St Vitus in No Exit


airtommy

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In No Exit, when they are planting bugs in Tony Amato's house and Crockett says "I think we'll put the eye on this guy from the Bay", is he looking directly at the St. Vitus Dance already out there in position? I'm no boat expert, they all look alike to me, so what do you guys think?

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  • 2 weeks later...

I love that episode and two weeks ago while watching it I wondered the same thing. Looked real familiar and I'd say YES, yet I didn't want to get too into it. It's Vice and it's great....Mike

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Interesting.I just figured that he looked out the window and saw boats out there, so why not bring his boat to that location. It would blend in.How would they have gotten to shore if they left the sail boat there?Swim to shore?I can't imagine Crockett towing his Stinger with his Sail boat just a few yards off shore, only to drive it to the shore, get out, and go to the house.Seems to me they had transportation in cars or vans (zito doing yard work), and would be a whole lot easier driving there than the above mentioned.

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Interesting.I just figured that he looked out the window and saw boats out there' date=' so why not bring his boat to that location. It would blend in.How would they have gotten to shore if they left the sail boat there?Swim to shore?I can't imagine Crockett towing his Stinger with his Sail boat just a few yards off shore, only to drive it to the shore, get out, and go to the house.Seems to me they had transportation in cars or vans (zito doing yard work), and would be a whole lot easier driving there than the above mentioned.[/quote']I agree with all of that. The boat being out there is basically a blooper, as it doesn't fit in with the plot. The film crew had already parked the boat out there before they filmed this scene. But I'd like to hear someone who knows these boats confirm.
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Has anyone checked the position of the boats on the water when he was looking out the window at them, and then the position of the boats from the view from the boat looking at the home?

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Has anyone checked the position of the boats on the water when he was looking out the window at them' date=' and then the position of the boats from the view from the boat looking at the home?[/quote']I was always fixated on Sonny:happy: What boats:)
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Interesting.I just figured that he looked out the window and saw boats out there' date=' so why not bring his boat to that location. It would blend in.How would they have gotten to shore if they left the sail boat there?Swim to shore?I can't imagine Crockett towing his Stinger with his Sail boat just a few yards off shore, only to drive it to the shore, get out, and go to the house.Seems to me they had transportation in cars or vans (zito doing yard work), and would be a whole lot easier driving there than the above mentioned.[/quote']Well, I am watching the episode, and it does seem to appear that it is his boat. The color, and the position of the sails in the down position seem to suggest it, as does the position of the boat.Can't figure it though, as they are in the landscapeing van when Tony leaves.Then again, they are all wearing the same clothes when in the house, and when they are in the boat, that also suggests not much time passed, as it's the same day.
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I was always fixated on Sonny:happy: What boats:)

That would be so cool to have one or all of those boats in SAN FRANCISCO BAY!! :thumbsup:
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I do want to once again let members know that two federal agents opened fire first, BEFORE one of Tony's men returns fire at the end of NO EXIT.They I.D. themselves as federal agents, tell them they are surrounded, and shoot first.Is this justified?Tony's gunman was holding an automatic machine gun, and it was pointed in the direction of the agents, but he didn't fire first. He kind of raised the gun, but didn't rise the weapon in a threatening manner.JURRASIC NARC should chime in on this one.

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It is the "IMMINENCE OF DANGER" that would give them the right to fire first.If a guy pointed a gun at me I would not hesitate to fire first.Survival instinct...screw protocalThey identified themselves as officers and the guy raised his weapon. It's a no brainer...self defense for sure!

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Bang, Bang. "Freeze police, stop or I'll shoot!""You shot me!""It was a warning shot and it hit you.":clap: Alec Baldwin in Miami Blues, pretending to be a cop during the robbery at the café. :clap:

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Anyone else wish to chime in on this topic about Crockett's boat (St.vitus) already in the harbor in NO EXIT?

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I do want to once again let members know that two federal agents opened fire first' date=' BEFORE one of Tony's men returns fire at the end of NO EXIT.They I.D. themselves as federal agents, tell them they are surrounded, and shoot first.Is this justified?Tony's gunman was holding an automatic machine gun, and it was pointed in the direction of the agents, but he didn't fire first. He kind of raised the gun, but didn't rise the weapon in a threatening manner.JURRASIC NARC should chime in on this one.[/quote']The Federal Standard, and the Georgia Law, is that an officer may use deadly force to defend himself or someone else if he/she is in reasonable fear of death or serious injury to themselves or an innocent third party. There is no requirement to wait until the other party shoots first. That is an urban legend which originated with TV shows like The FBI and Dragnet. Pointing the gun at the police is enough.When I was not assigned to a Drug Enforcement Office, I worked General Investigations. One of our responsiblities was the investigation of Officer Involved Shootings in Georgia. I worked several dozen of those during my time with the GBI. One of my concerns was the belief by officers that they had to wait for the bad guy to shoot first. Sometimes that resulted in a shot police officer.I will take a look at the episode and see if I have any or thoughts (I can't remember any specifics about that scene-I remember the stuff about the St Vitas, and the ending-but not the scene you asked about).JN
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Thanks Jurrasic. I'd love your imput.I think the FBI fires the first three shots (looking in step by step slo mo).

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Thanks Jurrasic. I'd love your imput.I think the FBI fires the first three shots (looking in step by step slo mo).
OBSERVATIONS ON NO EXITThe treatment of the OCB agents of surveillance' date=' waiting for the deal to occur is spot on. An their attitudes towards the ATF (known in those days as the American Turkey F**kers) is classic. Particularly Crocketts view on their case managment skills. At this time drugs were becoming the source of major PR events, and every Federal Agency was trying to get a piece of the action. The Fed UC agent getting bumped was right on target as well. I ended up going undercover in a gun buy in South Georgia when the ATF UC agent showed up with a Boston accent! You always end up working through the problems, just like happened in this episode. And I am still friends with some of the ATF agents I have worked with over the years.It is much harder to get a court order (even back in the day) to tap a phone or bug a house. We rarely did phone taps, and I cannot recall a single instance of placing numerous bugs inside a house. This was usually a plotting device to move the story ahead. Same thing as using Noogie or Izzie on a continuing basis. I never knew an informant who knew about EVERYTHING going on in a place as big as Miami. You normally had dozens of informants who moved in different circles and provided information on different groups. But for the sake of TV it is simpler to have one continuing character to have to deal with.When DJ runs off the would-be hitman by simply opening his badge case, held low, and telling him to "Beat it", that is how we would deal with potential interlopers when doing operations. You didn't want to attract attention, but you wanted them to get the message.The take-down was certainly within reason, as the character Gentle had already sprayed down the street with a machine gun. Lighting him up was a public service, and he had the weapon pointing in a threatening manner. He was paid for.The Tony Amato character is much younger than the types that I met. Most were ex-military and wouldn't be caught dead in designer clothes. But I ran into a number of shady individuals who worked for the CIA under contract, and were also involved in the gun and drug trade. I trully do not know to this day how much they did for the government, how much was for their own pockets, and how much was a case of "do the job and don't tell me the details". And Amato's release after his arrest for a serious felony is not a fantasy, those things did happen. (Take a look at [b']Hougan, Jim. Spooks: The Haunting of America -- The Private Use of Secret Agents. New York: Bantam Books, 1979. 481 pages. Pay particular attention to Mitchell Livingston Werbell III).To me, this is one of the better season one episodes--for what my two cents are worth.
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More on NO EXIT PlotWhile I can't vouch for all of this, much of this information I know to be true. I copied this from http://www.mail-archive.com/ctrl@listserv.aol.com/msg29766.htmlGUNS FOR DRUGSIn August 1976 Lucien Conein's chum Mitch WerBell III (whose B.R. Fox Company had shared a Washington office with Conein's DEA Special Operations Group) was brought before a Miami federal court on charges of conspiracy to smuggle 50,000 pounds of marijuana a month from Colombia to the United States. He and several coconspirators had allegedly hatched the plot in the summer of 1975, just when Alberto Sicilia-Falcon was arrested in Mexico. Multi-ton marijuana loads were to have been flown from Colombia to an isolated ranch in the Florida Everglades near the cowtown of Okeechobee.[1]The star prosecution witness was one of WerBell's close associates, theconvicted cocaine and marijuana smuggler Kenneth Gordon Burnstine. However, weeks before his scheduled court appearance he died in the mysterious crash of his P-51 Mustang at an air show. Most of the vital tape recordings and films of meetings between Burnstine, WerBell, and other defendants were no longer producible in court.WerBell's defense was that his role in the plot had been as an undercoveragent for Conein. Both Conein and Egil Krogh were to have been witnesses onhis behalf. But Krogh testified that he didn't know WerBell had worked forthe DEA's Special Operations Branch, and Conein wasn't called at all. Anotherdefense witness was the soldier of fortune Gerry Hemming, whose private army of Cuban exiles and Americans, the International Penetration Force, appears, from Hemming's description of its missions, to have played an active role in Operation 40. During the trial, Hemming would stay late into the night in WerBell's hotel room.[2]WerBell was found innocent and released, just like the Thai opium smuggler/CIA agent Puttaporn Khramkhruan before him in 1973. He went home to Georgia to pursue his weapons business and law enforcement training camp. According to writer Hank Messick, in 1978 he was involved in far Right politics with the likes of Major General John K. Singlaub (who had been relieved of hiscommand in Korea after outspoken criticism of President Carter) and membersof the American Security Council[3]— the key U.S. link to the far Right'sinternational umbrella organization, the World Anti-Communist League (WACL).As reported recently in the New York Times, the beneficiaries of hisantiterrorist training have included members of the far Right, anti-SemiticU.S. Labor Party.[4]WerBell owns eight companies, most of them dealing in firearms used by lawenforcement and intelligence units. One of the firms, Studies in theOperational Negation of Insurgents and Counter-Subversion (SIONICS),specializes in the production- of M10 and M11 silenced machine pistols. Thelatter two weapons, designed by Gordon Ingram and WerBell, are about theultimate weapons for terror and extermination. Their sales agent wasWerBell's Military Armament Corporation.[5]Together with the anti-Castro Cuban arms dealers Anselmo Alliegro and themercenary Gerry Hemming, WerBell founded the Parabellum Corporation in 1971 in Miami.[6] Parabellum. was licensed to sell arms in Latin America. It was also the firm from which Watergate burglar Frank Sturgis planned to obtain weapons for Cuban exiles who were going to (but eventually did not) disrupt the 1972 Miami conventions.[7]In 1974 WerBell -according to a motion filed by his own lawyer when WerBell,his son and his company Defense Services, Inc. were charged with illicitweapons sales-was involved in a "conspiracy among the CIA, Robert Vesco, andvarious corporations to finance clandestine guerilla activities in LatinAmerica."[8] Vesco wanted to purchase WerBell's stock of 2000 silenced M10machine pistols. When WerBell failed to secure an export license, he deviseda plan to smuggle the weapons to Vesco. The two later negotiated theconstruction of a factory in Costa Rica which would be licensed to fabricatethe pistols.[9]Intriguingly, in that same period someone was negotiating with a U.S. firmfor rights to fabricate, in Mexico, fully automatic weapons for clandestineguerilla actions in Latin America. That someone was Mexico's Cuban exileheroin czar, Alberto Sicilia-Falcon,[10] and among the weapons he wasinspecting was the Ingram M10, 9 mm Parabellum.[11]Although the M10 and M11 could be acquired legally only with the special permission of U.S. officials, large numbers of silenced M10s turned up in thehands of European fascist terrorists in 1976-77. when Pierluigi Concutelli, aleader of the Italian terrorist group Ordine Nuovo, was arrested in Rome inFebruary 1977, police found in his apartment the silenced M10 which he hadused to murder the Rome magistrate Vittorio Occorsio. [12] 0ccorsio had beenshot down on the streets of Rome in July 1976 after announcing he wouldexpose the close collaboration between Fascist terror groups and theMafia.[13]However, it was among Spanish terrorists in particular that WerBell's machinepistols appeared in quantity.[14] Most notably, a sizable consignment ofM10s, sent to Spain under license from U.S. authorities, had been purchasedby Spanish intelligence agency DGS,[15] which has allegedly coordinated theactions of Fascist terrorists.[16]The fugitive IOS billionaire Vesco employed a large contingent of Cubanexiles in his Costa Rica sanctuary.[17] Moreover, his weapons negotiationscoincided with the efforts of the fanatic anti--Castro Cuban leader OrlandoBosch to assemble Cuban exile groups into an army of terror, CORU, that wouldlater carry out assassina-tions and other dirty work for several LatinAmerican regimes. During Bosch's 1974-75 drive, a wave of murder struckMiami's Cuban exile haven. Most victims had been opposed to Bosch. With theobstacles to his plan removed, CORU was established in June 1976.[18]While Vesco and WerBell were hatching their weapons deal Bosch's base ofoperation just happened to be Vesco's kingdom of Costa Rica -and Mafia heroinboss Santo Trafficante, Jr. was also reportedly there between January 1974and the summer of 1975. Journalist Jim Hougan speculates in his book Spooksthat the three might have joined forces in a CIA conspiracy to escalateanti-Communist terror in Latin America.[19]In 1973 some of the details began to surface in a series of scandals linkingthese individuals. DEA undercover agent Frank Peroff charged Vesco withfinancing extensive heroin smuggling. For his initiative Peroff was firedsummarily and his life was threatened. Before the Senate InvestigationsSubcommittee could probe deeply the case was squelched through theintervention of the White House. The Oval Office had already helped Vesco- afriend of the Nixon family -in his run-in with the Securities and ExchangeCommission, which had sought his prosecution for the trail of swindle he hadleft in the world of international finance. Midway through the subcommitteeinvestigation of the heroin charges, the DEA announced the disappearance ofits Vesco file.[20]One year later, as the subcommittee investigated WerBell's weapons deal withVesco, it learned that Vesco had once employed government narcotics agents.In 1972 two bugging specialists from the BNDD flew from Los Angeles to NewJersey to sweep Vesco's home and office of surveillance devices. According tothe subcommittee, the sweeping tour had been arranged by an admitted friendof Vesco's who was also involved in supplying the fugitive with 2000 machineguns and helping him estalish a factory for the weapons in Costa Rica.[21]Guess who.That was not the last heard of Robert Vesco in connection with drugs. In thesummer of 1977 police uncovered the smuggling of large quantities of heroinand cocaine to Rhode Island. In one of the involved ships they discovered aledger in which it was written: "to Vesco/6 million/he picked up w. shrimper(Lansky)/'Curier' beat UP. "[22]Several things point to Vesco involvement in the long-standing partnership ofthe CIA, the Lansky/Trafficante syndicate and the Cuban exiles, in adrugs-for-gans-for-terror deal to step up armed suppression andanti-communism in Latin America. Journalist Hougan ventures that theconspirators might have used such go-betweens and couriers as the beautifulPatricia Richardson Martinson. According to her ex-husband, the former armyintelligence agent William Spector, Ms. Martinson had very closerelationships with almost everyone of importance in the drug business: YussefBeidas, the Lebanese founder and managing director of INTRA Bank, known asone of the major financiers of the heroin traffic; Paul Louis Weiller, aFrench financier similarly alleged to be behind the narcotics trade; EduardoBaroudi, a big-time heroin and gun smuggler suspected of having arrangedBeidas' mysterious death in Switzerland; Christian "Beau Serge" David; ConradBouchard, a top heroin trafficker heavily involved in Frank Peroffs Vescoheroin allegations; and Marcel Boucan, the skipper of the Caprice du Temps,which was seized in 1972 with 425 kilos of pure heroin.[23]Yet another likely intermediary among the apparent conspirators is the CIAcontract agent/arms dealer/art dealer Fernand Legros. In 1971 the CIA helpedget Vesco released from Saint-Antoine prison in Geneva, where he had beenarrested in the Bernard Cornfeld/Investors Overseas Service case. Legros wasin that same prison and spoke with Vesco. In January 1973 the two werereunited in Nassau.[24]Legros was seen in the company of Beidas in Geneva and Rio de Janeiro. Hisclosest friend was the convicted heroin trafficker Andre Labay, a closeassociate of Haiti's Duvalier dynasty. In Geneva Legros also met frequentlywith Evelyne Hirsch, the wife of the im-prisoned bankroller Andre Hirsch,whose South American heroin contact had been Christian David. Just as theU.S. put the screws on the Paraguayan government for the extradition ofAuguste Ricord, Legros was in Paraguay to close out a weapons deal withPresident Stroessner. Later, when Legros was placed in protective confinementin Brazil, newspapers speculated on his involvement in the David Mob'snarcotics deals.Recent years' investigations into the CIA/organized crime connection haveresulted in an epidemic of sudden deaths. In the CIA/DEA/ Vesco/ Syndicatescheme alone one can mention Kenny Burn-stine; WerBell associate ColonelRobert F. Bayard, who was shot down in an Atlanta parking lot in July1975;[25] another WerBell associate and codefendant in his marijuana case,John Nardi, who was shot in Cleveland;[26] and Vesco's security chief BobbyHall, who was shot to death in his Los Angeles home in July 1976.After the Senate Investigations Subcommittee's attempted probe into the Vescoheroin case was sabotaged from the highest quarters, committee chairman HenryJackson asked: "Did the U.S. govern-ment wish to keep Vesco out of thiscountry for some reason? Did he have some special information which he couldsupply to explain, inpart, the national nightmare we have just lived through?" One Senate investigator offered an answer: "More than any single person,Vesco has information which, if he talked, would make Watergate look like apicnic."[27]pps.181-187--[Notes]--1. T. Dunkin: "The Great Pot Plot," Soldier of Fortune, Vol. 2, No. 1, 1977.2. Ibid. According to an interview with Hemming published in the April 1976issue of Argosy magazine, Hemming settled in Florida after contacting theCIA to tell the agency all he knew about Castro's operations. There he foundedInterpen, which specialized in training anti-Castro Cuban exiles in specialcamps in Florida for long-range guerilla warfare against the Castro regime.Thus began a long and friendly advisory relationship not only with the CIA,but with the Mob, the Hughes empire and other wealthy and influentialAmericans as well. About the financing of Interpen, Hemming said, "There weredribs and drabs from people connected with organized crime, some from theright wing, and even from some quite liberal sources." Hemming also said: "In1961, some Mob people wanted my group to do a couple of jobs in Canada" —emphasis added — (against a ship with machinery for Cuba). . . "John RoselliI knew — but I didn't know who he was" . . . and about CIA/ Cuban terror inLatin America: "All this was a kind of Operation Phoenix for Latin America.There's a guy I know in Miami who worked on this more than once. Evidentlyhe's now had a falling out with some Cubans involved in narcotics. He's aclose friend of Bebe Rebozo, and Rebozo's interested in protecting him."Interpen reportedly disbanded in 1964.3. H. Messick: Of Grass and Snow (Prentice-Hall, 1979).4. New York Times, 7 October 1979. According to the magazine Soldier ofFortune (January 1980), WerBell established Cobray International, Inc., anantiterrorist school primarily for business executives, in Georgia in 1979.Its acting president, Col. Barney Cochran (USAF retired), served as "deputycommander for the Joint Unconventional Warfare Task Force EUROPE " in1970-74, and has also been chief of the Unconventional Warfare Branch andspecial assistant for counterinsurgency and special activities organizationof the Joint Chiefs of Staff. In the latter post he was responsible fordevelopment of "hardware" for Global Special Operations and unconventionalwarfare. The school's chief marksmanship instructor, Bert Waldron, holds therecord for sniper killings in Vietnam — 113.5. J. Hougan: Spooks (William Morrow, 1978).6. Ibid.; see also Gerry Hemming's interview in Argosy, April 1976.7. Argosy, op. cit.8. Documents of the U.S. District Court, Northern District of Georgia,Atlanta Division, in criminal case no. CR 74-471 A (cited in Hougan, op. cit.).9. Hougan, op. cit.10. "Die gefahrlichen Geschafte des Alberto Sicilia," Der Spiegel, No.20,1977.11. U.S. Congress, Senate, Committee on Government Operations, Illicit Traffic in Weapons and Drugs Across the United States-Mexican Border, Hearings,- 95th Cong., 1st Session (1977).12. Time, 2 February 1977; F. Laurent: L'Orchestre Noir (Stock, 1978).13. Time, op. cit.14. Cambio 16, 20 February 1977. 15. Laurent, op. cit.16. P. Chairoff: Dossier B ... comme Barbouzes (Alain Moreau, 1975); L.Gonzalez-Mata: Cygne (Grasset, 1976).17. Hougan, op. cit.18. According to the November 1977 issue of the Dominican Republic Task ForceNewsletter (cited in the January-February 1978 NACLA Report), the Bonao,Dominican Republic site of the CORU founding was a club for executives of theFalconbridge Nickel Company, which is controlled by the Keck family ofHouston, Texas. There is, however, some confusion about the date, which thesame source indicated was June 1975. Counterspy, Vol. 3, No. 2 listed thedate as June 1974. The summer 1976 date, however, is that used by BernardCassen in Le Monde Diplomatique of February 1977, by an anonymous contributorto the Nation of 19 March 1977, and by Blake Fleetwood in New Times of 13 May1977. Bosch, incidentally, like Vesco and WerBell, was associated withnarcotics, insofar as his daughter and son-in-law were arrested in 1977 forsmuggling cocaine.19. Hougan, op. cit. Vesco had his own contact in the Lansky Syndicate — DinoCellini, with whom he had met secretly at Rome's Fiumicino Airport in 1972.20. L.H. Whittemore: Peroff (Ballantine, 1975).21. Ibid.22. Messick, op. cit.; Boston Globe, 30 September 1977. 23. Hougan, op. cit.24. R. Peyrefitte: La Vie Extraordinaire de Fernand Legros (Albin Michel,1976).25. Dunkin, op. cit. 26. Messick, op. cit. 27. Whittemore, op. cit. Somewhereamong Robert Vesco's memorabilia floats the strange affair of the Brotherhoodof Love. Through it thousands of potential activists were stoned for years onLSD, and enormous profits from the sales of tablets were reinvested throughthe Investors Overseas Servicecontrolled Fiduciary Trust Company (DerSpiegel, No. 39, 1974). In the same connection, it is interesting to notethat when, in the fall of 1978, Italian police investigated the AmericanRonald Stark's close involvement with Italian terrorists, they discovered hehad been heavily involved in the Brotherhood of Love until 1971, and had runone of its LSD labs in California. In his terrorist period Stark was closelyin touch with the U.S. embassy in London, which had opened a letter to himwith "Dear Ron" (Panorama, 31 October 1978).

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Jurrasic, you are truly awesome.Your a wealth of information, and I truly appreciate you taking your personal time in putting in your two cents, and your years of personal experience.Your stories of your experiences included in your writings are not only very informative, but they are also very entertaining, and interesting.Thank you!!-COOP

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Jurrasic' date=' you are truly awesome.Your a wealth of information, and I truly appreciate you taking your personal time in putting in your two cents, and your years of personal experience.Your stories of your experiences included in your writings are not only very informative, but they are also very entertaining, and interesting.Thank you!!-COOP[/quote']Happy to throw some light on the subject. Thanks to you COOP for the kind words.JN
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  • 5 years later...

This is definitely the St Vitus Dance already in place behind Amato's house.  I have posted a screen capture from the episode and a photo of the Endeavor 42 from our Glossary for a direct comparison.  There is an exact match of the 7 windows, the railing or stripe on the side, and the masts.  I'm officially counting this as a blooper.

Picture-2.png  Picture-3.png

 

Edited by airtommy
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This is definitely the St Vitus Dance already in place behind Amato's house.  I have posted a screen capture from the episode and a photo of the Endeavor 42 from our Glossary for a direct comparison.  There is an exact match of the 7 windows, the railing or stripe on the side, and the masts.  I'm officially counting this as a blooper.

 

Picture_2.png  Picture_3.png

 

anyone here ever heard of dinghies? they actually could have gone to the house from the water and as such evaded climbing over a secured gate, fence, cameras whatsoever on the landside. Not necessarily a blooper.

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anyone here ever heard of dinghies? they actually could have gone to the house from the water and as such evaded climbing over a secured gate, fence, cameras whatsoever on the landside. Not necessarily a blooper.

 

They certainly could have arrived from the St Vitus Dance from an inflatable or other type of dinghy, however, none is shown.  I don't recall what is shown as they approach the Pink House.  Was it from the water side?  I don't believe there's a beach in front of it, rather a sea wall which would require a dock.  Did they ever show the St Vitus Dance towing a dinghy?  It doesn't have davits to carry one on the stern.

 

There is one absolute flub just after this scene, when the DEA agents board the boat.  The screen cap was shown in another thread, where the yellow shore power cord is plugged into the boat while it's at anchor in the bay.  Shore power cords are used to plug into 110v while in a slip or at a dock.  They are typically 30-50 feet long or more depending on boat size.  There is no way it would be used 100 yards out in the bay while at anchor.  I speculate it was plugged in for filming and attached to a generator on another boat for the film crew to run lights, etc...

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