Episode 23: Prodigal Son

[Tom]

vor 26 Minuten schrieb king77:

My 2 cents.

Next to the windows is a door with a security chain. So for sure whatever room C&T are in, it exists to the outside either ground floor or elevated walkway if on the 2nd floor and up. Balcony's usually have glass sliders, not doors with security chains. 

There appears to be a PTAC (Packaged Thermal Air Conditioner) below the window with cord. It would require venting to the exterior and I do not see any vents on the exterior of the Jockey Club building.

To me it looks like a small single bed motel room. Possibly with the bed and dresser swapped as the bed usually doesn't block the entry door, plus Tubbs appears to be sitting on a small bedside table as there are some sort of fake plant/flowers behind him. 

 

 

There is another scene when Crockett leaves at the end that shows that this is a spacy 2/3 room apartment thus no garden variety motel room.

motels also not have such nice interiors with huge mirrors and usually no such windows, let alone there is no other location in that ep that has something similar around. And no way that they travelled to another location just to film 2 scenes of several seconds each. We have gathered lots of experience with their filming logistics and they never used extra locations just for such small interior snippets.

The door simply is a hint that this apartment had maybe a balcony but there are balconies on that building too. And the details of AC vents is no KO criteria 35 years after filming as the whole building has been renovated several times externally and internally ever since.

[king77]

52 minutes ago, Tom said:

There is another scene when Crockett leaves at the end that shows that this is a spacy 2/3 room apartment thus no garden variety motel room.

motels also not have such nice interiors with huge mirrors and usually no such windows, let alone there is no other location in that ep that has something similar around. And no way that they travelled to another location just to film 2 scenes of several seconds each. We have gathered lots of experience with their filming logistics and they never used extra locations just for such small interior snippets.

The door simply is a hint that this apartment had maybe a balcony but there are balconies on that building too. And the details of AC vents is no KO criteria 35 years after filming as the whole building has been renovated several times externally and internally ever since.

10-4

But I believe not a single apartment/condo builder on the planet would design a balcony entrance from a bedroom that overlooks the bay using windows and a door and not sliders to let in all that natural light.

Also the more I stare at the image, the more it feels like a stage build as the carpet seems like it's not tight against the wall and there appears to be wall trim and the light behind the window looks like it's stage lighting.

Like Smugglers Blue's we will agree to disagree until more evidence is found, cheers.

 

[Tom]

vor 18 Minuten schrieb king77:

10-4

But I believe not a single apartment/condo builder on the planet would design a balcony entrance from a bedroom that overlooks the bay using windows and a door and not sliders to let in all that natural light.

Also the more I stare at the image, the more it feels like a stage build as the carpet seems like it's not tight against the wall and there appears to be wall trim and the light behind the window looks like it's stage lighting.

Like Smugglers Blue's we will agree to disagree until more evidence is found, cheers.

 

Studio might be the best alternative but what speaks against studio is the looks. No VICE studio bilder would make extra effort to build a door next to the window but use very ordinary drawers in the room but with huge mirrors. They built, especially in season2, sets in a very Special Visual and costly way. Cannot describe that vibe like Crockett in Shadow in the dark but that is too normal and not similar to any other set of that time.

 

Edited June 15, 2021 by Tom

[airtommy]

As Crockett opens the door, you can see a brown wood piece on the wall of  the hallway.  I don't know what it's called, like a banister or railing.

Here's the carpet seemingly not reaching the wall:

[Tom]

vor 8 Stunden schrieb airtommy:

As Crockett opens the door, you can see a brown wood piece on the wall of  the hallway.  I don't know what it's called, like a banister or railing.

Here's the carpet seemingly not reaching the wall:

Both speaks against studio set.

[king77]

20 hours ago, Tom said:

Studio might be the best alternative but what speaks against studio is the looks. No VICE studio bilder would make extra effort to build a door next to the window but use very ordinary drawers in the room but with huge mirrors. They built, especially in season2, sets in a very Special Visual and costly way. Cannot describe that vibe like Crockett in Shadow in the dark but that is too normal and not similar to any other set of that time.

 

When I mentioned stage lighting I meant using screens over the windows and back lighting them. As shots usually take some time and the ever changing positioning of the sun would produce different shadows as they filmed.

[Tom]

Am 16.6.2021 um 15:48 schrieb king77:

When I mentioned stage lighting I meant using screens over the windows and back lighting them. As shots usually take some time and the ever changing positioning of the sun would produce different shadows as they filmed.

I agree that the "dead" looking windows are normally a sign for studio. But the sets in season 2 looked completely different and were quite sophisticated in colors and props. Just take Margaret´s apartment in the same episode as comparison and you´ll know what I mean. No way this is a set given the looks. 

[king77]

53 minutes ago, Tom said:

I agree that the "dead" looking windows are normally a sign for studio. But the sets in season 2 looked completely different and were quite sophisticated in colors and props. Just take Margaret´s apartment in the same episode as comparison and you´ll know what I mean. No way this is a set given the looks. 

Reached out to a buddy who works at Raleigh Studios in Hollywood, his opinion.

"Initial take is a small old motel/hotel, however the door exiting to the hallway reminds me of some spaces we had here before the big remodel, they are at other sound stages. We had areas where the top billed talent would dress and wait for their call. The door to the outside would be where they would enter. Back in the the old days some would exit to the street so their drivers could drop them off along with "Guests". However on the last big remodel in the late 90's we eliminated the outer exit doors and windows for security reasons.

The full length mirror so they could practice lines and looks. Some have pass thru some don't. For example if two actors had a scene together they put them in adjoining dressing rooms and they could practice before their call. They were pretty sparse as well"

 

 

 

 

[Tom]

Am 17.6.2021 um 18:32 schrieb king77:

Reached out to a buddy who works at Raleigh Studios in Hollywood, his opinion.

"Initial take is a small old motel/hotel, however the door exiting to the hallway reminds me of some spaces we had here before the big remodel, they are at other sound stages. We had areas where the top billed talent would dress and wait for their call. The door to the outside would be where they would enter. Back in the the old days some would exit to the street so their drivers could drop them off along with "Guests". However on the last big remodel in the late 90's we eliminated the outer exit doors and windows for security reasons.

The full length mirror so they could practice lines and looks. Some have pass thru some don't. For example if two actors had a scene together they put them in adjoining dressing rooms and they could practice before their call. They were pretty sparse as well"

I know what general practice in the industry is for sets. But this was MV season 2. They NEVER built sets at that time with eye on practicability or re-use. They just spent a lot of money on one time sets that looked cool and would never have been able to find in reality. And this room (style, look, props, execution) does not look remotely similar to any other set in the series, let alone season 2. 

Everyone is entitled to his own opinion here, I just have spent too much time on VICE locations over the years and have the same vibe sense as Crockett in "Shadow in the dark" 

 

[airtommy]

That artwork on the wall seems familiar.  Is this a prop used in another episode?

[Dadrian]

5 hours ago, airtommy said:

That artwork on the wall seems familiar.  Is this a prop used in another episode?

Maybe at Vanessa’s shop at the staircase in “The Great McCarthy”?

[Tom]

vor 15 Stunden schrieb Dadrian:

Maybe at Vanessa’s shop at the staircase in “The Great McCarthy”?

Similar, but not the same.

 

[Dadrian]

47 minutes ago, Tom said:

Similar, but not the same.

Probably the same “artist” then. 

[king77]

Tom,

Check out the windows on this place.

https://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/5225-Collins-Ave-Apt-802_Miami-Beach_FL_33140_M62081-00965#photo26

 

[Tom]

vor 3 Stunden schrieb king77:

Tom,

Check out the windows on this place.

https://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/5225-Collins-Ave-Apt-802_Miami-Beach_FL_33140_M62081-00965#photo26

 

I would say that with high probability you cracked the case! Congrats! This is/was the Alexander Hotel where the production offices of the series were located beginning with season 2 (before it was at the Konover Hotel). They sometimes used the Alexander for filming as well, e.g. in Back in the world (Stone´s hotel) or in Definitely Miami (Ted Nugent looks from balcony). Thus it makes sense that they shot the NYC hotel scenes in a room in the hotel where the production offices were. I added two of the most distinctive pics of the windows here for everyone easier to watch than the link. I also added a picture of an apartment that has the same full size door directly next to the window and the big mirrors like seen in the episode, just reversed.

Apart from the production office fact the scene´s look is rather a real life location than a second season set, as pointed out by me earlier. And, funny enough, even the gray carpet and the gray furniture of the apartment on the picture matches well with the scene, even 35 years after.

Edited June 30, 2021 by Tom

[Tom]

With finding the hotel room, we only have one unknown location in this episode left: the street when Crockett leaves the hotel at the end. I encircled the biggest clues below. The three arches on the old building on the other side, the very long one way street that excludes all areas near Central Park and the intersection very close to the (alleged) hotel entrance.

[OCBman]

11 hours ago, Tom said:

With finding the hotel room, we only have one unknown location in this episode left: the street when Crockett leaves the hotel at the end. I encircled the biggest clues below. The three arches on the old building on the other side, the very long one way street that excludes all areas near Central Park and the intersection very close to the (alleged) hotel entrance.

Wow. This is fantastic. Such great stuff.

[king77]

16 hours ago, Tom said:

I would say that with high probability you cracked the case! Congrats! This is/was the Alexander Hotel where the production offices of the series were located beginning with season 2 (before it was at the Konover Hotel). They sometimes used the Alexander for filming as well, e.g. in Back in the world (Stone´s hotel) or in Definitely Miami (Ted Nugent looks from balcony). Thus it makes sense that they shot the NYC hotel scenes in a room in the hotel where the production offices were. I added two of the most distinctive pics of the windows here for everyone easier to watch than the link. I also added a picture of an apartment that has the same full size door directly next to the window and the big mirrors like seen in the episode, just reversed.

Apart from the production office fact the scene´s look is rather a real life location than a second season set, as pointed out by me earlier. And, funny enough, even the gray carpet and the gray furniture of the apartment on the picture matches well with the scene, even 35 years after.

If it is the spot, I had some help. My studio buddy told me to check the studio to see of they had talent rooms or maybe the location production office for off campus shows as it's usually a hotel.

[Tom]

vor einer Stunde schrieb king77:

If it is the spot, I had some help. My studio buddy told me to check the studio to see of they had talent rooms or maybe the location production office for off campus shows as it's usually a hotel.

This is the spot for sure. The window pattern matches, as does the door next to it (reversed on the picture, but there are other apartments with the correct location of the door left of the window). These two matches together with the similarity of the carpet, the furniture and the mirrors (35 years after but still it shows that there were that kind of apartments there).

I am kicking myself that I did not think about the production office after I was sure that it was a real location and no studio set. I am also convinced that they "staged" the dead window look (lightning, no outside visuals like clouds or sun) there, maybe by placing some shades or reflectors outside on the balcony or otherwise.

[Tom]

vor 19 Stunden schrieb Tom:

With finding the hotel room, we only have one unknown location in this episode left: the street when Crockett leaves the hotel at the end. I encircled the biggest clues below. The three arches on the old building on the other side, the very long one way street that excludes all areas near Central Park and the intersection very close to the (alleged) hotel entrance.

Just to narrow down the search:

• the street is a one way street that runs from west to east (proven by the shadow of the lady walking in the sun falling to the right)
• what seems to be an intersection with another street on the second picture is not, but just an alley with parking (indicated by the absence of any curb and the fact that another car parked in a 90 degree angle would block the intersection)
• The absence of any (modern) highrises in the background, the style of (old) buildings, the width of the street, the curb and the distant background of the origin of the one way street indicates that it is NOT in lower Manhattan but rather in mid Manhattan looking towards northwest. In that eoisode they only filmed up to Central Park. 
• Upper Manhattan can be excluded most likely, as we would see Central Park in the background (the area west of Central Park is not wide enough for the distant background we see)
• This is a "convenience location", i.e. it is too short and too insignificant to make a long travel within NYC for it and therefore close to other locations used in the episode where the crew can quickly relocate and film.

[daytona365]

 

@Tom: Ok, this was filmed at 18-22 W 18th Street New York

Sonny is exiting through this door:

There used to be a street corner or an alley which apparently has been replaced with a new building since, however there is no doubt that this has been the place.

as Sonny enters the cab, we see the Siegel-Cooper building in the background

As a funny coincidence, there's a cab approaching in Streetview as well

the cab pulls away and passes by a brick wall with three warehouse windows

Edited July 3, 2021 by daytona365

[Tom]

vor 19 Minuten schrieb daytona365:

 

@Tom: Ok, this was filmed at 18-22 W 18th Street New York

Sonny is exiting through this door:

There jused to be a street corner or an alley which apparently has been replaced with a new building since, however there is no doubt that this has been the place.

as Sonny enters the cab, we see the Siegel-Cooper building in the background

the cab pulls off and passes by a brick wall with three warehouse windows

You are some crazy crazy dude, brother! How the heck did you find that spot that fast?

Unbelievable work. Mind telling us how you did it? 

P.S. if you are THAT fast, what takes you so long with the Ballard house in THATH? 

Edited July 2, 2021 by Tom

[daytona365]

18 minutes ago, Tom said:

You are some crazy crazy dude, brother! How the heck did you find that spot that fast?

Unbelievable work. Mind telling us how you did it? 

Well I just searched pics for triple arched entrances in NYC, which quickly lead me to the Siegel-Cooper building. That has a fitting entrance on the front however is too narrow on that side, so I had almost already dismissed it when I suddenly cought a glimpse of this pic, which shows that there is a basically identical side entrance.

So all in all it was like a 15 minute find.

Edited July 2, 2021 by daytona365

[Tom]

vor 1 Minute schrieb daytona365:

Well I just searched pics for triple arched entrances in NYC, which lead me to the Siegel-Cooper building. That has a fitting entrance on the front however is too narrow on that side, so I had almost already dismissed it when I suddenly cought a glimpse of this pic:

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_3k2ilY9vkCY/TG5qX2DcnPI/AAAAAAAABdE/wEgpTaMMx7Y/s1600/siegel-cooper+print.jpg

So all in all it was like a 15 minute find.

 

 

I did the same search on Google and came up with no fitting picture. Please try the same with the Ballard house!

[daytona365]

2 hours ago, Tom said:

P.S. if you are THAT fast, what takes you so long with the Ballard house in THATH? 

I'ma find that damn shack, and if it's the last thing I ever do in this life...