Episode #11 "Little Prince"

[Dadrian]

@GoombayPunch how many times have you watched it?

[Eillio Martin Imbasciati]

I understand your perspective and grievances on this episode, GoombayPunch: for me any misgivings I have are made up for with the conversation between Mark Sr. & Jr. at the climax. Sure, Mark Sr. comes off pretty ruthless & cold, but I believe that to be the intention; seems things came to a head for him at the end and he yielded to regret. There appeared to be an active sex life between Mark Sr. & Mary, so for the kind of character Mark Sr. was (1980's business yuppie shark, with some fraud and ill-gotten gains mixed in), that was enough for me. As for the acting of Mitchell Lichtenstein, I did think some scenes from him were stronger than others, but I just really dig what I consider to be a big finish. As a whole, I don't feel the episode is the strongest of the season or series, but there's enough individual moments here to carry the day for me (I liked the bit with Switek/Zito & Gina/Trudy swapping surveillance, as this episode needed some humor. Plus, I can't be too harsh on any Vice episode in where Trudy wears a hat:-).

[GoombayPunch]

1 hour ago, Dadrian said:

@GoombayPunch how many times have you watched it?

A couple times, maybe one more is in the cards if my objections had clear answers in the episode.

[Tom]

vor 7 Minuten schrieb GoombayPunch:

A couple times, maybe one more is in the cards if my objections had clear answers in the episode.

if you really heard Tina Turner in that episode as you mentioned before you have maybe watched it either too often or not often enough...

[GoombayPunch]

5 minutes ago, Tom said:

if you really heard Tina Turner in that episode as you mentioned before you have maybe watched it either too often or not often enough...

Whoops! You're right, she was in the previous episode. My bad, they are getting jumbled up.

Edited January 13, 2021 by GoombayPunch

[Tom]

Gerade eben schrieb GoombayPunch:

Whoops! You're right, she was in the previous episode. My bad, they are getting jumbled up.

Never mind, but that was probably the reason why @Dadrian asked you how often you watched it in the first place 

[Dadrian]

16 minutes ago, GoombayPunch said:

A couple times, maybe one more is in the cards if my objections had clear answers in the episode.

I was only asking because some of these weaker episodes have other little things that become enjoyable through future viewings, at least that’s been my experience. There are a few exceptions, of course. 

[GoombayPunch]

1 minute ago, Dadrian said:

I was only asking because some of these weaker episodes have other little things that become enjoyable through future viewings, at least that’s been my experience. There are a few exceptions, of course. 

True, as Eillio pointed out about Zito/Switek on the stake out. Any scene they are in is worth watching multiple times.

[Dadrian]

4 minutes ago, GoombayPunch said:

True, as Eillio pointed out about Zito/Switek on the stake out. Any scene they are in is worth watching multiple times.

Also, it’s Miami Vice. 

And you might have guessed that any episode that Jan Hammer scored is at least worth that to me.  

[pahonu]

3 hours ago, Dadrian said:

I was only asking because some of these weaker episodes have other little things that become enjoyable through future viewings, at least that’s been my experience. There are a few exceptions, of course. 

I agree Dadrian.  I “confess”  to enjoying The Big Thaw because I like seeing the depiction of Rastafarian culture and the reggae music.  I also enjoy Izzy’s antics in this one. Of course, I understand it’s not the highest quality episode there is.

In fact, I find myself less frequently going back to some of the episodes that we would all agree are far better, because they’re often pretty intense and require more focused viewing.

Edited January 14, 2021 by pahonu

[Dadrian]

@pahonu +1 on every word of that! 

[pahonu]

35 minutes ago, Dadrian said:

@pahonu +1 on every word of that! 

I have to admit it always pains me a bit because the episode often shows up on the list of worst five episodes when forum members pick their least favorites.  I’m glad to hear I’m not alone!  

[Dadrian]

2 hours ago, pahonu said:

I have to admit it always pains me a bit because the episode often shows up on the list of worst five episodes when forum members pick their least favorites.  I’m glad to hear I’m not alone!  

When you watch as much as I (and probably you?) do, it’s impossible to not pick up new things to like every time. Before long, the not-so-good parts of episodes seem much more tolerable because of the good parts. I guess that goes for anything in life, though.  

[pahonu]

10 hours ago, Dadrian said:

When you watch as much as I (and probably you?) do, it’s impossible to not pick up new things to like every time. Before long, the not-so-good parts of episodes seem much more tolerable because of the good parts. I guess that goes for anything in life, though.  

I can’t claim to be as big a fan of the show as you but your greater point about life is accurate.

Edited January 14, 2021 by pahonu

[RedDragon86]

Its one of my favs and I think Mitchell Lichtenstein acting is good throughout. The best of his performance imo was his facial reaction when his father opens up at the end.

[Eillio Martin Imbasciati]

On 1/13/2021 at 7:29 PM, pahonu said:

I agree Dadrian.  I “confess”  to enjoying The Big Thaw because I like seeing the depiction of Rastafarian culture and the reggae music.  I also enjoy Izzy’s antics in this one. Of course, I understand it’s not the highest quality episode there is.

In fact, I find myself less frequently going back to some of the episodes that we would all agree are far better, because they’re often pretty intense and require more focused viewing.

I actually really like 'The Big Thaw', I think it's a hoot all the way around (especially the "What is Life" music video with Niven & his estranged wife. The look on Crockett's face during the video? Priceless to me:-). Vice comedy at its best as far as I'm concerned!

Edited January 15, 2021 by Eillio Martin Imbasciati
substitute the word "wife" for "life"

[Eillio Martin Imbasciati]

On 1/13/2021 at 11:48 PM, Dadrian said:

When you watch as much as I (and probably you?) do, it’s impossible to not pick up new things to like every time. Before long, the not-so-good parts of episodes seem much more tolerable because of the good parts. I guess that goes for anything in life, though.  

I agree, it really does go for anything in life; getting used to things and adjusting because you're ready and aware of it, it definitely can make things go down easier.

[fakespyder]

The first scene before the opening credits is one of the best examples of the use of a song in the entire run of the show. Relax, running for the whole scene and hitting highlights like Sonny pulling down the newspaper or Gina and Trudy pulling their guns. The music was used to great effect and finished perfectly, abruptly with Sonny's "no fire escape" then straight into the opening credits.

Man it was such an energetic start. Makes up for a somewhat meandering episode. A good story but not what I had hoped for given the fantastic start.

 

slightly off topic: I can't remember the name of the show but there was a copy-cat cop show that tried hard to mimic MV. They used Relax too but their scene just didn't work the way MV's did.

[zachbmarsh]

This one just feels really thin. The physical acting from Mark Jr. is kinda good, but almost every time he speaks the line delivery is wooden and flat. But he kinda sells the scenes where he's tweaking out. Other than that, I think we spend so much time building up Mark Sr. that the actual story, of a ruthless criminal being really put in his son's spotlight for the first time, ends up not getting the attention it deserves. Also found Tubbs' mini-monologue near the start ("it's the Uptown junkies who are the saddest") to be REALLY badly written junk that should've been left on the cutting room floor. It's disappointing too because that cold open (with Gus Fring!!!) is pretty great. The one dealer getting shot three times and then inadvertently jumping to his death is some DARK humour ("...no fire escape.") but I loved that part of it. I just wish the rest of the hour was so well-executed. Also liked the warehouse stakeout and I feel like this is the first episode to REALLY use Switek and Zito to their best strengths. 5/10 for me.

[ViceFanMan]

On 1/13/2021 at 10:48 PM, Dadrian said:

When you watch as much as I (and probably you?) do, it’s impossible to not pick up new things to like every time. Before long, the not-so-good parts of episodes seem much more tolerable because of the good parts. I guess that goes for anything in life, though.  

Beautifully put, and I fully agree...especially for MV!!  (except for “Missing Hours” )

[ViceFanMan]

On 6/12/2010 at 1:07 AM, ViceFanMan said:

I didn't really like this episode. It was just about a rich spoiled druggie kid that ends up helping bust his evil drug-dealing father, after bad-daddy had his personal assistant (and the kid's friend) murdered.The only cool thing about this episode was the very beginning and Trudy playing the drug addict needing a fix! That was very believable! The music and/or songs used in this episode were pretty cool too.But, other than that this wasn't really that good an episode. With Trudy's performance at the very beginning and some of the music I rated this one a 5...otherwise I'd of rated it lower.

This was my original review...I have to be honest and say I am more touched and affected by this episode than I used to be. Yes, it’s still about the rich spoiled druggie kid...but there’s so much more going on, here than just that. I completely & fully disagree with & am against illegal drugs of all kinds...but I “feel” for Mark, Jr & why he “chickens” out with the escape he does.

He’s living in a world where he can’t win with his...“hiney-hole” father, no matter what. All he knows is money, material things, and the only true friend...Mary. Then Mary is viscously taken from him, and he reacts like even I probably would! But, then he suddenly actually discovers he has some love & care from his narcissistic father...but it’s too little, too late.

Repeating myself from originally...Trudy’s act as a “junkie” at the beginning was pretty darn awesome & believable—superb performance!! 

Very touching, tragic, and emotional performances by all...very neo-noir, MV style (or with MV is that ‘neon-noir’? )! The music, too is pretty cool! Not a famous one, nor am I a huge fan of this episode...but I think it deserves better than my original rating. If I could re-rate this one, I’d give it a 6.5-7. 

P.S. I love Gina’s hairdo in this one...a little Charlie’s Angels-ish, but I like that!  

Edited March 29, 2021 by ViceFanMan

[Jack Gretsky]

This has a good teaser - Trudy and Gina undercover looking strung-out, Giancarlo Esposito - still young here, but an acting veteran for over 15 years having been in Broadway musicals as a child, the discovery of the rich kid in the shooting gallery (probably inspired by the real-life discovery of one of the young Kennedys in a similar situation earlier in '84), and "No fire escape!" The mix of Frankie Goes to Hollywood's "Relax" isn't my favorite type of remix, but it works well here for building tension. 

Some of the other music cues are interesting choices from Hammer's bouncy "Runaround" to Todd Rundgren's "Tiny Demons," an unusual song; not exactly top 40 fodder. 

This is possibly the weakest of the season 1 episodes, but it says a lot for Season 1 that "Little Prince" is nevertheless watchable, humorous and poignant.  I like the interaction among our crew during the warehouse surveillance. (Like Gina's "Really?" expression regarding Zito and Switeck's cheesecake poster.) Mark sr and Mark jr never quite rise above their WASP stereotypes, but the scene of a tearful Mark jr ripping open his shirt to reveal the wire just after his father has opened up to him for the first time is a memorable image.  Melodramatic, yes, but who wants subtlety at a time like that?

 

 

Edited September 3, 2021 by Jack Gretsky

[Eillio Martin Imbasciati]

13 hours ago, Jack Gretsky said:

This has a good teaser - Trudy and Gina undercover looking strung-out, Giancarlo Esposito - still young here, but an acting veteran for over 15 years having been in Broadway musicals as a child, the discovery of the rich kid in the shooting gallery (probably inspired by the real-life discovery of one of the young Kennedys in a similar situation earlier in '84), and "No fire escape!" The mix of Frankie Goes to Hollywood's "Relax" isn't my favorite type of remix, but it works well here for building tension. 

Some of the other music cues are interesting choices from Hammer's bouncy "Runaround" to Todd Rundgren's "Tiny Demons," an unusual song; not exactly top 40 fodder. 

This is possibly the weakest of the season 1 episodes, but it says a lot for Season 1 that "Little Prince" is nevertheless watchable, humorous and poignant.  I like the interaction among our crew during the warehouse surveillance. (Like Gina's "Really?" expression regarding Zito and Switeck's cheesecake poster.) Mark sr and Mark jr never quite rise above their WASP stereotypes, but the image of a tearful Mark jr ripping open his shirt to reveal the wire just after his father has opened up to him for the first time is a memorable image.  Melodramatic, yes, but who wants subtlety at a time like that?

 

 

Ha ha, Switek & Zito were really stubborn with that poster, weren't they? I feel Vice had a lot of those humorous sequences early on.

[Adrian321]

While I see people who voted this episode a 7/10 or even 8/10 (which is way too much), I consider it HORRIBLE..... in my opinion the weakest S1 episode, 3/10 or 4/10 at most......... just because of the nice views there and there.........  the acting is also...... ok I think......

I think the plot is way too scarce in its engagement with the viewers (us), and seems predictable and silly....... the guest stars also feel like they do not fit.

This episode, with Free verse, Rites of Passage, and French twist put an ugly stain on the first 2 seasons, average episode quallity...... these 2 seasons have the best average episode quality even with these horrible ones; imagine if they didn't exist.........

Edited November 7, 2021 by Adrian321
Forgot something

[cybercop106]

Rewatching the series for the umpteenth time. Still love MV, even though having been a cop most of my life makes a lot of it cringe-worthy. Especially the exposure Crockett and Tubbs get at all the murders, explosions, court appearances, shoot-outs and arrests, standing around with their badges out on neck chains would have blown their cover within a week every time. I just have to ignore that sort of thing to enjoy the rest of it. BUT one thing that really annoys me more than the big stuff that's required to move the whole series along is the silly little stuff that's completely unnecessary, like in this episode where the arresting Deputy starts to read Jorgenson Sr his rights, but says the Constitution requires he advise him of his right to remain silent. Why change our standard warning to something that's not even correct. The 5th Amendment protects you from self-incrimination. The Miranda decision (AZ 1966) is what legally requires us to advise you of that... and actually, only during custodial interrogation.

This was one of the weaker EPs, IMHO, because the acting during most of the low-key emotional scenes was pretty unconvincing. B&E on the warehouse to pretext the surveillance was pretty lame too, since the main characters take great pains throughout the series to proclaim how important 'upholding the law' is to them, and they'd have to lie on reports and in court about it to avoid everything being thrown out under Fruit of the Poisonous Tree doctrine (Silverthorne Lumber vs US 1920, as enshrined by Justice Frankfurter in Nardone vs US 1939). 

Jr ripping open his shirt in silent, overwrought angst after Pops confirmed arranging Mary Mac's muder was pretty amusing tho.