Sign in to follow this  
soflajeremy

episode 29 Tale of the goat

Recommended Posts

miamijimf

Posted: 09 December 2006 at 8:36pm by SOFLAJEREMYOriginally posted by DanJOriginally posted by airtommyIn all the mapping programs, 20 E. Sunrise Ave. points to the house circled in red. I was thinking it's the house circled in yellow. I know the mapping programs are often wrong, so I'm curious to know which exact house it is (was).Eingefügtes Bild I can dig what you're saying about these mapping programs being off, but by three blocks? Somehow I don't think so. Read on:Stop the DVD at 10:53 as the girl comes out of the driveway. The camera, or we the viewer, is looking west along Sunrise Avenue. There is a stop sign in the background on a barely visible street corner (Presumably Douglas Road), then a yellow sign indicating left/right turn only. It appears to be on the other side of the street judging by its distance from the stop sign.I'm pretty sure that the reason for forcing a left or right turn at that intersection is because the street that feeds it from the west is, or was, a one-way street. At the abovementioned time frame you can see a car approach the intersection from the west with its left turn signal flashing. This places this scene right close to the intersection, suggesting the house circled in red.But that house isn't close enough to the canal and isn't angled. The house circled in yellow certainly looks more like the right relation to the canal and is angled, but it is too far from the corner. Now, look just to the right of the red circle.I say it is this house. It is angled, it is next to the canal, it is nearer to the intersection and lastly, just below it is what looks like an apartment building. The corner of this building is visible at around 10:32.The only exception to all the above as I see it is if they filmed the bulk of the scene at the yellow circled house, then switched houses/driveways for the street shot, using the house closer to the intersection for the latter. But that seems like a lot of trouble to go through when you're already set up and all that. Would you concur with these findings?I went by this area back when we first discussed this. Tried to get some pictures but nothing conclusive enough to post. The house has changed considerably since this MV episode, and there is a gate prevents getting a good shot when closed. I don't like linering too long in these posh residential areas so I didn't avail myself of the time I normally need to compose an acurate photograph.Now that I have studied this some more, I may go back soon for another try.Sorry danj but neither of the houses you circled is the correct one. When I get home tonight I will post some pictures that will help you with the id. In the mean while check out location trivia for the neighborhood and that will help.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
miamijimf

Posted: 09 December 2006 at 10:00pm by SOFLAJEREMYIt is 20 east sunrise villaverde

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
miamijimf

Posted: 09 December 2006 at 10:59pm by SOFLAJEREMYPIC MISSING

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
miamijimf

Posted: 10 December 2006 at 12:29am by airtommyOK, that's the house Dan thought it was. Red circled house = 20 Sunrise Ave according to Google Maps Yellow circled house = my first "suspect" when I first found the neighborhood Tis a shame they tore down such a cool-looking house.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
miamijimf

Posted: 10 December 2006 at 8:13am by DanJWhen they built that area, someone must have had a thing for building homes at an angle. I count about half a dozen houses, all near the end of the canals, at angles.Airtommy, I wouldn't be so sure the house was torn down. Jeremy's pic doesn't show it but the three story glass section of the house is still there albeit heavily remodeled. Presumably this was done for greater privacy, as you can see clear through the structure in the episode.I'm not too keen on posting pic's of private residences, but this one is special. Here's my shot of the house, showing the three-story section and driveway as it appears today:Eingefügtes BildJeremy's satellite picture shows where C&T parked in a driveway while surveilling Romulus (Why do I feel like I'm writing about a Star Trek episode? Hah!). IMO that's pretty gutsy even for undercover cops as far as I'm concerned - especially two cats in a Daytona wearing pastel suits as compared to a less conspicuous vehicle such as a telephone truck. I know, I know - this is television and it's all part of The Grand Illusion. I'm not complaining, just making an observation.Whenever I venture into these residential areas I can't help but feel that eyes are on me, either from the neighborhood watch team, surveillance cameras or both. I feel nervy enough stopping to snap a quick picture, then getting outta there before someone thinks I'm casing the neighborhood ala "Home Invaders."Therefore, parking in someone's driveway for the length of time that C&T, Switek & Zito or any other undercover agents would spend on a stakeout somehow doesn't seem realistic to me. I know we have folks here who do this sort of work - if they're reading, I wonder if they could comment on this?One last observation: The girl walks out of the driveway and heads east on Sunrise Avenue. Television visuals and drama notwithstanding, if her intent was to get away from Romulus on foot she would have done better to head west towards Douglas Road where she could at least catch a bus or maybe hail a cab. As it is, she's walking deeper into the neighborhood where the streets tend to dead end.Now, having dealt with Romulus' place, I wanna know where the heck Bobby Profile's car lot was. Unless it was a fantastic illusion, it looks like they pretty much blew up the place in the episode. Therefore, I figure it doesn't exist any more. Context clues from the episode include a Dodge auto dealership across the street and some sort of supermarket or shopping center beyond that. Since the film crew seemed to have been camped out in South Miami/ Coconut Grove for much of this ep, I'm assuming this was somewhere along US-1 although there are parts of 441 in Broward that come to mind as I look at those visuals. Any suggestions, folks?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
miamijimf

Posted: 10 December 2006 at 10:46am by SOFLAJEREMY

OK, that's the house Dan thought it was. Red circled house = 20 Sunrise Ave according to Google Maps Yellow circled house = my first "suspect" when I first found the neighborhood No 20 E Sunrise is the house to the right of the red circled house. Danj is correct about not tearing down the house. It is still there same house just remodeled with a new look. On the show it looks like there is more distance between c+t and the bad guys but in real life there is no way they would be missed being parked just feet away. Btw she does walk west in the ep not east. Take another look in the bg of profile auto sales because there is a big clue your missing. It is not in either area you are suspecting now take another look I am confident you will get it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
miamijimf

Posted: 11 December 2006 at 1:42am by airtommyYes, their surveillance is ridiculously obvious! In other episodes, too. Another gorgeous pic, Dan! Originally posted by SOFLAJEREMYBtw she does walk west in the ep not east.???? She turns right, which should be east.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
miamijimf

Posted: 11 December 2006 at 2:31am by airtommyOriginally posted by SOFLAJEREMYin the bg of profile auto sales because there is a big clue your missing.It looks like possibly a Winn Dixie, but that doesn't help much. There must have been a hundred of those in Miami 20 years ago.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
miamijimf

Posted: 11 December 2006 at 9:50am by DanJI maintain that Marie walks eastbound not westbound. The Mercedez turns westbound towards Douglas, as do C&T when they pull out after the Mercedez.Looking some more at Profile Auto Sales, I see a street sign behind C&T at one point that's a little tough to make out. I'm guessing it says NW 7 Ave. If so, that puts them somewhere along 441 in Miami between 50th and 125th Street. There probably is/was a Winn-Dixie somewhere along there . Not so sure if the Dodge dealership still stands. Am I getting closer?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
miamijimf

Posted: 12 December 2006 at 12:04am by airtommyThere is a Winn Dixie on NW 7th Ave. There are at least two street signs in this scene, but I can't make out any of them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
miamijimf

Posted: 12 December 2006 at 1:40pm by Matt5I always thought it could have been NW36th between the airport and opening of Julia Tuttle Cswy . As even today there are many car dealerships down NW 36th St similar to Profile - many still open - many empty. NW 7 Ave also located very nearby.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
miamijimf

Posted: 13 December 2006 at 12:42am by airtommyThere is a WD at 3401 NW 18TH Ave. That's one block from NW 36th St, and visible from there.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
miamijimf

Posted: 13 December 2006 at 9:31am by DanJThe Winn-Dixie we see in this ep is not a Winn-Dixie today. See below for more:Eingefügtes BildX: Profile's car lot then, now Auto World.X: Winn-Dixie then, now Save-A-Lot in the E-Planet shopping center.X: Dodge Dealership then, now Langer Electric Company. This building is seen in the background in certain cuts.Below is a closeup of the above map:Eingefügtes BildHere's some pic's I took:Eingefügtes BildThis shows the car lot and the supermarket as they are today.Eingefügtes BildThis shows the Dodge lot as it is today.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
miamijimf

Posted: 13 December 2006 at 7:20pm by SOFLAJEREMYWell done I knew you could get it

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
miamijimf

Posted: 13 December 2006 at 7:25pm by Matt5very impressive DanJ - i was way off on NW36th St !!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
miamijimf

Posted: 13 December 2006 at 9:29pm by airtommyJeremy: what was the big clue in the background of Profile? Dan: How did you figure it out?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
miamijimf

Posted: 14 December 2006 at 10:22am by DanJOriginally posted by airtommyDan: How did you figure it out?In one of my posts above I speculated that this was somewhere along 441 between 50th and 125th streets. Quite simply, I went for a drive!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
miamijimf

Posted: 14 December 2006 at 11:24pm by airtommyWell done, and nice shots. Great recreations of the ep!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
miamijimf

Posted: 20 December 2006 at 3:29pm by miamijimfAirtommy, You wrote: "I'm stuck on the driving scene in Tale of the Goat. The mystery building at 32:15 seems to be the key to this puzzle. See my December 9th post here." Really confusing driving scenes. Makes no sense to film the vehicles on so many different routes. I’ve watched the episode and tried to follow all the posts. The counter on my DVD player seems to skip slightly when I slow the speed. Just for clarification you are talking about the driving scene from 32:08 to 32:15- right? And the mystery building is the tall one on the right in this capture?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
miamijimf

Posted: 20 December 2006 at 3:38pm by airtommySorry, when I said "32:15" on the other thread, that was a mistake. The mystery building is around 32:27. It looks like a specific building on Brickell, but Matt says the building was not yet built when the scene was filmed. Your screen capture: They are driving northbound on SW North River Dr. under the Flagler Street bridge. You see that building on the right under the bridge in your pic? It says "Col..." I think this is the same building Crockett goes by near the 32:40 mark.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
miamijimf

Posted: 21 December 2006 at 1:28pm by maimijimfAirtommy, Here’s a wild guess about the short segment you are interested in: From the beginning of the scene at 32:14 the vehicles are traveling West on SW 2d Street with the Bank of America Building (under construction) at about the right distance in the background. This takes them under several overpasses. Then a left on SW 2d Ave which would put a power station on their left and an oddly shaped building in the distance on their right (which I can’t get a good look at). Looks like they are heading towards the river, which fits. The main problem with this proposed route is that after the vehicles turn left, there is no overpass for them to go under. I know they did major work on the expressway system, maybe that one doesn’t exits anymore? There is an empty lot where part of it could have stood. The key is the mystery building on the right, of course. Hopefully this is a starting point.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
miamijimf

Posted: 23 December 2006 at 1:13am by DanJLet's begin this study with a Google map. First, a wide shot of the area:Eingefügtes BildX: Miami River and lot where Tubbs boards the truck to the Haitian HullabalooX: Bank Of America buildingX: Washington Mutual BuildingGreen Circle: Parking garage and office building which were built after this episode was filmed. These and other highrises to the south block the view of whatever that black and white building is we see as the blue tarp truck heads down River Drive. NOTE: This area must have been some sort of marina/restaurant at one point. In "One Eyed Jack" this is the location of the scene where C&T are surveiling a booking operation and rescue Barbara Carrow from the bookies.Blue Line: Line of site down 2nd Street as trucks approach River Drive, Bank Of America in background.Green Line: Line of site along River Drive after truck turns corner. The black & white building seen in the episode is not evident today. The closest thing is Washington Mutual, which is at the end of the line of site at SW 8th Street and 1st Avenue and would be visible from River Drive if not for new highrises blocking the view.NOTE: Below the green line, at the corner of SW 7th Street and 2nd Avenue, you can see the Miami Shipyard, aka OCB Headquarters. Today a highrise called Latitude is going up on that lot, with promise of a replica Miami Shipyard building to go up on the corner of 7th and 2nd.Now let's zoom in a bit:Eingefügtes BildX: Corner where Tubbs waits for truck. Crockett pulls up in the Daytona, talks with Tubbs then pulls around the corner.X: Lot where Tubbs boards truck to Haitian Hullabaloo.X: Field where Crockett parks to backup Tubbs.X: Miami River Inn, seen in background when Tubbs is boarding truck.X: East Coast Fisheries, seen behind bridge as truck pulls out of lot.BONUS:X: Attanasio Fisheries, seen in "Give A Little Take A Little," where C&T bust Bob dealing drugs.Red Arrows: Crockett's route after he talks with Tubbs and pulls around into the field to surveil the goings on.Blue Arrows: Route of trucks coming up 2nd Street, and Crockett as he tails them.Now let's see what I saw at the scene:Eingefügtes Bildhttp://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c341/DanFoto/Miami%20Pictures/Chase01.jpgClick For Larger PictureThis is the corner where Tubbs crosses the street to board the Haitian Hullabaloo truck. Familiar elements include the stop sign, the fire hydrant, the 1st Street bridge and the Miami River Inn in the background.Eingefügtes Bildhttp://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c341/DanFoto/Miami%20Pictures/Chase02.jpgClick For Larger PictureThis replicates the shot of the trucks after they pull out of the lot. Familiar elements here are the bridge and East Coast Fisheries (ECF). Note that in the episode the sign at the top of ECF was different than this picture. Also, the 12'-0" clearance sign on the bridge has changed, but the yellow caution light appears to be the same. Overall construction of the bridge is unchanged. What we can't see here is the highrise building on the right side of the shot in the episode, because in my picture it is behind the trees - but the building is there, as we will see in the shot below:Eingefügtes Bildhttp://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c341/DanFoto/Miami%20Pictures/Chase05.jpgClick For Larger PictureThis was taken from the 1st Street bridge. This is not a replica shot, it is a reference shot. Here we see ECF again, and now that we have cleared the trees we see the highrise building we were looking for.NOTE: A bonus in this shot is the yellow building in the lower left. This was used in "Give A Little Take A Little" as Attanasio Fisheries where C&T bust Bob in the drug warehouse.Moving right along:Eingefügtes Bildhttp://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c341/DanFoto/Miami%20Pictures/Chase03.jpgClick For Larger PictureThis took some doing. Studying a printout of the scene, I walked around the area trying to get the right alignment of all the elements. All the while traffic was coming at me from three directions - not heavy traffic since this is an isolated intersection, but enough to make it dificult to set up a tripod to really line things up (FWIW, all pic's in this post are handheld shots.). Amazingly, not much has changed. A phone booth seen in the episode is gone, but the overpasses look the same as well as two street lights just right of center in the picture - one pointing left and the other pointing right.Eingefügtes Bildhttp://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c341/DanFoto/Miami%20Pictures/Chase04.jpgClick For Larger PictureThis is the one that's throwing us off. A lot has changed here. The two elements that I used to line up this replica shot were the street light on the left and the pilons on the right. Look at the the top right quadrant of my picture and you will see what looks like a power line or maybe a communications cable suspended across the street. It crosses in front of a pilon on the right edge of the shot.There is a beam connecting the edge pilon to the next one. Then there appear to be three or four more connected pilons. So far, these are all in the episode shot. Study the frame of the blue tarp truck in this episode and you will see these pilons and the connecting beam, as well as the street light on the other side. The last set of four pilons are not in the episode, nor the overpass they support, which I left in the shot for reference purposes.The pinkish building seen on the left in the episode is now gone, presumably torn down to make way for the overpass. The parking garage and office building in the background of my picture were not there before, as well as the newer highrises under construction in the background. All of these block the view of a key building in the episode - a white/black highrise that some have speculated is on Brickell in the distance.I couldn't find such a building when I went out today to take these pictures. Either it is gone or it has been redesigned/repainted or something - I may have even driven right by it and not even realized it! The nearest match I could find is Washington Mutual (WM) on SW 8th Street and 1st Avenue. Near as I can tell, WM would be in my picture at the same spot where the black and white building was in the episode if other structures weren't blocking the view. Here's WM, as seen from the 2nd Avenue bridge - I was standing about 75 feet west of the OCB's entrance when I took this:Eingefügtes Bildhttp://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c341/DanFoto/Miami%20Pictures/Chase06.jpgClick For Larger PictureIt doesn't look right, but again it is the only structure that makes sense to me, based on information posted above. I leave it to you guys to suss this out further. So ends my study of this section of this episode.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
miamijimf

Posted: 23 December 2006 at 2:22am by airtommyOMG, Professor Dan with another masterpiece post!!! THAT'S what I didn't think of!!! I was confused about the line of sight, since any turn southbound from SW 2nd St would give a direct southward view. I didn't understand how 1221 Brickell, which is diagonally visible from there, would appear directly in front of them. Now I see - they turned onto a diagonal road (River Dr.). I spent weeks studying the angles of the overpasses at every intersection in that area --- EXCEPT SW 2nd St/River Dr. Too funny.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
miamijimf

Posted: 23 December 2006 at 2:32am by airtommyDan, as you were composing that Mona Lisa of MV.org posts, I happened to be studying this scene again. I concluded that we are definitely looking at the Greenberg 1221 Brickell building. Matt, the official completion date of the building is 1986, but the exterior must have been finished by the time they filmed this ep in late 1985. Jim, if you could post a screen capture, then we can compare it to this: Eingefügtes Bild Note: the fake building image on the right side of that pic is Latitude, which Dan mentioned is being built on the OCB site. I extended Dan's green line. The first green circle is the Washington Mutual building, the second green circle is 1221 Brickell (Greenberg Traurig): Eingefügtes Bild

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
miamijimf

Posted: 23 December 2006 at 4:29am by DanJGood job, airtommy (And thanks!). Holy Triangulation, Batman! Two things:1. The Washington Mutual (WM) must have been built some time after Greenberg Traurig (GT), since WM doesn't appear in any Vice ep's I've seen so far. It would have blocked the view of Greenberg Traurig in "Tale Of The Goat" as indicated by the map above, and it would have been clearly visible in the background of any OCB headquarters wide shot since it is but about two blocks away.I believe I have seen pictures of the Miami Shipyard somewhere, before it was demolished, that illustrate my point. Also, the WM is very likely visible in "The Specialist" since they filmed part of the ending at the Miami Shipyard - I'll have to go look at that movie again now to verify...2. Since the GT building wasn't yet finished, it didn't appear as it does today - similarly as the Bank Of America looks rather odd in certain MV shots without its mirrored glass facade. As I suggested in my post, I definitely drove by the GT building but didn't recognize it from the episode! In defense of my mistake, I was thrown by the Washington Mutual building. Thanks to Tommy, now I know what's going on. Good eye, bro'!Nevertheless, one thing still puzzles me - the GT building is quite a distance from River Drive and SW 2nd Street. It amazes me that it would be as visible in the shot as it is. It must be one big-arse building to be seen from that far away! So here's what we hafta do, campers:In order to restore the city to the visual of the show, we'd have to demolish not ony WM but Lattitude, Neovertika and that compound at the end of River Drive where the trucks and Crockett turned onto. Got C2, anyone (Just kidding - just kidding!)? P.S. In Tommy's aerial above which shows a fake representation of Latitude, take a good look at the far right edge. You see that tiny, turquoise-colored oval? That's the top of the Miami Shipyards replica that Latitude are supposed to build sometime next year!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

Sign in to follow this