OBAMACARE


COOPER&BURNETT

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Obamacare is here.Even though the Majority of people in every poll do not want this, it was passed.Caterpillar: Health care bill would cost it $100MDow Jones Newswires | Caterpillar Inc. said the health-care overhaul legislation being considered by the U.S. House would increase the company's health-care costs by more than $100 million in the first year alone.In a letter Thursday to House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) and House Republican Leader John Boehner of Ohio, Caterpillar urged lawmakers to vote against the plan "because of the substantial cost burdens it would place on our shareholders, employees and retirees."Caterpillar, the world's largest construction machinery manufacturer by sales, said it's particularly opposed to provisions in the bill that would expand Medicare taxes and mandate insurance coverage. The legislation would require nearly all companies to provide health insurance for their employees or face large fines.The Peoria-based company said these provisions would increase its insurance costs by at least 20 percent, or more than $100 million, just in the first year of the health-care overhaul program."We can ill-afford cost increases that place us at a disadvantage versus our global competitors," said the letter signed by Gregory Folley, vice president and chief human resources officer of Caterpillar. "We are disappointed that efforts at reform have not addressed the cost concerns we've raised throughout the year."Business executives have long complained that the options offered for covering 32 million uninsured Americans would result in higher insurance costs for those employers that already provide coverage. Opponents have stepped up their attacks in recent days as the House moves closer toward a vote on the Senate version of the health-care legislation.A letter Thursday to President Barack Obama and members of Congress signed by more than 130 economists predicted the legislation would discourage companies from hiring more workers and would cause reduced hours and wages for those already employed.Caterpillar noted that the company supports efforts to increase the quality and the value of health care for patients as well as lower costs for employer-sponsored insurance coverage."Unfortunately, neither the current legislation in the House and Senate, nor the president's proposal, meets these goals," the letter said.

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We're all going to be playing with fire on this thread. :hot:Let's all please keep it civil or F-man will squash it.

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I was all for Health reform. .......But this was not the answer.Businesses will be burdened with having to pay higher insurance costs for their employees who are already covered. Busnesses will have to offer health coverage, or face very heavy fines. Some businesses are just getting by as it is.In this economy, where the U.S. is in unbelieveably high debt, and where unemployment is about 9%, what's going to happen when businesses lay off people because they can't afford to pay for the health coverage the Government mandates?Higher unemployment.Did you know that this bill won't take effect for another 4 years....but you, and busnesses will be taxed, and billed immediately for the 4 years prior to this taking effect?? That's right, you get to pay for 4 years before you even get anything. Not many people know this.Looks like all Walmart employees will finally get health coverage. ...lets hope they can afford it being it's now a law. Failure to get the coverage is a fine of over $600. The price for failure to pay the fine or get coverage is prison. (This is the U.S.?)

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I'm weeping for Caterpillar.:cry:

Me too buddy, me too.That's just ONE company. The whole house of cards could fold.The U.S. is in huge trouble.
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Hey, just another reason this guy should never have been voted into office. I wonder what folks were thinking that change was a good thing...Change it back please....Every day, George W looks better and better....My 2¢...Mike

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For us in Germany, it´s inconceivable not to have a health insurance. Sure, there are differences between state health insurances and private ones, but everybody here has an insurance. If one needs to go to hospital, he never has to be worried about the costs for the treatment.

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I agree Christine, I think it's a good thing. Personally I don't have a problem with any of my fellow countrymen receiving treatments as oppose to... dying unattended?Also these initial costs will pay off in the long run!Another thing to note is that I have no sympathy at all for the managers and CEOs, it's from their bonuses where they should finance this from. But that probably won't happen.Either way I praise Obama for doing this, he made USA more civilised in my eyes.

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Quote : Fresh Prince, " I agree Christine, I think it's a good thing. Personally I don't have a problem with any of my fellow countrymen receiving treatments as oppose to... dying unattended? "------------------------------------------------------------------------ Nobody dies in the United States, unattended! Even a homeless person can go into an emergency room at a hospital & receive treatment. We're not a barbarian nation!

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For us in Germany' date=' it´s inconceivable not to have a health insurance.[/quote']Unfortunately, in America today it is not possible to buy health insurance. You can pay "insurance" companies a lot of money, but they can and do drop coverage when you get sick.
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We're all going to be playing with fire on this thread. :hot:Let's all please keep it civil or F-man will squash it.

What he said!
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Let me get this straight......we're trying to pass a health care plan written by a committeewhose chairman says he doesn't understand it, passed by a Congress that hasn't read it but exempts themselves from it, be signed by a president that also hasn't read it and who smokes,with funding administered by a treasury chief who didn't pay his taxes,all to be overseen by a surgeon general who is obese, and financed by a country that's broke. What the could possibly go wrong???? :D:D:D
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I talked with a friend who owns several Wendy's in town at the gym where I go and he stated he was going to have to lay-off people and everybody who owns a business would have to raise their prices 18 to 20%.

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Quote : Even a homeless person can go into an emergency room at a hospital & receive treatment.

I wonder who pays the bill of that treatment...?
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The same people who've been paying for it all along, us, people with jobs. That's why I don't understand why they say people don't have health care in the U.S. Everybody has health care. The problem is not everybody pays for health care.ABC news started a several part explanation on the reform because most people don't understand what exactly is being done. I have to say after seeing part 1 that there are many good ideas. Only time will tell.

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I was all for Health reform. .......But this was not the answer.Businesses will be burdened with having to pay higher insurance costs for their employees who are already covered. Busnesses will have to offer health coverage' date=' or face very heavy fines. Some businesses are just getting by as it is.In this economy, where the U.S. is in unbelieveably high debt, and where unemployment is about 9%, what's going to happen when businesses lay off people because they can't afford to pay for the health coverage the Government mandates?Higher unemployment.[/b'] Did you know that this bill won't take effect for another 4 years....but you, and busnesses will be taxed, and billed immediately for the 4 years prior to this taking effect?? That's right, you get to pay for 4 years before you even get anything. Not many people know this.
Ditto. Also, this will stunt whatever "recovery" we had and put us deeper into a depression. In addition to the lay-offs you mentioned, businesses that were going to expand, might not or they won't expand as big as planned. It also won't give anyone an incentive to start a business. Of the 10 democrats from my state of Masssachusetts, only one voted againt this monstrosity. One of the reasons in his words, "Pretend that the health care system is a bus. We've got a broken down bus with flat tires, and has burned a lot of fuel. Now we're adding 32 million passengers to the bus while we try to fix it. We should have fixed the system before adding the people to it."-Rep. Stephen Lynch (D-MA)
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"Facts..just the facts, please"10 THINGS EVERY AMERICAN SHOULD KNOW ABOUT HEALTH CARE REFORM1. Once reform is fully implemented, over 95% of Americans will have health insurance coverage, including 32 million who are currently uninsured.22. Health insurance companies will no longer be allowed to deny people coverage because of preexisting conditions—or to drop coverage when people become sick.33. Just like members of Congress, individuals and small businesses who can't afford to purchase insurance on their own will be able to pool together and choose from a variety of competing plans with lower premiums.44. Reform will cut the federal budget deficit by $138 billion over the next ten years, and a whopping $1.2 trillion in the following ten years.55. Health care will be more affordable for families and small businesses thanks to new tax credits, subsidies, and other assistance—paid for largely by taxing insurance companies, drug companies, and the very wealthiest Americans.66. Seniors on Medicare will pay less for their prescription drugs because the legislation closes the "donut hole" gap in existing coverage.77. By reducing health care costs for employers, reform will create or save more than 2.5 million jobs over the next decade.88. Medicaid will be expanded to offer health insurance coverage to an additional 16 million low-income people.99. Instead of losing coverage after they leave home or graduate from college, young adults will be able to remain on their families' insurance plans until age 26.1010. Community health centers would receive an additional $11 billion, doubling the number of patients who can be treated regardless of their insurance or ability to pay.11Sources:1. Final vote results on motion to concur in Senate amendments to the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act, Clerk of the U.S. House of Representatives, March 21, 2010 http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2010/roll165.xml2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 11. "Affordable Health Care for America: Summary," House Energy and Commerce Committee, March 18, 2010 http://wwwd.house.gov/akamaidocs/energycommerce/SUMMARY.pdf4. "Insurance Companies Prosper, Families Suffer: Our Broken Health Insurance System," U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, Accessed March 22, 2010 http://healthreform.gov/reports/insuranceprospers/index.html5. "Affordable Health Care for America: Health Insurance Reform at a Glance: Revenue Provisions," House Energy and Commerce Committee, March 18, 2010 http://wwwd.house.gov/akamaidocs/energycommerce/REVENUE.pdf8. "New Jobs Through Better Health Care," Center for American Progress, January 8, 2010 http://www.moveon.org/r?r=87402&id=19504-6436725-FATZIGx&t=29, 10. "Proposed Changes in the Final Health Care Bill," The New York Times, March 22, 2010 http://www.moveon.org/r?r=87403&id=19504-6436725-FATZIGx&t=311. "Affordable Health Care for America: Health Insurance Reform at a Glance: Addressing Health and Health Care Disparities," House Energy and Commerce Committee, March 20, 2010 http://docs.house.gov/energycommerce/DISPARITIES.pdf

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We don't have money to pay for this, and all the backroom wheeling and dealing (i.e. "Bribery") is disgusting. The gov't already takes over 1/3 of my paycheck and is poised to take more. When do you reach the tipping point when people realize the enormous excesses of gov't bureaucracy? 51% of your check?20 Ways ObamaCare Will Take Away Our Freedoms By David Hogberg With House Democrats poised to pass the Senate health care bill with some reconciliation changes later today, it is worthwhile to take a comprehensive look at the freedoms we will lose.Of course, the overhaul is supposed to provide us with security. But it will result in skyrocketing insurance costs and physicians leaving the field in droves, making it harder to afford and find medical care. We may be about to live Benjamin Franklin’s adage, “People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both.â€The sections described below are taken from HR 3590 as agreed to by the Senate and from the reconciliation bill as displayed by the Rules Committee.1. You are young and don’t want health insurance? You are starting up a small business and need to minimize expenses, and one way to do that is to forego health insurance? Tough. You have to pay $750 annually for the “privilege.†(Section 1501)2. You are young and healthy and want to pay for insurance that reflects that status? Tough. You’ll have to pay for premiums that cover not only you, but also the guy who smokes three packs a day, drink a gallon of whiskey and eats chicken fat off the floor. That’s because insurance companies will no longer be able to underwrite on the basis of a person’s health status. (Section 2701).3. You would like to pay less in premiums by buying insurance with lifetime or annual limits on coverage? Tough. Health insurers will no longer be able to offer such policies, even if that is what customers prefer. (Section 2711).4. Think you’d like a policy that is cheaper because it doesn’t cover preventive care or requires cost-sharing for such care? Tough. Health insurers will no longer be able to offer policies that do not cover preventive services or offer them with cost-sharing, even if that’s what the customer wants. (Section 2712).5. You are an employer and you would like to offer coverage that doesn’t allow your employers’ slacker children to stay on the policy until age 26? Tough. (Section 2714).6. You must buy a policy that covers ambulatory patient services, emergency services, hospitalization, maternity and newborn care, mental health and substance use disorder services, including behavioral health treatment; prescription drugs; rehabilitative and habilitative services and devices; laboratory services; preventive and wellness services; chronic disease management; and pediatric services, including oral and vision care.You’re a single guy without children? Tough, your policy must cover pediatric services. You’re a woman who can’t have children? Tough, your policy must cover maternity services. You’re a teetotaler? Tough, your policy must cover substance abuse treatment. (Add your own violation of personal freedom here.) (Section 1302).7. Do you want a plan with lots of cost-sharing and low premiums? Well, the best you can do is a “Bronze plan,†which has benefits that provide benefits that are actuarially equivalent to 60% of the full actuarial value of the benefits provided under the plan. Anything lower than that, tough. (Section 1302 (d) (1) (A))8. You are an employer in the small-group insurance market and you’d like to offer policies with deductibles higher than $2,000 for individuals and $4,000 for families? Tough. (Section 1302 © (2) (A).9. If you are a large employer (defined as at least 101 employees) and you do not want to provide health insurance to your employee, then you will pay a $750 fine per employee (It could be $2,000 to $3,000 under the reconciliation changes). Think you know how to better spend that money? Tough. (Section 1513).10. You are an employer who offers health flexible spending arrangements and your employees want to deduct more than $2,500 from their salaries for it? Sorry, can’t do that. (Section 9005 (i)).11. If you are a physician and you don’t want the government looking over your shoulder? Tough. The Secretary of Health and Human Services is authorized to use your claims data to issue you reports that measure the resources you use, provide information on the quality of care you provide, and compare the resources you use to those used by other physicians. Of course, this will all be just for informational purposes. It’s not like the government will ever use it to intervene in your practice and patients’ care. Of course not. (Section 3003 (i))12. If you are a physician and you want to own your own hospital, you must be an owner and have a “Medicare provider agreement†by Feb. 1, 2010. (Dec. 31, 2010 in the reconciliation changes.) If you didn’t have those by then, you are out of luck. (Section 6001 (i) (1) (A))13. If you are a physician owner and you want to expand your hospital? Well, you can’t (Section 6001 (i) (1) (B). Unless, it is located in a country where, over the last five years, population growth has been 150% of what it has been in the state (Section 6601 (i) (3) ( E)). And then you cannot increase your capacity by more than 200% (Section 6001 (i) (3) ©).14. You are a health insurer and you want to raise premiums to meet costs? Well, if that increase is deemed “unreasonable†by the Secretary of Health and Human Services it will be subject to review and can be denied. (Section 1003)15. The government will extract a fee of $2.3 billion annually from the pharmaceutical industry. If you are a pharmaceutical company what you will pay depends on the ratio of the number of brand-name drugs you sell to the total number of brand-name drugs sold in the U.S. So, if you sell 10% of the brand-name drugs in the U.S., what you pay will be 10% multiplied by $2.3 billion, or $230,000,000. (Under reconciliation, it starts at $2.55 billion, jumps to $3 billion in 2012, then to $3.5 billion in 2017 and $4.2 billion in 2018, before settling at $2.8 billion in 2019 (Section 1404)). Think you, as a pharmaceutical executive, know how to better use that money, say for research and development? Tough. (Section 9008 (b)).16. The government will extract a fee of $2 billion annually from medical device makers. If you are a medical device maker what you will pay depends on your share of medical device sales in the U.S. So, if you sell 10% of the medical devices in the U.S., what you pay will be 10% multiplied by $2 billion, or $200,000,000. Think you, as a medical device maker, know how to better use that money, say for R&D? Tough. (Section 9009 (b)).The reconciliation package turns that into a 2.9% excise tax for medical device makers. Think you, as a medical device maker, know how to better use that money, say for research and development? Tough. (Section 1405).17. The government will extract a fee of $6.7 billion annually from insurance companies. If you are an insurer, what you will pay depends on your share of net premiums plus 200% of your administrative costs. So, if your net premiums and administrative costs are equal to 10% of the total, you will pay 10% of $6.7 billion, or $670,000,000. In the reconciliation bill, the fee will start at $8 billion in 2014, $11.3 billion in 2015, $1.9 billion in 2017, and $14.3 billion in 2018 (Section 1406).Think you, as an insurance executive, know how to better spend that money? Tough.(Section 9010 (b) (1) (A and B).)18. If an insurance company board or its stockholders think the CEO is worth more than $500,000 in deferred compensation? Tough.(Section 9014).19. You will have to pay an additional 0.5% payroll tax on any dollar you make over $250,000 if you file a joint return and $200,000 if you file an individual return. What? You think you know how to spend the money you earned better than the government? Tough. (Section 9015).That amount will rise to a 3.8% tax if reconciliation passes. It will also apply to investment income, estates, and trusts. You think you know how to spend the money you earned better than the government? Like you need to ask. (Section 1402).20. If you go for cosmetic surgery, you will pay an additional 5% tax on the cost of the procedure. Think you know how to spend that money you earned better than the government? Tough. (Section 9017).

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I've noticed some members from other countries have chimed in on this.Your situation is not exactly the same as ours. You don't already have the financial burden we do.The state of California for example, even in it's weakened economic standing, is bigger economicly than many countries.Most likely, your county doesn't owe 6 trillion + (U.S. $) to the Chinese Government like us for a stimulous package that put us in debt on TOP of the trillions we ALREADY owe. We are bankrupting our country.There is a difference.The MAJORITY of Americans in every poll shows that we don't want this as a nation. I thought as a democracy, the leaders of the U.S. do the will of the people, not inforce things that the majority don't want.Our Social Security is almost bankrupt, medicare is failing, and they just reciently had to bail out the U.S. postal service!!Health Care in your country may work, however it's a bit different here as we are nearly broke as a nation.Chloe in England has repeatedly said that as a health care proffessional, she knows how things work there. It's not what we should be looking for.Also, nobody here in the U.S. is without health care, in that anybody, including non citizens, can get medical treatment, and won't be denied.It's not a perfect system, that's why I wanted health reform to fix these problems. I'm all FOR health reform, not this massive, largest expansion of Government the U.S. has ever had in it's history.I don't want to be forced to pay for someone else's care, i'm having to already pay for someone's unemployment, welfare, ....I'm being taxed to death.Americans want freedom.Freedom to choose.Make our own decisions.Not to have a Government dictate, mandate, and know what's best for us.We should be allowed, at least to decide if we want Gov. health care for ourselves. If so, make affordable health care available to those who want it. If we don't want it, we should be able to decide that we don't want it for ourselves. Let people choose what they want.Let me ask you this..... In your country, are you forced to buy Government health care?If you don't, are you fined?If you don't pay the fine, are you sent to prison?That is what they want to do to us.Thank you all for being civil on this issue. So far, you have all shown class by your postings. I'm very impressed with everyone!Everyone here rocks!! :clap::thumbsup:

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I can say this, having worked in hospitals coming up on 19 years now, our ERs have always been filled with folks without insurance that use it as their personal walk in care clinic and never pay the bill.Here in the US, citizen or not, we do already have health care for them. It's called indigent care and the hospitals write that cost off every year as a loss. In fact hospitals budget so much every year in anticipation of this loss. For them it is just the CODB (cost of doing business). Ever hear of the ten dollar aspirin? Why do you think it costs that much? ;)It will be interesting to see what happens in the next few years.There are some good points to this bill but my concern is what exactly is in the 2800 pages that got passed along with it and what will be the repercussion to the American people as a result of that? Somehow Nancy's statement of "we have to pass it to find out what's in it" kinda scares me. :eek:

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Jay Leno said it best.You can beat the system!If you don't want to pay for Obama's health care, don't buy it.You'll be fined.Don't pay the fine.You'll be sent to prison.In prison, you'll get FREE health care!! :D:D:D

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Coop, in Germany one is forced to buy a health care insurance. When I got my new job, I was first asked to bring the copy of my health insurance. Otherwise, I wouldn´t have gotten the job. Even my daughter had to prove that she was insured before starting her studies.We, too, have to pay for many people who get health care benefits, but have never paid a cent. I´m very far from being a racist, but I always get steamed when I hear that people who immigrate to Germany bring their relatives with them (preferred their old parents, but sometimes uncles and aunts). These retired people get pension here and profit from the German health care system and other benefits.

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I really enjoyed reading all the different posts and viewpoints. On face value, it seems strange to me why anyone would be against free healthcare for all, but that is the principle, whereas in practice, the reality is that it will cause huge strains on the private sector.In Europe, we take national healthcare for granted. It’s reassuring to know that regardless of employment status, you and your family will be taken care of in the event of illness. Both of my parents are old, and this is very reassuring to me, otherwise it would have been a huge weight on our shoulders.I also feel that both the Dems and Republicans are playing politics with this. And unfortunately, this isn’t surprising.Many thanks to cageyJG for the excellent quote from Benjamin Franklin: “People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both.†But I think this quote is more applicable to other issues, and not so much to this one.

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