Rico's Son & Calderone

[Den Taylor]

Ok, I just watched the two episodes in a row where Calderone Jr is trying to take revenge on Tubbs for killing his father. (2 x 23 Sons and Lovers and 3x17 Afternoon Plane)
Now one thing I don't get.....I expected his son to be still alive. Because in Sons and Lovers they take the baby out of the car where Angelina was tied. So they took it with them or placed it somewhere. In the shack? Well from what I can tell they didn't show the baby in there....and they didn't show that the baby was killed. Since Calderone escapes the shack before it explodes it is plausible to assume that he took the baby with him (if it wasn'T already somewhere safe).
If he didn't - then what was the point of taking the baby out of the car? Apparently they had plans for it and that didn't include killing it (like Angelina).
Now is it possible that the boy that set up Rico in the Afternoon place with the raffle ticket was actually his son? That would be real twisted. But they don't reveal that it is his son...but that would have made for a great plot aspect. So what's going on here, did I miss something?

On another note: Why did Angelina actually start moving around in the car triggering off the explosion?

And wasn't it actually Crockett who shot Calderone? Yet no one's after him, only Rico.....??


 

Edited July 11, 2017 by Den Taylor

[mirrorimageegamirorrim]

20 minutes ago, Den Taylor said:

Now is it possible that the boy that set up Rico in the Afternoon place with the raffle ticket was actually his son?

On another note: Why did Angelina actually start moving around in the car triggering off the explosion?


 

The events of season 2 and season 3 are too close together for that boy to be Rico's son.

I've always thought she sacrificed herself, as in suicide, as an attempt to save her baby (and even Rico) through the distraction it caused. 

[James]

Not possible. Rico Jr would've only been 2 years old.

[summer84]

I always thought Rico's son died (I know I'm in the minority here) maybe in that house that exploded and because of the coffin. . I don't remember everything exactly from that episode. Also that could perhaps explain, why Rico's son is never mentioned again. It's just my thoughts about it. 

[vicegirl85]

On 7/10/2017 at 9:33 PM, mirrorimageegamirorrim said:

The events of season 2 and season 3 are too close together for that boy to be Rico's son.

I've always thought she sacrificed herself, as in suicide, as an attempt to save her baby (and even Rico) through the distraction it caused. 

I also thought Angelina sacrificed herself to keep Rico from taking action that would cause his own death when the car exploded.  Don't think Rico knew the car was booby-trapped, and he might have yanked the door open to try to save Angelina and the baby.

At the time of Angelina's death and the funeral, the assumption was that the baby also died in the explosion.  Rico didn't know he had been taken from the car, and I'm sure there were few or no identifiable body parts afterward.  Can't think too hard about that because after all, what actual right did Rico have to claim Angelina's body and hold a funeral?  And I think it would have made more sense to bury Angelina and the baby in the same coffin (given the non-identifiability (in my opinion) of the body parts). 

The baby unfortunately went into the "memory bucket".  Either new showrunners couldn't come up with a storyline to resolve the situation or they just didn't have interest in resolving it.  Truthfully Rico wasn't very good single-father material, with his undercover job and no family support in Miami.  What would he have done with a baby?  As has been previously stated by some members here, he would have been an equally bad/more absent dad than Crockett. 

[mirrorimageegamirorrim]

19 hours ago, vicegirl85 said:

I also thought Angelina sacrificed herself to keep Rico from taking action that would cause his own death when the car exploded.  Don't think Rico knew the car was booby-trapped, and he might have yanked the door open to try to save Angelina and the baby.

At the time of Angelina's death and the funeral, the assumption was that the baby also died in the explosion.  Rico didn't know he had been taken from the car, and I'm sure there were few or no identifiable body parts afterward.  Can't think too hard about that because after all, what actual right did Rico have to claim Angelina's body and hold a funeral?  And I think it would have made more sense to bury Angelina and the baby in the same coffin (given the non-identifiability (in my opinion) of the body parts). 

The baby unfortunately went into the "memory bucket".  Either new showrunners couldn't come up with a storyline to resolve the situation or they just didn't have interest in resolving it.  Truthfully Rico wasn't very good single-father material, with his undercover job and no family support in Miami.  What would he have done with a baby?  As has been previously stated by some members here, he would have been an equally bad/more absent dad than Crockett. 

Great thoughts. I've always felt the same way and you expressed it better than me.  It was less about distraction and more about keeping Rico away from the car.  

Something you said that is new to me is the idea that the baby actually died in the melee.  I've always assumed he lived because Orlando lived.  But, your idea would explain why this storyline was never "resolved".  A dead son would mean there's nothing to resolve!     

[king77]

19 hours ago, vicegirl85 said:

I also thought Angelina sacrificed herself to keep Rico from taking action that would cause his own death when the car exploded.  Don't think Rico knew the car was booby-trapped, and he might have yanked the door open to try to save Angelina and the baby.

At the time of Angelina's death and the funeral, the assumption was that the baby also died in the explosion.  Rico didn't know he had been taken from the car, and I'm sure there were few or no identifiable body parts afterward.  Can't think too hard about that because after all, what actual right did Rico have to claim Angelina's body and hold a funeral?  And I think it would have made more sense to bury Angelina and the baby in the same coffin (given the non-identifiability (in my opinion) of the body parts). 

The baby unfortunately went into the "memory bucket".  Either new showrunners couldn't come up with a storyline to resolve the situation or they just didn't have interest in resolving it.  Truthfully Rico wasn't very good single-father material, with his undercover job and no family support in Miami.  What would he have done with a baby?  As has been previously stated by some members here, he would have been an equally bad/more absent dad than Crockett. 

Rico knew the car was wired, he was meeting Calderone to get the transmitter.

[summer84]

39 minutes ago, mirrorimageegamirorrim said:

Something you said that is new to me is the idea that the baby actually died in the melee.  I've always assumed he lived because Orlando lived.  But, your idea would explain why this storyline was never "resolved".  A dead son would mean there's nothing to resolve!     

That's what I always thought about Rico's son never being mentioned again also. As mentioned in my post above. And it makes sense to me. I could never really relate to the discussions in the review thread about him being alive. 

Edited July 14, 2017 by summer84

[mirrorimageegamirorrim]

23 minutes ago, king77 said:

Rico knew the car was wired, he was meeting Calderone to get the transmitter.

You're correct, but people in love don't always act logically.  I think he was prepared to do whatever it took to protect wife and son, and the consequences be damned.  

[vicegirl85]

1 hour ago, mirrorimageegamirorrim said:

Something you said that is new to me is the idea that the baby actually died in the melee.  I've always assumed he lived because Orlando lived.  But, your idea would explain why this storyline was never "resolved".  A dead son would mean there's nothing to resolve!     

I do think it's very possible the baby survived because Orlando took him out of the car.  But if I recall correctly, the funeral/graveside ceremony had a small coffin as well as the regular-sized one for Angelina's remains (and maybe I don't recall correctly because I haven't watched it as often as some here).  Rico didn't know the baby wasn't in the car when it exploded, so he naturally thought his son had died.  But whether or not he survived was really never clarified by the writers.  In that episode the viewers were led to believe the baby lived  although Angelina died, but Rico never found out that his son might have survived (as far as I can recall). 

[Sonny-Burnett]

1 hour ago, vicegirl85 said:

I do think it's very possible the baby survived because Orlando took him out of the car.  But if I recall correctly, the funeral/graveside ceremony had a small coffin as well as the regular-sized one for Angelina's remains (and maybe I don't recall correctly because I haven't watched it as often as some here).  Rico didn't know the baby wasn't in the car when it exploded, so he naturally thought his son had died.  But whether or not he survived was really never clarified by the writers.  In that episode the viewers were led to believe the baby lived  although Angelina died, but Rico never found out that his son might have survived (as far as I can recall). 

This is an open issue to me as well. The explosion scene implies the baby lived, yet there is a baby coffin at the funeral. The baby was never brought back into the storyline, unless it was planned but later on the writers reversed course. But why have a coffin if there is no body unless, but not to get too graphic, they could not separately identify the remains?

Edited July 14, 2017 by Sonny-Burnett

[summer84]

If the baby actually did live and wasen't killed in the explosion then I agree with vicegirl85 about new season writers dropping a storyline involving Rico's son. Could be because of a number of reasons. And since there was a baby coffin present at the funeral, they (the producers and writers) could always decide to "close that case", if they wanted to. Still other storylines were resolved/closed in S5 with Tubbs and Valerie, Lombard and Burnett saga? But they made that episode "The Afternoon Plane" with Calderóne Jr returning without any mentioning of the baby, where it would have been appropriate, so perhaps Rico's son story was already dropped then/changed direction in the show regarding the baby. 

Edited July 14, 2017 by summer84

[vicegirl85]

1 hour ago, Sonny-Burnett said:

This is an open issue to me as well. The explosion scene implies the baby lived, yet there is a baby coffin at the funeral. The baby was never brought back into the storyline, unless it was planned but later on the writers reversed course. But why have a coffin if there is no body unless, but not to get too graphic, they could not separately identify the remains?

I also wonder why--even if Rico thought both of them died in the explosion--he didn't have all of the remains in one casket.  As you say, separate identification would surely have been problematic.  And mother and baby together in one casket surely wouldn't be too weird?

But as I said before, I'm wondering what legal right Rico would have had to claim the body/bodies anyway.  He and Angelina weren't married and he had no documents naming him as her son's father.  So again, suspension of disbelief is needed to accept the scenario.  

[mirrorimageegamirorrim]

3 hours ago, vicegirl85 said:

I do think it's very possible the baby survived because Orlando took him out of the car.  But if I recall correctly, the funeral/graveside ceremony had a small coffin as well as the regular-sized one for Angelina's remains (and maybe I don't recall correctly because I haven't watched it as often as some here).  Rico didn't know the baby wasn't in the car when it exploded, so he naturally thought his son had died.  But whether or not he survived was really never clarified by the writers.  In that episode the viewers were led to believe the baby lived  although Angelina died, but Rico never found out that his son might have survived (as far as I can recall). 

I think you're right on with all this. 

Am I imagining this or was Orlando carrying the baby with him when he ran out of the shed, just before it was blown up?

[mirrorimageegamirorrim]

I just wanted to tell everyone how much I'm enjoying this thread and everybody's input.  I don't think the OP realized the can of worms he was opening!  Season 2 is my favorite season and "Sons and Lovers" is one the best episodes from Vice's greatest season.  As far as season finales go, it's the second best one of the show, only surpassed by Mirror Image. (I'll bet you all already saw that one coming. )  It's also one of the best season finales I've seen from any TV show I've ever watched.  It's about as close to perfect as an episode of Vice can get. 

[vicegirl85]

1 hour ago, mirrorimageegamirorrim said:

I think you're right on with all this. 

Am I imagining this or was Orlando carrying the baby with him when he ran out of the shed, just before it was blown up?

Thanks!  I'll definitely have to watch the episode again, because I can't really remember!

[James]

4 hours ago, mirrorimageegamirorrim said:

I think you're right on with all this. 

Am I imagining this or was Orlando carrying the baby with him when he ran out of the shed, just before it was blown up?

I think he told one of his pals to take the baby away long before the fight.

[Matt5]

20 hours ago, summer84 said:

If the baby actually did live and wasen't killed in the explosion then I agree with vicegirl85 about new season writers dropping a storyline involving Rico's son. Could be because of a number of reasons. And since there was a baby coffin present at the funeral, they (the producers and writers) could always decide to "close that case", if they wanted to. Still other storylines were resolved/closed in S5 with Tubbs and Valerie, Lombard and Burnett saga? But they made that episode "The Afternoon Plane" with Calderóne Jr returning without any mentioning of the baby, where it would have been appropriate, so perhaps Rico's son story was already dropped then/changed direction in the show regarding the baby. 

Very good points Summer 

[Matt5]

@summer84 I'm pretty sure it was to do with new producers and writers taking the show in a new and different direction in the Summer of 1986

[summer84]

After all this time believing, Angelina's son was killed, I don't think that anymore. Watching this episode late tonight, Orlando says twice to his men they should take the baby to the main house and leave him to some lady named Maria. Maybe his housekeeper. That means the baby didn't die in the shack, (what I first thought), where the explosion happened. So the baby lived, but it was very sad watching the scene with Angelina in the car and her blowing it up...

Edited October 16, 2017 by summer84

[Daytona74]

I think it's legal to bury an empty coffin if no remains of a person are found and they are presumed dead given all the circumstances. You hear about that when people die in plane crashes in the middle of the ocean with thousands of feet of water below them, for example. Maybe they thought the baby was in the car when it blew up. Given that they were just a few feet from the ocean, it's at least thinkable that a small body would have been blown out of the vehicle and into the water and then carried away by the current, or much worse.

Then again, the car in which Angelina was tied up was under close surveillance in that scene, at least enough so that police were able to see Angelina moving around in the car at the moment when she set off the bomb. So they probably would have noticed somebody removing the baby from the car as well.

So is Rico Jr. still alive? That's for the makers of a new Miami Vice to decide really. It could go either way. If you consider what kinds of spectacular deaths characters died in 80s TV dramas and then inexplicably returned alive and well, I think there's an even chance Rico Jr. will return or not...

 

As far as Angelina moving around in the car and triggering the bomb, I think she just simply lost her nerves. She knew the bomb was wired to the steering wheel and the horn, but the way they shot the moment she touches the steering wheel could be interpreted either way. Maybe it was an accident, maybe it was intentional. I think she simply lost it and then while she was trying to untie herself touched the steering wheel by accident.

 

[summer84]

1 hour ago, Daytona74 said:

Then again, the car in which Angelina was tied up was under close surveillance in that scene, at least enough so that police were able to see Angelina moving around in the car at the moment when she set off the bomb. So they probably would have noticed somebody removing the baby from the car as well.

So is Rico Jr. still alive? That's for the makers of a new Miami Vice to decide really. It could go either way. If you consider what kinds of spectacular deaths characters died in 80s TV dramas and then inexplicably returned alive and well, I think there's an even chance Rico Jr. will return or not...

 

As far as Angelina moving around in the car and triggering the bomb, I think she just simply lost her nerves. She knew the bomb was wired to the steering wheel and the horn, but the way they shot the moment she touches the steering wheel could be interpreted either way. Maybe it was an accident, maybe it was intentional. I think she simply lost it and then while she was trying to untie herself touched the steering wheel by accident.

 

They did see Angelina moving in the car, but Rico's son was removed before the units arrived to the scene.

I think most characters magically returning from the dead, were in soap operas. 

If you look closely at that scene with Angelina, when she unties herself, she immediately presses the horn causing the explosion. It looks intentional and I thought it was clear, that she did it to sacrifice herself, because she's says, that he shouldn't get the transmitter, cause they will kill her anyway to Tubbs.

Edited October 16, 2017 by summer84

[Daytona74]

vor 2 Stunden schrieb summer84:

They did see Angelina moving in the car, but Rico's son was removed before the units arrived to the scene.

Right... well I'm going to have to rewatch the whole scene...

One guess I've always had was that the scene where they removed the baby was shot after the fact. Maybe they thought at some point during production that blowing up an innocent baby was too drastic, and so they made sure the viewer knew the baby was not in the car when it blew up.

But they then managed to tie it into the storyline and the funeral scenes they may have already shot before that.

 

 

 

Edited October 16, 2017 by Daytona74

[Sea-light]

On 14.07.2017 at 8:48 PM, mirrorimageegamirorrim said:

Great thoughts. I've always felt the same way and you expressed it better than me.  It was less about distraction and more about keeping Rico away from the car.  

Something you said that is new to me is the idea that the baby actually died in the melee.  I've always assumed he lived because Orlando lived.  But, your idea would explain why this storyline was never "resolved".  A dead son would mean there's nothing to resolve!     

I also thought about baby dying in the house, burt then watched this ep-when Orlando leaves the melee, we see it whole, there was no baby and no place to put him. Should they take it to the melee, if he coul start crying and their plan to make Rico assume the kid was in a car could be blown up? And when they took the baby out, Orlando says twise "take the baby to a MAIN house, let Marie look after". Who is Marie and what's a main house? I don't know. The two coffins is a very strange thig because what did they put into a kid's coffin???? Rico's mistake was not to check everything. And a big and bad thing the makers did-was "forgetting"  about Rico's child was alive. What for they didn't "kill" him??? What for they made Rico think he's dead when he wasn't? So many questions without answers.

[Sea-light]

8 hours ago, Daytona74 said:

I think it's legal to bury an empty coffin if no remains of a person are found and they are presumed dead given all the circumstances. You hear about that when people die in plane crashes in the middle of the ocean with thousands of feet of water below them, for example. Maybe they thought the baby was in the car when it blew up. Given that they were just a few feet from the ocean, it's at least thinkable that a small body would have been blown out of the vehicle and into the water and then carried away by the current, or much worse.

Then again, the car in which Angelina was tied up was under close surveillance in that scene, at least enough so that police were able to see Angelina moving around in the car at the moment when she set off the bomb. So they probably would have noticed somebody removing the baby from the car as well.

So is Rico Jr. still alive? That's for the makers of a new Miami Vice to decide really. It could go either way. If you consider what kinds of spectacular deaths characters died in 80s TV dramas and then inexplicably returned alive and well, I think there's an even chance Rico Jr. will return or not...

 

As far as Angelina moving around in the car and triggering the bomb, I think she just simply lost her nerves. She knew the bomb was wired to the steering wheel and the horn, but the way they shot the moment she touches the steering wheel could be interpreted either way. Maybe it was an accident, maybe it was intentional. I think she simply lost it and then while she was trying to untie herself touched the steering wheel by accident.

 

I wish the new makers will return Rico-jr. But for some reasons I don't beliave they will do it.  It seems to me nobody (makers) care about this, and about fans' big interest to this storyline.