Ferrariman

Episode #4 "Hit List"

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Guest myonlyvice   
Guest myonlyvice

This episode is great. Listening to everyone rave about it makes me appreciate this one even more. The only thing I don't like about these two episodes is the timing. I don't understand why they played this ace card so early in the season. I think this two-parter would have made a great finale. At least hold on to it long enough to let the audience be somewhat shocked to hear Calderone's name again. But this observation is actually more of a curiosity than a complaint. This episode rocks!

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ViceFanMan    198
ViceFanMan

I agree, myonlyvice! This episode, and part 2 (in reality the episodes are "Calderone's Return" Pts. 1 & 2) are my all-time favorite "MV" episodes! They would have made a superb season finale...the show premiering with Calderone, and the season ending with a continuation of the Calderone saga.But, for whatever reason they chose to air them in sort of like the middle of the season. Maybe it was because Gregory Sierra was wanting off the show, so they decided to go ahead and use them to kill off his character as soon as possible in order to bring in and/or introduce Edward James Olmos' character of Castillo?? I don't know?Either way, I LOVE these episodes and they truly "scream" true "Miami Vice" to me...and I can watch them over and over and over....:thumbsup:

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MiamiVice85    0
MiamiVice85

Hit List is not one of my favourites....

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Guest myonlyvice   
Guest myonlyvice

LOVE these episodes and they truly "scream" true "Miami Vice" to me...and I can watch them over and over and over....:thumbsup:

What other episodes would you propose to have Lou offed? Plot-wise, it clearly worked well to ice him in this episode but I think it also would have worked to do it "Cool Runnning". Have one of those out-of-control Rastas whack him and then get payback at the end. Or have him rubbed out by one of Lombard's guys in "One Eyed Jack". There were so many other ways to have Lou taken care of and I still wish they would have saved these two eps. for late in the season if not a season finale.

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ViceFanMan    198
ViceFanMan

Hit List is not one of my favourites....

That's too bad...you're "missing out" on one "heleva" episode/s! ;) But, to each his or her own. :cool:

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ViceFanMan    198
ViceFanMan
What other episodes would you propose to have Lou offed? Plot-wise' date=' it clearly worked well to ice him in this episode but I think it also would have worked to do it "Cool Runnning". Have one of those out-of-control Rastas whack him and then get payback at the end. Or have him rubbed out by one of Lombard's guys in "One Eyed Jack". There were so many other ways to have Lou taken care of and I still wish they would have saved these two eps. for late in the season if not a season finale.[/quote']I always liked Gregory Sierra and his character of Lou. But, I liked Castillo too. So, if Sierra's character had to be "offed" then I definitely think this "Calderone's Return" 2-parter was the episode/s to have it done in! I just wish they'd of waited to air this, and the exiting of Lou, at the end of the season. I almost wonder if they originally planned to have this as the season finale...but when Sierra wanted to leave the show part way into it, they decided to move the airing time up so they could introduce Castillo as quickly as possible--to give people time to get used to him and move on with the show. Who knows??

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Guest myonlyvice   
Guest myonlyvice

had to be "offed" then I definitely think this "Calderone's Return" 2-parter was the episode/s to have it done in! I just wish they'd of waited to air this, and the exiting of Lou, at the end of the season. I almost wonder if they originally planned to have this as the season finale...but when Sierra wanted to leave the show part way into it, they decided to move the airing time up so they could introduce Castillo as quickly as possible--to give people time to get used to him and move on with the show. Who knows??

What did you like so much about Lou? I find his character so run-of-the-mill that, had he stayed on as lieutenant, I don't think Vice would have been renewed through 5 seasons. Lou was that forgettable and Castillo was that pivotal, IMO. I'm sure you've noticed how the tone of the show radically shifted with the arrival of Castillo. This was the tone that etched the name "Miami Vice" into television lore. I really don't believe this would have happened with Lou as boss, despite how cool C&T (and all the things they bring with them) were. We should all be so thankful G.S. wanted out!

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ViceFanMan    198
ViceFanMan

that forgettable and Castillo was that pivotal, IMO. I'm sure you've noticed how the tone of the show radically shifted with the arrival of Castillo. This was the tone that etched the name "Miami Vice" into television lore. I really don't believe this would have happened with Lou as boss, despite how cool C&T (and all the things they bring with them) were. We should all be so thankful G.S. wanted out!

I'm sorry, but I disagree. Lou's character was "real" and more down-to-earth. Yes, this was drastically different than Castillo's character...but that doesn't mean it was forgettable! :eek: Castillo was a pivotal character, yes...but to be honest once the show got to really "going" ALL the characters became pivotal in different ways. If Lou had stayed, the producers/writers would have found ways to make him pivotal as well. The "tone" that etched "Miami Vice" into television lore was the integration of colors (clothing, buildings, surroundings, lighting, etc...) and music in with "raw" acts of violence--NOT the character of Martin Castillo! ;) If we want to look at which characters that played the most pivotal roles in this color and music scheme...it would be Crockett and Tubbs. But, the other characters had their moments too.Don't get me wrong...I loved the character of Castillo--as well as all the others. But, I also loved Lou at the beginning too! He and Crockett were closer, not only as two cops working together, but almost like a father and son. Castillo and Crockett butted heads from the start...and it never really stopped or went away. Sometimes that worked in certain episodes...other times it got kind of old.But, I loved both and/or all characters of the show, and regaurdless of whether or not Lou had stayed, I'm sure the series would have gone for its 5 seasons. The popularity and mezmorizing qualities, again, came from the colors and music--like a show in the middle of an MTV music video (which is what they wanted to do). :thumbsup:

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Guest myonlyvice   
Guest myonlyvice

ALL the characters became pivotal in different ways. If Lou had stayed, the producers/writers would have found ways to make him pivotal as well. The "tone" that etched "Miami Vice" into television lore was the integration of colors (clothing, buildings, surroundings, lighting, etc...) and music in with "raw" acts of violence--NOT the character of Martin Castillo! ;) If we want to look at which characters that played the most pivotal roles in this color and music scheme...it would be Crockett and Tubbs. But, the other characters had their moments too.Don't get me wrong...I loved the character of Castillo--as well as all the others. But, I also loved Lou at the beginning too! He and Crockett were closer, not only as two cops working together, but almost like a father and son. Castillo and Crockett butted heads from the start...and it never really stopped or went away. Sometimes that worked in certain episodes...other times it got kind of old.But, I loved both and/or all characters of the show, and regaurdless of whether or not Lou had stayed, I'm sure the series would have gone for its 5 seasons. The popularity and mezmorizing qualities, again, came from the colors and music--like a show in the middle of an MTV music video (which is what they wanted to do). :thumbsup:

You make a good point about all the characters being or eventually becoming pivotal. However, I wasn't implying that C&T (and Gina and Trudy and Swi and Zito) weren't integral, nor do I believe that Vice was the "Castillo Show". I was simply concerned with Lou vs. Castillo and what they individually bring to the table as this was the topic at hand. I believe that the presence of the Lou character indicated nothing other than a very young show that had yet to realize its full potential and was still looking to put all the pieces in place. This old-fashioned, heavy-handed, cigar-chewing, loud, brash police lieutenant was one of the few ties to past tradition that the show had yet to break with. Everything else in the show was so fresh and unique. A character like him just didn't fit. Had he stayed it would have been less enjoyable to watch. It would be like having a sparkling Ferrari Daytona but filling it up with lower grade fuel. It will run but, come on! You want that sucker to RUN!! And I do believe that had Lou been the only lieutenant we only would have wound up with 3 or 4 seasons, primarily because such a situation would betray a deeper problem of, shall we say, a lack of cojones on the part of the producers. I don't know all the details behind G.S.'s departure. I've heard various scenarios and don't know what to believe actually. Whatever happened, I do believe that providence had a hand in it. :cool: From what we got to see of Lou, this character could have been replaced with any number of policeman-boss characters from tv shows of that era and things never would have skipped a beat. He was neither interesting nor compelling to watch, IMO. Obviously one could make the argument that had he stayed on he would have grown through subsequent character development. Yeah, maybe. But consider that while Lou had ~4 episodes to show who he was the Castillo character needed exactly 2 seconds to establish that he was totally different from all the others and exponentially more effective at what he does. Compared to Lou, you can't take your eyes off him because his manner is so imposing yet he's taciturn. It's crazy! You refer to Lou as "real" and "down-to-earth" but I see this as nothing more than code for "forgettable". "real" and "down-to-earth" don't make fodder for good storytelling, at least not in the case of Vice. Based on what we saw of Lou, I personally don't ever see him becoming someone who could take an entire episode on his shoulders the way Castillo did in "Bushido", for example. I mean can you picture Lou in "Bushido"? Forget that the epiosde was custom made for the Castillo character and just try to imagine any episode custom made for Lou. It just doesn't work because, unlike Castillo and for that matter the rest of the Vice unit (with the exception of the Gina character at times), this guy was so stereotypical and derivative that, as a viewer, I'm not provoked into wanting to know more about him. Unlike the others he wasn't an individual but the product of a cookie cutter. Even Switek and Zito, who at the beginning were apparently cast as nothing more than comic-relief were somehow more interesting than Lou. (They would pass him by miles as the series progressed.) The visual aspect of the show was so very important, just as you say. You cannot understate the importance of it and I certainly recognize this importance. The colors, clothing, boats, cars, landscape, partying, etc. will never cease to mesmerize me as a viewer. But in the end all these things can be replicated without much effort by other shows. Vice was the first to use these things like it did but it doesn't have a monopoly on it, at least not now. What is much harder to replicate even today and was equally crucial to the long-term success of the show was what I can only describe as this underlying "intensity". Vice can be light-hearted at times but this is not it's defining characteristic. It's the feeling of tension you get in your stomach when you see the things that the show presented and the manner in which it presented them. I sensed this intensity the greatest during the first viewing of any particular episode. But it's still there even after scores of viewings. This intensity is what I was referring to when I mentioned the "tone" of the show. Castillo was the embodiment of this intensity. The guy was like a contained nuclear explosion on two feet. I can easily see how you didn't get what I was referring to, though. It's my fault as "tone" is a very generic term and I'm realizing that I can't really even describe it now when I'm trying. :) All this stuff is subjective anyway. It's our favorite show and we're passionate about it. I say this only because I don't want there to be hard feelings. I certainly want to hear your thoughts but I'm not trying pick a fight. I value your opinion as much as I hope you value mine.

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ViceFanMan    198
ViceFanMan
You make a good point about all the characters being or eventually becoming pivotal. However' date=' I wasn't implying that C&T (and Gina and Trudy and Swi and Zito) weren't integral, nor do I believe that Vice was the "Castillo Show". I was simply concerned with Lou vs. Castillo and what they individually bring to the table as this was the topic at hand. I believe that the presence of the Lou character indicated nothing other than a very young show that had yet to realize its full potential and was still looking to put all the pieces in place. This old-fashioned, heavy-handed, cigar-chewing, loud, brash police lieutenant was one of the few ties to past tradition that the show had yet to break with. Everything else in the show was so fresh and unique. A character like him just didn't fit. Had he stayed it would have been less enjoyable to watch. It would be like having a sparkling Ferrari Daytona but filling it up with lower grade fuel. It will run but, come on! You want that sucker to RUN!! And I do believe that had Lou been the only lieutenant we only would have wound up with 3 or 4 seasons, primarily because such a situation would betray a deeper problem of, shall we say, a lack of cojones on the part of the producers. I don't know all the details behind G.S.'s departure. I've heard various scenarios and don't know what to believe actually. Whatever happened, I do believe that providence had a hand in it. :cool: From what we got to see of Lou, this character could have been replaced with any number of policeman-boss characters from tv shows of that era and things never would have skipped a beat. He was neither interesting nor compelling to watch, IMO. Obviously one could make the argument that had he stayed on he would have grown through subsequent character development. Yeah, maybe. But consider that while Lou had ~4 episodes to show who he was the Castillo character needed exactly 2 seconds to establish that he was totally different from all the others and exponentially more effective at what he does. Compared to Lou, you can't take your eyes off him because his manner is so imposing yet he's taciturn. It's crazy! You refer to Lou as "real" and "down-to-earth" but I see this as nothing more than code for "forgettable". "real" and "down-to-earth" don't make fodder for good storytelling, at least not in the case of Vice. Based on what we saw of Lou, I personally don't ever see him becoming someone who could take an entire episode on his shoulders the way Castillo did in "Bushido", for example. I mean can you picture Lou in "Bushido"? Forget that the epiosde was custom made for the Castillo character and just try to imagine any episode custom made for Lou. It just doesn't work because, unlike Castillo and for that matter the rest of the Vice unit (with the exception of the Gina character at times), this guy was so stereotypical and derivative that, as a viewer, I'm not provoked into wanting to know more about him. Unlike the others he wasn't an individual but the product of a cookie cutter. Even Switek and Zito, who at the beginning were apparently cast as nothing more than comic-relief were somehow more interesting than Lou. (They would pass him by miles as the series progressed.) The visual aspect of the show was so very important, just as you say. You cannot understate the importance of it and I certainly recognize this importance. The colors, clothing, boats, cars, landscape, partying, etc. will never cease to mesmerize me as a viewer. But in the end all these things can be replicated without much effort by other shows. Vice was the first to use these things like it did but it doesn't have a monopoly on it, at least not now. What is much harder to replicate even today and was equally crucial to the long-term success of the show was what I can only describe as this underlying "intensity". Vice can be light-hearted at times but this is not it's defining characteristic. It's the feeling of tension you get in your stomach when you see the things that the show presented and the manner in which it presented them. I sensed this intensity the greatest during the first viewing of any particular episode. But it's still there even after scores of viewings. This intensity is what I was referring to when I mentioned the "tone" of the show. Castillo was the embodiment of this intensity. The guy was like a contained nuclear explosion on two feet. I can easily see how you didn't get what I was referring to, though. It's my fault as "tone" is a very generic term and I'm realizing that I can't really even describe it now when I'm trying. :) All this stuff is subjective anyway. It's our favorite show and we're passionate about it. I say this only because I don't want there to be hard feelings. I certainly want to hear your thoughts but I'm not trying pick a fight. I value your opinion as much as I hope you value mine.[/quote']myonlyvice,LOL! Oh, by no means do I have hard feelings or am I trying to pick a fight! That would be ridiculous to actually get that upset or be that affected by discussing an old television show! If I seemed angry or upset, then I appologize. I like "dissecting" episodes, characters, music, etc...from the show with others. That's what makes it fun and interesting!I simply was just discussing the differences between Castillo and Lou, and why I liked both characters. I do agree that Castillo was way more intense and was definitely the right choice when Lou left. I too have heard several stories on why Gregory Sierra left the show...who knows which one is right, if any of them?? I also agree that the intensity of the show was the actual pivotal "character", so-to-speak--and was the true driving force. Much of what made up this intensity was the color scheme, music, settings, and (for the time) serious acts of violence all mixed together in something that had not been done before. That's what made "MV" so memorable and now considered a contemporary classic show...because it was the first.But, like you said, so many things have been copied and done somewhat the same since...so I don't think they could do a re-make and have it work. However, the pastels and "MV" colors are all back in style right now. But, even though many aspects of the series have been replicated over the years, I actually don't think they'll ever so a show just like "MV" again--it will always be sort of its own thing. That's what makes it special.They need to do an "MV" reunion movie--while the colors are still back! :)

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Guest myonlyvice   
Guest myonlyvice

television show! If I seemed angry or upset, then I appologize. I like "dissecting" episodes, characters, music, etc...from the show with others. That's what makes it fun and interesting!I simply was just discussing the differences between Castillo and Lou, and why I liked both characters. I do agree that Castillo was way more intense and was definitely the right choice when Lou left. I too have heard several stories on why Gregory Sierra left the show...who knows which one is right, if any of them?? I also agree that the intensity of the show was the actual pivotal "character", so-to-speak--and was the true driving force. Much of what made up this intensity was the color scheme, music, settings, and (for the time) serious acts of violence all mixed together in something that had not been done before. That's what made "MV" so memorable and now considered a contemporary classic show...because it was the first.But, like you said, so many things have been copied and done somewhat the same since...so I don't think they could do a re-make and have it work. However, the pastels and "MV" colors are all back in style right now. But, even though many aspects of the series have been replicated over the years, I actually don't think they'll ever so a show just like "MV" again--it will always be sort of its own thing. That's what makes it special.They need to do an "MV" reunion movie--while the colors are still back! :)

I'm with you, pal. Love those colors!Glad to hear you're cool with the discussions. Sometimes you never know because you know so little about the person you're having the discussion with. Just thought I'd err on the side of caution.

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Guest myonlyvice   
Guest myonlyvice

television show! If I seemed angry or upset, then I appologize. I like "dissecting" episodes, characters, music, etc...from the show with others. That's what makes it fun and interesting!I simply was just discussing the differences between Castillo and Lou, and why I liked both characters. I do agree that Castillo was way more intense and was definitely the right choice when Lou left. I too have heard several stories on why Gregory Sierra left the show...who knows which one is right, if any of them?? I also agree that the intensity of the show was the actual pivotal "character", so-to-speak--and was the true driving force. Much of what made up this intensity was the color scheme, music, settings, and (for the time) serious acts of violence all mixed together in something that had not been done before. That's what made "MV" so memorable and now considered a contemporary classic show...because it was the first.But, like you said, so many things have been copied and done somewhat the same since...so I don't think they could do a re-make and have it work. However, the pastels and "MV" colors are all back in style right now. But, even though many aspects of the series have been replicated over the years, I actually don't think they'll ever so a show just like "MV" again--it will always be sort of its own thing. That's what makes it special.They need to do an "MV" reunion movie--while the colors are still back! :)

Also I never thought you were trying to pick a fight. I was afraid you might think I was trying to pick a fight! I glad we're the type that can have discussions without getting our shorts in a twist. :thumbsup: Let's do it some more!!!

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ViceFanMan    198
ViceFanMan
I'm with you' date=' pal. Love those colors!Glad to hear you're cool with the discussions. Sometimes you never know because you know so little about the person you're having the discussion with. Just thought I'd err on the side of caution.[/quote']No problem...as corny and "old" as this saying is, it still rings true: better to be safe than sorry! :cool: As for the "MV" colors...I'm loving it all over again! LOL! :) I have several teal and pink shirts that I occasionally wear. I figure I better enjoy it now, because in another 5-10 years the whole "MV" color scheme will probably go out of style once again--and then no guy will be caught dead wearing pink or teal (for another 20-25 years). ;)

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Joe    17
Joe
Hit List is together with Calderones Demise one of the best episodes of the whole series!:happy::happy::thumbsup:There's no break between the end of the pilot and the beginning of Hit List, so it could be seen as one big film.At the beginning of this story, you think that it's normal routine: Sonny and Rico observe a drugdealer with a couple of good-looking women and Sonny has to go to his appointment of divorce.Afterwards the hitman with his perfect shooting-style is noticeable.An then it gets worse and worse: Sonny's on a hitlist, Rodriguez is shooted, Caroline and Billy are in danger.:hot:And Rodriguez DIES!!:freeze:That's a fact which has shocked me when I saw this episode for the first time! I didn't assume that such an important charakter will die during the 4th (!!!) episode!!!But on the other side, this makes the show realistic!:clap:Furthermore Hit List has an excellent camera work::happy: One of the best club-scenes of the whole series are shown: Sonny, Rico, Stan, Larry, Gina and Trudy with Linus waiting for Mendez in the "Heaven" disco!!!:clap::glossy: (playing I'm so Excited by Pointer Sisters:radio:)This terrific episode ends with a bombastic shootout between the Argentinian and Sonny!Shootouts were never shown so detailed than in VICE and we know exactly that this series will change TV and cinema.:happy:Plenty of good humour and cool clothings are also mentionable: first example - Switek calls "...SHE'S NAKED" and Zito runs.:DSecond example - Rico wearing Carrera sunglasses; Sonny wearing blue Jacket, black shirt and pastel trousers!:happy:Concerning music I love In the Night by Russ Ballard - typically 80s and typically VICE!:radio::radio:10 of 10 points!

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ViceFanMan    198
ViceFanMan

Yup...could not have said it better myself!! :thumbsup:

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Joe    17
Joe

Yup...could not have said it better myself!! :thumbsup:

Thanks, pal!:thumbsup:

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ViceFanMan    198
ViceFanMan

No problem! :cool:

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MiamiVice23    5
MiamiVice23

Hit List4. Calderone’s Return Part I (Hit List)Yes! This is a terrific continuance of the Calderone story arc. The Argentinean pulling out the Mozambique technique at the beginning was so bad a$$. This whole episode is filled with tension. Crockett is dealing with a lot at the beginning with his upcoming divorce hearing. Then comes the news that he is on the shooters Hit List. I will say that when Rodriguez was shot on Crockett’s boat, I was surprised a little bit. I was thinking “no way they are killing of a character this earlyâ€. That’s ok though, we get Castillo! Good tradeoff. I loved the scene in the hospital where Tubbs was trying to straighten Crockett up and stop him from going back out in the streets. Oh and Crockett’s Theme makes its first appearance. You can’t have Miami Vice without this masterpiece. The scene associated with it was good. Great scenery at the lighthouse as well as Sonny and Caroline’s talk. Sonny also becomes a bit paranoid as the hit list is becoming complete as shown by him pulling a gun at the man giving him back his cigs. Now we come to the best scene in the episode. I can’t say enough about Miami Vice and their incorporation of music into scenes. It is just top notch and Russ Ballard’s “In The Night†while Tubbs is speeding in the Daytona to Sonny’s house is just perfect. The scenery is just superb. The final shootout in Crockett’s house was pretty entertaining. In the end, I wasn’t surprised with Caroline leaving. As long as Sonny is a vice cop, he will always have enemies out there so his family won’t be 100% safe. Anyway, this is one of my favorites in Season 1 and is just a great mix of music, story, and imagery. 10/10

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arsanat    2
arsanat

This is my favorite epi of Calderone's Return. Great tension and twists. Did not see Lou's death coming. I was sorry to see him go. I think Vice would have been an entirely different show if he'd stayed. But, I can't regret Castillo's arrival.The Argentinian is definitely the scariest bad guy in MV history. He was completely believable.

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Matt5    1,919
Matt5

Such a fine episode:D

One of the first ones I watched :D

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MrsEvanFreed    25
MrsEvanFreed
This is my favorite epi of Calderone's Return. Great tension and twists. Did not see Lou's death coming. I was sorry to see him go. I think Vice would have been an entirely different show if he'd stayed. But' date=' I can't regret Castillo's arrival.The Argentinian is definitely the scariest bad guy in MV history. He was completely believable.[/quote']Too bad he was killed off, would've like to see that guy pop up again on MV.

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arsanat    2
arsanat
Too bad he was killed off' date=' would've like to see that guy pop up again on MV.[/quote']So would I. Orlando needed a real hitman to finish off Tubbs. ;)

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scarabee    0
scarabee

Great episode. I gave a 9.It starts with this great opening shot of Sonny shaving ànd smoking. Nice!The story has a good mix of fun elements (like the busting of the drugdealer Linus) and tension. The Argentinian is real scary.Most of the music was a bit too Knightrider-esque in my humble opinion. But I loooooved Crockett's theme and the song in the scene when Tubbs is speeding to Sonny's house in the Ferrari. And of course the dance music in the club was nice and really 80's.The storyline with Caroline was very sweet; Sonny and Caroline getting back together. They look great in their white clothes when they're at the court. The scene at the coast when Caroline and Billy are in protection, when Sonny's visiting them, is so.... intense. Moving. I can't really find the word for it. Just the image is visually like a painting. The pastel colours, the composition, the ocean, Sonny's torso. And then the music, Crockett's theme, so touching. And then the story, Sonny saying goodbye, not knowing whether he will see them again, not knowing he'll survive. All elements make a perfect total.I thought the shoot-out in Crockett's house was very heavy, and I could imagine how traumatizing it must have been for Caroline, and little Billy.I really liked Tubb's loyalty towards Crockett and I also liked the end when the men are off to catch Calderone. Though I have watched the whole series already, I can't wait to watch the next episode.By the way, this episode is called "Calderone's Return" on my dvd, not "Hit list".

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BlackJack    10
BlackJack

THis is my favorite Miami Vice episode. I barely remember it when it originally aired. Bought Series 1 on DVD last year and have just finished Season 2. So I have plenty left to watch. But this is my fave so far.Great music, great plot, fantastic punch up in the disco at the end. Superb

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