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rodriguezisdead

Season 3: Overall Assessment

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rodriguezisdead    14
rodriguezisdead

Season 3 definitely is very dark - arguably the most dark of all Seasons as even in Season 5 we see glimpses of a new and lighter Sonny at times. Season 1 & 2 in comparison are obviously full of far more pastels and even the content is often lighter and even comical at times. Season 3 in comparison only seems to get lighter towards the end with perhaps some of the last 3 or 4 eps. I've also mentioned several times before elsewhere that IMO this is the Season that really begins to mark the beginning of the 'rot' in Sonny. If you are looking for some of the reasons behind Sonny's total disenchantment with 'the System' and for his 'burn-out' by the end of Season 4, then you don't need to look much further than several eps in Season 3 - Forgive Us Our Debts, Good Collar, Theresa, By Hooker By Crook, Stone's War, The Savage, Streetwise, El Viejo, Down for the Count... the list is long but they all must leave deep marks on Sonny - 'good guys' repeatedly die, lovers repeatedly betray, the Justice System repeatedly fails... need we go on with the catalogue of body-blows ? Top 10 Eps:1 - Forgive Us Our Debts - 10/10 - Beginning of the Hackman saga, IMO MV's finest hour, hence the score. A more shocking final twist in MV simply does not exist. Masterfully crafted plot. Sonny's final look of disbelief alone is worth the score. Heart-breaking stuff for any committed law-enforcer.2 - Shadow in the Dark - 9/10 - Showcasing one of DJ's best performances of the entire show's run. Unique and frightening plot for MV. One of those rare eps that stuck in my mind for 20 years.3 - The Savage - 9/10 - A very good, but certainly not outstanding ep, is raised to another level by the final artistically beautiful scene alone. Castillo reads us a letter from an old friend that can make you think for days on end.4 - The Good Collar - 8.5/10 - Another superb performance from DJ, coupled with some excellent writing and music for the last couple of scenes in particular, make this an unforgettably sad episode.5 - Walk Alone - 8.5/10 - Gut-wrenchingly sickening episode as upon first viewing I thought throughout that Rico could really get hurt in this one. Super music to accompany the great final Castillo-led escape scene.6 - Theresa - 8.5/10 - A man desperate to love and to be loved is betrayed. Superb performance from DJ is again accompanied by a strong script and some beautifully intense colours.7 - Stone's War - 8.5/10 - Sonny fails to protect an old colleague, however annoying, from becoming another victim of a Government cover-up. Super final shot in an ep full of great camerawork. We also get the Testarossa!8 - By Hooker By Crook - 8.5/10 - Once again another very good ep, but probably not one outstanding in and of itself, is raised to highly memorable and classic status by the final scene alone. Simply Red and Sonny left alone fishing on his boat under a brilliant sky is another of those scenes you can't shake from your head even if seen over 20 years ago.9 - Heroes of the Revolution - 8.5/10 - A personal fave, albeit perhaps not everyone's cup of tea, helped by Saundra Santiago looking stunning, acting well, but singing even better. Yes, singing! Jazz tracks and club scene/colours add to the mesmerising atmosphere.10 - Streetwise - 8/10 - More strong and thoughtful acting from DJ and some good scripting for an ep circling around one of the central themes of MV, ie the difficulties of life undercover. 3 Weakest Eps:1 - The Afternoon Plane - big let down to the Calderone saga, clock-watching after 20 minutes.2 - Viking Bikers from Hell - appalling acting from the bikers, weak writing.3 - Baby Blues - could have been far more complex in the issues raised, failed to pull at the heartstrings. I was intending to put just a top 20 scenes/moments together but I found at least 40 moments I loved - so here they all are and I've only ranked the top 10, then 11-20 and 21-40 as separate 'groupings' as I can't decide between them. Enjoy...try testing yourself perhaps - how many of these scenes can you remember ?! Definitely one day I'd like to put a DVD together like Tony D was talking about a while back, just capturing these moments. One for each Season would be awesome ! Top 10/Most memorable Scenes/Moments from Season 3: 1 - Forgive Us Our Debts - Sonny's expression at the end when Hackman comes clean2 - The Good Collar - Sonny's out-of-control reaction to the death of the child wearing the wire3 - By Hooker By Crook - final scene on boat with Simply Red track playing4 - The Good Collar - Sonny throwing the football in the trash can and walking alone back to the Testarossa5 - The Savage - Final scene with C&T and Castillo on the beach as the camera pans away whilst Castillo reads Trang's letter - clear sky, water, beach, thought-provoking words6 - Stone's War - Final scene when Sonny hears about the Government cover-up over the radio on his boat7 - Theresa - Sonny & Doctor discussing Theresa in the hospital - great scripting and acting, especially when Doc suggests Theresa might blame him for ruining her career - well-researched8 - Theresa - Sonny & Theresa arguing at the night waterfront - great scipt and great acting from DJ against a beautiful backdrop9 - Stone's War - Sonny & Castillo discussing the replacement for the Daytona - 'It's out back' followed by the classic moment when C&T first see the Testarossa10 - When Irish Eyes Are Crying - Daytona Explosion and Sonny's expression and the reflection in his shades, but the entire scene is also full of beautiful colour co-ordination with the grey/white sand and C&T's clothing These lie somewhere between 11 to 20 for me... just having trouble ranking them! Walk Alone - Final escape scene - music and Castillo steal the showWalk Alone - Rico gets beat-up - if never seen before you worry they might beat him to death or at the least you're convinced he's going to be hospitalisedForgive Us Our Debts - Sonny drives out to see Hackman and the conversation they holdShadow in the Dark - Sonny & Castillo conversing in the cafeStone's War - C&T sweeping the house where Stone was being kept earlierBy Hooker By Crook - camera training on almost all OCB team as they find out who CVM really is - all gutted for Sonny, especially GinaBy Hooker By Crook - artistic scene in interview room with CVM and Sonny - beautiful colours and directingKnock, Knock... Who's There? - Pink final shootout of Sonny vs Montoya - Sonny's wide-open eyes as Montoya reloads speak volumes about the core of his survival techniquesTheresa - Sonny alone with his thoughts in the Testarossa at the endHeroes of the Revolution - Gina comes clean to Castillo about her conflict of interests - great writing and acting - as ever with Castillo, so few words are ever necessary, but his manner and expression says it all And here are another 20 moments that must lie somewhere between numbers 21 to 40 for me... but again would be splitting-hairs to rank them! Stone's War - Intro Scene with all the fighting and death looks like a movie with great musicStone's War - Cornering the judge in the lift - great claustrophobic cameraworkShadow in the Dark - Sonny waking-up from a dream - or was it??Killshot - Sonny rushing (and failing) to prevent the suicide of the brother as the final freeze-frameStreetwise - Sonny pleading with his eyes that the hooker will now clean up her act - followed by the revelation that she obviously has notStreetwise - C&T staring out of the window at night at the building in neons - symbolism with the main theme of the ep of undercover work and of keeping a check on the man in the mirrorLend Me an Ear - meal at the harbour with C&T and Duddy - interesting discussion on paranoiaLend Me an Ear - scene infiltrating Dykstra's place, avoiding lasers and getting-caughtRed Tape - first scene is over 3 mins of completely uncut shot - Testarossa arrives, C&T get out and walk along the sidewalk, camera moves around to get the sky as a backdrop, then back again as they walk to the corner next to the HotelRed Tape - deep pink dusk skyline captured just before they cut to McIntyre with his woman at the balconyKnock, Knock... Who's There? - Sonny reading the arrest statement at the end then pausing after her reply 'You woulda done the same if it was your son...'Knock, Knock... Who's There? - Castillo refusing to get out of the way of the IAD agent, instead glaring at him as he passed.Viking Bikers From Hell - C&T sweeping the 12th floor apartmentEverybody's In Showbiz - Final freeze-frame as Sonny walks out of the hospital knowing they've been connedEverybody's In Showbiz - C&T realising in the Testarossa that Mikey might have been conning them, then swinging the car round in a rush and heading back to the hospitalHeroes of the Revolution - Tubbs line to the paranoid cab driver: 'Do I look like a Russian to you?' is potentially the funniest moment of the Season (leaving aside Izzie's antics of course...)Theresa - Sonny standing-up from Arzola getting run-down by the BMW with the red sky as a backdropDown for the Count (Pt 1) - Don King in his kitchen with C&T - so clear how much fun DJ and PMT are enjoying this sceneDown for the Count (Pt 2) - Lawyer cries like a baby in front of the Las Vegas mobster on the hotel apartment balcony with beautiful blue skies panning-out as a backdropCuba Libre - great pinks and greens at the party in the intro where the cop gets shot

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Guest neworder   
Guest neworder

I've always found Season 3 a difficult one to judge overall. The first half is ultimately (except Killshot) a fantastic run but once Down for the Count passes, the Season tumbles into a very mediocre affair with only Lend Me An Ear and Red Tape exciting me. This time around on .ws Season 3 scored an average from me of 6.75 with is 0.05 lower than my ratings on .org. I wasn't as forgiving this time around for Everybody's in Showbiz which dropped from a 4 to a 2. This episode is a travesty and easily the weakest of the season. Season 3 disappoints me in the 2nd half, it's consistently dull or boring with little action, a lack of decent music. You can also tell that Jan Hammer is getting tired of the Vice process, a lot of music is re-used and sometimes very repetitive. But Season 3 also boasts some of the strongest episodes of the whole series, these were some of my favourites;Stones War The Good Collar Shadow in the dark El Viego Better Living Through ChemistryForgive us our debts Down for the count 2 Lend Me an Ear and Red Tape There are some terrific episodes, great action in the first half of the season and style is different from Season 2 but on top form. But then the style get's ****, the action fewer and far between and the stories boring. Another crucial thing to note, I didn't rate any episode 10/10 in Season 3. Sure some episodes were reasonably close but, there weren't any absolutely amazing or ground breaking episodes in this season. I do like the change in direction that was taken in season 3. I often prefer the darker colour choices and the darker story-lines but they ran out of ideas. Plus the Season premier and finales were the worst of the whole series. So overall. An amazing first half of Season that matched Season 2's quality, but the 2nd half is the most consistently boring run of Miami Vice because Season 4/5 managed to at-least throw in the odd amazing episode amongst a few rubbish one's.

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ViceFanMan    198
ViceFanMan

I know there were some changes with Season 3...there wasn't as much pastel with the clothes, Crockett gets a new Ferrari & sunglasses, and his haircut is different. I also think there were new writers...so the storyline of Tubbs' baby son (who was really still alive) from season 2 was never returned to or given closure. :confused:But, I still think Season 3 is awesome and enjoyable! :clap: There was still plenty of pastels for the colors of buildings and sets, and I liked Crockett's Testarossa better anyway. ;) However, I do wish he'd of kept his tortoise shell Wayfarers instead of the black things he was wearing in this season. :cool:But, despite some changes the acting was still superb, the episodes/plots were for the most part still awesome, a lot of the music used was phenomenal :radio: , still loved Jan Hammer's themes used throughout, the fashion was still interesting and fun to look at, the action was still there, etc...My favorite episode of Season 3 is "Shadow in the Dark"! It's wild, freaky, something they'd never done before, the acting/colors/filming locations/suspense were perfect :clap: , and I loved it that the episode was based off a real-life case! :eek:But, there were a few other episodes that I also felt were the best or most enjoyable of the season/show, and ones I love watching...which are:"When Irish Eyes Are Crying""El Viejo""Better Living Through Chemistry""Streetwise""Forgive Us Our Debts""Cuba Libre""Duty and Honor""Theresa""The Afternoon Plane""Lend Me an Ear""By Hooker By Crook""Heroes of the Revolution"Some other enjoyable or watchable episodes, but not necessarily the "best" are:"Killshot""Walk Alone""The Good Collar""Baby Blues""Down For the Count" Pts. 1&2"Red Tape""Knock, Knock, Who's There?"Some of the bad/weak, or least enjoyable episodes are:"Stone's War""Viking Bikers From Hell""Everybody's in Showbiz" Overall I love Season 3...and even with the few changes, I still think it's "Miami Vice"! :thumbsup:

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Matt5    1,919
Matt5

But, I still think Season 3 is awesome and enjoyable! :clap: There was still plenty of pastels for the colors of buildings and sets, and I liked Crockett's Testarossa better anyway. ;) However, I do wish he'd of kept his tortoise shell Wayfarers instead of the black things he was wearing in this season. :cool:But, despite some changes the acting was still superb, the episodes/plots were for the most part still awesome, a lot of the music used was phenomenal :radio: , still loved Jan Hammer's themes used throughout, the fashion was still interesting and fun to look at, the action was still there, etc...My favorite episode of Season 3 is "Shadow in the Dark"! It's wild, freaky, something they'd never done before, the acting/colors/filming locations/suspense were perfect :clap: , and I loved it that the episode was based off a real-life case! :eek:But, there were a few other episodes that I also felt were the best or most enjoyable of the season/show, and ones I love watching...which are:"When Irish Eyes Are Crying""El Viejo""Better Living Through Chemistry""Streetwise""Forgive Us Our Debts""Cuba Libre""Duty and Honor""Theresa""The Afternoon Plane""Lend Me an Ear""By Hooker By Crook""Heroes of the Revolution"Some other enjoyable or watchable episodes, but not necessarily the "best" are:"Killshot""Walk Alone""The Good Collar""Baby Blues""Down For the Count" Pts. 1&2"Red Tape""Knock, Knock, Who's There?"Some of the bad/weak, or least enjoyable episodes are:"Stone's War""Viking Bikers From Hell""Everybody's in Showbiz" Overall I love Season 3...and even with the few changes, I still think it's "Miami Vice"! :thumbsup:

Love Season 3 - great look and style . Looks much more modern and updated than Season 2.:thumbsup::D

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ViceFanMan    198
ViceFanMan

Love Season 3 - great look and style . Looks much more modern and updated than Season 2.:thumbsup::D

Yes...great look and style. :cool: However' date=' I don't know if I think it's more "updated" than season 2...just [i']different. Season 2 is my favorite season and I actually prefer the style and colors of that season. Season 3 tried some different things with the fashion than the previous two seasons...and it was stylish but not quite as popular with most fans as before. Pastels were still very much in style in 1987, and I think fans were like...this was the trademark signature of the show...where are they? However, the pastels were still very much prevalent on buildings in in rooms in season 3--which in my opinion really helped it still be awesome! :thumbsup:

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Matt5    1,919
Matt5

different. Season 2 is my favorite season and I actually prefer the style and colors of that season. Season 3 tried some different things with the fashion than the previous two seasons...and it was stylish but not quite as popular with most fans as before. Pastels were still very much in style in 1987, and I think fans were like...this was the trademark signature of the show...where are they? However, the pastels were still very much prevalent on buildings in in rooms in season 3--which in my opinion really helped it still be awesome! :thumbsup:

Yes good points vicefsnman . :thumbsup::D

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AzVice    100
AzVice

Season 3 still had a lot of quality episode's. You can see right away Dick Wolf's change's to the show. Season 2 used a lot of sets done in pastel colors. After that they went for a realistic look. The second half of the season fell off in quality. Theresa, Lend Me An Ear and By Hooker By Crook stand out. They went to 24 episode's which probably lowered the quality. The humor and lighter moment's from the first two season's  fell away. When they tried to get them back they ventured more into silliness.

I'm not a fan of Wolf's time on the show. To me when Mann and John Nicolella stepped away from the show it lost a lot.

Really the last 4 episodes of the season were all average at best

Edited by AzVice
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ArtieRollins    194
ArtieRollins

Episode 46 - When Irish Eyes Are Crying 6/10

Not on the same level as the first episode of Season 1 and 2, but I kind of liked it, even though it drowned out a bit with the whole fast forward romance part between Gina and Sean. I think Jeff Fahey might have fitted the role of Sean better than Liam though, he just comes off as a bit too stiff.

Episode 47 - Stone's War 5/10

Episode 48 - Killshot 6/10

Episode 49 - Walk Alone 6,5/10

Episode 50 - The Good Collar 8/10

The first really great Miami Vice classic in season 3. It took some episodes out to get there, but this one I can watch over and over again.

Episode 51 - Shadow in the Dark 4/10

Poor man's Manhunter, and an episode I'll probably never watch again.

Episode 52 - El Viejo 5/10

Episode 53 - Better Living Through Chemistry 5,5/10

Episode 54 - Baby Blues 6,5/10

One of many episodes that deserved a much better villain, this one was more goofy lookin' than scary.

Episode 55 - Streetwise 6/10

One of the first Miami Vice episodes I saw, and even though it is not one of the great ones, I give an extra point to the beautiful ladies, especially Trudy and Gina in their street outfits. 

Episode 56 - Forgive Us Our Debts 5,5/10

Great beginning and end, but nothing too special. Again weakend by having too goofy/comic looking bad guys instead of more menacing ones. 

Episode 57 - Down For The Count" (Part 1) 8,5/10

Episode 58 - Down For The Count" (Part 2) 8/10

Now were talking. I have lost count on how many times I have watched these two episodes. The end scene with Switek finding Zito in the showers is heartbreaking and I really am glad Stan got his revenge later on. Guzman and his goons might come off as more sleazy than goofy looking, but you know he means buiness and is not to kid around with.

The first part is a little bit better than second one, as I felt it was too rushed in the last 7-8 minutes, and Would loved too see more of Joe Dallesandro as he made Guzman look like a little kid, the scene with Sordoni was truly great. Thats the kind of bad guy I wanted to see more of in Miami Vice, an ice cold psychopath and not the too often used cartoonish/goofy ones that you forget within a few seconds.

The music by both Jan Hammer and guest musicians were top notch, I liked how Evan or was it Talk? was used in the beginning of Part 2 with clips from Part 1, very powerful.

Episode 59 - Cuba Libre 5/10

Episode 60 - Duty and Honor 6/10

Episode 61 - Theresa 7,5/10

Episode 62 - The Afternoon Plane 5/10

Episode 63 - Lend Me an Ear 6,5/10

Episode 64 - Red Tape 7/10

Episode 65 - By Hooker by Crook 6/10

Episode 66 - Knock Knock...Who's There? 5/10

Episode 67 - Viking Bikers From Hell 4/10

Episode 68 - Everybody's In Showbiz... 4,5/10

Episode 69 - Heroes of the Revolution 5/10

That's it, season 3 is done for now. I was a little surprised by how much I enjoyed it and compared to season 2, the only reason why I end up with a weaker rating, is that it just doesen't pack any episodes that comes near Miami Vice epics like, The Prodigal Son or Out Where the Buses Don't Run.

Best episodes: Down For The Count" (Part 1)The Good CollarDown For The Count (Part 2), Theresa and Red Tape

Worst Episodes: Viking Bikers From HellShadow in the Dark and Everybody's In Showbiz...

6,5/10 

Is my final rating of season 3.

I have already began on season 4 and after only 3-4 episodes in, it looks like I am in for a rather huge task finding any top quality from here on.

Edited by ArtieRollins

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Tony D.    804
Tony D.

@Artie......I always find "top quality" from Miami Vice! 

Especially, when you are starting so early in season 4. Yes there are some poor episodes, but there are also many strong ones & even great moments in those poor episodes.

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AzVice    100
AzVice

yeah maybe we should have a thread where we discuss how we rate. For me a 6 is basically an average tv show, Most miami vice episodes , for me, are 7 and above. Only a few like Cows of October, The Big Thaw, Missing Hours and Borrasca drop down to 5 and below.

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ArtieRollins    194
ArtieRollins
22 minutes ago, AzVice said:

. For me a 6 is basically an average tv show, Most miami vice episodes , for me, are 7 and above

My rating system is not flawless but it is one I have used as long as I can remember when it comes to rating TV shows/episodes, movies, albums etc.

10/10 = Masterpiece of perfection

 9/10 = Fantastic

 8/10 = Great

 7/10 = Good

 6/10 = Decent/better

 5/10 = Average/mediocre

 4/10 = Below average/poor

 3/10 = Bad

 2/10 = Very bad

 1/10 = Horrible/unwatchable

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ArtieRollins    194
ArtieRollins
On 10.8.2016 at 3:42 PM, Tony D. said:

Especially, when you are starting so early in season 4. Yes there are some poor episodes, but there are also many strong ones & even great moments in those poor episodes.

After witnessing what has to be two of the worst Miami Vice episodes so far, (Amen... Send Money & the close to unbearable The Big Thaw), almost thinking about throwing in the towel for some time, suddenly you get Child's Play & God's Work, two great ones and I know what episode is up next, so I'll leave it for now, but then again it has been so long since the last time I watched Missing Hours, so who knows, I might end up enjoying it. 

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Tony D.    804
Tony D.

LOL, I like "The Big Thaw," Artie........some funny wisecracks and it's a blast when they are all yelling at each other at the end while the poor frozen dude is melting in the water.

"Missing Hours" is another story.

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Matt5    1,919
Matt5
On 8/10/2016 at 2:42 PM, Tony D. said:

@Artie......I always find "top quality" from Miami Vice! 

Especially, when you are starting so early in season 4. Yes there are some poor episodes, but there are also many strong ones & even great moments in those poor episodes.

I agree Tony! Great point :D:fireworks:

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Tommy Vercetti    181
Tommy Vercetti
On 17/08/2016 at 3:00 AM, Tony D. said:

 

"Missing Hours" is another story.

It's Star Wars Holiday Special level bad

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Matt5    1,919
Matt5
On 8/17/2016 at 3:00 AM, Tony D. said:

LOL, I like "The Big Thaw," Artie........some funny wisecracks and it's a blast when they are all yelling at each other at the end while the poor frozen dude is melting in the water.

"Missing Hours" is another story.

I agree "Missing Hours " I just cant comprehend why they shot that episode. The Big Thaw had some good moments:D:D

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Remington    127
Remington

Ok here we go

1 Shadow In The Dark

2 Forgive Us Our Debts 

3 Lend Me An Ear

4 Stone's War

5 The Savage

6 Down For The Count

7 Red Tape

8 When Irish Eyes Are Crying

9 By Hooker, By Crook

10 El Viejo

11 Baby Blues

12 Walk Alone

13 Better Living Through Chemistry

14 Streetwise

15 Cuba Libre

16 The Afternoon Plane

17 Killshot

18 Heroes Of The Revolution

19 Viking Bikers From Hell

20 Theresa

21 The Good Collar

22 Knock, Knock, Who's There?

23 Everybody's In Showbiz

Overall, this was a damn fine season. However, S1 and S2 are superior. The main things holding S3 back is its increased focus on melodrama and the dreariness of the later episodes. But on the plus side, the new look kept the series fresh. Even more unique because I've never seen another show with this look.

How I'd rate the seasons so far.

S1 - 9.5/10

S2 - 9/10

S3 - 8/10

Looking forward to S4.

Edited by Remington

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Remington    127
Remington

It's funny. The production values seem to be at an all time high, mainly during the first half of the season.

By the last few episodes, it seems like the life has been almost drained from it.

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