Crocketts shoulder holster

[Lifeguard]

Also, there was a change in the stamping on the back of the mag cases. My new case clearly has SCL26 on it, but I'm starting to wonder if it was misstamped and mispackaged.

[Lifeguard]

Ted Blocker will still make a Lifeline for the Bren Ten' date=' you just specify the firearm when you order. Galco is a much bigger mass production outfit, so they only make holsters for newer handguns. However I have not asked their custom department if they would make a holster component for the Bren Ten or S&W 645/4506 yet. I plan to later on down the line.I'm not sure what Galco mag case was meant for the S&W. The SCL26 is for a single stack 1911 mag, and won't fit the S&W 645 or 4506 with the wide based plate. There's not enough strap to reach the last snap. The SCL28 is made for the double stack .45 mags, but I have one and if you tighten the screws enough it will hold a S&W single stack mag, although it will wiggle front and back. I know the SCL20 won't fit an 8rd S&W mag, but I haven't tried the SCL24. I have seen a Bren Ten holster on ebay which had an SCL22 mag case, so the Bren Ten mag which fit 10 .45 rounds in a single stack (and fit 10mm too, staggered) might have needed that case, but they didn't use it 2nd season (reused the Lifeline mag case with the Galco harness and holster). And it might be the case that is meant to fit the S&W 645/4506 mags.[/quote']I don't know if I forgot a link to the Ted Blocker Lifeline rig or it got deleted in the forum update, but here's the page to order one on for $189 plus $15 shipping:http://www.tedblockerholsters.com/product.cfm?pi=5D33EE21-B65D-3BC4-05822228CA89164FJust specify Dornaus & Dixon Bren Ten. I'm not sure if it should be ordered tan or dark brown?

[Lifeguard]

I received my SCL28 and took some comparison shots with the lighter tan SCL22. You can see how much roomier the SCL28 is, as it is meant for a staggered .45 ACP or 10mm mag. However it does have a longer strap (the case portion is exactly the same in length and width, just slightly deeper on the SCL28). When you screw the adjustors all the way down, it is still loose inside but not as bad. The strap is a little bit long, but the mag doesn't fall out when the case is secured. So it's the closest fit for the 4506 mags (maybe the 645 mags too, I don't have any to try). BTW, if you are looking for a vintage mag case, I've noticed they changed the number system. I've seen both a 1410 and 1403 case on ebay. The 1410 from the listings appears to be for the 9mm or .40 S&W mags (equivalent of the SCL24 I guess). I can't tell with the 1403.

[Kavinsky]

Hmm why would ted blocker still make holsters for the bren ten, do they have one or a model of one at the shop?

[Lifeguard]

Hmm why would ted blocker still make holsters for the bren ten' date=' do they have one or a model of one at the shop?[/quote']Small operation, hand made to order rigs which is why they are a little more expensive. Yeah, I heard they still have the Bren Ten form from years past.

[Lifeguard]

I was going through my pics of Galco holsters I've found online, and several of the older rigs that had a holster for LG Frame S&W 192, also had a 1405 mag case with them. That seems to be the case that Crocket would have been using. So if you are shopping for a vintage Crockett Galco rig, look for that mag case.

[Kavinsky]

Sorry if I havent been really saying too much here. As I really dont know that much about the holsters and the small details that go along with them.Frankly its just going over my head

[Lifeguard]

Sorry if I havent been really saying too much here. As I really dont know that much about the holsters and the small details that go along with them.Frankly its just going over my head

No problem. That's why I'm posting everything I learn and posting pics to help sort out what part numbers are what.

[Lifeguard]

I just purchased a vintage Jackass-style 262 holster in tan from someone on Armslist. He was a Vice-fan too and knew a lot about the old Galco harness and had a vintage catalog with it listed. He was telling me the 260 holster was used at the beginning of season 3 when the S&W 645 was adopted. Then sometime later it was swapped out with probably what was the 192 holster, which had the attachment further under the barrel than the 260 but was otherwise identical. The 192 and 262 are the same holster with different numbers and according to the catalog fit the S&W 645 and 4506. My theory on the different numbers is that the 192 is the old numbering system, as the new system they use now the 100 numbered holsters are for revolvers and the 200s are semi-autos, so whenever they came up with their new system 192 became 262. Also I saw an older harness in his pics, and the screw in retainers had square backs to them and were silver, where as the the modern ones are black faced with a round brass backing to them.

[Kavinsky]

can you scan the catalog when it arives? as I doubt too many of those are still around nowadays

[Lifeguard]

can you scan the catalog when it arives? as I doubt too many of those are still around nowadays

Sorry, I guess I wasn't clear on that. The guy I bought it from sent me a picture of the Galco catalog, but that was not part of the auction. I wouldn't sell something like that either. I think it's OK to share that pic with the forum, I don't think it was privileged.

[Lifeguard]

I completed my Galco S&W harness setup with all period pieces; 262 holster, A1405 mag case and A1412 cuffs case.  

 

 

 

 

[Lifeguard]

I should mention that the A1405 mag case is period correct, however it is not screen accurate.  Crockett's mag case appears to be either a custom item or something that saw limited release as there are some examples of this case that pop up from time to time.  The bottom half of this mag case is similar to the A1405.  However the top half is more like the modern cases, but the strap retainers are mounted to the back of the case instead of the corners:

 

 

 

[Kavinsky]

you found a 645 TR model, yeash lol well done man

 

FYI the normal 645 for me has been working pretty well, its just well I had to rub down some rough edges on the trigger (casting was a little rough), front sight was a little dinged so I took some steel model paint, the airbrush kind to cover up the ding, applied with a brush and switched the grips

 

also turns out Sonny's gun had square bushings for the early grips, which makes putting packmeyer grips on it a tricky affair, had to put some clear grease over it to stretch it over the square holes, and I had to push the rear sight over a touch to the left with my finger

 

but its never missed a beat firing wise, the 4006 though that's a different story

 

turns out I may need to replace the extractor spring, with part 10000800, either that or replace the recoil spring, which I need to look into what the weight is for it. as its doing this weird stove pipe like thing where it doesnt kick the cartridge out, which is apparently because the extractor spring on the old early ones can wear out overtime, and they redid them for the latter guns making the spring thicker

 

trick is trying to get the pin out next, gonna have to go to a gunsmith as that pin aint coming out with a punch it seems, atleast without brute force and I do not want to ding up the gun trying to get it out.

 

and also I had to push the trigger reset spring back into position, turns out that if that little spring is damaged or moved out of position it can cause a sort of unplessant goverment like trigger feel.

 

so if the trigger on a third gen feels like it has a lousy SA, chances are your Trigger reset spring

 

3rd photo down, that brass thing, can see it in the gun with the slide off:

 

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=397285462

 

it needs to be angled forward so that when it goes from DA to SA it pushed against the trigger slightly to get it into the groove for SA fire, if not when you put your finger on the trigger you can feel a little snap as it falls into place.

 

however I dont think the extractor issue applies to anything but the 4006, but that trigger thing should help anyone with a Smith 39 series with a lousy trigger.

 

 

with the holster mag pouch I gotta wonder if maybe it was a hold over from the bren ten, after all the apeal of the bren ten was that it wasnt a wide bodied 2 X 4 as I've heard some people refere to the model 59/659 as.

 

IE the mags were about roughly the normal size of a single stack.

 

but anyways that's what I've been up to, also took the extractor out and cleaned it on the Kimber and put on a new 16 pound factory recoil spring and I think it needed it.

 

will have to report on it latter.

[Lifeguard]

Thanks, I couldn't pass up the opportunity.  However it left me too poor to buy some ball ammo and range time to try it out at the moment, so I don't know how well the spring has held up over all these years.  When breaking it down, the spring is pretty hazardous if you're not careful.  Could probably do some real damage if it launches.  

 

Yes, the trigger is nicely machined on the 645-INT.  Someday I'll also get an early 645 too, but I want a 6906 next to complement the 645-INT.  

 

The 645 mag pouch from season 3 thru 5 is the same design as the Ted Blocker Lifeline version.  However the S&W mag pouch is definitely a Galco version as it uses the black plastic attachments for the harness.  The Lifeline mag pouch from season 1 and 2 has metal rectangular attachments on a leather swivel.  I've only seen pics of the Bren Ten magazine, so I don't know how it compares size-wise to the S&W 645 mag.  But since it holds 10 rounds of .45 ACP while the S&W holds 8, I assume it would not fit in a standard .45 single stack mag case.  That it would need a longer custom mag case, which I presume is why in second season when they changed to the Galco holster and harness, they kept the Lifeline mag case.

[Kavinsky]

actually brownells has the recoil springs in stock in the parts section, hell I'm thinking of ordering in one for the 4006 and seeing if maybe the springs just gone weak over time.

 

after all these are 20+ year old semi automatic pistols, so you could do that with yours as well

 

http://www.vintagepistols.com/range_report_S&W_4506.html

 

and cant hurt to order in a replacement spring from the manufacturer and see if its noticbly stronger than the one that came out if the guns not functioning right.

 

like in my case with the 4006

 

as 3.50 is a hell of alot cheaper than sending it to a gunsmith.

 

and yes, I launched the recoil spring on the kimber when taking it off via the recoil spring cap, straight into the slightly rusty florecent lighting, thankfully its a stainless cap and the gun was already pretty beat up though so its not like I did that accidentally to the cap of a mint condition gun

 

but I've only done that once before and it was on the Colt Gold Cup when I first got it years ago.

 

 

also when taking it down make sure you have a firm hold of the trigger stop and dont let it flop around during take down to prevent that often seen scratch mark from forming on it

 

like here

http://www.flickr.com/photos/defender90/6807735259/

 

 

although on the 1911 it happens much more frequenly as you only have to line up the slide stop on one thing on the Smiths, while on the 1911 its two. 

 

the hole for the loop holding the barrel in, and line it up with the cicular slot and push up, while on the smith its only the loop and then pushing it down into the slot, without that plunger pushing against it

 

 

and for reassembly, also make sure you put your finger on the tabs at the back the large one first, then the second one and dont force it, as I marked the back end of the 4006 with the last two by accident when trying to get it back together after fiddling with that trigger reset spring.

 

and slightly on the 645

 

and also avoid coc-king it quickly, as that also leaves a mark in the metal, as the hammers bottom just touches the metal under normal slow coc-king, but coc-king it quickly bangs it into it.

 

one thing is for sure though, no matter how much you know you always learn something new when it comes to a new to you gun designs.

 

and thank god I never learned any of this from doing it on the old mans steel frame model 39! now that I would have never forgiven myself for!

 

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=399061118

 

I mean there is a reason why I learned how to shoot on a beater 375 dollar walther P38!

[Lifeguard]

Got it.  Don't draw circles on the frame and slide with the trigger stop and slow, deliberate and intimidating cocks to chamber a round.  Those last two are the hardest to get out of the way when you put the slide back on.

 

I've noticed when I put a fresh mag in and release the slide to chamber the first round, it really slams back into place.  I've decided to avoid using my thumb to release the slide, and instead pull the slide back with my left hand when chambering the first round so the slide doesn't jackhammer in place.

[Lifeguard]

BTW, was watching Castle with the wife this morning, season 5 episode 1 "After the Storm."  I noticed that Det Kate Becket had a Galco shoulder holster in tan she put on before going after the senator.  This surprised me because she normally had a holster on her belt for her Glock 19, along with a BUG on her ankle.   I didn't get a good look at it, but I presume it was the Miami Classic style.  However I don't think she had her Glock 19, as the handgun had a polished slide.  She had just quite the force, so maybe the Glock 19 was her LEO issue and the other handgun with Galco holster was her personal weapon.  I'll have to watch it again and see if I can see more, but I was impressed to see Beckett strapped like Crockett.  

[Kavinsky]

that was the other thing, make sure you have a snap cap in when racking the slide like that, not only for the sake of the firing pin but the metal of the action

 

as I remember watching on the Nutinfancy channel (back when I used to watch him, until I realized he's the kind of person where the light is not always on all the time in there, such as with his CZ 75 and Walther PP)

 

that the gunsmith Terry G while working on an M1911 said that the actual Brass of the cartridge acts as a shock absorber for the slide, so if no brass its metal on metal hitting each other

 

also when deco-cking the gun make sure to have your finger infront of the hammer and let it drop slowly, as overtime on any gun that stresses the decoc-ker out and that can break over a time period of 60 years.

 

and its kind of funny I just learned that in some cases that applies to watches as well, automatics in particular. as the main spring is winding up the date to move over to the next one in the sequence between 9 PM and 3 Am, so you dont want to flip it ahead if you have a quickset until after 12 PM

 

otherwise apparently you can damage the watch, although the rule was given, dont use the quickset between 9 pm to 3 am, but mind you that was for a Patek Phillipe Annual Callender, and I'm not sure if that would really hurt a Rolex Explorer 2, but its probably a good rule of thumb to remember for the watch and all watches.

 

also a slide stop is a slide stop, not a slide release, otherwise you put wear on that as well, and mark up the slide stop and the slide.

 

although some guns have it rigged up so you have to drop the slide stop to release the slide, like the Ruger 22 series.

 

and honestly I dont even know what castle is, I've been watching ME tv for the past couple of weeks if not months

 

Perry Mason, Iron Sides, Hogans Heros, Get Smart, Hawaii 5-0 and the Jeremey Brett Sherlock homes with maybe new bouts of the new show on NBC or CBS

Edited March 13, 2014 by Kavinsky

[Lifeguard]

Yeah, I already had a set of .45 ACP snap caps beforehand.  Even with the snap cap in there, it hits pretty hard so i figured I shouldn't do that again.  Yeah, I know what you're saying about the decocker, it snaps down pretty hard.  

 

Castle is a current network show.   One of the fewer newer shows I bother watching.  

[Kavinsky]

yeah had the same thing happen with the non plastic snap caps I was using.

 

also you may want to see this and save the photo at the end:

 

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=400042118

 

 

 

and does the mag pouch here in the first photo line up with what's above?

 

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=397378802

[Lifeguard]

yeah had the same thing happen with the non plastic snap caps I was using.

 

also you may want to see this and save the photo at the end:

 

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=400042118

 

 

 

and does the mag pouch here in the first photo line up with what's above?

 

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=397378802

 

Yeah, I don't know what my snap caps are made out of.  They are pretty light and have a red finish on them.  Cycling them through the S&W a few times, there is a bit of silver showing through around the lip, so I don't think they are brass but maybe aluminum.  

 

Yes, I have that sheet.  It was a pack in slip with the 645-INT in the box.  S&W probably used it as a selling point back in the day to help encourage people to buy up the interim and pilot guns as collectables.  That's why I started referring to it as the 645 interim instead of 645 transitional, as interim appears to be their official terminology for it.  There's no way to know that I can tell if I have an interim model or a pilot model.  They were both marked "special" on the box.  

 

The mag pouch for the Bren Ten in that auction?  It's a belt mount, but it might be a Galco.  I don't know if Galco made shoulder mag case for the Bren Ten, that might be why the production continued to use the Lifeline mag case with the Galco holster and harness.  I've never had a Bren Ten mag (just saw one listed for over a hundred bucks), so I'm not sure how it compares to the 645 mag.  But since it holds 10 rounds of .45 ACP and the S&W 645 mag holds 8 rounds, I'm assuming the Bren Ten mag is too long for the A1405 mag case as the 645 mags barely fit in my A1405 case.  Galco may not have bothered with designing a special case just for the Bren Ten mag as it was an orphaned gun at that point, or if they did it was a pretty rare part.  

 

And can you believe there are two Bren Tens on gun broker right now.  Dammmmmn......if only I had real money laying around.

Edited March 15, 2014 by Lifeguard

[Lifeguard]

Here's some pics of a Jackass mag case that is similar to Crockett's 645 mag case for a different type of mag:

 

 

 

 

These types of mag cases seem to be pretty rare.  It might be a design that was transitional between the early two piece style of mag case and the modern one piece with screw tightening feature.  The guy who gave me these pics works with leather and would like to make a replica of Crockett's case in the future, and he did this combo picture to show how combining the top of this case above with the bottom of the A1405 makes Crockett's mag case:

 

Edited March 15, 2014 by Lifeguard

[Kavinsky]

Hmm you may be in the right about this from the getgo, the shooting times magazine had an article on the Double Eagle in 10mm and it said that the frame was wider about by about a 10th of an inch, all around for the entire gun

 

and that could also apply to the mags, I think, but I'm not sure.

 

interestingly enough though I may have a possible all metal gun to track down for 10mm reading that article, and also it gave the number that apparently a 10mm is 1.5 that of a .45 recoil wise.

[Kavinsky]

actually I might have an answer on this, just reading up on the Bren ten in the book I got today, it turns out apparently Michale Mann had some prior experence with the old jackass holster rig that they latter used for the bren ten in the Movie Theif, as apparently the series 80 colt there was using that holster.

 

which fits given they switched between a standard 5 inch series 80 and a long slide custom for the inside shots.

 

and looking at the standard M1911 magazine and the 645's theres barely a quarter of an inch difference length wise with them, so maybe the mag pouch was reused from James Cann's old pistol holster from theif, a 1979 to 1981 mag pouch for that rig for the 645 and the Intermn gun?

Edited March 22, 2014 by Kavinsky