kokopelli Posted November 3, 2009 Report Share Posted November 3, 2009 In other threads I've asked about the Burnett trilogy Sig P220 and the backup gun after the Detonics. Well after a lot of pause, play, pause, slow...etc, I've made some progress. The finish on the 220 I wondered about is a two tone blued/black slide with a silver frame that has matching silver decocker and slide stop. Most likely the finish is an electroless nickle or a hard chrome, either with a satin or brushed finish (not shiny).His backup after the Detonics Combatmaster is the S&W 6906. In bad timing, there is a really good shot of it as he raises it up and starts to enter the shack. You can see the red 'dot' signifying 'safe' and 'fire' is on the frame, as opposed to the slide as in the model 669. As the 6906 was introduced in '88 it makes sense that S&W would want it to match the 4506. In 'Viking Bikers' he shoots the bad guy in the gut with his Combatmaster then they both fly over the rail. I assume this is where he loses the Combatmaster and transitions to the 6906.Now, here's something that bothers me from the pilot episode. Everything I read says his main carry gun is a Browning BDA (sig 220) in .45 auto. It most certainly is a BDA, but I believe it to be a 9mm, not a .45. The barrel diameter looks awful small to be a .45. Look at the muzzle in the shots. We get a really good look at the muzzle when Crockett jumps into Leon's convertible Mercedes and has the gun drawn on him. The barrel just looks way to small to be a .45. I'm betting 9mm to match his Detonics Pocket Nine backup.Since all his carry/bug pairings have been like calibers, it only makes sense that the BDA is a 9mm.What say you? Also, if anyone could please tell me how to get a 'screen grab' from the dvd's I'll post pics of my examples!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators timm525 Posted November 3, 2009 Administrators Report Share Posted November 3, 2009 ...Now' date=' here's something that bothers me from the pilot episode. Everything I read says his main carry gun is a Browning BDA (sig 220) in .45 auto. It most certainly is a BDA, but I believe it to be a 9mm, not a .45. The barrel diameter looks awful small to be a .45. Look at the muzzle in the shots. We get a really good look at the muzzle when Crockett jumps into Leon's convertible Mercedes and has the gun drawn on him. The barrel just looks way to small to be a .45. I'm betting 9mm to match his Detonics Pocket Nine backup...[/quote']No way this is a .45. 9mm for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators timm525 Posted November 3, 2009 Administrators Report Share Posted November 3, 2009 Screen shots need to be done with DVD software that is capable of taking them while playing a DVD.Do a google search on it and I'm sure you will find a lot of free software you can use.I recently switched computers so I can't tell you what I used in the past. Sorry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary1911A1 Posted November 3, 2009 Report Share Posted November 3, 2009 It could be they also used a Browning BDA in 9MM in addition to .45ACP as 9MM Blanks were more available back then for shooting scenes. The same was true of Bill Cosby's Commander in I Spy where it was chambered in 9MM due to blanks being available for shooting scenes. I think a lot shows now use soft air pistols that cycle the slide as they are more reliable than real pistols firing blanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kokopelli Posted November 4, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 4, 2009 I'm going to try to get what I need for screen grabs so I can post more with examples of what I'm talking about with each gun.Real quick- Seasons 3 and 4, if anyone can give me episodes with the back up gun being used in them offhand I'll watch it and report back on what it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kokopelli Posted November 9, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 9, 2009 I'm still working on screen grab software, but I've got a couple more issues with the 'Browning BDA' story...The Browning BDA's had a nicer finish on the slide- the flats were polished blued with the rest of the slide matte. I can't seem to pick out a scene with the gun that exhibits the polished sides, maybe I'm just not seeing it? Is it possible it IS an early 'Sig' rollmarked P220 that Interarms imported? I know they were importing them as early as '82 as well as Hawes.Does anyone know why the Browning BDA has been reported s the Pilot episode gun? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kokopelli Posted December 8, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 8, 2009 It could be they also used a Browning BDA in 9MM in addition to .45ACP as 9MM Blanks were more available back then for shooting scenes. The same was true of Bill Cosby's Commander in I Spy where it was chambered in 9MM due to blanks being available for shooting scenes. I think a lot shows now use soft air pistols that cycle the slide as they are more reliable than real pistols firing blanks.I believe now this may be the case. The .45 model has a 'squared' muzzle end' date=' whereas the 9mm and 30 lugar calibered BDA's had a slide that had an arching taper towards the muzzle. After numerous viewings, I can clearly see that the gun IS a .45. [b']New question- The pilot episode shows what appears to be a Detonics Pocket 9 in Crockett's waistband as a back up gun. Detonics literature states the Pocket 9 was made for two years only, in 1985 and 1986. If this is true -(which it can't be if his gun is in fact the Pocket 9), did they have a prototype P9 to use for the pilot? Can anyone identify the shoulder holster?here's the Pocket 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kokopelli Posted May 10, 2010 Author Report Share Posted May 10, 2010 ...back with the pilot episode gun question- After lots of internet research I'm more confused than ever! So the Brownings had high polished flats on the sides, the Sigs didn't. The gun couldn't be a Browning BDA in 9mm or 30 lugar, as they had a rounded off slide front at the muzzle- Crockett's is clearly squared off.Sigs were imported as early as '83, and the Sig 9mm HAD a squared off end!! The Sigs also had a 38 Super with the squared off end!Both the Sig and 'Brownings' had the same full checkered plastic grips and lanyard loop off the side thus making it even more difficult to make a decision!Does anyone have ANY info on the gun used in the pilot episode other than what Wiki and the 'internet' sites say? - which is "....Crockett used a Browning BDA in 45 acp"? Is there any proof to this from research, set notes, property master's notes, etc...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavinsky Posted May 10, 2010 Report Share Posted May 10, 2010 Afraid I dont know but according to this there was 2 companies that imported them Hawks and Browning, and hawks was the one that imported it as the 220http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=6265912Also just taking an educated guess but I think Crockett was ment to favor 9mm in the pilot since he also had a detonics 9mm backup in the small of his back in one of the shotshttp://www.imfdb.org/images/4/44/MV-DP9-1.jpghttp://www.imfdb.org/index.php/Image:Detonicspocket9ld0.jpg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kokopelli Posted May 11, 2010 Author Report Share Posted May 11, 2010 ...oh, its worse than you think- there were FOUR companies importing them- Hawes, Interarms and the Brownings' own BDA's. There also was a company 'RPS' that was bringing them in- :sick:It just blows me away that there are SO many tiny little details known about the show that the PILOT episode wouldn't be very well documented! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavinsky Posted May 12, 2010 Report Share Posted May 12, 2010 Indeed I'm still wondering if I had found thee daytona used in the pilot there, it was virtually identical to the one used.http://www.finecars.cc/en/detail/car/14122/index.html?no_cache=1&tx_anamerashowroom_pi1%5Bpointer%5D=1-2&tx_anamerashowroom_pi1%5BRET%5D=63&tx_anamerashowroom_pi1%5BMODE%5D=make Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators timm525 Posted May 12, 2010 Administrators Report Share Posted May 12, 2010 Beats me but that is one beautiful looking car. Looks like it has been kept in immaculate condition.Thanks for sharing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kokopelli Posted May 18, 2010 Author Report Share Posted May 18, 2010 Allright- I have some good news! I got some help from members on the Bren Ten site...according to the book "Bren-Ten, the Heir Apparent" in a chapter that talks about the Bren's history in Vice, there is a mention of the pilot episode where a SIG P220 blank firing .45 was used. I also got some confirmation on importing from the Sig site. This answers a LOT of the questions I had concerning the pistols appearance, as it pertains to the 'BDA' myth!! The SIG's that were imported AS Sigs (not brought in under 'Browning's re-badge) had:1. No high polished blue flats on the sides of the slide, as the BDA has,2. No serial number running along the front of the grip, as the BDA has3. Also had the grip 'heel' Euro style mag release and lanyard loop the same as the BDA,4. Old style checkered gripsAlso, with it being a blank firing only gun, this can explain the appearance of a smaller looking barrel opening as we see it. If anyone can do screen grabs, the references for above are:1. Crockett in car w/ Leon- see above post, also when C&T search the room,2., 3., 4. both -When Crockett is in bed w/ Billy, and when he's talking to Gina in the bathroom- good view of the grip- no serial number running down it and obvious heel release and lanyard loop.I just knew there had to be something to this! The gun just did not 'look' right to me to be the BDA. I assume that because it had the 'euro' mag release and lanyard loop everyone thought it was the BDA. But with a closer look, we can see the BDA details just aren't there- details that Browning purposely put in place to distinguish it from the regular p220. Plus verification that Sigs were in fact imported into the US as just that-plain ol' Sigs, I am confident that I have identified the gun in Brother's Keeper as a Sig Systems P220 .45 acp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavinsky Posted May 18, 2010 Report Share Posted May 18, 2010 Bren-Ten, the Heir Apparent? did you find a place to buy it from or an ebook? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kokopelli Posted May 18, 2010 Author Report Share Posted May 18, 2010 email Bruce at borlow@tds.net...tell him Kokopelli from the forum sent you- $28.00 shipped paid via paypal!. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary1911A1 Posted May 19, 2010 Report Share Posted May 19, 2010 It's a good read and I enjoyed every page. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wax0r Posted September 12, 2011 Report Share Posted September 12, 2011 Beautiful gunsHello, I'm looking to buy one p220 from 80's and I found this thread. Which gun is in the middle? It's look like an Italian tanfoglio stock, made with the cz75 design.Let me know please.Alessio Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary1911A1 Posted September 12, 2011 Report Share Posted September 12, 2011 Hello' date=' I'm looking to buy one p220 from 80's and I found this thread. Which gun is in the middle? It's look like an Italian tanfoglio stock, made with the cz75 design.Let me know please.Alessio[/quote'] You are correct. The one in the middle is a Tanfoglio EAA Stock Witness in 10MM. Some might call it a poor man's Bren Ten as it's about 1/2 the cost of a used Bren Ten. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wax0r Posted September 12, 2011 Report Share Posted September 12, 2011 TanfoglioThanks for the reply, I have the same tanfoglio stock II in 9mm, in Italy is the best gun for category production in ipsc!Now I'm interested to a p220 from the 80's, but I need to check if is the same as Crockett used in the pilot.Ale Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavinsky Posted September 12, 2011 Report Share Posted September 12, 2011 The easiest way to tell if its one like Crockett's is if its got a heel magazine release on it like his, the first run of the 220's like his are the only ones to my knowledge that have the european mag releasehttp://www.miamiviceonline.com/vbglossar.php?do=showentry&id=2139Pretty much just like this one:http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=250658918and also the Checkering on the grips which are exclusive to the first ones they made, and I did actually have a chance to pick a cop trade in one up for cheap but I'm more of a fan of the stainless guns he used as it just seemed to plain jane for my tastes like a glock but not a bad feeling gun though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wax0r Posted September 12, 2011 Report Share Posted September 12, 2011 GunsIn Italy this 220 is only done in .45 hp, next week I'll go check if it's the first model, or a newer version!Alessio Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavinsky Posted September 15, 2011 Report Share Posted September 15, 2011 Thought this might help you waxor, my go to gun guy on youtube just posted a video about the 220 today, albeit a new one with a beaver tail, rail and american mag release One thing to note though is that he's a big fan of striker fired pistols because of their constant one weight trigger pull vs a traditional DA/SA trigger pull like on the sig.FYI I'm more the other way around as a double action only lover nowadays with revolvers like the one Tubb's carried which I actually have (the 49 bodguard) and because you dont have to worry about a magazine or a slide faling from wear and tear, the great exceptions to that rule are any old walther pre 1990, the bren and the smith and wesson 645/4506 and one other thing to note about hickok45 is that he's got a dry sense of humor so if something sounds a little off thats why, he's making a joke and I have to admit sometimes I have a hard time myself differentiating between a joke and a statmentanyways personally I found that he is far better than the pompusness that is nutinfancy who should be renamed everything fancy and stupid about gun owners (IE the caliber war BS with his the .380 sucks video and being overly obssessed with weight of the gun and completely ignoring the fact that a good holster can easily negate that issue)http://www.youtube.com/user/nutnfancynow if you do like some of the stuff he does sooch00 is a good alternative to him, he's basically nutin minus the pompusness and the stupidity:http://www.youtube.com/user/sootch00although I go with hickok45 because I just want to see the guns shoot, not have someone go on and on about their uses along with other gear.and if the gun your going with is one with a euro mag release I do have a technique that should work pretty well with it that I used on the walther P38 when I started shooting a number of years ago Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wax0r Posted October 4, 2011 Report Share Posted October 4, 2011 Just bought one!I bought the p220 with euro mag release and the sights are as the same as that used by crockett's gun.I'm very happy, and tomorrow I will try that at the range.See youAle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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