Victims of Circumstance

[C Glide]

During filming it was common for cast and crew to take their lunch break there. Reportedly good burgers and right there.

[airtommy]

7 minutes ago, C Glide said:

Nice, thank you. I really need a time machine. Not sure what the three story structure was or where it was on the property but the building seen in the bg as C gets out of the van at the rally was similar 3 stories.

I don't see anything around the Poinciana are to match the 3 story building when Crockett gets out of the van.  Since that scene was filmed at night, wouldn't it make sense to film it near the fire bombing at Washington/5th?

[C Glide]

It would indeed.

 

[airtommy]

I've looked at everything around the 5th St area on Historic Aerials but I don't see it.  I also looked at the Freefall chase through 5th/Washington.

This building is somewhat unique in that it has only 1 row of windows on the side despite being 3 stories tall.

 

[Matt5]

I am a big fan of this episode and was shot all over Miami Beach in 1989. Today I’ll be visiting The Traymore Hotel, up north of 21st street, featured in two scenes in this Season 5 episode. (meeting and fight scene, end scene interior and exterior).

Edited January 25, 2019 by Matt5

[Matt5]

Stumbled upon this tonight, I’d never seen it before Don Johnson and Michael Talbott behind the scenes shot from this 1989 episode (from behind The Traymore). Such a cool shot!

[Matt5]

@miamijimf you mentioned about the Bank of America Financial Centre on Lincoln Road Mall at Washington / Lincoln, you get a good shot of it from the Royal Palm Hotel during this scene in the 1989 episode. This is the best shot in the series we see of this tower (briefly seen also in “Everybody’s in Showbiz” during the teaser).

[Tom]

Am 4.5.2017 um 05:13 schrieb airtommy:

I don't see anything around the Poinciana are to match the 3 story building when Crockett gets out of the van.  Since that scene was filmed at night, wouldn't it make sense to film it near the fire bombing at Washington/5th?

We can definetely rule out the Poinciana hotel as filming location for the Nazi rally. Due to the MB preservation league website, the Poinciana was demolished in January 1988, long before that episode was filmed in March 1989. Also, the huge hall and the structure about the entrance of the building do not look like a SB hotel, rather then a big storage hall. As this is still an unknown location I post the key pics here. 

[miamijimf]

The old Firestone garage on Alton Rd. seen in this ep is being converted into three restaurants.  This is not a great time to open a restaurant, I wish them luck. 

https://www.remiamibeach.com/south-beach/groot-hospitality-hopes-for-september-opening-of-three-restaurants-in-old-firestone-service-center/

 

[Tom]

Just a flash of an idea as to the nazi rally location pictured above: could this be one of the Greenwich studio halls (I´ve never been there in person, so I don´t know if this matches in appearance or size)? The statues standing in the background look like props from a movie and would hardly be found in any ordinary storage hall.

Another idea would be a facility of the Miami convention center. Both ideas also supported by the concrete floor we see. Otherwise I do not know any hall big enough in South Beach and the brick and mortar construction around the entrance gate does not look like any typical South Beach construction to me ...

Edited August 4, 2020 by Tom

[C Glide]

To me this has every appearance of being a South Beach hotel that has been gutted for renovation. I would be very surprised if it were not. Those columns were left to that point so likely they were built into the new hotel.

[C Glide]

On 6/24/2020 at 2:51 PM, Tom said:

We can definetely rule out the Poinciana hotel as filming location for the Nazi rally. Due to the MB preservation league website, the Poinciana was demolished in January 1988, long before that episode was filmed in March 1989. Also, the huge hall and the structure about the entrance of the building do not look like a SB hotel, rather then a big storage hall. As this is still an unknown location I post the key pics here. 

I have long suspected that in the top screen capture the building seen in the background of the alley as they exit the vehicle is the Shore Crest. Believe 1535 Collins Ave. That would put the rally in the torn down building just to the south which makes total sense.

[Tom]

vor 45 Minuten schrieb C Glide:

I have long suspected that in the top screen capture the building seen in the background of the alley as they exit the vehicle is the Shore Crest. Believe 1535 Collins Ave. That would put the rally in the torn down building just to the south which makes total sense.

That is not possible when looking at Google Maps. The Shorecrest is a 15 story building with windows also on the lower two floors whereas the building behind C&T&Baker has no windows at all behind the van up to the second or third floor and is a 3 story building with the corner soon behind them, whereas the Shorecrest on 1986 historic arial is much longer without interruption. Plus the Poinciana was at 1555 Collins and therefore north of 1535 Collins not south of it, when demolished one year before that episode. So, whatever they filmed in, it was not the Poinciana and the wall we see does not belong to the Shorecrest. I did some search around the area a few weeks ago but could not find any matching wall.

The building south of the Shorecrest at 1501 Collins seems to be remodelled compared to 1986.

P.S. of course they might have edited both scenes, so that leaving the van and entering the meeting could have been two different locations, too.

 

 

 

Edited August 4, 2020 by Tom

[C Glide]

The rear of the Shore Crest is three stories. The building to the south which I believe the address was 241 15th Street was torn down and is now a part of 1500 Collins Ave./ Bancroft complex. Only the front third of this complex (Bancroft) is old otherwise it  is a completely new development. I suspect this is where the rally may have been (In the rear that is long gone).

[Tom]

vor 4 Stunden schrieb C Glide:

The rear of the Shore Crest is three stories.

There is no evidence for that as far as I can see. Neither on today’s Google maps nor on the historic aerials.

[Tom]

After long scrutiny, here is my best guess as where the big rally house was.

It was not the abandoned building south of the pool where Alvarez was questioned (this building was torn down after 1989), because we see that building in the background of the behind the scenes shot provided by @MTVcops and it does not have any big opening where they enter. It has corner windows that could match the background building behind the van with Crockett&Switek, but the window dividers are different (number of window dividers fit as well as the wooden planks on some of the windows, i.e. the building behind the pool was prepared for destruction).

I believe that the big opening and the rally scene was filmed inside the older building part that still stands (1501 Collins Ave). The older part has been extended since then by expansion to the north, but it has a big opening and a garage in this part of the building, so it could have housed the huge hall we see in the episode and also the opening back in 1989.

As to the wall behind the van scene I am not sure but the only part that could fit is the NW-corner of the abandoned building part, just east of the big opening. The old torn down building part had corner windows that could be the one we see behind Crockett&Switek. All other houses around have no corner windows that we see behind the van. Also near the Traymore there are no buildings that fit. The 1995 aerial shows that both buildings and the pool have been torn down  between 89 and 95.

 

Edited January 10, 2021 by Tom

[Tom]

old picture of the cafe in the teaser 1608 Alton Road, building sadly torn down (last business was Gina Pizza).

[Tom]

old postcard of the Shorecrest hotel (1535 Collins Ave) pool used in this ep.

Edited March 9, 2021 by Tom

[Tom]

UNKNOWN INTERIOR HOTEL SCENE - THE CARLYLE?

There is the unknown interior scene location where Baker and Helen Jackson meet. The establishing shot is the Carlyle. I believe that the interior is the Carlyle as well. I found a fitting location inside the Carlyle yard where that room could have been located (see comparison pic below from "Back in the world"). There are some striking clues/similarities:

• The Art deco pattern on the fireplace is the same as the theme on the facade (6-slim vertical grooves) - very distinctive and these patterns are usually unique (e.g. the Van Ness has 3 vertical edges)
• The window shape and the unique slim window divider pattern (very narrow horizontal pattern - very rare) - I used the window vis a vis as comparison as we can´t see the window in the dead angle of the slim yard corner
• The bush outside and the room shape (2 windows on the east/north with sun shining from the east, watch the shadows to indicate the sun is shining in a 90 degree angle through the invisible window from the right side and the Carlyle is oriented not exactly west-east, but a bit to the south of it!) would match AND the shape of the shadow outside fully matches with the shape of the round canopies the Carlyle has just above the window we can´t see in the dead angle. This second window (facing north, where the bush is in front of) cannot be seen on pictures as the corner there is too small and Google Earth also can´t get access to this slim corner of the yard.
• the door frames have the same pattern as the ones in the scenes in "Back in the world"

All above is circumstantial only, but all similarities together very unusual for coincidence.

P.S. the color palette fits too but the Carlyle changed its colors over time, also between 1985 when MV filmed Back in the world inside and 1989 when VOC was filmed, thus the color palette on walls/doors/floor, etc is no good indicator. But the turquoise and the wall color are at least similar to colors the Carlyle definitely had in the 80s.

Edited August 29, 2021 by Tom

[Crockettt]

Royal Palm and Shorecrest Hotel during the renovation in the 1990s.

[Tom]

Baker´s villa at 27 Star Island, originally designed by Walter DeGarmo as easily be seen by the courtyard and the fountain (as the vigilante villa in Over the line and Ross´home in Miami Squeeze) was completely re-modelled/partly (re)moved - literally shifted by a truck - years ago. I post here a lot of old photos how the villa looked like when MV filmed there, before these rare pics of the old state get lost. 

P.S. today it is a super ugly modern house with some old parts remaining. https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/27-Star-Island-Dr-Miami-Beach-FL-33139/43908297_zpid/

 

[airtommy]

Some shots of 27 Star Island from Burn Notice Episode 4.2 "Fast Friends"

 

[miamijimf]

Terrible that they destroyed that great old house.

[Tom]

Am 10.1.2021 um 18:06 schrieb Tom:

After long scrutiny, here is my best guess as where the big rally house was.

It was not the abandoned building south of the pool where Alvarez was questioned (this building was torn down after 1989), because we see that building in the background of the behind the scenes shot provided by @MTVcops and it does not have any big opening where they enter. It has corner windows that could match the background building behind the van with Crockett&Switek, but the window dividers are different (number of window dividers fit as well as the wooden planks on some of the windows, i.e. the building behind the pool was prepared for destruction).

I believe that the big opening and the rally scene was filmed inside the older building part that still stands (1501 Collins Ave). The older part has been extended since then by expansion to the north, but it has a big opening and a garage in this part of the building, so it could have housed the huge hall we see in the episode and also the opening back in 1989.

As to the wall behind the van scene I am not sure but the only part that could fit is the NW-corner of the abandoned building part, just east of the big opening. The old torn down building part had corner windows that could be the one we see behind Crockett&Switek. All other houses around have no corner windows that we see behind the van. Also near the Traymore there are no buildings that fit. The 1995 aerial shows that both buildings and the pool have been torn down  between 89 and 95.

 

I can confirm now that the backside of 1501 Collins was the location of the nazi assembly. 

today I walked there and took the two shots below. As it was getting dark and they have video surveillance, soI did not take a picture inside but looked through the fence of the big opening.

Inside is exactly the high and vast hall we expect, just there are ramps with segregation walls, so the hall is divided in sub parts. The whole entrance is elevated (can be seen from the Collins Ave side) and the second picture shows how high the original room was from street level without elevation. And the height matches what we see on TV.

So my original assumption is confirmed and it makes sense as they filmed half of the episode on that block with most buildings razed soon after. As I have shown in my earlier research the 1501 building was done partly new (the entrance area of the garage), the remainder stayed as was. That also underlines my point, as they have just remodelled the entrance of the nazi assembly, but not the big hall behind it, just segregation added.

Edited August 21, 2022 by Tom

[Tom]

Baker´s house on Star Island was razed as well. The before and after comparison below.