Daytona VS Testarossa. Have at it!

[CameraDaytona]

I would guess the Daytona will hold its own (vs. the Testarossa) in the straight line, but I would stay away from the road courses. It would be really interesting to find out the answer though. (The C3 Corvette chassis, which is basically the same as the C2 chassis developed in the early 60s, needs some significant modification to compete with 80s technology.)

[Sonny-Burnett]

I would guess the Daytona will hold its own (vs. the Testarossa) in the straight line' date=' but I would stay away from the road courses. It would be really interesting to find out the answer though. (The C3 Corvette chassis, which is basically the same as the C2 chassis developed in the early 60s, needs some significant modification to compete with 80s technology.)[/quote'] Another point occurs to me. I let a coworker of mine drive it one day with me and punch it on an open stretch of road. He owns a late model 3 Series BMW turbo AWD and he told me that off the blocks the turbo would probably have me but over a longer distance (1/4 to 1/2 mile) he thought the Daytona would beat his BMW.

[Kavinsky]

I'm not sure truth be told, the Testarossa is just a rebodied 512 Berlina Boxer with 3 radiators for increased cooling, american bumpers, more weight and I think a slightly bigger cabin.(actually just a note of interest apparently the euro spec testas were noticibily lighter than the american ones, specifically with its body like the engine hatch)hell according to the literature the 365 bb would kick the 512 bb's and testarossa's ass and I dont think they did really anything to the handling of it till the 512tr which means the testarossa would be running off of 1970's tech from the 365 BB as well with the corvette it would be the stock engine being set up for a top of 5,000 rev's and about a 120 - 130 top speed,the aerodynamics:jurrasic has mentioned that his car starts to lift up at a 100 but that might be something to do with his cars ride height, which looks higher than normal for a daytona replica, specifically when compaired with the one on the show. and also the vette was designed for american roads not the autostrada and autobahn (but it was also used on the drag strip as well, which was a major consideration at the time the car was designed and on the drag strip cars of that era did reach about a 110 - 120 by the end of the quarter mile) but yet the real daytona has a specific vent underneath it to channel air throught the bottom of the chassis to the rear to prevent lift, either that or to cool the engine (i'm not sure which) and I've also noticed it on aston martins of the time period, but not on the C3 vette of the same eraNow back onto the misc stuff the rear axel is also probably more geared towards gas mileage than acceleration, plus cowl shake from it being a convertibile Handling wise the weight balance would also be a concern with it being noticeably more to the front which has showed up in the show on occasion, causing the thing to fish tail on sharp turns

0:47

0:53 But the flip side applies to the testarossa, here's a sharp corner with the testa, the oversteer not being a result of hittting the corner at too much speed but the placement of the engine

0:36 - 0:47 in car and the same corner from the outside at 0:47 to 0:51and literally the same corner with the daytona from the same street at 1:01http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x16y7x_deux-flics-ay-miami-daytona-replica_autoSo it seems like while the daytona has a tendancy to fish tail around corners at high speeds it seems to be much easier to control, hold the slide and correct with it while with the testarossa it does exactly the same thing on the same corner except because of the placement of the engine its much more hold on and pray than correct and gun it, which would also explain why we never really see it pull off any of the stunts like the daytona used to, its most notabile being the 180" it pulled in down for the count part 2.and I reckon thats nothing a pair of racing shocks, anti roll bars (and all around stiffer suspension components) plus a lowered ride height wouldn't easily nullify on the daytona, but on the flip side it would probably make the ride very harsh and inhospitable on normal roads In conclusion it kinda seems like it would be this kind of a fight, which is really a modern version of the lotus elan vs ferrari fights of the 1960's

except with the viper having the engine in the middle.

[Kavinsky]

Sonny judging by what you've said about yours I think it would be a close fight and you'd probably have him in the corners but even with 400 pounds less weight I think you'd loose in the acceleration race partly because I'm not sure what kind of gearing your car has.if its stock I think it'd be the 3:15's which are geared towards more gas mileage than acceleration, 4:15's are usually the gearing of choice for drag racing but there very hard to live with so it seems like 3:75's are the way to go to get the best of both worlds.also is your car equipped with a carb or does it have fuel injection? Carbs to my knowledge usually provide more horsepower and torque higher up in the rev range alowing the car to gain more speed in the long run.and is your car a manual or an automatic?

[Sonny-Burnett]

0:36 - 0:47 in car and the same corner from the outside at 0:47 to 0:51and literally the same corner with the daytona from the same street at 1:01http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x16y7x_deux-flics-ay-miami-daytona-replica_autoSo it seems like while the daytona has a tendancy to fish tail around corners at high speeds it seems to be much easier to control, hold the slide and correct with it while with the testarossa it does exactly the same thing on the same corner except because of the placement of the engine its much more hold on and pray than correct and gun it, which would also explain why we never really see it pull off any of the stunts like the daytona used to, its most notabile being the 180" it pulled in down for the count part 2.and I reckon thats nothing a pair of racing shocks, anti roll bars (and all around stiffer suspension components) plus a lowered ride height wouldn't easily nullify on the daytona, but on the flip side it would probably make the ride very harsh and inhospitable on normal roads In conclusion it kinda seems like it would be this kind of a fight, which is really a modern version of the lotus elan vs ferrari fights of the 1960's

except with the viper having the engine in the middle.

Very thorough analysis, nice supporting videos, and appreciate the thought that went into this as well. Your comment about "Hold and Pray" when driving the Testa is funny as well because you're right, am not recalling as many stunts as we would see with the Daytona. I never noticed this front vent on the genuine Daytona before --this is to reduce the lifting effect, you think? You know my ride height looks lower than that you have in this picture here. I haven't hit that speed yet with all the mechanical work needed but will likely this spring and test this lifting. I have taken turns at pretty high speed and I don't get much fishtailing but the car does correct pretty fast when it slides. Again, thanks ---great thought and perspective.

[Sonny-Burnett]

Sonny judging by what you've said about yours I think it would be a close fight and you'd probably have him in the corners but even with 400 pounds less weight I think you'd loose in the acceleration race partly because I'm not sure what kind of gearing your car has.if its stock I think it'd be the 3:15's which are geared towards more gas mileage than acceleration' date=' 4:15's are usually the gearing of choice for drag racing but there very hard to live with so it seems like 3:75's are the way to go to get the best of both worlds.also is your car equipped with a carb or does it have fuel injection? Carbs to my knowledge usually provide more horsepower and torque higher up in the rev range alowing the car to gain more speed in the long run.and is your car a manual or an automatic?[/quote'] Well thanks again for your thoughts on this. I don't know my gearing (and not sure where to find out) but it is a carburator and it is also an automatic. Interesting that my McBurnie paperwork indicates I have a 4 barrel Holley carb but this is gone and replaced with a standard carb.

[Sonny-Burnett]

Originally Posted by Kavinsky Sonny judging by what you've said about yours I think it would be a close fight and you'd probably have him in the corners but even with 400 pounds less weight I think you'd loose in the acceleration race partly because I'm not sure what kind of gearing your car has.

I think I will look for the red Testa this summer and see if he wants to find out, somewhere in a quiet stretch of road.....

[Sonny-Burnett]

I would guess the Daytona will hold its own (vs. the Testarossa) in the straight line' date=' but I would stay away from the road courses. It would be really interesting to find out the answer though. (The C3 Corvette chassis, which is basically the same as the C2 chassis developed in the early 60s, needs some significant modification to compete with 80s technology.)[/quote'] CameraDaytona- have you ever taken your Daytona to a track to test performance? Am curious what was like, if so. There is a track here about 30 miles from me and pretty sure they will grant access as a single car. Am adding this to my 'todo list' when it warms up again here.

[Sonny-Burnett]

I would guess the Daytona will hold its own (vs. the Testarossa) in the straight line' date=' but I would stay away from the road courses. It would be really interesting to find out the answer though. (The C3 Corvette chassis, which is basically the same as the C2 chassis developed in the early 60s, needs some significant modification to compete with 80s technology.)[/quote'] As far as the road courses, are you talking about taking turns or something else? I have an upgraded suspension (very firm-for racing) designed for high g turns and cornering. Curious where you think this may be an issue.

[Kavinsky]

Probably the weight balance since the car doesn't have a trans axel and everythings upfront.Sonny if you do actually race the guy on a public road make sure that both of you know the road, that its clear of traffic and its not next to a farm (mud on the road from the tractors going across) and also that the weathers good and the roads dry basically weed out every possibile complication beforehandCarb wise I've read about the holley carbs giving people trouble and that they werent that reliable to begin with so maybe that's why it was replaced on yours, either that or maybe it was just killing the gas mileage on it for the previous owner.

[Sonny-Burnett]

Probably the weight balance since the car doesn't have a trans axel and everythings upfront.Sonny if you do actually race the guy on a public road make sure that both of you know the road' date=' that its clear of traffic and its not next to a farm (mud on the road from the tractors going across) and also that the weathers good and the roads dry basically weed out every possibile complication beforehandCarb wise I've read about the holley carbs giving people trouble and that they werent that reliable to begin with so maybe that's why it was replaced on yours, either that or maybe it was just killing the gas mileage on it for the previous owner.[/quote'] Hm, good advice on the roads, but I think it does have a trans axle as it is a rear drive car. But not sure of the weight balance on it or the Testa. Sounds like the Holley sucked fuel or maybe was prone to failure then.

[Kavinsky]

To my knowlege it wasn't until the C5 of 1996 that the corvette got a transaxelmaybe your suspension is that good that it doesnt really slide the tail out anymore since the race set up removes alot of the slack in it but the engine and the transmition are one unit on both cars and on the vette its either right behind or on the front axel and on the testa it stops right on the rear axel, I think I might be a little hazzy on this thought since its been awhile since I saw the cutouts and read about the weight distribution of both cars.

[roDa]

I love both cars, and I believe the Testarossa has become a classic by today. It was said in this thread that the Daytona was faster, however, I looked for some data and found the Testarossa top speed to be 290 km/h and the Daytona's to be 280 km/h (from Wikipedia). It also says the Daytona has a faster 0-60 acceleration.I could drive any of them any day

[Kavinsky]

the testarossa had its moments but you just couldnt do what you could with the rebodied vette.and the detomaso pantera stunt testarossa was kind of off in some regards.

[Sonny-Burnett]

the testarossa had its moments but you just couldnt do what you could with the rebodied vette.and the detomaso pantera stunt testarossa was kind of off in some regards.

Think roDa is comparing to the real Ferrari Daytona vs the replica. Am recalling the real one was the fastest production car of its day.I don't know what the top speed of a McBurnie is though with the 350. Haven't taken it past 90mph yet.

[Kavinsky]

Yeah but I figured he didnt know it was a replica.the real daytona was 2400 pounds, had a 0 - 60 time of 5.7 seconds and has been actually taken up to a 177 mph top speedwith a 4.4 liter v12 colombo enginethe testarossa had a 4.9 liter engine and I think weighed about a 100 or so pounds extra and I think the us spec cars were even more so it was a little slower in the acceration department and I think the top speed was about 180 but its forerunner which was the predicesor of the daytona the 365 berlina boxer was actually faster than it, atleast until the 512 tr

[Sonny-Burnett]

Yeah but I figured he didnt know it was a replica.the real daytona was 2400 pounds' date=' had a 0 - 60 time of 5.7 seconds and has been actually taken up to a 177 mph top speedwith a 4.4 liter v12 colombo enginethe testarossa had a 4.9 liter engine and I think weighed about a 100 or so pounds extra and I think the us spec cars were even more so it was a little slower in the acceration department and I think the top speed was about 180 but its forerunner which was the predicesor of the daytona the 365 berlina boxer was actually faster than it, atleast until the 512 tr[/quote'] Yep but still curious of the top speed of the 350, if anyone knows....

[Kavinsky]

From what I understand it depends on alot of factors with the engine but just like the V8's of the 1960's and 1970's it probably tops out at about a 120 - 130 and keep in mind that the engine because of its stock parts maxes out at about 5,000 rev's, with a few high performance parts like modified aluminium heads, a high performance crankshaft, improved fans and a few other things you could probably rig it up for 140 + like they did with the 427/428 police interceptor motor for the gt40, which was called a 427 medium riser and took it all the way to about 200 mph.hell that motor is what made that 67' Shelby Super Snake GT500 so special

and they did do the same thing for the C2 Corvette, the Corvette C2 Grand sport was one hell of a racer and was kicking ass on the straights and I think that had a modified 350 on it with roughly the same modshttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet_Corvette_%28C2%29and then theres the power to weight ratio, suspension and the aerodynamics to contend with but I think yours already has those taken care of being 400 pounds ligher than the stock vette with a racing suspension and a custom bodyand one of those guys who worked on that grand sport before GM stupidly killed it has been a corvette tuner since then, dick gulstrandhttp://www.jaylenosgarage.com/at-the-garage/corvette/mr-corvette-dick-guldstrand/http://www.guldstrand.com/and leno was right if it wasnt for the dodge viper and the porsche 911 gm would have never gotten off of there high horse and made the corvette as fast as it is now with the ferrrari killer ZR1, hell those magnatized shocks that ferrari uses were stolen straight off of the corvette C5 which was made specifically to kick the dodge vipers ass

[Sonny-Burnett]

From what I understand it depends on alot of factors with the engine but just like the V8's of the 1960's and 1970's it probably tops out at about a 120 - 130 and keep in mind that the engine because of its stock parts maxes out at about 5' date='000 rev's, with a few high performance parts like modified aluminium heads, a high performance crankshaft, improved fans and a few other things you could probably rig it up for 140 + like they did with the 427/428 police interceptor motor for the gt40, which was called a 427 medium riser and took it all the way to about 200 mph.and then theres the power to weight ratio, suspension and the aerodynamics to contend with but I think yours already has those taken care of being 400 pounds ligher than the stock vette with a racing suspension and a custom body[/quote'] Thanks for this info. Disappointing if true however --have driven a mid 80's 4 cylinder Audi faster than that and this machine has 8 cylinders.

[Kavinsky]

You'd be surprised at what audi's cars were capabile of back then, thanks to the quattro and the sport quattro there technolgical capabilities are amazing today.alot of stuff that your seeing as optional equipment on the porsches nowadays were first put on the sport quattro for group b like that double clutch system, the subsequential gearbox along with a selectable differential you could turn on and off for both the front and rear axels and this is a 5 Clyinder Turbocharged car with a 50/50 4 wheel drive system with 200 hp and the race version had about 550.

but keep in mind they use there cars on the autobahn all the time so they have almost an automatic advantage because of that above all the us made cars speedwise althought most Mercs and BMW's are limited to 155 mph because of the cost of the tires and other things if they went any fasterand gm was basically selling the same cars as they did in the 1970's in the 80's with little or no changes except to the bodywork and with less horsepower because of the emmisions bull**** like gulstrand said and because there was no american competition and that's also the reason why people held on to the old muscle cars too (Like Nash's 426 cuda') they were still at the top of their game horsepower wise up till the early 90's in the USalthough towards the end of the 80's the corvette started to pick up HP and speed again because of the viper project that was announced in 88' and the fact that chryslerhad lamborghini (which they owned at that time) build them the aluminum V10 motor they used in it, basically if it wasnt for the viper there'd be no C6 or C4 ZR1 period.

[roDa]

Think roDa is comparing to the real Ferrari Daytona vs the replica. Am recalling the real one was the fastest production car of its day.I don't know what the top speed of a McBurnie is though with the 350. Haven't taken it past 90mph yet.

I was comparing the real Daytona to the Testarossa. Here you have what I found:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferrari_Testarossa#Enginehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferrari_Daytona#Vehicle_specificationsPerhaps wiki is wrong, any moron can edit it lol

[Kavinsky]

seems to be off by about 5 - 10 kph there, daytona was about 177 testarossa was 180 and the 512tr testarossa was 192it was one of the fastest cars of its time but there was a few that beat it, the gt40 at 200 and the 917 at according to the lit 230 mph.plus that porsche 906 that he raced was probably just as fast as the real daytona.

[Sonny-Burnett]

I was comparing the real Daytona to the Testarossa. Here you have what I found:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferrari_Testarossa#Enginehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferrari_Daytona#Vehicle_specificationsPerhaps wiki is wrong' date=' any moron can edit it lol [/quote'] No worries, that's what I meant to say above. You probably already realized anyway we mostly talk in here about the replica Daytona as it is the car used in the show. But the real Daytona Spyder is an incredible car, no doubt. So keep on posting!

[Kavinsky]

Sorry I just gotta post this since I'm watching S3 right now and I finally figured out why I like certain Testarossa's and not others from the front, its the turn signal indicators on the bumper.on the latter ones (1989 - 1992 I think) it had a much better looking set of turn signal indicators that aleviated the attention the yellow indicators of the early testarossas (like the 1985/1986 MV car) brough to the top of the bumper that protrudes over the grill.and you can see that here in this photo, on the testarossa the bumper is not completely flat http://www.flickr.com/photos/whitebeard/5053644351/but they did fix that for the 512tr and the M but screwed up the rest of the bumper on the 512TR and then fixed that and then screwed up the REST of the car with the 512m, the idiots.and thats how it looked FROM THE FACTORY!1986 testarossahttp://www.miamiviceonline.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=4470&stc=1&d=1312608579post 1987 testarossahttp://www.miamiviceonline.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=4471&stc=1&d=1312608635Side by Sidehttp://www.miamiviceonline.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=4473&stc=1&d=1312609092and 2 other post 1987 testarossas:

Still if I was going for one I'd go for one with the Koenig front bumper but with the stock headlights, grill and stock everything else and have the black splinter/Accents added to the bottom the Koenig bumper to match the rest of the carOr have the 512m's front bumper put on but with yellow turn signal indicators and stock everything else unlike this car:http://www.miamiviceonline.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=4472&stc=1&d=1312609091

[Kavinsky]

Just found this on youtube, kind of a sad end for the testarossa

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Y9hDzleIn8

and I gotta wonder if this is the same daytona conversion that we saw in the second season of the show, just without the chopped off seats of the coupe

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_sCzm-QzAYs