Crocketts shoulder holster


aussiefan

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actually I might have an answer on this, just reading up on the Bren ten in the book I got today, it turns out apparently Michale Mann had some prior experence with the old jackass holster rig that they latter used for the bren ten in the Movie Theif, as apparently the series 80 colt there was using that holster.

 

which fits given they switched between a standard 5 inch series 80 and a long slide custom for the inside shots.

 

and looking at the standard M1911 magazine and the 645's theres barely a quarter of an inch difference length wise with them, so maybe the mag pouch was reused from James Cann's old pistol holster from theif, a 1979 to 1981 mag pouch for that rig for the 645 and the Intermn gun?

 

Yeah, I knew about the Jackass holster on Thief.  The story out there is that Michael Mann liked the holster, but couldn't find it again because of the name change to Galco and that's why they ended up with the Ted Blocker Lifeline approximation of the Jackass.  

 

I'm not sure if the Jackass logo on the plastic tie down piece indicates the mag case being earlier than 1985, as my vintage A1405 mag case also has the same Jackass logo on the plastic part.  

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  • 2 weeks later...

actually I just read something kinda odd, apparently Johnson liked to also wear part of his holster backwards? flipped inward? maybe this could be part of the reason why it showed up like that?

 

and Sorry if I'm kinda hopping all over the place with this as I'm still just reading through the Bren Ten The Heir Apparent Book, and its kinda funny how in detail the author gets about everything.

 

such as Browning was a designer but not much of a shooter and thought that the M1911 and BHP were to be carried primarily in condition three, mag in, nothing in the chamber, and the grip safety of the M1911 was a US goverment asked for thing with the M1911

 

and this is straight from Jeff Coopers mouth too.

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  • 4 weeks later...

actually I just read something kinda odd, apparently Johnson liked to also wear part of his holster backwards? flipped inward? maybe this could be part of the reason why it showed up like that?

 

and Sorry if I'm kinda hopping all over the place with this as I'm still just reading through the Bren Ten The Heir Apparent Book, and its kinda funny how in detail the author gets about everything.

 

such as Browning was a designer but not much of a shooter and thought that the M1911 and BHP were to be carried primarily in condition three, mag in, nothing in the chamber, and the grip safety of the M1911 was a US goverment asked for thing with the M1911

 

and this is straight from Jeff Coopers mouth too.

 

I haven't seen any episodes where Crockett's Galco holster has any reversed or backward parts.  The Ted Blocker Lifeline harness, in first season and the first few episodes of second season, definitely is being worn inside out and upside down.  So that might be what you are referencing.  

 

BTW, I did receive the Galco International catalog after all (catalog #21).  I think it is the 1989 catalog, but it is not dated (the hair styles and fashion of the catalog models are definitely around that time period).  The shoulder holster system was selling under the Miami Classic name in the catalog.  The holster is the modern style with the retainers on top and the slider is one piece with the retainer.  The mag case is the SCL number part with open corners and screw downs adjusters in the center.  The cuff case is called the SC7, and there is both a wide harness and narrow harness available.  Everything in tan or black.  It's pretty much the same items you can order today, only with silver snaps and Chicago screws instead of blackened.  There's one page that depicts the 5th season props of the Galco shoulder holster, S&W 645-interim, 645 mags (with rubber bottoms on the plates) and no cuff case.  

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Hmm so that means the mags were the modern kind that were standard on the 4506 then with the interm, probably no hold overs either then.

 

 

 

also I'm still reading through the book too, havent gotten to the section about the bren on vice yet.

 

but its interesting to note that one of the makers of the bren ten, I think Dixon, openly said that if they had stuck with it being in .45 acp they probably would have been a success and he wishes that he had stuck to this point and told cooper no when it came to going with the 10mm.

 

although to be fair it was the magnum 80's after all, the Desert Eagle, the Coonan, the AMT automag, Freedom arms also I think started up around this time period with the .454 Casull so its understandable that they got caught up in that.

 

along with the Colt 10mm M1911 and the Double eagle, although while that had problems apparently the MK2 is a really good gun.

 

but the weirder part is there is apparently 3 or 4 different primary loadings that were intended for the 10mm.

 

the Cooper Concept one, the 200 Grains, 1000 FPS in an interm gun between 9mm and .45 acp, but as time went on Cooper wanted it to be 1000 FPS not comming out of the muzzle like originally intended but at the target realistically.

 

so it got bumped to 1100, then to 1150 to 1200, then Norma bumped that up to 1250 plus get this.

 

they also made a 170 Grain Bullet moving at 1350, more or less around the same specs as the Magnum Breaker, the 124 Grain Superload that broke anything that it got put in back in the 1980's for the .357 magnum

 

it was some super velocity low grainage bullet ment for maxiumn foot pounds of energy with low recoil moving at I think roughly that speed and what it would do is because of the shortened bullet it would put excessive stress on the bottom of the forcing cone of the gun.

 

any gun, and this broke Colt Pythons and Model 19's that were now being crushfit, inadvertantly making that part even weaker and even apparently one or two ruger GP100's

 

so you gotta figure the bren ten was made to be a .45 ACP first, then a 10mm that was only about 100 FPS off of a modern .40 SW cartridge, then bumped up and bumped up again to .41 Magnum levels in a gun that was designed primarily not as a magnum gun

 

but to be the best .45 ever made, a .45 made for real shooters and lovers of guns as Cooper thought back then that they were going to stop making the M1911, as colt were the only ones making it back then and were apparently ever constantly threatening that they wanted out of the gun business in the 1980's

 

which fits in with the quality control issues I've heard with the pythons in the 1980's, in additon to the magnum cracker breaking all of the guns.

 

so the bren ten was very much a gun of its time, its just it was ment to be a .45, not a .41 magnum semi automatic with a Spring recoil system

 

which ment that vs the Desert Eagel that's an extra 200 FPS behind the bullet, as the Desert Eagle has a Rifle Bolt like locking system that runs off of a gas port underneath the barrel to operate the action and Negate the recoil.

 

plus probably the wear on the gun, explaining why while the Desert Eagle stuck around and pulled in outsiders with the .50 Call biggest bad in the bad valley deal,  the rest died from QC and Ammo Avalability issues.

 

as the desert eagle is a mini rifle handgun using Magnum revolver ammo, although in an ironic twist of fate, 10mm is now cheaper than .44 magnum, atleast in maine, 38 bucks for a box of 50, vs 44 for the 44's

 

but its all starting to fit together in my understanding in the matter and what went wrong, hell maybe the thing to do with the new bren ten would be to just rig it up like a desert eagle for 10mm.

 

which actually kinda already happened, with the .41 action express I think

 

I have to admit though, I still like the idea of going with a 10mm even if cooper said that as long as the cartridge does the job, nothing else really matters.

 

but just make sure you put in a 22 to 24 pound spring, about 5 pounds more than a short blowback PPK with a 5 inch barrel vs a 3.5

 

and it can work and apparently  and not blow up a 10mm even with .44 magnum bullets, although I gotta admit I think even that is stretching it:

 

 

also Full Disclosure, thats probably the first time in about a year and a half I've watched a hickok45 video, as all that crap thats happened from the past two years really shook me up bad.

 

nothing against him, I just needed to take an extended break after all that to clear my head and get settled with enjoying guns again.

 

and the new recoil spring in the kimber really works rather well, went though 2 boxes like a nut the other day lol funny with the M1911 and a short trigger you really get into a shooting feaver with the thing and just unload like crazy, and its great fun.

 

just like Hickok45 said, with an m1911 once you get started you just cant stop.

 

although remembering its 24 bucks a box kinda helps lol.

 

 

although avoid the new smith and wessons, as the guy next to me with a Smith M1911 said the main spring broke on his and it sounds like it had happened before.

 

even started grumbling about how he couldnt drop it off their at Springfield anymore, so its happened more than once apparently

 

also he pulled out a new looking 357 magnum, attempted to shoot it and nothing happened, opened the clyinder and just put it away.

 

no idea what that was about, maybe the stupid keylock broke.

 

and I think I made him abit Jelious, although its the first time in a long time the Kimber didnt have any feeding problems as I also pulled out and cleaned all of the gunk off of the extractor which was built without a spring on it

 

also take my advice, if you have an old decently used semi auto, replace the springs with new factory ones, just do it as it'll save you alot of problems down the track.

 

and dont rack the slide without a snap cap as the snap cap/brass acts as a shock absorber for the gun in addition to the spring.

 

as I'm going to follow that as a general rule from now on with all semi autos considering this is the 3rd one thats needed work because of worn out springs.

 

the P38, which had shot springs that broke the slide over about probably the 1k rounds I put through it

 

and the Kimber which was having FIF's stove pipes every other shot before this, and just as a precaution once I get the extractor spring changed over for the 4006, I'm ordering in a new factory recoil spring for that too.

 

so changing the springs on a semi is probably something that should be done like changing the oil on a car in a way.

 

also as a final note, if you want the bren ten like experence with the ability to use it like an M1911 with the cocked and locked ability and having the safety on the frame, look at the HK 45, the new one that Jack Bower is going to be using, that thing is really something special

 

and I have shot it, the felt recoil on that thing was really surprisngly low it seemed.

 

or the P30 in .40 SW, the same gun just in .40 SW, it'd be better than going for a new gen glock in that caliber I think.

 

hell the P30's even Miraculiously MA legal too so you should be able to get it there, and if the 4006 isnt fixed by the extractor spring fix and changing the recoil spring, that's what its going to be replaced by.

 

and its FAR more ergonomic and nice to handle that the USP, going from that to a HK 45 is like going from a Fiat to a Ferrari, and I mean it.

 

 

Edit: Forgot one more thing, Crockett's Bren ten takes its finish from a planned version of the Bren ten, its not really a straight out custom

 

turns out the 4 inch model, the SF was planned to have a hard chromed slide to go along with the Stainless steel frame, so when the all black model didnt show up in the night shoot of the second epsiode

 

MIchael Mann Probably asked them if they had any other finishes they used for the bren ten that would show up at night hence why it got redone that way

 

and not simply had the coating for the frame removed and put back to standard model finish with a blued slide, like what the Nash Bridges gun was finished like

 

its hearsay but its probably what happened.

Edited by Kavinsky
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Hmm so that means the mags were the modern kind that were standard on the 4506 then with the interm, probably no hold overs either then.

 

 

..........

 

 

Edit: Forgot one more thing, Crockett's Bren ten takes its finish from a planned version of the Bren ten, its not really a straight out custom

 

turns out the 4 inch model, the SF was planned to have a hard chromed slide to go along with the Stainless steel frame, so when the all black model didnt show up in the night shoot of the second epsiode

 

MIchael Mann Probably asked them if they had any other finishes they used for the bren ten that would show up at night hence why it got redone that way

 

and not simply had the coating for the frame removed and put back to standard model finish with a blued slide, like what the Nash Bridges gun was finished like

 

its hearsay but its probably what happened.

 

What I was thinking is that the magazines that Galco had in their holster were not used on the production.  They were probably early 4506 mags that just got for display purposes, not checking to see that they had the wrong style mags.  I'm not sure if the S&W in the picture is the actual 645-TR or just 4506 they were using.  Probably the later, but I thought I read someplace that the production gave Galco one of handguns.  I could be misremembering it.

 

I've noticed the all black Bren Ten in the final fight of "Heart of Darkness", and wasn't sure what to make of that.  Your explanation sounds as plausible as any.

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Possible, after all Crockett did get an early TR as well, and alot of early production things it seemed, hell even the sunglasses probably with the Persoles

 

 

and Yeah it makes sense with the bren ten because the Sig Sauer 220 Heel Mag release he had in the pilot was all black as well, so naturally if your going to try and go for something to replace it from the pilot episode.

 

it would be all black as well, plus the detonics pocket 9 got switched to the Detonics combat master the female Court hand pulled on Charlie Glide.

 

and those had roughly the same finish

 

and also the takedown on that is a nightmare, the Pocket 9.

 

True story one of those actually showed up in an old gunshop here a few years ago for a couple hundred bucks. it kinda looks like a PPK made out of oversized lego blocks in silver in person. and after seeing what someone did for the takedown I'm not surprised they switched Crockett over to the cutdown M1911.

 

 

 

if only they had used the takedown of the Sig Sauer 232 for it

 

 

plus I think the Pocket 9 was a reuse of a gun used on the A Team at the same time, as not many of those were made, plus hell maybe that would explain why the Spas 12 mr Quickdraw used in the Hitlist was rigged up like an A team Rifle minus the Wood stocks.

 

for all I know it could have been in the A team at one point or a few other guns from that series, but I'm guessing at this point.

Edited by Kavinsky
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Here are some of the pages out of the 1989/1990 Galco catalog.  Sorry about the flash reflection:

 

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Hmm that's kind of interesting, thats a detonics combat master in stainless like his in the show in these photos.

 

you can tell by the shorter barrel and the frame stopping on the third nuckle down, although I seem to remember it having wood grips at the start of the series, not the plastic wrap arounds.

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Hey lifeguard did someone take your photo here?

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/kalashnikitty/10432612383/

 

That is probably my S&W in that photo, but it's not my pic.  The guy I bought it from had it listed in a few places, and it was probably listed before he got it last year.  He took the manufacturing decals off of it and sold the original box separately, before he sold it to me.  It also came with a 4506 mag too, which I sold in favor of screen accurate 645 early metal bottom and follower mags.

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ah, yeah I was just typing random things in flickr there as I was trying to find an apt sort of search thing to pop up, and that showed up,

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  • 2 weeks later...

Thought I'd bring this up for you, the author of the bren ten book said that he believed the same thing, that the holster, the ted blocker one was used for all of S1, and about either 4 or 8 episodes of Season 2. Before being switched over to the galco one.

 

so it would make sense that they would reuse the mag pouches and I would wadger the actual holster for the gun, just simply remounted to the new holster.

 

also it said that, in speculation that one of the prop masters in S2 was trying to create a replica of the galco holster for use in S2, and ended up accidentally contacting galco, who had moved from Chicago to Colorado and changed their name to try and get the swivel part of the holster for the replica.

 

which resulted in them finding out and just sending someone out to fit don up, after all Vice had blown up towards the end of S1, namely around the time Lombard came out.

 

after all you had that double wammy of having both evan and lobard right after each other, the damn near equavelent of Best of Both Worlds Part 1 and 2 years latter I would wadger.

Edited by Kavinsky
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  • 2 weeks later...

also lifeguard I see what you mean about all the problems your having in IL

 

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-27624839

 

as this poped up on Hickok45's twitter feed a few days ago, they really do think guns cause crime dont they, and not the drugs, poor education and lack of Bully Control in the schools and appartment blocks and the economics behind the drug trade.

 

basically blame everything except the cause of the problems.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Sorry, I've been swamped and just finally checked back on the forum.  Yeah, that's Chicago and not Illinois proper.  They always do their own thing that's different from the rest of the state.  

 

Yeah, the author of the Bren Ten book's speculation matches what we see on the screen.  The episode that was filmed in 1st season and aired in 2nd season is a Trudy episode, "The Dutch Oven."  The Gina episode "Bought and Paid For" is the one we first see the Galco holster, albeit with a different harness and mag case that are just used in this episode.  

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I should also mention the book was written by a marine, so its a no BS kinda deal, plus unexpectedly it goes into great detail about the genisis of the 4006 and the thoughts behind the first production autoloader in .40 SW.

 

A Steel one atleast technically, and the other things as I detailed in the bren ten thread.

 

which was unexpectly handy considering I pulled the trigger on one before I ordered the book l

 

oh and also the 4006 came back with the new extractor and it works well now. The gunsmith did say it was shot alot and rather worn out. so it was just wear and tear and it just needed some TLC.

 

Although I'm still going to get a new recoil spring for it as a precaution, but my god is that SOB accurate, I was shooting at clays at about 25 yards and it was only a quarter inch high at that range.

 

and its got a revolver like trigger pull feel for SA, so the jump between the two isnt as jarring as it normally is on DA/SA guns, so it was downright ideal for me.

 

although it seems like the 11 rounder mags seem to just mesh better with the gun than the 10 rounders because of that stupid stamping they put on it from back in the 1990's during the previous idiot in the white house era.

 

so thankfully its not another 686 Debacle like my father had back in the 1980's

 

http://firearmsid.com/recalls/FA_Recalls%205.htm

 

I mean look at that list of mismanufactured 686's  -_-

 

so as an FYI if your looking for a good .357, go for a model 27 with a pinned barrel, (The K's are fine as long as you stick to factory pressure ammo and there in good nick but a 27's a better bet)

 

as the pinning on that thing is there for a reason:

 

 

and I got one of the last 29's with that too, it was just dumb luck, a 1979 - 1980 model too.

 

also he mentioned that happed with someone elses 686 too, this is why in production you dont delete things willy nilly for cost savings messures, as you get unexpected problems like that.

 

so go for the pinned and recessed models if you can if you ever look into it, or a 1980's Dan Wesson as they have a pin that sticks out from the frame horizontally to keep this from happening.

 

or a ruger but I've never met a ruger revolver that I like, as the triggers have always been, clackity feeling, like there is no finess or precision to the movement. Although I'm speaking about the Ruger super redhawk, the blackhawks pretty good.

 

but it is a SAO, so I dont know how you could screw that up, but I have heard good things about a GP100.

 

or if your keen on the 686, go for a Dash 2, just be aware of it if you ever go for one, but you'd need to get a pre keylock too. So its a short window of good ones there while the Pinned and Recessed you have more to choose from.

 

 

 

Oh and also my walther P38 is currently undergoing the overhaul, turns out all the REST of the springs were shot in it, but the metal work and the structural integrity is actually sound.

 

and it just needs to have the safety which was binding replaced and all of the springs.

 

but weridly he said one of the mags had the wrong follower in it, hence why it was having trouble locking back sometimes, and I'm going to have to EBay a new set of WW2 grips.

 

so the first gun I learned how to shoot on is going to come back like new more or less except for the asthetics and the pitting in the barrel which is good considering I've been seeing Junk CYQ ww2 walthers going for 600 +, I only paid 375 for it with two mags, the original holster and it was matching numbers at that time.

 

still got a 1000 rounds out of it before it broke in its worn out state too lol.

 

and also the key to accuracy in a barrel is the end of the barrel, where the cone is, not the rest of the rifling, so pitting isnt really that big of a deal.

 

So overall good news all around, also for you too.

 

as I saw on the news this morning George Lucas is going to be setting up a museum there pretty soon in chicago, so your probably going to be able to see all of the filming minatures in person as well.

Edited by Kavinsky
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I'm not surprised at the inclusion of the S&W 4006 in the Bren Ten book.  The .40 S&W round was the direct successor of the 10mm round, and the 4006 being the first pistol for that round took the market that would have been the Bren's otherwise.

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True and oddly enough when they were trying to bring back the bren ten as the Perragrine falcon they were considering dropping the 10mm offering in favor for .40 SW

 

and then after that the head of an ammo company was trying to bring it back for essentally a .40 call version of the .357 sig, with the same balistics as the 10mm, but at a much lower case pressure with the .40 super.

 

so a bren in .40 SW roughly nearly happened twice

 

its just that I didnt think it would go into great detail about the prototype 5906, the things that were done to it and why the 4006 is so heavy.

 

as they used the weight to retard the action as they were having lock up accuracy problems (the slide locked back too soon, before the bullet could get to the end of the barrel) and they beefed up the frame as the design of the action on the 9mm with the .40 cartridge in it wasnt well suited to .40 SW and was causing cracking issues initally on the prototypes

 

probably also  the recoil spring too but it didnt say that, and if you make the spring heavy like on a PPK, 20 pounds for the PPK, 15 for the PP with only about a 3rd of an inch extra length it makes it hard to pull back with such a short barrel and grip.

 

so they might have just chosen to go with the weight and blockyness route for that reason, like Detonics did with the Pocket 9, that was just a sized up PPK to 9mm.

 

 

Crockett's backup gun in the pilot FYI, the above is probably the reason why they didnt stick with it.

 

as something about the dynamics of the locking action from switching a 9mm to .40 wasnt translating well to a 4 inch gun, so they beefed it up to deal with it, and it worked.

 

although it was redone to reduce the stress on the gun for the 4006 Longslide Performance center model with a revised locking action, something about a V like lock that I didnt really understand.

 

(it might mean that the barrel bushing was thicker on either side and around the hole the guide rod)

 

and thus the performance center is not as heavy and thinned down abit to probably 9mm spec.

 

funny though, you have what is essentally the ruger way of doing it, beef it up until it works and then you have the other way, the finess way.

 

kind of like an italian V8 rigged up with a long bore and stroke to get around the tax laws to get 200 HP with a 3 liter V8 (as they taxed based on capacity of the motor) and how the americans just went for a big strong heavy block V8 5.7 to get the same power, and just detuned that from 250 and probably 350 to 200/300 during the bad years in the 1970's and early 80's

 

two ways to get the same thing essentally and they both worked

 

and additonally its further proof that every piece of information has its place, you just gotta know where to put it as I was wondering why the Detonics Pocket 9 was so blocky vs the slim and elegant PPK.

Edited by Kavinsky
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I always wondered why the European cars had such small bore and strokes with more cylinders.  I had a friend who was a fan of Ferraris and other European sports cars, and he was always talking about how much bigger the 12 cylinders were and then rattling off the CCs, and I corrected him and said my Chevy engine was a V8 but a little under 5000cc.  He was shocked to find out American engines were actually bigger than European sports cars despite their 4 extra cylinders.  It really took him down a notch, and I was surprised to look up the specs after that and see how small the bores were on Ferraris and didn't know what the advantage of that was.

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yeah it was all about how to dodge the tax man, same thing in england too hence their preference for straight sixes. Hell were technically still dodging the gas guzzler tax by making these oversized SUV's that weight over a certain poundage.

 

which is why big cars like the Lincon MK5 contental went small and others disapeared and turned into SUV's back in the 1970's and 80's, it was all because of that stupid gas guzzler tax that I beleive Carter put in place, and also I believe cars like the El Camino went the way of the dodo because of some stupid chicken tax of all things.

 

not a 100% sure on that one but literally the only one I know of that managed to get around it was something called a Subaru Brat.

 

and also with the italians they even made a 208 ferrari 308 to sell in their own country I believe for that reason.

 

but the funny thing is ferrari was apparently heavily influenced by Packard and his V12 according to this:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WciLAb4Ni4s

 

and ferrari actually used to make 4 speed cars pre 1962, and still had live axels and 4 wheel DRUM brakes because of how untried the disc brakes used to be back then, where they were crude and required precise construction methods to work well.

 

 

hence why everyone used discs in the front and drums in the rear, and put 70% of the stopping power on the nose, which wore out the brakes on 4 wheel disc cars pretty quickly

 

hell the famous Ferrari 250 GTO is a live axel car after all and was literally the first five speed ferrari and at one point ferrari used 3 carbs for their v12's and only two cam shafts

 

3, 4 barrel carbs would you believe, just like the Tri Power Corvette and Six Pack of GM and Mopar fame respectively.

 

so contrary to popular belief italy was heavily influenced by detroit and their ways, its just we stopped evolving and stuck with what worked until the tech, gas mileage requirments and the imports forced us to start developing our cars again.

 

hell if it wasnt for Ford, Chrysler and Toyota Kicking GM's ass ever once in awhile we'd probably still be driving the equavalent of GM Made ford model T's with how bad the managment is and always will be at GM.

 

hell it seems like to make any good product their you need to get into a 6 month fight about how much the ignition switch should cost.

 

so just like smith and wesson, make sure that if you ever buy a GM car that isnt a corvette, buy a pre 1997 model.

 

and also Mr Ford Owned a Yellow 1972 Ferrari Daytona Spider to go along with that Barchetta, I saw it live on TV when it went up on the auction block, so evidently he still liked ferrari's products after the Le Mans races of 1968 and 1969.

Edited by Kavinsky
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  • 3 weeks later...

Just received at Jackass 1911 mag case off ebay the other day.  

 

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The evolution of the Galco mag case went from the original Jackass model, to the A1405, to the A1410, to the SCL22/26.  I have the Jackass, A1405 and SCL22 pictured below (the A1410 and SCL 26 are mostly the same):

 

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And from the back you can see the attachment differences:

 

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However the Jackass 1911 mag case does not have enough strap to it to accommodate the original steel bottom 645 mags:

 

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Crockett's Galco mag case for his steel bottom with steel follower 645 mags in season 3 and 4 with the S&W 645, and season 5 with the 645-TR (aka S&W 4506), is a combination of the top half of the Jackass 1911 case and the bottom half of the A1405.  For this reason I think it is actually a custom item made specifically for the show (and I suspect the Galco Bren Ten holster was a custom item too):

 

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  • 6 years later...
On 5/4/2010 at 2:21 AM, timm525 said:

Pardon the ignorance' date=' just curious, but do you guys walk around with guns?[/quote']In America, most but not all the states will issue a citizen a "concealed weapons permit" to carry a weapon or firearm. The citizen can't be a criminal (IE felon) and has to take a class on the laws and use of a firearm. There are of course places that you can not carry. All states differ slightly but for the most part bars, police stations, fed buildings, schools, polling places are off limits to carry in. Also a majority of the states have reciprocity with each other. This means for me with a Florida permit I can carry in approximately 30 (forget the exact #) other states.

You don't know how lucky you are to be able to do that in the USA (I'm thinking of moving there!) In the UK you can get 10 years in prison for infringing the very draconian firearms controls  they've brought in here. ( BTW gun crime has gone up at a steady rate since they WERE brought in.) The  only real reason being of course that they don't want an armed populace.

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Wolfie, you are exactly correct. Not wanting to turn this topic in to a political one but the current administration in America is all for gun control and trying to take away firearms from the citizens. Many laws have been proposed and we shall see what the turn out is. Hopefully none of them will ever get passed.

Sadly, once you lose a freedom, you will rarely if ever get it back.

And you are correct in the government not wanting an armed populace. I wonder why that is? (enter sarcasm emoji). 

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1 hour ago, timm525 said:

Wolfie, you are exactly correct. Not wanting to turn this topic in to a political one but the current administration in America is all for gun control and trying to take away firearms from the citizens. Many laws have been proposed and we shall see what the turn out is. Hopefully none of them will ever get passed.

Sadly, once you lose a freedom, you will rarely if ever get it back.

And you are correct in the government not wanting an armed populace. I wonder why that is? (enter sarcasm emoji). 

I'm not surprised that your left wing government wants to restrict/get rid of privately owned guns. I'm not in favour of using them to hunt animals etc (in fact I said to a guy in our gun club, what a great fella you'd be John, if you didn't go wildfowling! He wasn't  bothered (I think he always liked me) ). I love the idea of being able to protect oneself though and also it was a big interest of mine shooting  competitively (from .22s upwards). We all had to have a licence for whatever  type of weapon we owned and these were renewed regularly  (and you had to be ridiculously respectable for the police to OK them, interviewed you, home visit to   see how securely they were kept etc and even then you weren't supposed to carry them in public.) So, well controlled. But naturally not approved by the government. But no excuse to crack down on us law-abiding citizens until some lunatic killed some kids in a primary school and the government seized on this to make everyone hand in all their hand guns (I had 4) and semi automatic rifles (I had a lovely .223 with a black plastic folding stock).It was  disgusting. They cared nothing for who had been killed, it was just a good excuse. And you know how I know this? Some years ago a man massacred about 14  people and killed himself WHERE I LIVED with a shotgun. Did they ban shotguns ? No they did not. Because the elite go shooting with them. I rest my case. Good luck with keeping hold of yours. As you say (and as we're finding out now in authoritarian  Britain) once freedoms are gone they rarely come back. Sorry about the rant!  Bet Boris is glad we haven't gt an armed populace now though!!!

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