Spyder

when did MV jump the shark for you?

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alleycat

I would believe Season three or four then it went down hill did not have the vibe it had in season one or two.I could be wrong but I feel that way now.

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Boca Raton

Watching "Missing Hours" right now and yeah jumping the shark.

its not bad-bad, I consider boring me the ultimate sin "Cow Sperm" ep bored the shit outta me-so that's the worst unless you count the "Leap of Faith" pos.

Missing Hours - the visuals are pretty bad even for 1988! Jump the shark ? YES worst ep of MV no freaking way.

 

for me seasons ranking:

1

2

5

3

4

Edited by Boca Raton
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summer84

I agree. And I'll take a humorous episode any day over a boring one. :thumbsup:  ("Cows of October" also had humor) I'm starting to forget the name of the episode, cause everybody constantly refers to it as cow sperm) Whenever someone mentions "Missing Hours", I feel the need to say something. :D

So it's just a matter of how you want it to be crispy or crunchy. :D

Edited by summer84

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vicegirl85

I don't know if I'd actually say MV jumped the shark, but... While there were good episodes in Season 4 and 5, in general I felt like the writers or whoever was in charge were running out of really good stories during Season 4. 

Although Caitlin's death made the Burnett arc possible (and I do feel that was a good story arc!), generally I felt the Caitlin storyline was weak and the relationship didn't pull me in.  I didn't really dislike Caitlin, just didn't buy Sonny Crockett in the role of Mr. Pop Star, or the sapfest that was promoted as their marital life (except when they were sad/upset with each other because their schedules didn't mesh).  Crockett's relationship with his ex, Caroline, was so much more believable.

Like Summer84, I'd always prefer to laugh than to suffer through a "serious" storyline that was ridiculous or made no sense, and Cows of October did have humor and (for me at least) a bit of plausibility.  Missing Hours annoyed me!  After suffering through almost all of it and trying to figure out some way in which it would make sense, then the viewers are fobbed off with the "it was just a dream" ending.  Boo!  

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airtommy

origin of the phrase "jump the shark":  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jumping_the_shark

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

For me it was mid S3, though there isn't a specific "jump the shark" episode that made me tune out.

Here was my experience during the original run in the 1980s:    I was infatuated with Miami Vice during S1 & S2.    Vice shunned the formulaic feel-good ending of standard cop shows.  Instead we often had a major failure at the end, like the death of a "good guy" or the escape of a "bad guy".  By S3, this concept was no longer shocking and even became predictable.  My interest in Vice start to wane.  I watched it most of the time but not always.    I didn't watch S4 and S5 at all.

Now that I've re-watched the series many times, my opinion hasn't changed at all.   S3 started off with a bang.  We had 7 consecutive good eps.  After that it became very spotty.  To me only 5 of the last 16 eps were good.  Vice was still holding it together through the "The Savage".   I would pinpoint "Theresa" as the beginning of the demise (not that I consider that ep especially bad).  Starting with "Theresa" we had 9 eps and only 2 were good.

Another thing I realize in hindsight is that I was subconsciously missing Mann's influence (he left at the end of S2) and Hammer's original music (which basically stopped at the end of S2).

Edited by airtommy
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Dadrian

Thanks for that link, @airtommy !

Just yesterday I was thinking about that phrase and wondering where it came from. :) 

For me, there are multiple shark jumps--each of which is somehow fully redeemed, chronologically, including the great (IMO) finale. 

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Vincent Hanna

Airtommy hit the nail on the head. The middle of season 3 is when you first get that feeling that the show is diminishing somewhat and the choices they made in that season precipitated the likes of season 4 with Missing Hours/Cow Semen/Frozen Rastafarian.

In hindsight, it would've been nice if Season 3 was the last season and they all went their separate ways. It would've been cool too if they were as ambitious as they were previously like having special episodes in New York and wherever they went for Smuggler's Blues/Calderone's Demise. etc. There were plans for them to got to Ireland and Japan which sounds awesome, even if it was an unrealistic aspiration for a show in those days.

I guess it was inevitable really. If you got a bunch of talented guys, producers/writers/director/actors/composer and they all either leave or check out creatively it's no wonder the show became a shell of it's former self. But atleast it's not unique to MiamI Vice, It seems like most movie franchise share that same fate like Terminator Genysis, Alien Covenant, James Bond (Spectre), The Godfather 3, Kingdom of the Crystal Skull, Star Trek Into Darkness, Superman IV and so on..:D

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Vicefan7777

I think by the time season 4 came about the show's writers were more concerned with trying to come up with stories to restore the ratings and were not concerned about quality.  The disaster with moving the show head to head against Dallas made no sense.  Dick Wolf taking over from Michael Mann and turning the show into a more serious tone was disappointing. He missed the bus completely on how Mann made the show so unique. Having the Crockett and Tubbs characters drift apart was a bad idea.  I cannot name any episode that jumped the shark for me.  I believe it was a combination of issues.  But I will say I was a loyal fan until the end.  

 

 

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summer84
10 hours ago, vicegirl85 said:

I don't know if I'd actually say MV jumped the shark, but... While there were good episodes in Season 4 and 5, in general I felt like the writers or whoever was in charge were running out of really good stories during Season 4. 

Although Caitlin's death made the Burnett arc possible (and I do feel that was a good story arc!), generally I felt the Caitlin storyline was weak and the relationship didn't pull me in.  I didn't really dislike Caitlin, just didn't buy Sonny Crockett in the role of Mr. Pop Star, or the sapfest that was promoted as their marital life (except when they were sad/upset with each other because their schedules didn't mesh).  Crockett's relationship with his ex, Caroline, was so much more believable.

Like Summer84, I'd always prefer to laugh than to suffer through a "serious" storyline that was ridiculous or made no sense, and Cows of October did have humor and (for me at least) a bit of plausibility.  Missing Hours annoyed me!  After suffering through almost all of it and trying to figure out some way in which it would make sense, then the viewers are fobbed off with the "it was just a dream" ending.  Boo!  

I also feel "Missing Hours"or the UFO episode is ridiculous in places like when Trudy starts to hallucinate, (I'd call it). Still some of the stuff can make me laugh and at least it's not a boring episode. And we get to see more of Trudy and Gina's friendship and also a bit of the more "down to earth" stuff. It's supposed to seem like a dream and yet it isn't. What a twist! :) It's all very surreal. The producers/Dick wolf should just have left it as a dream. Their dream.

The whole marriage theme with Crockett was to me very un-Vice like. It didn't belong in MV. I just couldn't picture Crockett married and wasn't a fan of Caitlin. If he just had to get married it should have been with Gina of course! :fireworks:

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Boca Raton
51 minutes ago, summer84 said:

I also feel "Missing Hours"or the UFO episode is ridiculous in places like when Trudy starts to hallucinate, (I'd call it). Still some of the stuff can make me laugh and at least it's not a boring episode. And we get to see more of Trudy and Gina's friendship and also a bit of the more "down to earth" stuff. It's supposed to seem like a dream and yet it isn't. What a twist! :) It's all very surreal. The producers/Dick wolf should just have left it as a dream. Their dream.

The whole marriage theme with Crockett was to me very un-Vice like. It didn't belong in MV. I just couldn't picture Crockett married and wasn't a fan of Caitlin. If he just had to get married it should have been with Gina of course! :fireworks:

Agree! This is my second time watching the series again.

I remember the first time watching 'Like a Hurricane' the fact that Crockett meets/marries a woman in the same episode- I said wow I was So into this show and now I'm going "ehhh, no...now it's gone too far" so maybe that's when it jumped the shark for me at least.

its uncomfortable to watch the Sonny married man saga and I was glad to see it end- God that was terrible.

it picks up again and gets good w/bad Burnett saga though

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Ferrariman

The show never jumped the shark for me but season 5 just wasn't the same without Jan Hammer.   I always thought that John Petersen had a pretty good handle on Jan's style and thought he would've been the perfect replacement.  Season 5 also had Tubbs wearing some of the dumbest stuff I've ever seen!

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Boca Raton
8 hours ago, Ferrariman said:

The show never jumped the shark for me but season 5 just wasn't the same without Jan Hammer.   I always thought that John Petersen had a pretty good handle on Jan's style and thought he would've been the perfect replacement.  Season 5 also had Tubbs wearing some of the dumbest stuff I've ever seen!

Yes Tubbs' clothes!!!

whoever did the wardrobe in season 5 should never work again

Edited by Boca Raton

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Vincent Hanna

Tubbs and El Gato must have went to the same tailor. Or Tubbs raided the guys closet after he died.

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Marco Falcone

Even as bad as some episodes are, I don't think it ever really "jumped the shark."  

If it really did a "flying Fonzi" would we all be on this forum, occasionally (or not so occasionally) dressing in the style, ALWAYS listening to the soundtrack and music from the time, spending MONEY on sunglasses, guns, cars, shoes, etc that allow us to live a bit of the Vice lifestyle?

It was the ultimate cultural expression of its time and decade, and it influenced and continues to influence pop culture to this day.  As "bad" as Season 5 was, (and a good bit of Season 4), there are still those moments that are pure "Vice."  Those moments where you can't help but say out loud, "YES!  This is what this show is about.  THERE'S Crockett!  THAT'S classic Tubbs!"

It's like when I went to see Van Halen with Diamond Dave a few years ago.  The first 3-4 songs I was, like, "Holy shit!  That IS Van Halen!"  But then, after his voice was thrashed, and Wolfgang was obviously out past his curfew, the majority of the show was not so good.  But there were still those moments right up to the end where there was a glorious spark of past greatness.  A moment of re-lived memory that creates a shimmering mirage of time suspended.

I watched the entire series last year from start to finish.  And spent a good amount of time on this forum and other parts of the Net expanding and enriching my personal version of the Vice Univrese.  I even watched the Director's cut of the "Movie" (and have been trying to find Colin Farrell's black shirt with the embroidered front in XXL) with a dusky, whisky-tinged tear of nostalgia in my left eye...  And still, for Christmas of 2016 I asked for and received the Complete Series on DVD.  And I'm watching it again from start to finish, though I must admit there are certain episodes I will skip.  And even, then, maybe.

All of it, the good and the bad, swirl together in a wonderful, undulating miasma that creates a visceral, tangible fantasy that more than leaks into our everyday realities;  it soaks like sweat through a lavender henley on a hot Miami afternoon.  

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Dadrian

Post of the week! :clap:

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Tony D.
15 hours ago, Ferrariman said:

The show never jumped the shark for me but season 5 just wasn't the same without Jan Hammer.   I always thought that John Petersen had a pretty good handle on Jan's style and thought he would've been the perfect replacement.  Season 5 also had Tubbs wearing some of the dumbest stuff I've ever seen!

It never "jumped the shark" for me either!  "Missing Hours" was really the only episode that I didn't consider right for Miami Vice, but it even had a couple of fun moments. I even liked "Miracle Man"..... I guess I'm just a die hard MV, fan. :thumbsup:

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Mr. Calderon

maybe when they started to break the crockett and tubbs partnership and doing more DJ focused episodes (or even Tubbs focused)...Its like as if they do a robin episode for a Batman and Robin series...I must say the kaitlin arch was more focused on DJ but...tomatos towards me..i loved that story arch....

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jenny

SEASON 5..when PMT LOOKED LIKE HE LOST TOO MUCH WEIGHT, THE STORY LINES GOT CHEESY AND HIS OUTFITS WERE GOOFY AND TOO BIG!:D

And when they stopped dressing in pastel colors too!   That is what made the 80's!

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Mr. Calderon

tubbs with beard...maybe too

 

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jenny
Just now, Mr. Calderon said:

tubbs with beard...maybe too

 

NOOOOOO!  He was sexy with the beard!   it gave him a more sophisticated look!:thumbsup:

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Daytona74

One scene -

Crockett and Tubbs pulling up in their Testarossa in front of a high school in baggy S3 clothing in The Good Collar. Even with the sort of suspension of disbelief that the show required, that was just a step too far :)

I actually watched that episode again a while ago, and at that moment, I was like, "Yeah, ok, THIS was  when it jumped the shark". The moment when the wheels were coming off the idea that they were always dressed in the best designer suits because they were always by coincidence somehow in between drug deals.

Maybe that scene would have worked with the less ostentatious black Daytona and Sonny just wearing one of his S1 tank tops. But just look at that scene and tell me it doesn't make you cringe no matter how big a fan you are :p

Would you really want to show up at a high school as a supposed undercover  cop wearing that kind of clothing and driving a $100K sports car, and then try to tell kids that crime doesn't pay?

Edited by Daytona74
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Boca Raton

Season 4 is just throwing way too much at me...

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Vincent Hanna

When did you guys first realise season 4 was going to be the drizzles?

For me it was Amen Send Money when the guy climbed the power lines but it was obviously a piece of cloth slightly shaped like a person. It was so cheap and tacky looking. It was like "Oh this is where we're at now huh?" :wuerg:

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Matt5
13 hours ago, Vincent Hanna said:

When did you guys first realise season 4 was going to be the drizzles?

For me it was Amen Send Money when the guy climbed the power lines but it was obviously a piece of cloth slightly shaped like a person. It was so cheap and tacky looking. It was like "Oh this is where we're at now huh?" :wuerg:

Much rewatch that scene:hippie:

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Ferrariman

Yes there were some bad episodes (we all know which ones)  but the only episode I absolutely can't watch is "Hell hath No Fury"

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