Spyder

when did MV jump the shark for you?

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Kavinsky

fair point, I could just see the wheels turning in Don's head when he was steaking out Izzy on the bridge in the Cow episode.

 

like oh god, really? yeah that wasnt acting, that was geniune lol

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BlackJack

For me jumping the shark means the format/premise has become stale. I don't think that happened with vice. The problem was that the writing and production values become toilet. Season 4 was like they gave a bunch of high school film students the reins to the show.

 

Season 6 - write character driven episodes with edgy plotlines that include all cast members and have some kind of a relationship arc to it. Make the show cutting edge fashion, music, style wise. Stop trying to make it funny. Stop trying to write about contemporary issues. Stop trying to reinvent the show. 

 

You could have got another two seasons out of Vice for sure. (I only consider it to have lasted 3 seasons anyway. 4 and 5 don't count).

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Susanna Girl

I never gave up on the show, although there are some very poor episodes.  I loved the amnesia 'mini-series', I thought it revitalized Sonny's character.  But....it just seemed to me that by the end of season 5, it was like...DJ and PMT didn't even want to be there anymore and that feeling came across.  Idk, it was a very surreal time when the last show was over.  I always thought such a successful show would do some sort of reunion, but that never happened. Wish it would.

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Matt5

"Missing Hours" went too far - but came back with some nice episodes after !! :D

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CrockettFan333

"Missing Hours" went too far - but came back with some nice episodes after !! :D

It's my favorite episode.  :evil:

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James

It's my favorite episode.  :evil:

 

You're kidding...   :eek:

It might be the weirdest 48 minutes of TV history.

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Vincent Hanna

Missing hours has gotta be the point of no return. It's not that there weren't good episodes after that. but it was never really the same show that it was in the first 3 seasons.

 

 

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CrockettFan333

You're kidding...   :eek:

It might be the weirdest 48 minutes of TV history.

Maybe it isn't the best episode but it's not so bad like you told. It just matter of taste. Which episode it's your favorite ?

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miamijimf

I never gave up on the show, although there are some very poor episodes.  I loved the amnesia 'mini-series', I thought it revitalized Sonny's character.  But....it just seemed to me that by the end of season 5, it was like...DJ and PMT didn't even want to be there anymore and that feeling came across.  Idk, it was a very surreal time when the last show was over.  I always thought such a successful show would do some sort of reunion, but that never happened. Wish it would.

 

I don't know if we will ever see a reunion but if DJ gets his way you might see him filming in Miami again.  You saw that thread about 2 weeks ago discussing DJ's latest interests- right?  We can always hope.  Anyone see anything new on this subject?   Vice never "jumped the shark" for me but some episodes were far better than others.

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Susanna Girl

I don't know if we will ever see a reunion but if DJ gets his way you might see him filming in Miami again.  You saw that thread about 2 weeks ago discussing DJ's latest interests- right?  We can always hope.  

 

 I'm thrilled with DJ's latest interests, and if anything comes of this, I'll be ecstatic!  Alligator_dances.gif

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Vincent Hanna

I wonder how the show would rate on the greatest of all time chart if it ended after 3 seasons?

 

People would still try to denigrate it for being too 80s-ish but the quality would have been consistent more or less all the way through. Most of time I only act like only the first 3 seasons exist anyway so, It's kinda like the Godfather part 3, you just ignore that crap and don't even recognise it exists.

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Vincent Hanna

bump xD

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COOPER&BURNETT

I may have posted this on here already on one of these pages, but thinking again about it, the UFO light on the Ferarri in MISSING HOURS seems to be when it jumped the shark for me. Perhaps I wrote something different on a different page, but as I'm writing this right now, that's what I'm thinking.

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viceystyle

I can't believe that a show as good as this only got five seasons. That just isn't fair. I know that some of the season 4 and 5 episodes were a bit weird or had sub-par plots, but I feel that NBC killed this show and didn't give it the chance it deserved. It never really "jumped the shark"...there are bad episodes in every series. It just needed to return back to the charm it had in the first two seasons, and the new producer needed to put more effort into it, instead of just not really caring about it. Also, you see these shows out there that are awful yet are still running for years and years. At least Miami Vice had great characters and great setting, which is far more than most series can say themselves these days. It's very unfortunate that it was cut short, and it really feels incomplete. If Michael Mann hadn't left, it would have definitely stayed on for at least a  few more seasons. I don't know if it could have lasted till '96 or '97, because the feel of the 80s was gone by then, but it could have definitely stayed on air till '93. Another four seasons would have been ideal. It would have given us a total of about 195 episodes and they could have done a better finale that had a better sense of completion, so the show won't feel like it died pre-maturely. Even just another three seasons would have been fine. But only five seasons? There was still so much story left, and so much for Crockett and Tubbs and the Miami-Dade County Vice Department to do. Unfair that it was cut short.

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Jerry B.

I don't think the show ever jumped the shark, to me it's always been ups and downs, first seasons included. Sure the overall quality was more consistent in S1 & 2, and in the following seasons we had very low downs, but we had great stories more or less in all of them.

 

To me is not just a matter of quality, but a matter of changing times and "age" of the show. The advertising harvest, which is the only thing that rules television (and a lot more, actually), always asks for something "new", or "surprising" or just "different". To me, it clearly shows in certain episodes, and I'd say, even the Burnett saga is a son of this kind of logic.The good becoming the bad: what's better to shake an audience starting to get used to the characters?

 

Could the show have lasted some seasons after 1989? Maybe. PMT and Olivia Brown say yes. I'm not sure, I remember very well what the turning of the decade was: it was a change. A change of view and perspective towards the future, a change of spirit, a change in fashion, music, cinema and so on. The spirit of the mid-eighties was definitely gone. Sure in the early 90s you could pretend you still were in the 80s, I actually did it for a while. So maybe Miami Vice could have lasted a couple of seasons more, who knows...

 

I'm sure about one thing: whatever the show may have been in the 80s, it would have been something different then.

Edited by Jerry B.
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Vincent Hanna

Unfortunately I can't be as forgiving as you guys, If people in 1988 wanted horrible trash then Miami Vice definitely changed with the times alright, When Season 4 came around with Aliens and frozen rastafarians then the series passed the point of return and became unsalvageable. I think it was more to do with "the star that burns twice as light lives half as long" kind of thing. Shows like CSI and Law Order can run for decades because they're cheaply made and thrive on being rigidly formulaic. "Vice" on the other hand always tried to outdo itself, well in the first 3 seasons anyway. The amount of variables that all need to come together like the talented directors, The budget for the attire, liscenced songs, Jan Hammer, the on location filming, the upkeep of the cars and boats. I guess we should be thankful the show lasted as long as it did because in the hands of a lesser man than Michael mann then it would have capsized immediately.

 

I did a season 3 marathon not that long ago and I was shocked at the difference in production values from the end of season 3 to the beginning of season 4. The magic evaporated somewhere and have no clue where it went because it looks like a completely different show. There's still some good episodes here and there and the Burnett Amnesia episodes are legit great but overall the show becomes a shell of it's former self and it's almost depressing to  compare the glory days like "Smuggler blues" to "Amen send money". etc. If the show ended after 3 seasons it would be rightfully considered as one of the greatest shows of all time.

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viceystyle

I would never call any part of Miami Vice "horrible trash". If you've seen a lot of the stuff that's popular now, then even the worst MV look like gold next to it. So many of these shows out there that have the same ridiculous storyline over and over, annoying, flat characters, dingy bland setting, and contrived trash plots I do understand though that for people who were actually there in the 80s, watching MV during its original run, it would seem that it went downhill the last couple of seasons. But it's all relative. It's like me thinking the music and style of the late 90s was bad, because the horrible crap that's popular now hadn't come out yet. Also, I believe whatever damage they did in seasons 4 and 5 could have been repaired if they'd just given it the effort, instead of NBC deciding to kill the show. The ship could have been saved, but NBC decided to just let it sink, which is unfair. They could have gotten creative and done engaging storylines, the could have focused on the scenery and feel of the show as they had in the first two seasons, there was still a lot that could have been done, unfortunately NBC didn't feel it was worth it. 

I am definitely with PMT and Olivia Brown in that I really believe the show could have and should have continued past 1989. I agree that I can't see it going on till '96, because by that time the atmosphere had changed, but up until 1992 or '93, there was still that pervading eighties atmosphere, and a lot of shows that premiered in the calendar decade still went on till then. Just because the calendar changed from 89 to 90 it doesn't mean that the atmosphere, the style, the culture just disappeared overnight. It continued on for at least another three years or so, and so MV could have kept going till then. Around '92 I can the series wrapping up...perhaps it should have culminated in them killing off Tubbs towards the end of an 8th season, and having the last three or four episodes focus on how it's a culmination of things that happened over the years for Crockett, the last straw that makes him quit being a cop altogether and disappearing or taking the law into his own hands. That would have given the show a sense of finality and completion.

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Vincent Hanna

I don't know, I think the iceberg hit with stuff like the big thaw, missing hours and the sheena easton storyline and it was only a matter of time until the whole thing died completely. Don was disinterested at that point and just wanted to move on. I can only describe episodes like Amen send money and Missing hours as trash and even that doesn't do it justice to explain how horrible they are. I hope Michael Mann puked after watching what his formally great show was reduced to. There are some good ideas but their so excuted poorly, In Amen send money Tubbs gets falsely accused of rape. Now THAT'S brilliant for a vice storyline, But a televangelist played by Brian Dennehy ISN'T a good idea.

 

The only episodes only really worth watching are God's Work, Death and the lady and Mirror Image, Oh and the one where Sheena Easton gets shot but can't think of the name. The rest are garbage and Season 5 has even less episodes that are watchable.

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Crockettt

Season 3 is when Vice jumped the shark for me. Reduced pastels, changed Crockett's wardrobe, Dick Wolf's creepy "ripped from the headlines" stories. This is Miami Vice pal, not Vice & Order.

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Vincent Hanna

I love Season 3, sure some of the stories are a little weird for a cop show but the new style helped revitalise the show. The season 2 look was starting to look stale towards the end and the crappy story lines that were thin as pancake didn't help.

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Spyder

Unfortunately I can't be as forgiving as you guys, If people in 1988 wanted horrible trash then Miami Vice definitely changed with the times alright, When Season 4 came around with Aliens and frozen rastafarians then the series passed the point of return and became unsalvageable. I think it was more to do with "the star that burns twice as light lives half as long" kind of thing. Shows like CSI and Law Order can run for decades because they're cheaply made and thrive on being rigidly formulaic. "Vice" on the other hand always tried to outdo itself, well in the first 3 seasons anyway. The amount of variables that all need to come together like the talented directors, The budget for the attire, liscenced songs, Jan Hammer, the on location filming, the upkeep of the cars and boats. I guess we should be thankful the show lasted as long as it did because in the hands of a lesser man than Michael mann then it would have capsized immediately.

 

I did a season 3 marathon not that long ago and I was shocked at the difference in production values from the end of season 3 to the beginning of season 4. The magic evaporated somewhere and have no clue where it went because it looks like a completely different show. There's still some good episodes here and there and the Burnett Amnesia episodes are legit great but overall the show becomes a shell of it's former self and it's almost depressing to  compare the glory days like "Smuggler blues" to "Amen send money". etc. If the show ended after 3 seasons it would be rightfully considered as one of the greatest shows of all time.

 

It was never a show that was critically acclaimed. It will always be a "Style over substance" series even though it had more substance than most of the shows from today that MV influenced. Ironic! 

 

In my opinion, it was obvious that Dick Wolf had no respect for the show from the very start. Why take on the project, then? He went on to do his own series anyway (Law & Order); why ruin Vice in the meantime?

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Vincent Hanna

wow I was really in a bad mood after watching those season 4 episodes. You can taste the vitriol from here.  :)

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Noggie

Season 4 definitely hurt the series but I think the feeling that the show had to be "shaken up" in years 3 & 4 started the show on a downward path. Altering the look changed the feel of the show. I grew up on THE SIX MILLION DOLLAR MAN in the 70's. For one season, Lee Majors grew a mustache & even though nothing else changed, his character feels different. Changing the look of Vice so DRASTICALLY altered the feel of the show. I could understand tweaks to the wardrobe but changing the entire color scheme was an odd call. Then season 4 starts with a solid episode but one that felt nothing like Miami Vice & one that began the trend of minimizing the Tubbs character. Focusing so much on Crockett changed the "buddy cop" dynamic. Then you have all the wacky episodes. I haven't even seen some of the ones mentioned!

The "Burnett" story is ridiculous but it's superbly executed. I remember watching the season 4 finale & thinking that's the best Miami Vice episode I'd seen in awhile. Three excellent episodes that unfortunately hurt the future of the series. There's a cloud over season 5 because Crockett & Tubbs will never be carefree kicking back on the boat again. Crockett would never be allowed to stay on the force in reality.

Season 3, even with the style changes, is really solid albeit different from the earlier seasons. Season 4 is when the shark jumping really began I think.

Edited by Noggie
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vikingbikerREB

The show jumped the shark beginning with the Season 4 opener Contempt in Court and after that the show was history. The episode literally took out the Vice in Miami Vice and it never came back.

 

I need to add my two cents in this discussion. Why all the backlash at Everybody's in Showbiz? Its a superb episode. You can not deny its not well written and a character driven episode? The episode touches upon the life of Miguel Pinero. Mikey is a young Pinero. He's a trouble maker. A liar. A thief. A guy with so much talent, but yet he throws it all away, usually, by getting in trouble and seeing himself as above the law. How many tv shows would make a episode as original as Showbiz and include drug dealers and dirty dealings, and gritty cinematography and action. Only Miami Vice. This is Miami Vice at its best. Everybody in Showbiz did for the art of theater as what Season 2's Free Verse did for the art of poetry. Both are similar in that respect, but Free Verse to me is one long, boring, depressing ride. 

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