in the market for a quality .45 like Sonny's


Guest myonlyvice

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Accuracy difference between the two is mostly depends on how well fitted the barrel is to the pistol. If you go into Wal-Mart or a small gun shop they will be more likely to have .45ACP than 10MM. Me I like the way the 10MM feels on recoil as I get more torque firing the .45ACP. I do plan on getting a Vice Model Bren in .45ACP, but I may ask my order be changed to both Vices being in 10MM.

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Accuracy difference between the two is mostly depends on how well fitted the barrel is to the pistol.

Indeed, that was one of the key things about bren, the bushing was made to be part of the slide itself rather than a separate part like it is on the 1911 for a stock tighter fit for that very same reasonAfter all the military 1911's were made to be loose so they went off all the time.I have to admit I dont have that much experence shooting 10mm, but I have shot a glock 10mm with what I think was maybe watered down 180 gr loads.It was plesant to shoot though.
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Guest myonlyvice

It has been recommended to me to check out the .45s by Les Baer, Ed Brown, or Bill Wilson. I believe these are the names. Supposedly, these will be accurate out of the box even at ranges over 50 yds. Can anybody confirm this?

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Woudln't doubt it but you'd be spending upwards of 1G atleast with all of those namesWhile the 4506 tops out at about $900 while a 645 is about $500 and a a good kimber isnt out of the smith's ranges either.It's like anything else you just have to try the trigger out on all of them an see what suits you best.

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Indeed' date=' that was one of the key things about bren, the bushing was made to be part of the slide itself rather than a separate part like it is on the 1911 for a stock tighter fit for that very same reasonAfter all the military 1911's were made to be loose so they went off all the time.I have to admit I dont have that much experence shooting 10mm, but I have shot a glock 10mm with what I think was maybe watered down 180 gr loads.It was plesant to shoot though.[/quote']The barrel bushing on the Bren Ten was a separate part, threaded into the slide, both to locate the muzzle and to retain the front sight, which was meant to be an interchangeable part. During testing, the bushing would loosen, so a roll-pin was put through the sight and bushing to make sure both stayed in place; in that sense, the bushing was fixed, as it could no longer be readily unscrewed. The "castellated" appearance of the bushing was to allow use of the magazine floor plate as a tool to remove it. The new Vltor Bren apparently has a fixed bushing, but retains the characteristic appearance of the original.Full-power 10mm - 200 grain bullet at 1200 feet per second - has plenty of punch on both ends. Typical 200gr. .45 ACP loads are traveling at about 950-1000fps, so the recoil is proportionately less. Anyone interested in the development of the Bren Ten and the 10mm cartridge should read Bren Ten/Heir Apparent. I'm reading it for the third time, while waiting for the Vltor Bren to hit the market.
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It has been recommended to me to check out the .45s by Les Baer' date=' Ed Brown, or Bill Wilson. I believe these are the names. Supposedly, these will be accurate out of the box even at ranges over 50 yds. Can anybody confirm this?[/quote']Les Baer offers a "1.5 inch" option, which guarantees that the gun has shot a 1.5", 5-shot group at 50 yards; standard accuracy is 3" @ 50yds. Baers, Browns and Wilsons generally cost $2000-$3000. It's not uncommon for regular production 1911s from Colt, Kimber, Springfield Armory, et al. in the $1000 price range, to shoot 1.5"-2.5" groups at 25 yards, which is a lot more accurate than most shooters are able to exploit.
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I am not sure where my commentaries will fit in here, but here it goes.I always loved the stainless steel, shiny, durable .45s autos and the full size .357 revolvers. That is why I have a S&W 645, 4506, and 4586, plus a colt python and S&W 686.I questioned the glock from day one. However, after test firing a 9 mm at the range, I was sold on minimal recoil, decent accuracy, high capacity clips, low maintenance and best of all cost and availability of parts.I still was not sold on the 9 mm, since many people on drugs have survived shots from 9 mm, especially if they are on crack, cocaine, pcp, etc.However, I did invest in a Full size Glock 21, in .45 cal. It holds 13 +1 rounds, is light, and does not recoil like a traditional .45. I invested in a decent trigger job, 3.5 lb disconnector, new recoil spring, LPA adjustable sights, and most of all, a new barstol barrel.It may not be the coolest looking gun out there or the most accurate, especially in .45, but it has proven itself in combat, police work, special ops, etc, and a fractional of the cost of many other models, while being a forbidable weapon, that can survive sand, water, extreme abuse, and still fire.I have shot the glock 20, in 10 mm, and even its recoil is not that bad and is a formidable weapon as well.What I am saying here is that the S&W stainless steel autos will always hold a special place with me, among with my S&W 645, but the glock will always be considered top choice weapon.It would be a great first weapon to own, due its low cost, and unlimited accessories, and reliability.My 2 cents worth.

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My former agency is looking to piggyback on another agency's order for Glock 19s'. I do shoot Glocks and recently got lucky at a GSSF Match and won a random certificate and decided to order a Glock 21SF. While I too have a 645 and a 4506 I recognize they are heavy with their steel frames. I like to think a modern day "Sonny" would look hard at getting a 20SF or 21SF although I believe the 20SF in 10MM would win out.:D

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My former agency is looking to piggyback on another agency's order for Glock 19s'. I do shoot Glocks and recently got lucky at a GSSF Match and won a random certificate and decided to order a Glock 21SF. While I too have a 645 and a 4506 I recognize they are heavy with their steel frames. I like to think a modern day "Sonny" would look hard at getting a 20SF or 21SF although I believe the 20SF in 10MM would win out.:D

I agree. The 10 MM rules the roost. I keep debating whether to add a 10 mm to the collection and if so, should I buy the Glock 20, vs the S&W 1006?
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FWIW: I believe the S&W 1006 in 10mm is what the FBI went to for a few years ago back in the 90's. I also believe today they used Glock 22 & 23's in .40 cal. I think some of the agents with small hands and female agents complained about the size and recoil of the 1006. I think they went to Sig 9mm after that but can't be sure.

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That sounds correct about the change from the 1006, by the FBI to a smaller calibre, probably the .40 calibre, due to the complaints of the FBI agents.The FBI went to the 10 mm due to lack of stopping power of the 9 mm, during a sting that went bad, when the criminals shot by the 9 mm were not phased by the round.the .40 calibre is a cut down version of the 10 mm, and has close to the stopping power of the .45 while having the capacity of the 9 mm.

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