hands of major private hospital corporations. Yes, these hospitals are now run profitably. They are run with good efficiency, and they reward their owners with good profit margins. But the problem is that as a patient, you get a lot less service. Or at least very little is free anymore there or without co-pay.  And doctors work insane hours for meager pay just to keep their jobs. In a country where every working person pays a minimum of $200 in mandatory health insurance each month (and very frequently a great deal more than that, depending on your income), you would expect more. And in effect, the profits that hospital corporations receive are taken both from patients getting less service and doctors getting less pay. Things have been deteriorating for nearly everybody because you have people in the loop who expect a financial profit from operating a hospital.

So I believe that certain public services should always remain in government hands, and that efficiency concerns, while valid, should play second fiddle to the importance of the public service that they perform. You can't always put a price on everything.

Edited January 20, 2017 by Daytona74

[Sonny-Burnett]

1 hour ago, Daytona74 said:

 And it's also worth noting that while G.W. Bush did nothing to change it, much of the deregulation of financial markets which so resoundlingly blew up in our face during the financial crisis was passed during the Clinton years.

So... will Trump do anything to improve that? I doubt it. Trump is a seasoned businessman, but an economist with consideration for the average middle class or poor person, he isn't. And if you look at his list of appointees for the administration, he certainly also won't return the power to the people. And in terms of world peace, he is a wild card at best. Not the best choice that comes to mind anyway for somebody who might seem fit to carry the responsibility of being commander in chief of the world's biggest military and around half the world's nuclear wahreads.

I lived in the U.S. for about a year. I may not come off as the most sympathetic guy to U.S. politics that you will ever meet, but I think I also have an understanding of America's political landscape that goes just that slight bit beyond the average European, even if they are bashing the U.S.

If you knew me in real life, you would notice that I am never happy with simple answers and tend to always question this, that, and the other on just about anything. That said, I have very fond memories of being in your country, and I hope I will get to return for a visit some time in the future (if just to walk the streets of Miami and look for MV filming locations ). I'm critical of your government, but only in the same way that I am critical of the German government, or really any government. It does not mean I have any kind of grudge against the U.S.. Far from it. Your country was good to me while I was there. But you also have to acknowledge that somebody might have a different perspective on U.S, foreign policy if they're living in a country that is often on the receiving end of it.

I appreciate your candor and that you have experienced time here in the US, and so have a better appreciation than most about US policies. And it's not often that I hear people acknowledge the causes of the 08 Recession as having its roots in the Clinton term, and I have had numerous debates on various News Forums with leftists about this. Many do not know of the impact of the Clinton admin's decision to lower credit standards to otherwise unqualified borrowers through FannieMae and FreddieMac as creating the powder that would become the Recession in the form of subprime loans.

I get your point about Trump but consider that 70 to 90 Million working age Americans are unable to find work currently, and most are middle class Americans. The new admin plans to end the economic policies of the last 8 years, which are really nothing more than warmed over Keynesian economics, a failed and discredited practice from the 1930s which holds that the ley to economic growth is more government spending. higher taxes and more debt. Sounds pretty stupid to me.  While not a conservative, I've read Trump's economic plan and it is more like the Supply Side economics plan that led to an unprecedented 25 year growth period beginning in the Reagan term. Its tenants include Tax Reform, Regulatory reform. and a return to more responsible Fiscal policies in government . 

Edited January 20, 2017 by Sonny-Burnett

[Sonny-Burnett]

25 minutes ago, Daytona74 said:

I've got a degree in economics. And I actually believe that there is something to be said for government entities to be run more like businesses. I was an intern during college at a city government office, and their style of conducting daily business was pretty lethargic. A private commercial company wouldn't last two months with that kind of work attitude before it would run itself flat broke.

So I believe that certain public services should always remain in government hands, and that profitability concerns should play second fiddle to the important public service that they perform. You can't always put a price on everything.

Agreed...not all government services can be effectively privatized, such as the military as another example. But there is so much redundancy and bureaucracy in the federal government, with Federal Unions preventing accountability and responsibility of individual bureaucrats that we need to aggressively attack the layers of government that are preventing true reform. I would start with DOJ, EPA, Education, State and the IRS. Trump has already targeted State and DOJ for budget reductions, and so it begins.

Edited January 20, 2017 by Sonny-Burnett

[Daytona74]

vor 5 Minuten schrieb Sonny-Burnett:

While not a conservative, I've read Trump's economic plan and it is more like the Supply Side economics plan that led to an unprecedented 25 year growth period beginning in the Reagan term. Its tenants include Tax Reform, Regulatory reform. and a return to more responsible Fiscal policies in government . 

There are people who see a revival of Keynesian ideas of government spending, usually founded on the notion that supply side neoclassical economics have run us into the quagmire of global financial crisis that we see today.

In the end, what is never completely untrue is that if you foster private business and make it easy for private companies to earn money, there is a possibility that those companies can then afford to pay their employees better and that that will improve the wealth of everybody. Including that of the government, which will receive a higher amount of (income) tax and thus will have more money to spend on public services.

The ugly side of supply side economics, however, has been the enormous concentration of wealth in the hands of the rich, while the average working person, without whom none of the profits of the rich would have been possible, continue to get the short end of the stick. I don't have the exact figures on hand at the moment, but I believe I have read that top executives of major U.S. corporations now earn 400 times the annual income of an average middle class white collar employee. This relation has risen more than tenfold since the 1970s. At the same time, work productivity, especially since the Digital Revolution, has increased hugely. While the income of the average person has almost stagnated in real terms. And then you've got all the problems of global sourcing which make incomes of average working people in developed countries even more uncertain.

I'm not against supply side economic politics. You can't ignore that private business is where the majority of people get their monthly paychecks from. But you also have to find ways of making sure that the wealth they generate doesn't all disappear into the coffers of the rich. Keynesian politics have historically very often led to giant national budget deficits and wasteful spending. But unbridled capitalism in the form of uncompromisingly favoring the supply side has also not been a good approach.

I'm not convinced that Trump will consider any of this. But we'll see.

[Stinger390X]

2 hours ago, Sonny-Burnett said:

Stinger not sure what you mean by racist court rep, but as to education our system is a disaster and we are moving down the curve in world ranking in education. Without getting into a debate on this we need an outsider who is not beholden to Teachers Unions and special interests to revamp our educational system. The Unions have too much control, Common Core does not address the core needs of all students , as higher-ranked countries such as Switzerland for example use segregation to tailor educational programs to students' individual capabilities. The nominee is in favor of that and the Dem Senators skewered her for that, because they want to continue the status quo. She also wants to reduce federal oversight to schools for the same reasons, and stop the indoctrination programs that have been pushed by the Obama Admin.

I don't see most of his nominees as the antithesis to draining the swamp, as he has appointed several highly-successful business people to key posts probably because he believes they know how to be successful and create jobs. And if you look at the appointees in the Obama admin, many did not have such business backgrounds. As a business person. I applaud the policy of managing government more like a business rather than as an out of control person with an unlimited credit card. The reality is that the job creators are largely wealthy people, and job creation needs to be our number 1 priority imo.

With respect...I think you misunderstood my comment.

I was a teacher for 20 years and am now retired. I have seen the decline in education and the re-vamping of it (finally) here in Ontario where I was a teacher.

In America during the Kennedy years and the space race , the U.S was second in the world. It is now not even in the G-20 but rather 28th in the world for education. This, sadly, is because of poor funding and unequal education for all. This "BUSINESS SCENCE" of the new administration is leaning towards those who can pay can get a good education, and in a secular society education must be a common factor for all it's populous. Running education like a business will only cause the decline of smart people in the U.S. meaning only the rich will get educated.

I have seen first hand how in Texas they are teaching creationism in secularly funded PUBLIC schools? This confuses me? Creating a multi-tiered school system and good education for rich and then the poor get the leftovers, is no way to run a national school system. (School and Society lecture 101 from my University days back in the early 80's)

Mr. Trump has to realize all things can not be run like a corporation. I have been listening to NPR over the last few days and they have been reporting on the nominees for cabinet and I can't seem to agree with one of them. Trump has picked some bizarre candidates who may be good business people, but poor politicians when it comes to looking out for the common folk. I have heard the interviews of these candidates and they are not very savvy and evade direct questioning of Congressmen? Are they hiding a secret agenda?

I say again, Trump was elected to weed out corruption on the hill but it seems he is lining it with "bean counters" with little or no experience or concept of reality. I certainly hope they can do a good job IF they do eventually get in.  Sadly the U.S. seems to equate everything with the almighty dollar instead of the best for society. This is obvious of your health system as the rest of the "modern world" has universal health care for it's citizens. Sadly the U.S. seems to run it like an insurance scam and that is a shame. Hopefully someday they will realize what Canada, Australia, all of Europe and numerous other countries of the G-20 and beyond already know.

There is no perfect society in the world, however there are ones that you can live free and in comfort and without fear of government intervention into privacy. Someday that utopia will be available for all, but we as humans have a long way to go.........................

[Tony D.]

Wow........what did I start