Daytona74 Posted June 30, 2017 Report Share Posted June 30, 2017 (edited) I have to say I have been watching a number of season three episodes lately, and the whole feel of season three has kind of been growing on me. For one thing, it has some of the best "Miami Noir" moments of the entire series, very nearly on par with "Calderone's Return" and "Golden Triangle". And in that, it comes closest to classic dark and existential 1940s Film Noir. You especially see it in the low-light scene setups and the dark backdrops and clothing. Yes, the lightness of season one and two is gone, as we have discussed in thousands of posts before. And with it, they probably chucked out a good bit of the city's actual character. But in a way, the focus on the dark side of drug crime has something to be said for itself. I always thought that Dick Wolf's involvement in the series from season three was what ruined it all. And it probably did for those who felt loosely drawn to the series because they liked the depictions of the easy living side of the drug trade. But if you go by the quality of storytelling, Dick Wolf's approach may have been markedly different to that of the undisputed genius of Michael Mann, but by and large, it still delivered. In the end, there are many season three episodes that make very good viewing and which are very well made both story wise and visually, such as "Killshot", "Down For The Count", "Streetwise" or "Red Tape". Season three really isn't bad in that respect, and you realize that things only really started becoming unglued in the very uneven season four. So what do you distinctly like about season three? Edited June 30, 2017 by Daytona74 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dadrian Posted June 30, 2017 Report Share Posted June 30, 2017 5 hours ago, Daytona74 said: So what do you distinctly like about season three? The Testarossa, the obscure alternative music, and Crockett's black loafers. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt5 Posted June 30, 2017 Report Share Posted June 30, 2017 The black loafers were pretty cool Some of the night time cinematography was particularly effective with music ( i.e. " Mercy Street") Crockett's darker suits were also cool at the beginning of the Season 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vincent Hanna Posted June 30, 2017 Report Share Posted June 30, 2017 You guys pretty much said everything, The show always had a nihilistic undertone but season 3 notched it up to great effect. The Testarossa and the changes in fashion, music and color pallette were a nice added refreshment. They used the new aesthetic well imo, I like how the night scenes are lit with green/pink/blue backlights like in "Lend me an ear", and the sets being especially evocative like in "Knock, Knock whos there?" There's a bright neon pink hallway that looks cool, you wouldn't have seen that in S1-2. etc Oh and I like how all the cast still seem interested in the show and they've grown into their characters to the point where it feels very real and mature. At times it feels like Law & Order: Miami. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daytona74 Posted June 30, 2017 Author Report Share Posted June 30, 2017 vor 29 Minuten schrieb Vincent Hanna: Oh and I like how all the cast still seem interested in the show and they've grown into their characters to the point where it feels very real and mature. On the other hand, you've got the rumors that Don Johnson was ready to quit after season two and that they already had Mark Harmon lined up as his successor. Then again, you also hear that it was just a self marketing stunt by Don to negotiate a higher salary. But yeah, the whole cast seemed like they had found their feet by season three. PMT in particular sometimes still looked a little off center in very early season one scenes. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mirrorimageegamirorrim Posted June 30, 2017 Report Share Posted June 30, 2017 (edited) Honestly, very little. But I like your positive attitude. I'm envious, actually. The only episodes I watch when going through S3 are Shadow, Forgive Us Our Debts, Lend Me an Ear, Duty and Honor/The Savage, and I can tolerate The Afternoon Plane (hard to justify why, though). I also love the scene where Crockett meets Eddy Kaye for the first time in Irish Eyes, but I can't watch the whole episode. The premise of the episode-- the IRA in Miami (Vice)-- is asinine, and it suffers from the same malady that virtually every other episode in seasons 3 and 4 suffers from: Dick Wolf producing his own personal police drama that only happens to use the same characters from seasons 1 and 2. I bet he would have changed that too, if it were possible. The man had zero appreciation for what made Vice special in the first place. To answer your question, what I love about season three is Jan Hammer. Edited July 2, 2017 by mirrorimageegamirorrim 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dadrian Posted June 30, 2017 Report Share Posted June 30, 2017 Even Jan Hammer was watered down by Season 3, though still better than what was to follow. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daytona74 Posted June 30, 2017 Author Report Share Posted June 30, 2017 Yeah, I just watched "By Hooker By Crook" and "Red Tape" tonight, and Jan Hammer kind of seems to have shuffled through slightly modified existing themes, I don't think I have spotted anything genuinely new by him in episodes like those. Also, I think the changed production design of season 3 wasn't fundamentally wrong. You have to stay on your toes as a TV drama and always be fresh and new. It just went a little bit wrong the way it was carried out. It probably would habe been better to not have made the changes so drastic from season 2 to season 3. But still, there are numerous season 3 episodes that are good for what they are. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mirrorimageegamirorrim Posted July 1, 2017 Report Share Posted July 1, 2017 (edited) 3 hours ago, Dadrian said: Even Jan Hammer was watered down by Season 3... Y'all are right about it not being JH's best work but it's still what I like best about this season. Any time he is present it's a blessing. I guess it's a testament to how little I like S3. Edited July 1, 2017 by mirrorimageegamirorrim 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mirrorimageegamirorrim Posted July 1, 2017 Report Share Posted July 1, 2017 3 hours ago, Dadrian said: ... though still better than what was to follow. Amen. What is up with the goth music from season 4? Where did they find this Jon Petersen (sp?) guy? I've heard people say that he was basing the scoring off of cues he received from JH but I don't see how that's possible. They sound nothing like Hammer. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dadrian Posted July 1, 2017 Report Share Posted July 1, 2017 I think Petersen got the job thru Jan, but I could be wrong. I know Tim Truman was a friend of DJ's. Maybe I'm mixed up with that. What dark songs particularly are you talking about on S4? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voodoo Vice Dealer Posted July 1, 2017 Report Share Posted July 1, 2017 13 hours ago, Dadrian said: What dark songs particularly are you talking about on S4? I guess the track from "Death and the Lady" fits perfectly that dark atmosphere. For me, the S3 is the best one in almost all aspects, the only thing that I don't like is the political theme being present in certain episodes, the ones involving the IRA, Cuban guerrillas and things like that. And, of course, Tubbs's haircut, I hate it! His best one in my opinion was from Season 2 As for the music, in this season JH made lots of great themes, like the 6 minute track from the action part of ''When Irish Eyes Are Crying'' or the shootout theme from ''Better Living Through Chemistry'', both of these pieces are unfortunately unreleased by him. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daytona74 Posted July 1, 2017 Author Report Share Posted July 1, 2017 vor 13 Stunden schrieb Dadrian: I know Tim Truman was a friend of DJ's. Maybe I'm mixed up with that. No, I've read that also. Miami Vice was also Tim Truman's first real big break, if you look on IMDb.com, he had only done two or three other things before he was given the job on "Vice". vor 3 Minuten schrieb Voodoo Vice Dealer: For me, the S3 is the best one in almost all aspects, the only thing that I don't like is the political theme being present in certain episodes, the ones involving the IRA, Cuban guerrillas and things like that. Yeah, the episodes that deal with that kind of thing come across a bit heavy handed at times. I'm not sure anti-Castro guerrillas training in the Everglades to assassinate a high-ranking Cuban government official was all that realistic But then again, we rarely complain about the show's most basic premise of two vice cops in designer suits and Italian sports cars chasing bad guys... civil forfeiture or not 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mirrorimageegamirorrim Posted July 2, 2017 Report Share Posted July 2, 2017 22 hours ago, Dadrian said: What dark songs particularly are you talking about on S4? Basically anything Petersen was responsible for. But if memory serves, check out Honor Among Thieves, Hell Hath No Fury, Rising Sun of Death, and Love at First Sight as some prime examples. Since I don't like most of the episodes that Petersen scored, and I'm not a masochist, I generally choose not to watch them. Some of them I may have only watched twice. So, as a result, I'm not the most qualified person to discuss them. But all of Petersen's scoring was a horrible fit for MV, which is my beef with it. Taken on its own merits, maybe it's not terrible. I can't say one way or the other. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mirrorimageegamirorrim Posted July 2, 2017 Report Share Posted July 2, 2017 9 hours ago, Voodoo Vice Dealer said: I guess the track from "Death and the Lady" fits perfectly that dark atmosphere. I thought JH scored this ep but maybe I'm mistaken. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dadrian Posted July 2, 2017 Report Share Posted July 2, 2017 11 hours ago, Voodoo Vice Dealer said: As for the music, in this season JH made lots of great themes, like the 6 minute track from the action part of ''When Irish Eyes Are Crying'' or the shootout theme from ''Better Living Through Chemistry'', both of these pieces are unfortunately unreleased by him. Yes, I love this one, too. Ever noticed it's a rework of the chase scene at the beginning of "Florence Italy"? @Ferrariman revealed that to me years ago! 1 hour ago, mirrorimageegamirorrim said: I thought JH scored this ep but maybe I'm mistaken. He did. "Death and the Lady" is of Jan's best scores of the whole series, and is altogether one of the best episodes of the series IMO. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daytona74 Posted July 4, 2017 Author Report Share Posted July 4, 2017 (edited) Having watched around a third to half of all season 3 episodes the last two weeks, one thing that struck me was that they seemed to have scaled back scenes that were set along Ocean Drive and the Art Deco district. Occasionally, you see back streets of Miami Beach, like in "Red Tape" or "Everybody's In Showbiz", but not the oceanfront landmarks of Ocean Drive and Collins Avenue. Was that because of all the renovation on Ocean Drive that may not have left room for the filming of Miami Vice scenes, or was this also part of Dick Wolf's different ideas about the show? Edited July 4, 2017 by Daytona74 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vicegirl85 Posted July 4, 2017 Report Share Posted July 4, 2017 From what I recall at the time, NBC wanted to scale down costs. Location shooting in Miami was a cost that they were trying to control. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daytona74 Posted July 4, 2017 Author Report Share Posted July 4, 2017 Then again, at least at the beginning of season three, Miami Vice was still NBC's newly risen star. It wasn't immediately obvious until a few episodes had aired that ratings were going to take such a beating. If you know what I mean... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vincent Hanna Posted July 4, 2017 Report Share Posted July 4, 2017 You got to give them credit for sticking to their guns since they could've thrown everything out and went back to the pastel colours mid season. It could've been a mess but the season overall turned out pretty strong Imo. Forgive us our debts, Down for the count, Red Tape, Hooker by Crook are great eps, style and substance. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daytona74 Posted July 5, 2017 Author Report Share Posted July 5, 2017 vor 2 Stunden schrieb Vincent Hanna: You got to give them credit for sticking to their guns since they could've thrown everything out and went back to the pastel colours mid season. Well you see Crockett wear white blazers a few times towards the end of season three. That was very rare in the early S3 episodes. Maybe that was a first reaction to worsening ratings. If you look at production dates and air dates on miamivice.wikia.com, it looks like they typically had around eight weeks from the shooting of an episode to its initial air date. So by late third season, they already knew that viewers weren't taking the reworked production design very well. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noggie Posted July 23, 2017 Report Share Posted July 23, 2017 That's interesting about the ratings. Honestly at the time I had no idea there was a decline. I do think reworking the look of the show was kind of premature. They could've added in some different outfits but season 3 is like aliens came down & painted the whole city different colors. I don't such drastic change was necessary. I also hate that soft diffused look the show got later in season 3. Everything is still crisp early on but everything got really hazy at some point. Did someone at headquarters not pay the light bill?? Turn some lights on!! I haven't watched the season in years but I thought it was solid. It didn't have the highs of earlier seasons but it didn't have too many lows. The quality was pretty consistent. I'm looking forward to watching the season all the way through again. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daytona74 Posted July 23, 2017 Author Report Share Posted July 23, 2017 (edited) Season three definitely has its strong points in storytelling. At least in the beginning, they were still running a tight ship before things started deteriorating towards the end of S3. One thing I noticed watching El Viejo the other week was that as this was the first S3 episode that was actually shot, the tone still isn't as somber as later on in S3. You also notice the change of color hues over S2, but everything is still brightly colored. Willie Nelson's hotel room in particular is still very "season 2". It's like the paint department just scrimped a bit on the white paint that would have been necessary to mix pastel color shades. It's kind of like they all got back from the S2/S3 summer break and hadn't really settled into the new routine. Like when you come back from a vacation, your company is suddenly under new ownership but you still use some of the old stationery. Edited July 23, 2017 by Daytona74 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remington Posted January 16, 2018 Report Share Posted January 16, 2018 Even though S1 and S2 are my favorites, S3 felt very refreshing. Especially on first viewing. I love the darker tone, styles, and music. Some of the best cinematography of the series comes from this season. Mainly the first half of it. And I love Crockett's short hair. However, the increased melodrama holds it back. Still a great season though. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt5 Posted January 16, 2018 Report Share Posted January 16, 2018 Just now, Remington said: Even though S1 and S2 are my favorites, S3 felt very refreshing. Especially on first viewing. I love the darker tone, styles, and music. Some of the best cinematography of the series comes from this season. Mainly the first half of it. And I love Crockett's short hair. However, the increased melodrama holds it back. Still a great season though. Good post Remington- the freshness, the refreshing feel of the show was great in early Season 3. The cinematography was some of the best for the entire series. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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