Season 3: Overall Assessment

[Matt5]

Loved Season 3 and every Season of Miami Vice. The best show ever and it evolved through the five years.

[RedDragon86]

7/10 Starts strong but goes downhill after "Down For The Count P2

 

Edited June 12, 2019 by RedDragon86

[BunMVO]

6 hours ago, RedDragon86 said:

 Testarossa is a beautiful car but the camera needs a convertible, looks to crammed in with the Testa. I think they started to realize this because sometimes Tubbs would drive Crockett in his convertible, like in "Shadow In The Dark"  even though his car was available. 

A Testarossa convertible would have been awesome.

[RedDragon86]

1 hour ago, pmconroy said:

A Testarossa convertible would have been awesome.

This would have been great, so much better to film C&T, more freedom and room for better shots from the camera.

 

[RedDragon86]

I am almost finished watching season 3, I don't know what it is but my 4th time watching this season I have enjoyed it much more.

Edited March 18, 2020 by RedDragon86

[Kladdagh]

Currently on the 3rd season ... I still enjoying the stories ... I like the "dark tone" on the episodes. 

[summer84]

Having rewatched S3 I still am not a fan of the different style, darker tone or Crockett's haircut, it made DJ's face look different. And I liked how he looked in the first two seasons the best. I think "Cuba Libre" was the first episode, where the white suit was brought back, (which was nice to see, after watching Crockett mostly wearing those boring grey jacket's and green.) I'm guessing since the ratings were starting to drop. And after that episode some colors were reintroduced and continued till the season finale. The first half of season 3 had some solid story lines, where the second half was a mix of good and bad quality episodes. I wish, that new music had been created instead of reusing old Jan Hammer tunes, which were so associated/strongly connected with the episodes it was made for in S1 and S2, therefor sometimes it could seem out of place. Like in "Better Living Through Chemistry" throughout they used JH Asian music, which was odd and a bad fit. They sometimes just placed his music in bad places. Another example playing Crockett's theme in "Cuba Libre" could have been chosen in a better scene, than this non interesting car driving scene. But it's always great hearing it. And I liked the new piece "Klaus's" theme. It was mostly Crockett in the forefront and it felt as Tubbs just followed along was pushed in the background. But he got four episodes of his own, although I would have liked it being more equal or buddy cop like. Also often they showed the whole team joining in an undercover operation, which I liked. I think the storylines were deeper and richer in places like the "The Good Collar" for instance. It became predictable, that the bad guys were usually shot at the end. Overall I'm not a fan of this season, it's different feel and tone. I missed the atmosphere and tone from the first two seasons. But there are some episodes I did like and could rewatch again: "Stones war," "The Good Collar," "El Viejo" not because of the storyline, but the music and some scenes, "Baby Blues," "DFTC" part1," "Lend me and ear," "KKWT," "Everybody's in Showbiz," yes I kind of liked this one. I also think maybe "Theresa," "Streetwise" and "Walk Alone." I liked "Theresa" much better first time around, but it's still a good episode. I think my favorite now is "KKWT," as it's a personal storyline and I liked those best, it's maybe weird as it's one of the darkest visually, but the story was so good that it wasn't that important. My least favorite is "Killshot." "Better living through chemistry" had potential, but among it the bad acting by all of the guest stars ruined the experience for me. And I liked that Crockett was nicer to Izzy in this season. Also forgot to add, that Tubbs was really well dressed in this Season. 

Edited May 20, 2020 by summer84

[RedDragon86]

On 5/20/2020 at 10:38 PM, summer84 said:

Having rewatched S3 I still am not a fan of the different style, darker tone or Crockett's haircut, it made DJ's face look different. And I liked how he looked in the first two seasons the best. I think "Cuba Libre" was the first episode, where the white suit was brought back, (which was nice to see, after watching Crockett mostly wearing those boring grey jacket's and green.) I'm guessing since the ratings were starting to drop. And after that episode some colors were reintroduced and continued till the season finale. The first half of season 3 had some solid story lines, where the second half was a mix of good and bad quality episodes. I wish, that new music had been created instead of reusing old Jan Hammer tunes, which were so associated/strongly connected with the episodes it was made for in S1 and S2, therefor sometimes it could seem out of place. Like in "Better Living Through Chemistry" throughout they used JH Asian music, which was odd and a bad fit. They sometimes just placed his music in bad places. Another example playing Crockett's theme in "Cuba Libre" could have been chosen in a better scene, than this non interesting car driving scene. But it's always great hearing it. And I liked the new piece "Klaus's" theme. It was mostly Crockett in the forefront and it felt as Tubbs just followed along was pushed in the background. But he got four episodes of his own, although I would have liked it being more equal or buddy cop like. Also often they showed the whole team joining in an undercover operation, which I liked. I think the storylines were deeper and richer in places like the "The Good Collar" for instance. It became predictable, that the bad guys were usually shot at the end. Overall I'm not a fan of this season, it's different feel and tone. I missed the atmosphere and tone from the first two seasons. But there are some episodes I did like and could rewatch again: "Stones war," "The Good Collar," "El Viejo" not because of the storyline, but the music and some scenes, "Baby Blues," "DFTC" part1," "Lend me and ear," "KKWT," "Everybody's in Showbiz," yes I kind of liked this one. I also think maybe "Theresa," "Streetwise" and "Walk Alone." I liked "Theresa" much better first time around, but it's still a good episode. I think my favorite now is "KKWT," as it's a personal storyline and I liked those best, it's maybe weird as it's one of the darkest visually, but the story was so good that it wasn't that important. My least favorite is "Killshot." "Better living through chemistry" had potential, but among it the bad acting by all of the guest stars ruined the experience for me. And I liked that Crockett was nicer to Izzy in this season. 

 I feel the same way, I enjoy this season but that special vibe of the show evaporated.

What made this show famous was it was high-spirited and cool, so full of energy, like Scarface turned into a TV show. 

 

Edited September 1, 2020 by RedDragon86

[summer84]

52 minutes ago, RedDragon86 said:

 I feel the same way, I enjoy this season but that special vibe of the show evaporated.

What made this show famous was it was high-spirited and cool, so full of energy, like Scarface turned into a TV show. When season 3 arrived they ditched all of that and it became dull, nihilistic and too political.

 

Exactly. You described it well. They still had some of the well known elements, which made Vice famous like the use of music and nontraditional camera angles, but the issue is just that it wasn't presented in the same magical way, not even Miami, as when MM was still at Vice and the old production crew before handing the control over to Dick Wolf. It wasn't their primary focus. As they wanted to make more serious storylines, so all of the flash was pushed in the background. But I also think the NBC executives were responsible for the new direction of season 3. To me a few episodes had the old S1 and S2 vibe with certain scenes. And I also like, when they brought back the humor in this very dark toned and depressing season, which was also an important part of MV and made it feel more natural and balanced, when there was some of both. And also they didn't have new music by JH to create those certain emotions and feel to a scene, nor were the old tunes used much.

Edited May 20, 2020 by summer84

[TylerDurden389]

While I agree about not liking the change to Don's look in season 3, I gotta admit, after recently rewatching El Viejo and Forgive Us Our Debts, I kinda like that dark gray suit Don wears in those episodes (it's the same one). I don't like the dark green shirt, but I like the style/pattern of the suit. No giant shoulder pads or pleated slacks. Just a regular fitted outfit that works for almost all occasions. Pair it up with a white collared shirt and a pastel-green/blue tie and you can totally rep the Miami Vice look without being too obvious.

[Matt5]

On 5/20/2020 at 10:38 PM, summer84 said:

Having rewatched S3 I still am not a fan of the different style, darker tone or Crockett's haircut, it made DJ's face look different. And I liked how he looked in the first two seasons the best. I think "Cuba Libre" was the first episode, where the white suit was brought back, (which was nice to see, after watching Crockett mostly wearing those boring grey jacket's and green.) I'm guessing since the ratings were starting to drop. And after that episode some colors were reintroduced and continued till the season finale. The first half of season 3 had some solid story lines, where the second half was a mix of good and bad quality episodes. I wish, that new music had been created instead of reusing old Jan Hammer tunes, which were so associated/strongly connected with the episodes it was made for in S1 and S2, therefor sometimes it could seem out of place. Like in "Better Living Through Chemistry" throughout they used JH Asian music, which was odd and a bad fit. They sometimes just placed his music in bad places. Another example playing Crockett's theme in "Cuba Libre" could have been chosen in a better scene, than this non interesting car driving scene. But it's always great hearing it. And I liked the new piece "Klaus's" theme. It was mostly Crockett in the forefront and it felt as Tubbs just followed along was pushed in the background. But he got four episodes of his own, although I would have liked it being more equal or buddy cop like. Also often they showed the whole team joining in an undercover operation, which I liked. I think the storylines were deeper and richer in places like the "The Good Collar" for instance. It became predictable, that the bad guys were usually shot at the end. Overall I'm not a fan of this season, it's different feel and tone. I missed the atmosphere and tone from the first two seasons. But there are some episodes I did like and could rewatch again: "Stones war," "The Good Collar," "El Viejo" not because of the storyline, but the music and some scenes, "Baby Blues," "DFTC" part1," "Lend me and ear," "KKWT," "Everybody's in Showbiz," yes I kind of liked this one. I also think maybe "Theresa," "Streetwise" and "Walk Alone." I liked "Theresa" much better first time around, but it's still a good episode. I think my favorite now is "KKWT," as it's a personal storyline and I liked those best, it's maybe weird as it's one of the darkest visually, but the story was so good that it wasn't that important. My least favorite is "Killshot." "Better living through chemistry" had potential, but among it the bad acting by all of the guest stars ruined the experience for me. And I liked that Crockett was nicer to Izzy in this season. Also forgot to add, that Tubbs was really well dressed in this Season. 

Really enjoyed reading this and your viewpoints  Summer.

 

 

[Matt5]

14 hours ago, TylerDurden389 said:

While I agree about not liking the change to Don's look in season 3, I gotta admit, after recently rewatching El Viejo and Forgive Us Our Debts, I kinda like that dark gray suit Don wears in those episodes (it's the same one). I don't like the dark green shirt, but I like the style/pattern of the suit. No giant shoulder pads or pleated slacks. Just a regular fitted outfit that works for almost all occasions. Pair it up with a white collared shirt and a pastel-green/blue tie and you can totally rep the Miami Vice look without being too obvious.

That’s a great suit - I would think Giorgio Armani.

[Robbie C.]

I really don't care about the fashion that much. Sure, it's interesting and all, but that for me was never the heart of the show (maybe a distant third at best). What makes season 3 problematic is that the departure of John Diehl threw the show out of thematic balance. Before you had three partner teams with Lou or Castillo wrangling the herd. With Zito gone you have Stan on his own, awkwardly cobbled onto the other two pairs or just forgotten. Once that symmetry is gone the heart of the show in character terms gets REALLY problematic. Frankly I liked many of the plots they developed in season 3, mostly because I was getting tired of the cartoonish aspect of some of the stuff that floated up in the first two seasons (things like The Great McCarthy...one of the few episodes I just can't stomach more than once every couple of years). And as for the shift in focus to Sonny...I don't think you can hang all (or maybe even most) of that on Wolf. He's an ensemble show guy through and through. The network (and quite possibly their star Don) likely drove that change.

And I don't know that I'd call Scarface high-energy or cool. Manic, yes. And Scarface was certainly nihilistic. But Miami Vice only borrowed the colors and setting from Scarface. The dirty side, which was really at the heart of Scarface, didn't start showing up until the later seasons.

[summer84]

I feel, that already early on it wasn't as glamorous as it appeared on the surface. With the "dirty" side being shown in "Heart of Darkness," when Artie Lawson brutally beats up a guy. And at the end kills himself. Or the car explosion with Angelina etc. I guess, maybe some of it wasn't portrayed as explicit as later on. 

Usually I wouldn't pay much attention to the fashion in other TV shows, but because the fashion stood out a lot on MV compared to what cops traditionally wore and being modern, it became something unique along with the music and cinematography. It's associated with the show till this day. Of course in the end it all has to unite properly/balanced along with good storytelling to function. I think they should've continued in S3 presenting MV with all it's special elements from the previous seasons, despite it's darker tone and look. And when they did do that, it felt like the old MV we all fell in love with. 

 

Edited June 7, 2020 by summer84

[Jack Gretsky]

I'm not happy that the "sunny and sleek" vibe of seasons 1 & 2 was ditched so soon, and, although there were still some good songs (Steve Jones' "Mercy," The Who's "Eminence Front," Thinkman's "Best Adventures," Billy Idol's "Don't Need a Gun," Peter Gabriel's "Sledgehammer," Shannon's "Do You Wanna Get Away" and a few others), there were too many ho-hum tracks compared to the earlier shows.  Nevertheless, Season 3 contained several excellent episodes including:

1. Red Tape: A real stunner; a completely gripping tale of internecine intrigue.  An A-level group of guest star: Plank, Phillips, Bening, Mortensen.

2. Down for the Count (parts 1 & 2): A Scorsese-like movie with Dallesandro and Serna as prime villains. I'll really miss the comedy team of Zito and Switeck after this. 

3. Shadow in the Dark: A mini-Manhunter. On the plus side it's a truly creepy slice of 48 minute TV with haunting performances from Vincent Caristi as the psycho "shadow" and Jack Thibeau as a cop way over the edge.  On the minus side, Sonny's descent into obsession comes too quickly compared to William Peterson's in Manhunter mostly due to the time limitations of a one-off episode compared to the 2 hour running time and backstory of the movie. Still a great episode. 

4. Forgive Us Our Debts: The Hackman Saga part 1. Guy Boyd is such a monster in this. Gabriel's "We Do What We're Told" will always be linked to that last devastating scene. I also like Val Bisoglio's role as the hapless Gus.

5. Lend Me an Ear: This feels like a classic early episode in its look and tone.  John Glover is hilarious as the amoral surveillance genius. There is also a very cool and "colorful" showdown sequence at the villain's place.  

By Hooker by Crook is also a highlight of the season.  I also enjoyed episodes that didn't get great reviews on this forum: Baby Blues, Killshot, Viking Bikers from Hell, and Everybody's in Showbiz. 

Edited September 1, 2020 by Jack Gretsky

[Bren10]

The quickness of Sonny's descent in Shadow in the Dark can be forgiven somewhat if you look at Gilmore's obsession as a contagion that Sonny contracts. That's an element that Manhunter didn't have. Sonny's meltdown at the end of The Good Collar is also a powerful moment I remember when thinking of S3, as well as Ira Stone's death.

[Jack Gretsky]

13 minutes ago, Bren10 said:

The quickness of Sonny's descent in Shadow in the Dark can be forgiven somewhat if you look at Gilmore's obsession as a contagion that Sonny contracts. That's an element that Manhunter didn't have. Sonny's meltdown at the end of The Good Collar is also a powerful moment I remember when thinking of S3, as well as Ira Stone's death.

That's a good point re Gilmore, but I still wish Shadow had been a two-parter.  And certainly The Good Collar and Stone's War (besides the usual Hollywood anti-Americanism) have good moments.  I guess Season 3 is better than I give it credit for! 

Edited September 1, 2020 by Jack Gretsky

[ViceFanMan]

Here were some of my original thoughts on Season 3 overall...most of my thoughts are the same, but I did change a few episodes around in which category I felt they belonged in:

I know there were some changes with Season 3...there wasn't as much pastel with the clothes, Crockett gets a new Ferrari & sunglasses, and his haircut is different. There were also new/different writers...so the storyline of Tubbs' baby son (who was really still alive) from season 2 was never returned to or given closure.  

But, I still think Season 3 is awesome and enjoyable!  There was still plenty of pastels for the colors of buildings and sets, and I liked Crockett's Testarossa better anyway.  However, I do wish he'd of kept his tortoise shell Wayfarers instead of the black Pearsol things he was wearing in this season.  But, despite some changes the acting was still superb, the episodes/plots were for the most part still awesome, a lot of the music used was phenomenal  , still loved Jan Hammer's themes used throughout, the fashion was still interesting and fun to look at, the action was still there, etc...

This was a very hard decision to make...but my favorite episode of Season 3 is "Shadow in the Dark"! It's wild, freaky, something they'd never done before, the acting/colors/filming locations/suspense were perfect  , and I loved it that the episode was based off a real-life case!  I also loved "El Viejo", and it comes in a darn close second to being my favorite too. But, there were a few other episodes that I also felt were the best or most enjoyable of the season/show, and ones I love watching...which are: "When Irish Eyes Are Crying", "Better Living Through Chemistry", "Streetwise", "Forgive Us Our Debts", "Cuba Libre", "Duty and Honor", "Theresa", "The Afternoon Plane", "Lend Me an Ear", "By Hooker By Crook", "Knock, Knock, Who's There?", and "Heroes of the Revolution".

Some other watchable episodes, but not necessarily as good or enjoyable for me are: "Stone's War", "Killshot", "Walk Alone", "The Good Collar", "Baby Blues", "Down For the Count" Pts. 1&2, and "Red Tape". A couple really bad/weak, or least enjoyable episodes are: "Viking Bikers From Hell" and "Everybody's in Showbiz".

But, overall I love Season 3...and even with the few changes, I still think it's "Miami Vice"! 

 

[Jack Gretsky]

On 9/1/2020 at 12:30 PM, Jack Gretsky said:

I'm not happy that the "sunny and sleek" vibe of seasons 1 & 2 was ditched so soon, and, although there were still some good songs (Steve Jones' "Mercy," The Who's "Eminence Front," Thinkman's "Best Adventures," Billy Idol's "Don't Need a Gun," Peter Gabriel's "Sledgehammer," Shannon's "Do You Wanna Get Away" and a few others), there were too many ho-hum tracks compared to the earlier shows.  Nevertheless, Season 3 contained several excellent episodes including:

1. Red Tape: A real stunner; a completely gripping tale of internecine intrigue.  An A-level group of guest star: Plank, Phillips, Bening, Mortensen.

2. Down for the Count (parts 1 & 2): A Scorsese-like movie with Dallesandro and Serna as prime villains. I'll really miss the comedy team of Zito and Switeck after this. 

3. Shadow in the Dark: A mini-Manhunter. On the plus side it's a truly creepy slice of 48 minute TV with haunting performances from Vincent Caristi as the psycho "shadow" and Jack Thibeau as a cop way over the edge.  On the minus side, Sonny's descent into obsession comes too quickly compared to William Peterson's in Manhunter mostly due to the time limitations of a one-off episode compared to the 2 hour running time and backstory of the movie. Still a great episode. 

4. Forgive Us Our Debts: The Hackman Saga part 1. Guy Boyd is such a monster in this. Gabriel's "We Do What We're Told" will always be linked to that last devastating scene. I also like Val Bisoglio's role as the hapless Gus.

5. Lend Me an Ear: This feels like a classic early episode in its look and tone.  John Glover is hilarious as the amoral surveillance genius. There is also a very cool and "colorful" showdown sequence at the villain's place.  

By Hooker by Crook is also a highlight of the season.  I also enjoyed episodes that didn't get great reviews on this forum: Baby Blues, Killshot, Viking Bikers from Hell, and Everybody's in Showbiz. 

My assessment a year ago, and it mostly holds.  I'm not sure though why I called "By Hooker by Crook" a "highlight."  It's a middling episode, no more.  

I really like "El Viejo" a lot more during this year's marathon and am tempted to put it in my top 5, but I'd hate to knock out either "Forgive Us Our Debts" or "Lend Me an Ear."  For now I'll have it in a tie at #5 with "Ear."  The rest of the top 10 is:

7. Duty and Honor

8. Killshot

9. Baby Blues

10. By Hooker...no....Everybody's in Showbiz!  Just to annoy the haters! Muwhahahaha!

Best songs: "Mercy," "When the Rain Comes Down," "Red Rain," "Eminence Front," "Do You Wanna Get Away," "Mercy Street," "Listen Like Thieves," "In Dulce Decorum," "Two Rapid Formations," "Sledgehammer," "We Do What We're Told," "There's a River," "Don't Need a Gun," "Miami," "Gun Law," "Respect Yourself," "Best Adventures," "Underwaterboys," "Tightrope Walk" and the jazz standards in "Heroes of the Revolution."

Special mention to Jan Hammer's "Shadow in the Dark" score. 

[Eillio Martin Imbasciati]

11 hours ago, Jack Gretsky said:

My assessment a year ago, and it mostly holds.  I'm not sure though why I called "By Hooker by Crook" a "highlight."  It's a middling episode, no more.  

I really like "El Viejo" a lot more during this year's marathon and am tempted to put it in my top 5, but I'd hate to knock out either "Forgive Us Our Debts" or "Lend Me an Ear."  For now I'll have it in a tie at #5 with "Ear."  The rest of the top 10 is:

7. Duty and Honor

8. Killshot

9. Baby Blues

10. By Hooker...no....Everybody's in Showbiz!  Just to annoy the haters! Muwhahahaha!

Best songs: "Mercy," "When the Rain Comes Down," "Red Rain," "Eminence Front," "Do You Wanna Get Away," "Mercy Street," "Listen Like Thieves," "In Dulce Decorum," "Two Rapid Formations," "Sledgehammer," "We Do What We're Told," "There's a River," "Don't Need a Gun," "Miami," "Gun Law," "Respect Yourself," "Best Adventures," "Underwaterboys," "Tightrope Walk" and the jazz standards in "Heroes of the Revolution."

Special mention to Jan Hammer's "Shadow in the Dark" score. 

What I like best about 'By Hooker By Crook' is that I feel Christine Von Marburg was Crockett's best love interest, they were just torpedoed by their chosen professions & controversy.

I find 'Everybody's in Showbiz' to be interesting: the only problem for me is that Vice overall just has too many offbeat/wacky episodes that begins with 'Viking Bikers from Hell' (I like the Nietzsche angle, Reb Brown, and John Matuszak's Lascoe character's spoof on Merlin Olsen selling flowers there as well) and continues onto 'Missing Hours' (for those who don't like the Catlin Davies storyline that follows---I  do-- I guess things can be rough for a Vice viewer during this period).