kokopelli

Crockett's backup gun after the Detonics

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kokopelli

Has anyone positively identified Sonny's backup gun after the switch from the Detonics? Freefall shows him putting a compact S&W in an ankle holster on at his locker at the end before the shootout, and Wiki has it listed as a '4513'.Has this been verified? Are there any screen grabs of it?

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timm525

There saw some talk on this somewhere in another thread. No one had positively identified the gun(s) used after the Daytonics.At the end of Asian Cut as well as Bad Timing, there was some speculation that it was a S&W 9mm, but the model number was never accurately given.

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kokopelli

Bad Timings looks to me like a 669 or 6906 perhaps. I would assume though his ankle-carried BUG would be a .45 to accompany the 645/4506, same as the Bren/Detonics match in .45.

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Frey

What gun did he have on his ankle in "Viking Bikers"? Wouldn't be surprised if it was the same as the one in Freefall.

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kokopelli

well, the 4513 supposedly arrived 10 years after Vice, so scratch that one.

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timm525

It is odd that they never announced what he was carrying after the Daytonics. They gave reasons for the Bren Ten and 645 so one would think something would have been said too. :confused:

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Gary1911A1

I'd have to get out my season 5 DVDs', but I think it was the 6906.

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kokopelli
I'd have to get out my season 5 DVDs'' date=' but I think it was the 6906.[/quote']Yes, yes you will!

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timm525
Bad Timings looks to me like a 669 or 6906 perhaps. I would assume though his ankle-carried BUG would be a .45 to accompany the 645/4506' date=' same as the Bren/Detonics match in .45.[/quote']OK, first of all I don't really think it was a 669 9mm. I have one as shown below.Also, that is a bit of a bulky and HEAVY gun for an ankle carry IMHO.Eingefügtes BildEingefügtes BildHere is a side by side of my 669 and 645.Eingefügtes BildThis is a side by side comparison of the 9mm (top) and a .45 (bottom) with a penny thrown in there for scale.Eingefügtes Bild

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Kavinsky

Not sure what it is either, but we are talking about a guy who used to have a 45 around his anklefrom freefall and asian cut

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Kavinsky

in viking bikers he still had his detonics, so they must have switched over to the smith for season 4, which coincides with detonics being bought and moved to Phoenix in 87'http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Detonicsmaybe the new owner didn't want them using his gun?and heres a shot of it in bad timing as well, kinda funny that he shoots the bad guy at the end of viking with the hammer down.

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kokopelli

that last picture of him with the gun in the gut of the bad guy is a detonics .45. -note the frame mounted safety, the plunger tube in front of that and the slide release. Then there is the proprietary 'forward' rear sight. Bad Timing shot is a S&W semi.

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timm525

I want to say the one in Bad Timing looks like a S&W 5906.

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PeterGunn

Chronologically in the series, the switch from the 645/Detonics BUG occured AFTER Crockett get's his marbles back after the explosion on the boat and his time in Ft. Fauderdale. One would think that those 2 pistols were lost in the explosion.Once he gets reinstated, we can surmise he is "issued" the 4506 and the 6906 as his BUG. Probably the scenes that show the 6906 can be found in the episode where Crockett goes on "vacation" and saves the girl (Bad Timing). Thus the 4506 and 6906 show up is SEASON 5

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jama555

http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii172/timm5252/Picture0141.jpgEingefügtes BildHere is a side by side of my 669 and 645.Eingefügtes BildThis is a side by side comparison of the 9mm (top) and a .45 (bottom) with a penny thrown in there for scale.Eingefügtes Bild

Has anyone considered that he carried a S&W 4516. 7 round clip? I had owned one before, and had seen Sonny pull it out of his holster many times.Given that Sonny liked the large bore (4506, Bren 10, etc) I cannot envision him carrying a 9 mm. Plus, when he shot the compact gun, it did sound like a .45.My 2 cents worth.

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Kavinsky

Possibile, it does have that color difference going for it like the others, polished stainless steel frame with a matt colored frame

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Lifeguard
Has anyone considered that he carried a S&W 4516. 7 round clip? I had owned one before' date=' and had seen Sonny pull it out of his holster many times.Given that Sonny liked the large bore (4506, Bren 10, etc) I cannot envision him carrying a 9 mm. Plus, when he shot the compact gun, it did sound like a .45.My 2 cents worth.[/quote']Maybe.....maybe. The 9mm replacement for the Detonics Combat Master bugged me. It didn't seem right to mix ammo like that. If your main weapon is a .45 ACP, wouldn't you want to have the same round for your backup? The 4516 does seem to resemble the handgun in those screen grabs. It was available in '89, but S&W may have had an early custom blank firing model ready to go with the 4506 by October '88.

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Kavinsky
Maybe.....maybe. The 9mm replacement for the Detonics Combat Master bugged me. It didn't seem right to mix ammo like that. If your main weapon is a .45 ACP' date=' wouldn't you want to have the same round for your backup? The 4516 does seem to resemble the handgun in those screen grabs. It was available in '89, but S&W may have had an early custom blank firing model ready to go with the 4506 by October '88.[/quote']Keep in mind though that the .40 smith and wesson did not hit until 1990 with the Smith and Wesson 4006 and the glock .40. Which was rushed out to beat smith and wesson to market and well it showed apparently with the reloaders

http-~~-//www.youtube.com/watch?v=okE01bI9jI0

so they werent avalable then, unless sonny was to carry the problematic 1076 10mm on his leg. The only 10mm smith and wesson made UNTIL late 1989/1990 yet again with the 1006. and only because of the 1986 FBI incident where it was the shotguns that failed, not the .38 and 9mm where they sprayed and prayed with there 659's with a 13 round clipinstead of aimed fire like the one guy who dropped one of them, but didnt put him out with it with a .38 special with +P in a two inch barrel, the model 36which makes sense as with a revolver you loose 100 to 200 FPS of velocity to the gap between the barrel and the cylinder, something even the old cowboys noted with the Rifle carbines vs there revolvers.and it was a 2 incher, the 36 theres a noted considerable drop in velocity between 2 and 4 inches which some ammo companies have been trying to rectify as of the last couple of yearshence why I think they dropped the revolvers and went with 9mm's with 147 grain ammo, some of which I believe was +P probably bringing it into the realm of .40 smith powerwise, atleast light .40as I think the lightest you can get for .40 is 160 grains, average seems to be 180 and 200 which makes sense as the 10mm's original loading before they overloaded it like the .41 magnum was supposed to be just 200 grains at a 1000 FPS, just below supersonic levels.so you dont get a second crack and it doesnt deafen you as badly as a magnum gun, think the threshold is at 1100 FPS, stock FPS for a 9mm. plus the brass is easier to load for given the casing of .45 where it doesnt have a brim on it I believe for resizing, so the 10mm was supposed to be an easier to reload, more powerful on average over the .45 .40 call with the best of all worlds with a thinner gun that's probably .43 in overal width instead of .47/.48just like the CZ 75 vs the 1911, part of the reason why the failure of the bren ten project and the overloading of 10mm hurts so much. If it had been handled and built properly like it was supposed to it would have easily superseded the 1911 and maybe even the glock.hell just imagine the potental of a Polymer Bren Ten with the stock 10mm loading to keep the cost down, I mean alot of police stations and cops are switching over to .40 and .45, my local one included nowadaysfucking vltor, ya'll are a bunch of dumbasses. Sorry getting off topic but the .40 was based on the 10mm so it does tie into it somewhat.Anyways so they had just switched off of the Detonics which was supposedly having trouble feeding blanks given its short barrelprobably not the springs like it normally is on a short barreled semi auto but not enough energy to crush the primers for extraction as hickok45 says in this video

http-~~-//www.youtube.com/watch?v=xzSHzjeQzEo

when he gets to the point where he mentions he had experimented with making blanks at one pointoh hickok45 what would we do without you lolso it was either go with a .35/9mm caliber gun with a barrel width of .38 (hence .38 special and .380, it referes to the overal width of the gun) that was reliable and could easily take blanks or a .45 with a width of probably .48which has had trouble with blanks for years hence why in alot of movie productions the .45 gets turned into a 9mmhttp://www.imfdb.org/wiki/Untouchables,_The_%281987%29http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/Getaway,_The_%281972%29hell before they had access to star 9mm's they even made a mock up 1911 using a .38 revolver sometimes, found it while browsing the IMFDB awhile back.hence why they switched off to a lesser caliber, it was just a filming practicality issue probably, hell could be the reason why in Magnum PI he also used a 9mm, although a proper M1911 not a Star 9mm http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/Magnum_piand the imfdb does say that the last season backup gun was the third gen equavalent of the smith 669the 6906http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/Miami_Vice_-_Season_5so him going from a .45 to a 9mm isnt as bad as they make it out to be, as long as he can keep a cool head under fire and make the shots count.http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/Miami_Vice_-_Season_4and it looks like on the S4 listing of the IMFDB that he never used his back up gun then, they may have gotten rid of it in the meantime as well and needed a new gun. And with the new third gens coming out they gave him a 4506 TR with a modded 645 frame and the 6906 for S5.plus with an alloy frame it would make it far easier for him to carry around than the heavy and cumbersome detonics, unless he had a really good holster that evened out the weight of the gun well on his ankle. of which atleast in S1 it doesnt look likeEingefügtes Bild

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Lifeguard

So they had the Detonics Combat Master for seasons 1 thru 3, then didn't have the backup used in the scripts. And then for the fourth season when given a choice between an early version of S&W's 1989 4516 or 6906, they choose the 6906 for the reliability of the 9mm blanks. That makes sense, and is probably how it happen. I'm sure Crockett would have chosen the 4516 over the 6906 if given the choice, but the logistics of production dictated the 6906. I'm sure DJ did not wear the ankle holster and BUG unless it was a scene that called for it. I've never seen the ankle holster identified, do we know who the manufacturer and model is?

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Kavinsky
So they had the Detonics Combat Master for seasons 1 thru 3' date=' then didn't have the backup used in the scripts. And then for the fourth season when given a choice between an early version of S&W's 1989 4516 or 6906, they choose the 6906 for the reliability of the 9mm blanks. That makes sense, and is probably how it happen. I'm sure Crockett would have chosen the 4516 over the 6906 if given the choice, but the logistics of production dictated the 6906. I'm sure DJ did not wear the ankle holster and BUG unless it was a scene that called for it. I've never seen the ankle holster identified, do we know who the manufacturer and model is?[/quote']Afraid not plus he doesnt wear socks so that kind of Ankle holster is out of the question, has to be a strap type that goes around the leg.best guess would be maybe to look at the Prodigal son episode and see if it lines up with any galco products.

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Lifeguard
Afraid not plus he doesnt wear socks so that kind of Ankle holster is out of the question' date=' has to be a strap type that goes around the leg.best guess would be maybe to look at the Prodigal son episode and see if it lines up with any galco products.[/quote']Galco has 3 ankle holsters, but they all look a little too modern to match Crockett's. The season 1 holster depicted earlier in the thread looks like dark tan leather. But the fifth season holster looks like it's black and maybe nylon. Guess the ankle holster isn't as sexy as the shoulder holster, so no one has given it much thought.

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Kavinsky
Galco has 3 ankle holsters' date=' but they all look a little too modern to match Crockett's. The season 1 holster depicted earlier in the thread looks like dark tan leather. But the fifth season holster looks like it's black and maybe nylon. Guess the ankle holster isn't as sexy as the shoulder holster, so no one has given it much thought.[/quote']I dont doubt it, I'm kind of wondering if in an odd way it could be an adapted holster of some sort given the nature of the detonics and its production life.probably a colt commander holster would be my guess.

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Lifeguard
I dont doubt it' date=' I'm kind of wondering if in an odd way it could be an adapted holster of some sort given the nature of the detonics and its production life.probably a colt commander holster would be my guess.[/quote']Yeah, even though the Detonics Combat Master is being made again, I don't see it listed in the options for any holsters, ankle or otherwise.

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Kavinsky
Yeah' date=' even though the Detonics Combat Master is being made again, I don't see it listed in the options for any holsters, ankle or otherwise.[/quote']information is sketchy on them and the new version, on the 1911 forums though there is an entire detonics combat master section which should help in your endeavors.I'm still kicking myself over missing a mint blued one from Vices era for 550 bucks awhile back (friend price with a gundealer, helps to flash the green and be a genuine gun enthusiast with a gun collector dealer)http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=345708594can tell its Vice era by the labeling, it was just called detonics .45 on the side rather than MK 4From what I understand the company started up, made new guns, then went dark again, but atleast they made new guns and there supposedly of good quality, but there not in the old style, atleast some of the ones I came acrossthis is the exception, although he might have just stuck new grips on ithttp://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=339778784it was at a time when I was looking into the antique M1911 and getting into it to see what the hubub was about, but now that I have the 645 I kinda dont want to go for any 1911 style guns or the alternative I found to the detonicsthe Sig Sauer 245 namelyand trust me if you dont like the have to carry cocked and locked thing and no DA ability you'll never want to go back to the M1911 ever again after handling the 645 and 4506But I do still kinda regret not going for it, but its just another .45 and what the hell would I do with it, still a great could have been story.but supposedly they made a .38 super version at one point, which has kind of piqued my interest a little along with a 9mmhell Crockett had the 9mm pocket version of a detonics for a backup but the takedown is a nightmare and it kinda looks like a brick in person
and you thought the early glock takedown was a nightmare!one showed up at the same gunshop as the other detonics, had a stainless in addition to the blued one like crocketts but said he's keeping that one lolall of them were NIB

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