Spyder

when did MV jump the shark for you?

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Spyder

Sorry for the double posting, people, still trying to figure out how to do a poll.At what point did Miami Vice lose its vibe for you? Many people have debated the various turning points over five years when the show just didn't have the same magic it once started with.Me, I say NEVER. In fact, I'm with PMT that it could have gone on for another eight years.

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Icemanmike

If my memory serves me right, I was in my early 20's and Vice was in it's fourth season and we all must admit, season four had some real doosies that made me hang it up at that time...Just too hard to follow and make sence of. At that time, I really missed the earlier seasons and had 'other' interests(women) and wasn't as a fashion hound as I am today...Ah, maturity and I'm blessed with having all five seasons on disc...Looking back, NBC unplugged this way too soon...Mike

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MrsEvanFreed

When Irish Eyes Are Crying...At this point, Fonzie has strapped on his skiis and slowly begins to approach the ramp. This season was hit/miss overall, the best eppys being grouped together.Walk AloneThe Good CollarShadow in the Dark.Forgive us Our Debts Down for the Count pts 1-2Book ended by Gina centered episodes, one being the worst season premiere. The other a mediocre finale.With that said, Fonzie officially became AIRBORNE November 13 1987.

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Guest neworder

Nice thread and a topic about Miami Vice that fascinates me. It fascinates me because I haven't watched any other TV show that goes from complete amazement to complete ridicule within such a short space of time. It's also interesting because even when the producers must have realised things were going down the toilet, they continued to do the things that caused the ratings drop in the first place. I.e the production of Cows of October following Missing Hours. For me Missing Hours is the point where MV jumps the shark. MV was teasing with us at the end of Season 3 and start of Season 4 with Viking Bikers, Showbiz and the Big Thaw, that said I can live with the Big Thaw. Showbiz in particular was the lowest point of the series before Missing Hours. Now although it's terrible as a Miami Vice episode, it's within believable boundaries as a storyline. Missing Hours is just out of this world in terms of a cop show storyline, it's mental. So Miami Vice for me jumps the shark with Missing Hours. With any other TV show, producers would probably try to save the show quickly to pick up ratings and eventually, the Burnett trilogy came along. But viewers are tested too much in Season 4. We have Missing Hours, followed by the Marriage which is nearly as bad in terms of jumping the shark, then you have Cows of October and to finish it off, they made Bullet for Crockett, an episode to remind people how brilliant and revolutionary Vice once was and how mixed it had become.Season 5 for me is an improvement, but is not without controversy. However, these crap episodes were mostly produced after the show had been officially cancelled so it wasn't jumping a shark so to speak. Finally, I would like to tick the Miami Vice shouldn't have been cancelled box but I can't. I believe a 6th Season could've been squeezed out of Miami Vice but honestly, no more than that in my eyes. There's only so many Vice related stories you can tell. For me, most TV's shows can't really last more than 6 seasons, except 24 where 8 was perfect. So yes. Miami Vice jumped the shark with Missing Hours, then had several other attempts throughout Season 4.

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Tommy Vercetti

I think Vice jumped the shark but then recovered and got good again.The shark jumpage occured with Missing Hours. An atrocity of epic proportions. Season 4 wallowed in mediocrity and crapiness for some time after it but then quality came back with a vengeance at the end of the season, first with Deliver Us From Evil and then with the masterpiece Mirror Image. Then season 5 was back on form. It's a great season that I'm a big fan of.

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Christine

I think that all TV shows have stronger, less stronger, and maybe ridiculous or bad eps, but I agree with spyder: For me, MV could have gone on for more years.

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Spyder
When Irish Eyes Are Crying...At this point' date=' Fonzie has strapped on his skiis and slowly begins to approach the ramp. This season was hit/miss overall, the best eppys being grouped together.Walk AloneThe Good CollarShadow in the Dark.Forgive us Our Debts Down for the Count pts 1-2Book ended by Gina centered episodes, one being the worst season premiere. The other a mediocre finale.With that said, Fonzie officially became AIRBORNE November 13 1987.[/quote'] If MV had only gone for the first two seasons, and they stopped before Season 3, I wonder if the show would have become as legendary as it is today. Maybe more so, because it'd be viewed as a brief, yet flawless, series, during its run.

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MrsEvanFreed
If MV had only gone for the first two seasons' date=' and they stopped before Season 3, I wonder if the show would have become as legendary as it is today. Maybe more so, because it'd be viewed as a brief, yet flawless, series, during its run.[/quote'] Had that happened, MV would've been what's known as Brilliant But Cancelled.Three examples of such are NBC's Boomtown, Fox's Profit and CBS's EZ Streets.

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Guest Don
Nice thread and a topic about Miami Vice that fascinates me. It fascinates me because I haven't watched any other TV show that goes from complete amazement to complete ridicule within such a short space of time. It's also interesting because even when the producers must have realised things were going down the toilet' date=' they continued to do the things that caused the ratings drop in the first place. I.e the production of Cows of October following Missing Hours. For me Missing Hours is the point where MV jumps the shark. MV was teasing with us at the end of Season 3 and start of Season 4 with Viking Bikers, Showbiz and the Big Thaw, that said I can live with the Big Thaw. Showbiz in particular was the lowest point of the series before Missing Hours. Now although it's terrible as a Miami Vice episode, it's within believable boundaries as a storyline. Missing Hours is just out of this world in terms of a cop show storyline, it's mental. So Miami Vice for me jumps the shark with Missing Hours. With any other TV show, producers would probably try to save the show quickly to pick up ratings and eventually, the Burnett trilogy came along. But viewers are tested too much in Season 4. We have Missing Hours, followed by the Marriage which is nearly as bad in terms of jumping the shark, then you have Cows of October and to finish it off, they made Bullet for Crockett, an episode to remind people how brilliant and revolutionary Vice once was and how mixed it had become.Season 5 for me is an improvement, but is not without controversy. However, these crap episodes were mostly produced after the show had been officially cancelled so it wasn't jumping a shark so to speak. Finally, I would like to tick the Miami Vice shouldn't have been cancelled box but I can't. I believe a 6th Season could've been squeezed out of Miami Vice but honestly, no more than that in my eyes. There's only so many Vice related stories you can tell. For me, most TV's shows can't really last more than 6 seasons, except 24 where 8 was perfect. So yes. Miami Vice jumped the shark with Missing Hours, then had several other attempts throughout Season 4.[/quote'] +1 on this post. Exactly my point of view. That’s why I keep watching season 1 and 2, sometimes 3. 4 and 5 are dead for me; they remind me more of the 90s and I’m a 80s fan.

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ripperace

For me, Missing Hours was just too out there for a Vice episode. Then you had the episodes that tried to add comic tones that flunked. The whole episode with the frozen Reggae singer, and the one about the cows were other stinkers IMO. By the end of season four, it did get better, and I actually liked the episodes that Sonny thought he was Burnett. Season five had some stinkers too, but not as bad as season four. I just wonder what could have been had Micheal Mann been more involved. It's the old analogy of not fixing something that isn't broke. The original feel was great, but when they tried to be all things to all people, it had it's lame points. Why they even entertained the thought of a UFO episode is beyond me. Missing Hours is one that I generally skip over. So to me, that's when it lost it's edge. It could have evolved back to what it was, and I think it could have gone on had they stuck with the original formula. Jan Hammer leaving also made no sense. While it had some great episodes, Mr. Hammers music not being there was something that just made it feel different. His music was always there from the beginning, and it not being there in season five was just kind of weird.Ripper

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Lar

I voted for "Missing Hours" as the jumping point, but here's the thing: "Jumping The Shark" generally refers to a point of no return, where you can't seriously enjoy the show anymore, either because of that one incident and/or an all-around slide in quality. There's little doubt in my mind that "Missing Hours" is not only the nadir of MV, but also an ep that's practically offensive to loyal fans, and "The Cows of October" isn't far behind it, either.BUT, while those are undoubtedly series lowpoints (and the fourth season in general is seriously uneven, although it has it's moments and there are indeed good episodes in that year), MV rebounded spectacularly, IMO, in the fifth season. Beginning with the Burnett saga at the end of S4 and start of S5 (a storyline that, on paper, sounds seriously contrived, but actually proved to be quite captivating), MV definitely went out on an upswing. Indeed, I absolutely love most of that fifth season, with a good chunk of my all-time favorite episodes coming from that year. The series was darker, more desperate, more hopeless, with Tim Truman's music being a perfect score. The super-dark storylines and overall look and feel of the season actually foreshadowed much of the dramatic television that would be found going into the 1990's ("Asian Cut" and "Too Much, Too Late" are good examples). I've always said it was like MV decided to be groundbreaking one last time before going out. Oh sure, people will always point out "Leap of Faith" and "Miracle Man" as lowpoints, and yeah, they are bad, but the rest of S5 is, in my eyes, overwhelmingly good. And that finale? Just terrific. So, yes, I think MV jumped the shark, but it was one of those rare shows that managed to jump back, even if far fewer people were watching at that point.All in my opinion, of course.

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Stinger390X

I found Missing hours to be far too bizarre for MV themes and I wasn't sure if I was watching MV or The X-files? :)I was not impressed with Miracle Man either as quite a few other S5 episodes were weak or boring. The music was great but there were good moments in S5 as well only that I found they worked very hard to keep interest in the series. I think they were running low on ideas and the plot scheme had run it's course...............

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CharlieGlide

Interesting question and I never really thought about it. The show never jumped the shark for me, and I don't say that defensively. I just found that even the last episodes were intriguing and offered something of value. Missing Hours was a total mess, but it wasn't really repeated in future episodes. I think that was just a one-off where a bad story was allowed to go through and probably Olivia Brown was asking for more screen time so they did this episode. I don't know what episode came after, but I know that it wasn't nearly as bad.I liked how the writers kept the show interesting even while the ideas were drying up. I appreciated how Stan became a problem gambler, for example, and how his character became very dark. I like how both Crockett and Tubbs became more and more cynical about the benefit of the work they were doing in the last two seasons. These are themes that the writers really had to work at in order to incorporate them into the show. It was awesome how Castillo was always, well, Castillo. No Missing Hours for him. The show took new paths to stay fresh. Not always succesfully, but almost always in an interesting way. For me, there was no jumping of the shark, but it's worth the discussion.

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aussiefan

Have to say, that for me, it never really got bad. I think, like all things it evolved. Life evolves, changes and takes us in new directions over time but we are still ourselves. So like life itself, Vice evolved and took new directions, most times good and a few times not so good. I think season 4 was the weakest of all, and "missing hours" was a total clanger, but it did come back in season 5.I think it could have gone for a few more seasons but maybe it is best to finish while, I believe, it was still strong.Watched "lombard" last night. About to go and watch "No Exit" Love Miami Vice.

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ripperace
It was awesome how Castillo was always' date=' well, Castillo. No Missing Hours for him. [/quote']It's actually interesting that you mention episodes with Castillo. The ones that centered around him were some of the best IMO. He was such a unique character. He held a sense of mystique because he had such a diverse background. I always loved the episodes where you got to find out more about him.Ripper

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ViceFanMan
I agree with PMT too, and others here...that "MV" could have gone on much longer than it did! It never "jumped the shark", so-to-speak, for me and for the most part I loved it all. I understand that some of the actors were wanting to move on (DJ and EJO--plus from what I've read and learned over the years they did not get along), ratings were down, and the "feel" of the show was on "rocky" ground towards the end.I also realize that pathetic episodes like "Missing Hours" and "Cows of October" probably were the cause of some of the low ratings. :thumbsdown: Season 5 also was somewhat bizarre...and was just kind of out-there. As Olivia Brown (Trudy) once stated, towards the end they were trying to re-invent the show to gain back ratings and it just didn't quite make it. :cry:But, I think that if all the actors had wanted to stay, NBC had given it another season (possibly 2), they got better writers again (or the current ones had pulled their heads out of their hineys :p ) & popped out better plots, they brought back some of the pastels (but not necessarily to the extent of the first seasons--as the late 80's and 90's were more about neon than pastel..."Silk Stalkings" on USA was an example of this new 90's color scheme), and everyone really put forth the effort...I truly believe the show could have gone on for several more seasons and gained back lost ratings and/or fans! :thumbsup:

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Kavinsky

With the Feel wasnt there some deal where there was like 2 serious episodes at the beginning of S4 and then suddenly all of the comedy episodes one after the other?and I think there was something about them putting Vice against Dallas back then that badly hurt both shows, it might have been just a perfect storm of everything coming apart at the worst time.but given that and the fact that the simpsons has lasted this long and it started up in 89, along with all of the CSI shows (although Miami got canceled finally last year) I think your right it could have gone on longer.question is would we have wanted it to, you know change with the times? I mean I kinda think Miami Vice would have turned into Bad Boys the TV show really, for better and for worse.

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jpm1

for me the series never jumped over the shark . but maybe this is caused by the fact that i love Miami city a lot . i think that the problem that caused the series to stop was because it was too centered on Crockett's character . but i also think that the producers/scenarists did their best . it was very difficult at that time to make something different

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Vincent Hanna

I think the problem was that the show relied(for better or worse) on high production values. You got michael mann leaving the show halfway through, jan hammer recycling music from season 3 onwards, Don johnson becoming increasingly bored throughout the later seasons etc. It all begins to show. It's impossible to sustain the same level of quality espeically when there are wide leaps in quality in the same season, let alone the whole show.It's a miracle we had so many great episodes as it is. It could have gone all wrong.I think they were on the edge of jumping the shark around season 2 with stories of voodoo and silly stuff & then they finally did it at the end of season 3 with viking bikers, showbiz & revolutions.Contempt of court was a decent serious episode and then season 4 just got more silly as it went along.

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Matt5

Season 3 production values were high - but the stories ( comedy ) stories of Season 4 completely changed the show

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ViceFanMan
I think they were on the edge of jumping the shark around season 2 with stories of voodoo and silly stuff & then they finally did it at the end of season 3 with viking bikers' date=' showbiz & revolutions.Contempt of court was a decent serious episode and then season 4 just got more silly as it went along.[/quote']The first 2 seasons of the show are probably the most popular and remembered--although season 3 is still popular enough, and there were a few episodes "sprinkled" here and there in seasons 4 and 5 that are popular and/or remembered too.But, season 2 was NOT when they decided to, figurately speaking, "jump the shark"! :eek: Season 2 was still in the middle of the show's immense popularity and media hype. "Whatever Works" and "Tale of the Goat" were not silly episodes, nor are they considered by the "majority" of the show's fans as horrible ones. Voodoo and Santaria are practiced and believed by people. Both those episodes depicted that very realistically for the time.Season 3 had a couple "silly" or not that great of episodes I guess...and "Viking Bikers" would be one of those. ;) But, every season has a couple episodes or so that aren't that great. I call them "fillers". :p In my opinion those from season 1 are "Glades" and "Made for Each Other". The only one from season 2 I didn't really think was that great was "The Fix". Season 3's were "Viking Bikers" and "Everybody's In Showbiz". However, the majority of that season is still pretty awesome! :thumbsup: The only thing I didn't truly like about season 3 was when Zito dies. :cry: But, John Diehl was leaving the show so it couldn't be helped. :rolleyes: But, I wish they would have just had him leave instead of killing him off. :thumbsdown: That always leaves the possibility his character could return at some point.Seasons 4 and 5 are not as popular with me as the first 3...but both seasons still have some good episodes and I still love them! I love it all...as it all is still "MIAMI VICE"!! :thumbsup: Again, if all the actors had wanted to stay, NBC pulled their head out of their butt, the writers started putting out scripts like the first 3 seasons again, tied up some old "loose-end" storylines (such as Tubbs' baby and maybe have Crockett and Gina get back together after Caitlin was killed) then I think the show could have gone on for several more seasons! :clap:

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zackcrocker

Well folks, i hope you guys are right, im right in the thick of all that crap in season 4, im still interested to see the change of crockett to burnette which im not up to yet, i may skip some episodes, ive skiped 3 so far, i may pick it up at badge of dishonor, i dont know how much more of this i can take!!!! as for "jumping the Shark" im thinking around big Thaw then missing hours, after that it seems like its goin way down... i kinda wish that had got back on track faster to what "vice" is supposed to be! guns, cars, women and vice! il keep ya updated!

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Matt5

NOT when they decided to, figurately speaking, "jump the shark"! :eek: Season 2 was still in the middle of the show's immense popularity and media hype. "Whatever Works" and "Tale of the Goat" were not silly episodes, nor are they considered by the "majority" of the show's fans as horrible ones. Voodoo and Santaria are practiced and believed by people. Both those episodes depicted that very realistically for the time.Season 3 had a couple "silly" or not that great of episodes I guess...and "Viking Bikers" would be one of those. ;) But, every season has a couple episodes or so that aren't that great. I call them "fillers". :p In my opinion those from season 1 are "Glades" and "Made for Each Other". The only one from season 2 I didn't really think was that great was "The Fix". Season 3's were "Viking Bikers" and "Everybody's In Showbiz". However, the majority of that season is still pretty awesome! :thumbsup: The only thing I didn't truly like about season 3 was when Zito dies. :cry: But, John Diehl was leaving the show so it couldn't be helped. :rolleyes: But, I wish they would have just had him leave instead of killing him off. :thumbsdown: That always leaves the possibility his character could return at some point.Seasons 4 and 5 are not as popular with me as the first 3...but both seasons still have some good episodes and I still love them! I love it all...as it all is still "MIAMI VICE"!! :thumbsup: Again, if all the actors had wanted to stay, NBC pulled their head out of their butt, the writers started putting out scripts like the first 3 seasons again, tied up some old "loose-end" storylines (such as Tubbs' baby and maybe have Crockett and Gina get back together after Caitlin was killed) then I think the show could have gone on for several more seasons! :clap:

Valid points - when the departed mentioned MV jumping the shark in Season 2 that is mad.:D

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Matt5
Well folks' date=' i hope you guys are right, im right in the thick of all that crap in season 4, im still interested to see the change of crockett to burnette which im not up to yet, i may skip some episodes, ive skiped 3 so far, i may pick it up at badge of dishonor, i dont know how much more of this i can take!!!! as for "jumping the Shark" im thinking around big Thaw then missing hours, after that it seems like its goin way down... i kinda wish that had got back on track faster to what "vice" is supposed to be! guns, cars, women and vice! il keep ya updated![/quote']There are some excellent episodes after Missing Hours namely Like a Hurricane, Rock and a Hard Place and Baseballs of Death . :D

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Pink Flaming0

I'm not so sure it "Jumped the Shark", i believe the shows end was a combination of a lot of things, shooting schedule, various weak scripts, time slot moved from year-to-year, etc... Could the show have continued, yes, if these and more issues were addressed and if Micheal Mann would have made the show his only focus, I believe it could have. IMO :thumbsup:

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