Episode #5 "Calderone’s Demise"

[ViceFanMan]

33 minutes ago, vicegirl85 said:

True, but I still think the situation called for caution...!  Not sure why he would have been confident she wouldn't give him up to Calderone--even though of course he didn't tell her he was a cop, Calderone may have had her watched (mistress, daughter, whatever, if she was significant to him I feel like he would have had her under surveillance even when the bodyguards weren't around, LOL).

Good points!  But, I miss TV when you were just supposed to "buy" or go along with the storyline no matter how silly or unrealistic it may have been...I mean Kris Munroe (Cheryl Ladd) on Charlie's Angels wrestled an alligator for goodness sake, lol! 

[vicegirl85]

Haha, you're so right!

 

[Matt5]

Never ever get tired of this one - fantastic everything . Really enjoyed the locations in "St Andrews Island" in truth St.Croix in the US Virgin Islands 

[ViceFanMan]

Watched the Hit List & Calderone’s Demise 2-parter again—as they’re my favorite episode/s of the show. Perhaps this has already been mentioned before and/or perhaps I’ve mentioned it before, as I’ve always noticed it, but has anyone ever noticed that at the beginning of this one when Crockett & Tubbs are interrogating Mendez, and they show him photographs supposedly of Angelina, demanding to know who she is...that the woman in the pics looks absolutely NOTHING like Angelina/Phanie Napoli?    Just curious. 

Edited July 4, 2019 by ViceFanMan

[jpaul1]

the 80s when a shirt is a painting

[ViceFanMan]

On 1/25/2020 at 6:01 PM, jpaul1 said:

the 80s when a shirt is a painting

Yup, lol! Love the shirts and the style! 

[mjcmmv]

An amazing actor who made us appreciate his efforts to make this show as great as it was!

Edited January 27, 2020 by mjcmmv

[Lit Up]

On 7/30/2010 at 4:08 PM, MrsEvanFreed said:

Solid follow up to "Hit List" but not as good IMHO.One thing still bugs me, Rico really didn't get to truly avenge his brother's death. Sonny actually shot and killed Calderone.Wonder why the writers opted to go that route?

good point - i hadn't thought of that. 

[Robbie C.]

57 minutes ago, Lit Up said:

good point - i hadn't thought of that. 

Continuity was never a strong point with Vice. They might have just decided "Sonny's the star...he gets to shoot the big bad guy." That's one I'd be curious to see if it changed during rewrites or if that was always the intent of the episode.

[RedDragon86]

Rico killing Calderone would have been too predictable. 

 

 

[Robbie C.]

3 hours ago, RedDragon86 said:

Rico killing Calderone would have been too predictable. 

 

 

You mean like Evan sacrificing himself to save Sonny? Or the show killing both Lou and Larry when the actors left the show (something that seems to be a Dick Wolf trademark...maybe he learned it here)? Vice wasn't above being predictable in many instances. And sometimes predictability isn't a bad thing, especially if it provides a solid end to a character arc. Sonny killing Calderone just feels random and out of place...kind of like if Rico had been the one who shot Hackman in the head. That would have been unpredictable...

[RedDragon86]

21 minutes ago, Robbie C. said:

You mean like Evan sacrificing himself to save Sonny? Or the show killing both Lou and Larry when the actors left the show (something that seems to be a Dick Wolf trademark...maybe he learned it here)? Vice wasn't above being predictable in many instances. And sometimes predictability isn't a bad thing, especially if it provides a solid end to a character arc. Sonny killing Calderone just feels random and out of place...kind of like if Rico had been the one who shot Hackman in the head. That would have been unpredictable...

They were both armed, Sonny killing Calderone was realistic in my opinion. I just got the impression that it didn't really matter who killed him just as long as he was dead. It wasn't really set in stone who was going to kill him and the whole sequence was chaotic & unpredictable. Rico killing him what would have been too much of a TV, cliched moment.

If Rico & Sonny were both fighting it out with Hackman, let say in a large building and Rico shot him dead, I would accept it. 

Edited May 17, 2020 by RedDragon86

[Bren10]

Hackman didn't really take anything from Rico, but Calderone did take Eddie Rivera from Sonny, as well as Scottie Wheeler in a way. And there's also Lou, who Sonny has known longer than Rico, as well as Sonny 's house getting shot up.  Not the same as a brother, I know, but it is something that motivates Sonny shooting him storywise. There is also the irony of Sonny pulling the trigger after his little speech to Rico about getting Calderone the right way. Sonny doing it also alleviates any moral choice Rico may have had to make in the heat of the moment, especially with Angelina standing next to him. I would have more of an issue with Rico not getting Calderone himself if Tubbs had never gotten involved with Angelina or if she had simply never been created as a character at all. There could also have been some anxiety on the writing/production end about how Tubbs would be viewed after killing Calderone himself. Some may  have construed him as simply a revenge-fueled cop who just got what he wanted.

[Robbie C.]

But then the whole vendetta we saw in The Afternoon Plane should have been aimed at Sonny, not Rico.

Not that it really matters. Continuity was never a strong point with Vice.

[ViceFanMan]

6 hours ago, RedDragon86 said:

They were both armed, Sonny killing Calderone was realistic in my opinion. I just got the impression that it didn't really matter who killed him just as long as he was dead. It wasn't really set in stone who was going to kill him and the whole sequence was chaotic & unpredictable. Rico killing him what would have been too much of a TV, cliched moment.

If Rico & Sonny were both fighting it out with Hackman, let say in a large building and Rico shot him dead, I would accept it. 

 

5 hours ago, Bren10 said:

Hackman didn't really take anything from Rico, but Calderone did take Eddie Rivera from Sonny, as well as Scottie Wheeler in a way. And there's also Lou, who Sonny has known longer than Rico, as well as Sonny 's house getting shot up.  Not the same as a brother, I know, but it is something that motivates Sonny shooting him storywise. There is also the irony of Sonny pulling the trigger after his little speech to Rico about getting Calderone the right way. Sonny doing it also alleviates any moral choice Rico may have had to make in the heat of the moment, especially with Angelina standing next to him. I would have more of an issue with Rico not getting Calderone himself if Tubbs had never gotten involved with Angelina or if she had simply never been created as a character at all. There could also have been some anxiety on the writing/production end about how Tubbs would be viewed after killing Calderone himself. Some may  have construed him as simply a revenge-fueled cop who just got what he wanted.

Both of these are very well stated! Calderone was also a “bad guy” that both Crockett and Tubbs were after and had personal vendettas to settle with—the reasons stated above, and I’m adding trying to kill Crockett and his family! As far as the personal revenge idea went...it didn’t matter which one got Calderone! 

It definitely was a very chaotic & unpredictable situation at the end and as far as Sonny shooting Calderone...I don’t think it was about Crockett being the star (both he & Tubbs were the stars), but it ended up Sonny had the shot & had to take it to save Rico & himself! If Tubbs had been the one that had the opportunity, I’m sure he would have taken the shot...but agreed, it definitely would have been too much of a TV cliche! And MV was not about always doing the obvious or the predictable. 

Edited May 18, 2020 by ViceFanMan

[Matt5]

Amazing episode 10\10.

 

[ViceFanMan]

13 hours ago, Matt5 said:

Amazing episode 10\10.

 

Agreed...both Hit List and Calderone’s Demise are superb!  You have to have the Pilot TV movie to fully understand this 2-parter...but crazy as it sounds (and don’t misunderstand me, I love the Pilot) I actually like these episodes better! 

[Adrian321]

Boi......... boi....... This is my 3rd favourite episode from Season 1................. behind only Brother's keeper and Smuggler's blues (and if you watched them, you kinda have an idea that they are top notch too, even better in some aspects).

9.5/10.

            The Stinger scene,  with "Voices" in the background is a top 10 favourite scenes from the entire show of mine.

             It FINALLY, after such a long time, puts an end to "daddy Calderone", and we get the continuation of the "Hit list" episode

             We get that LOVELY music overall, and Jann Hammer has a nice performance too

             Tubbs finally gets a ....... more or less serious relationship with the "elementary teacher" or "mini Calderone", AND that scene on the beach is so M.V. I think this is also a top 10 scenes of the show for me.

               We get an upcoming good plot for "Sons and lovers" (which is  a 9/10 for me) in the next season

              One of the few times Crockett and Tubbs travell outside Miami for "buisness"

              Longest pre-credits sequence, even longer than the pilot..... this really says something

              We finally take a brake from the rest of the cast, and focus on the main characters, atleast for a bit

               We get some kind of odd beach party, and we see one of the few times when one of the main characters is kidnapped

               The end sequence is ice cold, and a bit silly (that Calderone dance, LOL)

               And.......... of course, as with any good episode, the emotional component takes a part in (more or less, depending on the episode)

               

Edited February 16, 2021 by Adrian321
Forgot something

[zachbmarsh]

This is, honestly, a really disappointing follow-up to "The Hit List" for me, although it is also kind of like its own episode rather than strictly a second half of a two-parter. Like I pointed out in my "Hit List" review, you wouldn't consider something airing today in serialization like, say, "East" and "Last Day on Earth" from The Walking Dead to be a "two-parter", but the latter DOES directly continue from the former, resolves a cliffhanger from the former, etc.

That's how I feel watching "The Hit List" and "Calderone's Demise". They're two separate episodes, all the way. The hitman is the bad guy in one, Calderone is the bad guy in the other. But where "The Hit List" really builds up the threat - as well as the mystery of who this guy is and who he's after - and kills off a main character in shocking but effective fashion, "Calderone's Demise" just kinda meanders along. The cold open is actually the best part of this episode. Once they arrive in the Bahamas... ehh. Similarly to "Cool Runnin'" there's a weird tonal imbalance between the humor and the fact that these guys are here to take down a drug lord who was responsible for their Lt.'s death.

The car chase is laughably bad. It's one thing that Crockett inexplicably drives his car into the ocean for no reason - it's a godawful decision, in any tactical situation, to turn oneself into a sitting duck - and it's another that the car blows up for no reason, but the nail in the coffin is the way they "show" the car blowing up by jump cutting from "car in the water" to "open water, no car" and chucking in a stock sound effect of an explosion. They must've run out of budget because of the on location shooting lol

I kinda buy Tubbs' relationship with Angelina, but only to a certain point. Like I buy their chemistry enough for flirtations and a hookup, but the attempt they make at giving it all this emotional weight like they're in love but he's gotta take her dad down so it can't work falls flat. And sure, you can only do so much in 48 minutes, but I would've much rather lost the car chase for one more scene between the two.

The final showdown is... terrible? I mean Calderone could've killed Sonny fifteen times but instead he monologues to no end, beats up one of his heavies to show off, and then Tubbs arrives and we get a really mediocre shootout.

My issue with Calderone's death is the way it's edited. Tubbs takes out the guy drawing down on Sonny, Calderone draws a pistol, Angelina screams, Sonny sprays wild with the machine gun, and then suddenly Calderone is sitting on the ground next to the pool and flops backwards. And we get that final resolution in a far-away shot that really just muddles the geography of the scene further. It's probably been 15 years since I've seen this episode, and I knew that Sonny killed Calderone instead of Tubbs. But I had it more in my head that there was more of a struggle, and that Sonny more or less killed him to save Tubbs at the last second. I mean, that kinda happens here, but I think Tubbs would've had the drop on Calderone with the other barrel of his shotgun if it had come down to it.

I understand that when this aired originally, there was at least one extra shot of Calderone taking the hits from Sonny's shots, but that no one has seen that edit ever since the original broadcast. I really think the sequence needs that in order to work properly. Watching it now seriously feels like someone cut 5 seconds out of the episode randomly... which I guess is actually what happened hahahaha

As for Sonny killing Calderone instead of Tubbs getting his revenge... I actually like that. The entire episode, Sonny is the guy insisting the entire episode that they go by the book and get justice, not revenge, but he's ultimately the one forced to pull the trigger to save his friend. That, on paper, is really compelling.

The finale set to "What's Love Got to Do with It" sticks the landing, but only so much. Overall, the idea of this episode is WAY better than the execution. 3.5/10

EDIT: Oh, I forgot. Those shrieks as Calderone bites it! One or two "NOOOOOOOOOO!"s would've been acceptable, but there are like... seven! Completely ruins the scene.

Edited March 10, 2021 by zachbmarsh

[Eillio Martin Imbasciati]

2 hours ago, zachbmarsh said:

This is, honestly, a really disappointing follow-up to "The Hit List" for me, although it is also kind of like its own episode rather than strictly a second half of a two-parter. Like I pointed out in my "Hit List" review, you wouldn't consider something airing today in serialization like, say, "East" and "Last Day on Earth" from The Walking Dead to be a "two-parter", but the latter DOES directly continue from the former, resolves a cliffhanger from the former, etc.

That's how I feel watching "The Hit List" and "Calderone's Demise". They're two separate episodes, all the way. The hitman is the bad guy in one, Calderone is the bad guy in the other. But where "The Hit List" really builds up the threat - as well as the mystery of who this guy is and who he's after - and kills off a main character in shocking but effective fashion, "Calderone's Demise" just kinda meanders along. The cold open is actually the best part of this episode. Once they arrive in the Bahamas... ehh. Similarly to "Cool Runnin'" there's a weird tonal imbalance between the humor and the fact that these guys are here to take down a drug lord who was responsible for their Lt.'s death.

The car chase is laughably bad. It's one thing that Crockett inexplicably drives his car into the ocean for no reason - it's a godawful decision, in any tactical situation, to turn oneself into a sitting duck - and it's another that the car blows up for no reason, but the nail in the coffin is the way they "show" the car blowing up by jump cutting from "car in the water" to "open water, no car" and chucking in a stock sound effect of an explosion. They must've run out of budget because of the on location shooting lol

I kinda buy Tubbs' relationship with Angelina, but only to a certain point. Like I buy their chemistry enough for flirtations and a hookup, but the attempt they make at giving it all this emotional weight like they're in love but he's gotta take her dad down so it can't work falls flat. And sure, you can only do so much in 48 minutes, but I would've much rather lost the car chase for one more scene between the two.

The final showdown is... terrible? I mean Calderone could've killed Sonny fifteen times but instead he monologues to no end, beats up one of his heavies to show off, and then Tubbs arrives and we get a really mediocre shootout.

My issue with Calderone's death is the way it's edited. Tubbs takes out the guy drawing down on Sonny, Calderone draws a pistol, Angelina screams, Sonny sprays wild with the machine gun, and then suddenly Calderone is sitting on the ground next to the pool and flops backwards. And we get that final resolution in a far-away shot that really just muddles the geography of the scene further. It's probably been 15 years since I've seen this episode, and I knew that Sonny killed Calderone instead of Tubbs. But I had it more in my head that there was more of a struggle, and that Sonny more or less killed him to save Tubbs at the last second. I mean, that kinda happens here, but I think Tubbs would've had the drop on Calderone with the other barrel of his shotgun if it had come down to it.

I understand that when this aired originally, there was at least one extra shot of Calderone taking the hits from Sonny's shots, but that no one has seen that edit ever since the original broadcast. I really think the sequence needs that in order to work properly. Watching it now seriously feels like someone cut 5 seconds out of the episode randomly... which I guess is actually what happened hahahaha

As for Sonny killing Calderone instead of Tubbs getting his revenge... I actually like that. The entire episode, Sonny is the guy insisting the entire episode that they go by the book and get justice, not revenge, but he's ultimately the one forced to pull the trigger to save his friend. That, on paper, is really compelling.

The finale set to "What's Love Got to Do with It" sticks the landing, but only so much. Overall, the idea of this episode is WAY better than the execution. 3.5/10

EDIT: Oh, I forgot. Those shrieks as Calderone bites it! One or two "NOOOOOOOOOO!"s would've been acceptable, but there are like... seven! Completely ruins the scene.

My main issue with Calderone's demise is the aftermath, as it's Tubbs who is acknowledged as Calderone's killer in conversation, even by himself! But yeah, I do think it's great that Calderone died by Crockett's hand due to the irony and necessity of it (maybe Calderone shouldn't have kidnapped Crockett; what, did he think Tubbs wouldn't come for him, or did he think it gave him an advantage?).

Roger Ebert, in some of his film reviews, mentioned "the talking killer" when those kind of characters made an appearance, and Calderone was definitely one of those guys ("They can't catch one little man...", although he was right about that).

I see the episode myself as an extension but also a separate episode: I actually think of the first episode as 'Calderone's Return', while this one here is 'Calderone's Demise'; they're bookends to me, but completely different.

[Eillio Martin Imbasciati]

On 3/10/2021 at 1:45 PM, zachbmarsh said:

This is, honestly, a really disappointing follow-up to "The Hit List" for me, although it is also kind of like its own episode rather than strictly a second half of a two-parter. Like I pointed out in my "Hit List" review, you wouldn't consider something airing today in serialization like, say, "East" and "Last Day on Earth" from The Walking Dead to be a "two-parter", but the latter DOES directly continue from the former, resolves a cliffhanger from the former, etc.

That's how I feel watching "The Hit List" and "Calderone's Demise". They're two separate episodes, all the way. The hitman is the bad guy in one, Calderone is the bad guy in the other. But where "The Hit List" really builds up the threat - as well as the mystery of who this guy is and who he's after - and kills off a main character in shocking but effective fashion, "Calderone's Demise" just kinda meanders along. The cold open is actually the best part of this episode. Once they arrive in the Bahamas... ehh. Similarly to "Cool Runnin'" there's a weird tonal imbalance between the humor and the fact that these guys are here to take down a drug lord who was responsible for their Lt.'s death.

The car chase is laughably bad. It's one thing that Crockett inexplicably drives his car into the ocean for no reason - it's a godawful decision, in any tactical situation, to turn oneself into a sitting duck - and it's another that the car blows up for no reason, but the nail in the coffin is the way they "show" the car blowing up by jump cutting from "car in the water" to "open water, no car" and chucking in a stock sound effect of an explosion. They must've run out of budget because of the on location shooting lol

I kinda buy Tubbs' relationship with Angelina, but only to a certain point. Like I buy their chemistry enough for flirtations and a hookup, but the attempt they make at giving it all this emotional weight like they're in love but he's gotta take her dad down so it can't work falls flat. And sure, you can only do so much in 48 minutes, but I would've much rather lost the car chase for one more scene between the two.

The final showdown is... terrible? I mean Calderone could've killed Sonny fifteen times but instead he monologues to no end, beats up one of his heavies to show off, and then Tubbs arrives and we get a really mediocre shootout.

My issue with Calderone's death is the way it's edited. Tubbs takes out the guy drawing down on Sonny, Calderone draws a pistol, Angelina screams, Sonny sprays wild with the machine gun, and then suddenly Calderone is sitting on the ground next to the pool and flops backwards. And we get that final resolution in a far-away shot that really just muddles the geography of the scene further. It's probably been 15 years since I've seen this episode, and I knew that Sonny killed Calderone instead of Tubbs. But I had it more in my head that there was more of a struggle, and that Sonny more or less killed him to save Tubbs at the last second. I mean, that kinda happens here, but I think Tubbs would've had the drop on Calderone with the other barrel of his shotgun if it had come down to it.

I understand that when this aired originally, there was at least one extra shot of Calderone taking the hits from Sonny's shots, but that no one has seen that edit ever since the original broadcast. I really think the sequence needs that in order to work properly. Watching it now seriously feels like someone cut 5 seconds out of the episode randomly... which I guess is actually what happened hahahaha

As for Sonny killing Calderone instead of Tubbs getting his revenge... I actually like that. The entire episode, Sonny is the guy insisting the entire episode that they go by the book and get justice, not revenge, but he's ultimately the one forced to pull the trigger to save his friend. That, on paper, is really compelling.

The finale set to "What's Love Got to Do with It" sticks the landing, but only so much. Overall, the idea of this episode is WAY better than the execution. 3.5/10

EDIT: Oh, I forgot. Those shrieks as Calderone bites it! One or two "NOOOOOOOOOO!"s would've been acceptable, but there are like... seven! Completely ruins the scene.

I did like 'Calderone's Return' better, due to the characters such as The Argentinian, Linus, and that limo driver that left his post (he reminded me of a cross between a Wham!-era George Michael & Michael Biehn) and allowed The Argentinian to shoot up Felix's limo Artie Rollins-style (that driver was no match for The Argentinian anyway). I definitely found that episode more interesting, since there were a lot of different locations & things going on (Lou getting shot, Crockett & Caroline briefly reunite, the club scene, the shootout at the Crockett household).

My favorite part of 'Calderone's Demise' is after Crockett drives the car into a ocean and Tubbs questions if both of them are on this case all alone. Crockett's "Ju got it mang; we're so under, we may as well be on another planet" line is good stuff for me. Then, he puts his wet hat back on (James "Funny" Crockett)! 

Edited March 11, 2021 by Eillio Martin Imbasciati
poor wording

[ViceFanMan]

This pic has probably been posted before, but came across this online earlier...love the shirts & Crockett’s pants! I miss the 80s!!  

[Christine]

Am 17.5.2020 um 19:01 schrieb RedDragon86:

Rico killing Calderone would have been too predictable. 

 

 

I think we shouldn´t forget that Rico had fallen in love with Angelina. He didn´t plan it, but it happened. I assume that he ordered Angelina to stay somewhere else while he wanted to go to Calderone. But Angelina didn´t obey the order. That might be the reason why she entered the room from the left side while Rico came from the right side. What could he have done? Of course he wanted to shoot Calderone, but not with Angelina as a witness, and then everything went fast and Sonny killed Calderone. That´s what I think about the scene.

[TylerDurden389]

First time I saw this episode, I thought the way Calderone died was kinda weird. The way he's sitting there upright, lifts up his arms, then they go down again until his head flops into the pool. I'm guessing network television back then could only do so much with this sorta stuff and there must've been shots that were cut out/removed.

[Christine]

vor 2 Minuten schrieb TylerDurden389:

First time I saw this episode, I thought the way Calderone died was kinda weird. The way he's sitting there upright, lifts up his arms, then they go down again until his head flops into the pool. I'm guessing network television back then could only do so much with this sorta stuff and there must've been shots that were cut out/removed.

Why? Do you have the feeling that something is missing in the scene?

I think the way he dies is brilliant. Especially because he sits on the edge of the pool for a moment before he topples backwards without falling completely into the pool. That's actually what you're waiting for when someone dies in that position. Not so Calderone.