Too much, too late

[Tom]

This episode is a tough one with less interesting locations but let´s give it a try: The teaser shows a lot of LA locations from stock footage (liquor stores, etc.). At the end of the teaser, we see the house of Yvonne, Valerie´s friend. It´s hardly on screen and hard to find, but there are some clues: it is an L-shaped building, behind it is a much longer building (could be yellow) and the street seems to be behind the house (Tubbs stops his caddy on the backyard and Swayne escapes on the other side of the house with his car parked on the street). My best guess is this house in Coconut Grove based on two clues: first, it looks not like houses on Miami Beach; secondly, another location in this ep was in Coconut Grove, see belowTubbs and Valerie look for Lynette. They meet at the Betsy Hotel 1440 Ocean Drive, Miami Beach where Valerie is staying. The love scenes and dinner scenes in this ep could have been shot inside or shot in Greenwich studios. Now it is called Betsy only and the interior includin facade has been renovated and partly remodelled. Nevertheless, this location is clearly the Betsy. It is located next to the building/alley where Trudy and Sandy Dyson met in "Asian Cut".http://maps.google.at/maps?hl=de&q=betsy&ie=UTF8&t=h&radius=0.13&sll=25.786831,-80.129642&sspn=0.001821,0.003428&split=1&rq=1&ev=zi&hq=betsy&hnear=&ll=25.787744,-80.129642&spn=0,0.003428&z=18&layer=c&cbll=25.786546,-80.129541&panoid=9zOQIS8CPuRZieqr9T7nZQ&cbp=12,256.24,,0,-1.9At one time, they show again Raouls 19850 Santa Monica Bvd in LA as exterior. That´s stock footage as used in "Walk alone" and "Freefall" The playground: Valerie says she thinks Lynette is on a playground at 5th Street and Tubbs says it´s gonna take an hour to get there. The 5th Street clue is of course wrong but Tubbs is right. I never thought I would find the playground because it is only very short on screen and they mostly used close-ups. But there is an decisive clue while Tubbs and Valerie cross the park. In the park are some mushroom shaped concrete sculptures. When recognizing this, it took only 1 minute to find the park. That´s Elizabeth Virrick Park at 3255 Plaza Street, Coconut Grove. This park was already used in "The Fix" when Crockett met Judge Berguson and is in a bad hood. Archie Ellis lived only a few blocks away in "The good collar".Here is a link that proofs that this park was the location used. The mushrooms have painted colorfully since, everything else is the same as March 1989. http://maps.google.at/maps?q=elizabeth+virrick+park&hl=de&gl=at&ie=UTF8&hq=elizabeth+virrick+park&hnear=&radius=15000&ll=25.731804,-80.250739&spn=0,0.001714&t=h&z=19&layer=c&cbll=25.731498,-80.250996&panoid=0CFRDwEirxVOpQSotDK1Ig&cbp=12,172.74,,1,3.17Tubbs and Valerie enter the playground on the north side of the Park which is close to Day Ave. The car passing by in the ep is running on Day Ave. Now you know why I speculated above that Yvonne´s house is in Coconut Grove. I don´t believe that the whole cast&crew travelled to Coconut Grove only to shoot 10 seconds of footage when all other locations are in South Beach. I could not find Yvonne´s house yet, but I will scan the neighborhood of the playground carefully as this is our best clue. Otherwise, we´ll never find the house. There are no specific clues and it is only shown in a night scene.Izzy´s new dancing scam on the beach I guess this was filmed on the beach in front of the Betsy.The bar where Crockett and Tubbs met. No clue, honestly. Only close-ups and a glass brick wall. Not enough calories for a search.The crack house is a mystery. The front door is only shown partly, there is a vertical neon sign "...EY" next to the door. Could be South Beach. The police building where Lynette cannot identify Swayne and Crockett/Tubbs argue when leaving the building is Miami Beach Police 1100 Washington Ave, Miami Beach. Across the street is a good diner where I used to eat lots of times.Switek´s apartment is the same as always (Made for each other, Hard knocks). He kidnaps the tow car and some creditors visit him. Oceanic Breeze Apartments 7615 Harding Ave, Miami Beach.

[Tommy Vercetti]

Tubbs and Valerie look for Lynette. They meet at the Betsy Hotel 1440 Ocean Drive' date=' Miami Beach where Valerie is staying. This is incorrect. It looks like the Betsy but it isn't it. Valerie's hotel is actually located on 5th Street and Ocean DriveHere's a photo I took of it:[img']http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii66/marc-gta/Miami2009091.jpg

[Tom]

http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii66/marc-gta/Miami2009091.jpg

Thanks, Tommy Vercetti! I noticed the difference in the facade, but I thought this was due to renovation.

[Matt5]

Izzy's dancing scam is yet to be confirmed but looks like a wide stretch of beach opposite the Betsy Ross area ( similar area but further down to stretch used for the dream sequence in "Mirror Image" ) - there is also an outdoor cafe that C&T meet Valerie at which looks like a beach cafe - no clues on that one either .!?:DTom - Just because a short scene , like the park one , is shot don't completely assume that other locations were in Coconut Grove - this short scene could have been shot by a minimal 2nd unit for example . MV often did shoot in the same areas but other times they didn't there didnt seem to be a logic behind the location shooting at times ! - however on this occasion it does look like that house is in a similar area to "The Good Collar" house - same look etc

[Tom]

Izzy's dancing scam is yet to be confirmed but looks like a wide stretch of beach opposite the Betsy Ross area ( similar area but further down to stretch used for the dream sequence in "Mirror Image" ) - there is also an outdoor cafe that C&T meet Valerie at which looks like a beach cafe - no clues on that one either .!?:DTom - Just because a short scene ' date=' like the park one , is shot don't completely assume that other locations were in Coconut Grove - this short scene could have been shot by a minimal 2nd unit for example . MV often did shoot in the same areas but other times they didn't there didnt seem to be a logic behind the location shooting at times ! - however on this occasion it does look like that house is in a similar area to "The Good Collar" house - same look etc[/quote'] yep, I know that´s not sure but it´s the best shot we got. Put yourself in the location department´s shoes for one moment. To find a playground for one short sequence is nothing special. They could have used any other playground in South Beach with less time and money (bear in mind that even if it was a 2nd unit shoot only they needed authority approval, police protection, etc. etc). Yvonne´s house was the priority location to find, a house that looks poor but is a hood that´s safe enough to shoot in. For the scenes in Yvonnes house, they needed Pam Grier, PMT, J Toles Bay, CCH Pounder and the girl plus crew. Thus, for me it´s a 90% probability that this house is somewhere near the playground. The same MO was used in "Good Collar", they needed to find the right house fo Archie´s aunt, the playground where they met Count Walker was not key, it could have been somewhere else but it was convenient to have it next block. That´s my assumption of their MO based on many production notes from MV episodes that I have studied carefully.

[Tom]

Coincidence sometimes help. When searching for another location, I found out that many scenes of this ep were shot in the Mayfair complex in Coconut Grove (Mayfair Hotel, 3000 Florida Ave and Mayfair in the Grove Mall, 2911 Grand Ave). This makes sense because the park where they found Lynette is nearby. Additional proof is the report of our member DJAngel who was present when they shot this episode.So far, I identified that the following scenes were shot for sure at Mayfair:- Bar scene Crockett/Tubbs (Izzy shows up later). I was not able to pinpoint the exact location within the complex, but my best guess is "Faces in the Grove", which was a club in the second floor of the Mall (which has been closed/remodelled since) and has been used by the VICE crew for parties. Another possibility is the restaurant of the Mayfair Hotel (but it has been remodelled too and thus comparisons are difficult). But the arches and patterns on the walls in the establishing shot of the bar clearly show that this scene was inside the mayfair.- Switek makes his bet on the phone and drives away. This has been shot at the intersection of Florida Ave and Rice Streethttp://maps.google.at/maps?q=mayfair+hotel+coconut+grove&hl=de&ll=25.729096,-80.24045&spn=0.000904,0.003428&sll=25.729052,-80.241351&sspn=0.000904,0.003428&radius=0.13&t=h&filter=0&layer=c&cbll=25.729097,-80.240449&panoid=tCBmyBYupO6KRXPVOqbs6w&cbp=11,207.01,,0,-1.97&z=18Some has changed since then (for example, the elevated area in front of the fountain), but the unique arches to the right and the fountain in the middle gave it away. Switek´s car was parked in front of the fountain and he was driving off to the east.Scene that were likely shot there but I am not sure about:- Tubbs/Valerie: dinner and proposal scenes. Valerie, Tubbs, Crockett sitting at a table and the camera is moving around them (There are some distinctive elevated rails, but I could not find such in the Mayfair complex). After some searching on Bing, I found the seating area. It´s the backyard of 469 Ocean Drive, Miami Beach which posed as Valerie´s Hotel. The following link shows the area. Crockett, Tubbs and Valerie sat exactly under the blue-white striped sun-roof (see also picture).http://www.bing.com/maps/?v=2&cp=n8w2tg89p4df&lvl=20.271296306933&dir=5.286790132187816&sty=b&form=LMLTCCThe teaser of "Jack of all Trades" has also been shot inside the complex (see separate thread).P.S. I haven´t found Yvonne´s house yet although scanning the area around Virrick Park. I am sure that Switek´s anonymous gambler´s meet was filmed inside a church in the area. Most likely at 3481 Hibiscus Street (used in God´s work and Over the line) or at 3535 Plaza Street (used in The afternoon plane, but gone now). Some unused lots in the area indicate that houses may have been demolished (Hurricane Andrew?)

[Matt5]

yep' date=' I know that´s not sure but it´s the best shot we got. Put yourself in the location department´s shoes for one moment. To find a playground for one short sequence is nothing special. They could have used any other playground in South Beach with less time and money (bear in mind that even if it was a 2nd unit shoot only they needed authority approval, police protection, etc. etc). Yvonne´s house was the priority location to find, a house that looks poor but is a hood that´s safe enough to shoot in. For the scenes in Yvonnes house, they needed Pam Grier, PMT, J Toles Bay, CCH Pounder and the girl plus crew. Thus, for me it´s a 90% probability that this house is somewhere near the playground. The same MO was used in "Good Collar", they needed to find the right house fo Archie´s aunt, the playground where they met Count Walker was not key, it could have been somewhere else but it was convenient to have it next block. That´s my assumption of their MO based on many production notes from MV episodes that I have studied carefully.[/quote']Great work Tom particularly re. the moving camera scene of C&T and Val at the cafe/ beach side bar which was Woody 's on the Beach at one time wasn't it .? They filmed around this hotel / area a lot in the latter part of Season 5 it would seem . They also had the wrap party here for the cast in Season 5 in 1989.

[Tom]

Great work Tom particularly re. the moving camera scene of C&T and Val at the cafe/ beach side bar which was Woody 's on the Beach at one time wasn't it .? They filmed around this hotel / area a lot in the latter part of Season 5 it would seem . They also had the wrap party here for the cast in Season 5 in 1989.

Interesting question. Woody´s was located at 455 Ocean Drive, which is in fact the same building as Valerie´s Hotel (469 Ocean Dr). Woody´s was opened in late87/early88 and closed in 1990 as far a I remember. At the time of filming this episode, Woody´s must have been there, that´s right.P.S. Woody´s was used in "Baseballs of Death" and "Hard Knocks", but not in "Borrasca" as we previously thought. In Borrasca, they used the "Paris Moderne", a club located at 550 Washington Ave. It was opened in 1988 and closed one year later.

[Matt5]

Interesting question. Woody´s was located at 455 Ocean Drive' date=' which is in fact the same building as Valerie´s Hotel (469 Ocean Dr). Woody´s was opened in late87/early88 and closed in 1990 as far a I remember. At the time of filming this episode, Woody´s must have been there, that´s right.P.S. Woody´s was used in "Baseballs of Death" and "Hard Knocks", but not in "Borrasca" as we previously thought. In Borrasca, they used the "Paris Moderne", a club located at 550 Washington Ave. It was opened in 1988 and closed one year later.[/quote'] Interesting info . Strange they used an est shot of The Betsy Ross - but her hotel was actual the other end of Ocean Dr.

[Matt5]

http://maps.google.at/maps?q=mayfair+hotel+coconut+grove&hl=de&ll=25.729096,-80.24045&spn=0.000904,0.003428&sll=25.729052,-80.241351&sspn=0.000904,0.003428&radius=0.13&t=h&filter=0&layer=c&cbll=25.729097,-80.240449&panoid=tCBmyBYupO6KRXPVOqbs6w&cbp=11,207.01,,0,-1.97&z=18Some has changed since then (for example, the elevated area in front of the fountain), but the unique arches to the right and the fountain in the middle gave it away. Switek´s car was parked in front of the fountain and he was driving off to the east.Scene that were likely shot there but I am not sure about:- Tubbs/Valerie: dinner and proposal scenes. Valerie, Tubbs, Crockett sitting at a table and the camera is moving around them (There are some distinctive elevated rails, but I could not find such in the Mayfair complex). After some searching on Bing, I found the seating area. It´s the backyard of 469 Ocean Drive, Miami Beach which posed as Valerie´s Hotel. The following link shows the area. Crockett, Tubbs and Valerie sat exactly under the blue-white striped sun-roof (see also picture).http://www.bing.com/maps/?v=2&cp=n8w2tg89p4df&lvl=20.271296306933&dir=5.286790132187816&sty=b&form=LMLTCCThe teaser of "Jack of all Trades" has also been shot inside the complex (see separate thread).P.S. I haven´t found Yvonne´s house yet although scanning the area around Virrick Park. I am sure that Switek´s anonymous gambler´s meet was filmed inside a church in the area. Most likely at 3481 Hibiscus Street (used in God´s work and Over the line) or at 3535 Plaza Street (used in The afternoon plane, but gone now). Some unused lots in the area indicate that houses may have been demolished (Hurricane Andrew?)

I went to highend The Savoy Hotel a few days ago at 425 - 455 ( former Woodys on the Beach ) location and that is confirmed matches up directly where C&T meet Valerie for a coffee.:DThere was a big bar here in 1989 - and it wouldnt suprise me if the C&T argument at the bar was also filmed here.

[Matt5]

The tightly shot C&T walking out the police station was also shot at Miami Beach Police Station at 1100 Washington Avenue . It shot so distinctively from a lighting post on Washington Avenue but matches perfectly.:done:

[Tom]

I went to highend The Savoy Hotel a few days ago at 425 - 455 ( former Woodys on the Beach ) location and that is confirmed matches up directly where C&T meet Valerie for a coffee.:DThere was a big bar here in 1989 - and it wouldnt suprise me if the C&T argument at the bar was also filmed here.

Thanks for the confirmation and the onsite-visit!The bar scenes with C&T and Izzy in TMTL were definetely shot inside the Woody´s at 455 Ocean Drive. If you watch other scenes shot on this location carefully (e.g. in Hard Knocks), you will see a match with the colorful glass tiles visible in the background.

[miamijimf]

The tightly shot C&T walking out the police station was also shot at Miami Beach Police Station at 1100 Washington Avenue . It shot so distinctively from a lighting post on Washington Avenue but matches perfectly.:done:

Good work Matt, don't forget to take a lot of pictures.

[Pink Flaming0]

The tightly shot C&T walking out the police station was also shot at Miami Beach Police Station at 1100 Washington Avenue . It shot so distinctively from a lighting post on Washington Avenue but matches perfectly.:done:

Good work, Matt !

[Matt5]

On re-watching this episode last nite - The Savoy site at 455 Ocean Drive ( former "Woody's on the Beach" ) - I could see the entrance of the lobby but the large bar area does not exist anymore but are seperate rooms. The long corridor Tubbs walks down is still there. Still very cool to visit this location .

[airtommy]

In the teaser they show some street footage.  At about 00:16 we see the "Bluebird Market".  This footage must have been taken from the movie "Devil In a Blue Dress":
 

The Forties black centre of LA’s ‘Central Avenue, at 34th Street’ was strikingly recreated in a frequently used, and run-down, area of downtown Los Angeles, along four blocks of Main Street, around the Regent Theater, 448 South Main Street.  As few photographs of Central Avenue survive, the store names, Lovejoy’s Breakfast Club, Bluebird Market, Waters and Sons Record Shop, were taken from a period directory of black businesses.

 
http://www.movie-locations.com/movies/d/Devil_In_A_Blue_Dress.html

[C Glide]

Interesting.

[airtommy]

Some more details on Los Angeles' Regent Theater, which is over 100 years old and has recently been revived:

 

https://urbandiachrony.wordpress.com/2014/12/01/the-regent-theater-448-south-main-street-c-2005-2014/

 

https://sites.google.com/site/downtownlosangelestheatres/regent-theatre

[Matt5]

Some more details on Los Angeles' Regent Theater, which is over 100 years old and has recently been revived:

 

https://urbandiachrony.wordpress.com/2014/12/01/the-regent-theater-448-south-main-street-c-2005-2014/

 

https://sites.google.com/site/downtownlosangelestheatres/regent-theatre

 

Great location !!

[Matt5]

I took this 2017 recreation shot of the police station establishing shot ( Miami Beach) from this March 1989 filmed episode ( aired January 1990)

 

[airtommy]

Nice re-creation photo!  I don't like that they got rid of the Art Deco glass bricks.  

[Matt5]

Yes you're right ! I hadn't noticed 

They filmed quite a lot here Seasons 4 and 5. 

I believe it was built in 1987 

[Matt5]

Stan was parked here as he was on the payphone placing the bet - filmed at the back of the Mayfair Hotel in Coconut Grove on Rice St/ Florida Ave  (recycled in "Freefall") 

[Matt5]

On 10/25/2015 at 3:53 AM, airtommy said:

In the teaser they show some street footage.  At about 00:16 we see the "Bluebird Market".  This footage must have been taken from the movie "Devil In a Blue Dress":
 

 
http://www.movie-locations.com/movies/d/Devil_In_A_Blue_Dress.html

This would be the area Today opposite the Regent Theatre on South Main in Dowtown LA .  Winston/S Main

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@34.0474687,-118.2478221,3a,75y,163.13h,95.16t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sae8-Eb30cVla7uPFecRx8g!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!6m1!1e1

[Matt5]

We know the Bluebird Market and Regent Theatre on South Main St in Downtown LA were next door to each other and the google capture below under the screen caps from the teaser show how the Bluebird Market (now The Love Song) would look Today . The camera was moving down South Main towards Winston St.

Edited May 16, 2017 by Matt5