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Burnett's S&W 4506!!

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Kavinsky
I'm flat busted now' date=' but probably by the end of the summer and into the fall I will be flush enough to start shopping. But thanks for offering to keep your eyes peeled, let me know what you find. I'm not surprise that the 645, 645-TR, and 4506 all run about the same price. They were essentially the same handgun just different stages of its evolution. Yeah a 3rd and 4th season 465, or 5th season 645-TR are probably going to be my first Crockett hand-cannon. Whichever I come across first. I've been doing some googling online for Galco holster info, and from what I've seen, heard from people, and read on Galco's site I think I might have some idea what I'm looking for. As I understand it during the 2nd season, Galco was selling the Original Jackass Rig, which they made a couple (I presume there were at least two holsters for shooting) for the Bren Ten and personally fit DJ for. At some point after that, they renamed the Original Jackass Rig to Miami Classic and so both are the same setup of backstrap attaching under the barrel on the holster. It may have been called the Miami Classic when they fitted the holsters for the S&W 645, or renamed sometime after that during 3rd or 4th seasons. Galco probably did not fit a new holster for 5th season and the 645-TR, because if the 645 and 4506 use the same holster, the 645-TR should fit too. Then sometime before the middle of 5th season, Galco came out with the Miami Classic II rig which has the two attachment points above the slide on the holster and is the Miami Classic that they sell today. And then mid season they fitted their Classic II for the 645-TR for the rest of the season. There's a lot of supposition in that storyline, but that's how I have best put it all together in my brain. If anyone knows better please correct me. I haven't watched the 5th season in years, and I'm currently watching the first season one episode each Friday night to experience it like I did back when I was in middle school first watching it. At this rate I won't get to 5th for some time, so maybe I'll watch the DJ episodes from Bad Timing forward with an eye out for holsters and hand-canons.[/quote']Also with the Holsters I heard from the smith and wesson guys that the Beretta 92 series holsters work for them, given the square trigger guard shape of the 92 which is very similar to the ones used on the second and early third gensother than that I honestly dont know too much about the differences done to the holsters over time with the miami vice one.

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Lifeguard

I was browsing Galco's website last night and found that they do carry both a Miami Classic and Miami Classic II currently, although I could not figure out from looking at them what the difference was other than the magazine pouches. The description was the same too. The line on the Galco site "From that moment, Galco’s Jackass Rig, designed by Rick Gallagher over 14 years earlier, became the real Miami Classic rig, destined to be the most copied shoulder holster system in the world today." has always made me believe that they just renamed the Original Jackass Rig. But I'm not sure that is what happened. Both are available in tan and black:http://www.usgalco.com/HolsterPT3.asp?ProductID=2037&CatalogID=2http://www.usgalco.com/HolsterPT4.aspI did a marathon last night of discs two and four from my DVD set of the 5th season last night. "Line of Fire" seems to be the best look repeated at Crockett's Jackass Rig, which definitely had the attachment point below the barrel and was in a dark brown. I don't remember now if the season 3 and 4 holster was dark brown or not? If it was tan, then this is definitely a different Jackass Rig in the 5th season. The current Jackass Rig has the holster and magazine pouches in "havana", which seems like a good color match to 5th season, although the straps are still tan on the current Jackass. There is a holster molded for the Beretta 92F/FS, so a new holster might be a good match for a S&W 645-TR, at least until a Galco S&W holster can be found. The handcuff attachment shows up in several episodes in 5th season too, I don't remember if we saw that in season 3 and 4. http://www.usgalco.com/HolsterPT3.asp?ProductID=651&CatalogID=2I looked back through the threads and found that it was Gonzo!! who had said he noticed a Miami Classic II later in the season. Which is why I jumped to disc four to review "The Lost Madonna", "Over the Line", "Victim of Circumstance", "World of Trouble" and the beginning of "Miracle Man." I didn't see any Classic II, just the same Jackass Rig from "Line of Fire" on. So unless it shows up on disc five, I don't think Crockett wore anything but a Jackass Rig from its adoption in season 2 on (I'm thinking now that they never renamed the Jackass just discontinued it, and that the Miami Classic has always been a separate holster). Which would have been 4 holsters (not counting the multiples of each for filming) that Crockett used throughout the series, including the Dan Blocker Lifeline originally.

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Lifeguard

After writing my post, I had an itch to verify the color on the holster in 3rd and 4th season, so I decided to start with "Stone's War" as the perfect place to start. They get back to the boat, jacket comes off, and there is the S&W 645 in a Jackass Rig that is the same dark brown (havana?) as the 5th season rig, handcuff attachment and all. I guess the change to the darker tones in season 3 also resulted in a darker Jackass Rig. Now I'm not sure, maybe they changed the Jackass Rig for season 5, maybe not. I think my first acquisition may be to pick up a modern Jackass Rig for a 92F/FS, have my local leather worker recolor the straps to match the accessories and then await a purchase of a 645 or 645-TR to test it out with. If it works fine, if not then I can start looking for a vintage Galco S&W holster attachment.

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Kavinsky

http://www.usgalco.com/HolsterPT3.asp?ProductID=2037&CatalogID=2http://www.usgalco.com/HolsterPT4.aspI did a marathon last night of discs two and four from my DVD set of the 5th season last night. "Line of Fire" seems to be the best look repeated at Crockett's Jackass Rig, which definitely had the attachment point below the barrel and was in a dark brown. I don't remember now if the season 3 and 4 holster was dark brown or not? If it was tan, then this is definitely a different Jackass Rig in the 5th season. The current Jackass Rig has the holster and magazine pouches in "havana", which seems like a good color match to 5th season, although the straps are still tan on the current Jackass. There is a holster molded for the Beretta 92F/FS, so a new holster might be a good match for a S&W 645-TR, at least until a Galco S&W holster can be found. The handcuff attachment shows up in several episodes in 5th season too, I don't remember if we saw that in season 3 and 4. http://www.usgalco.com/HolsterPT3.asp?ProductID=651&CatalogID=2I looked back through the threads and found that it was Gonzo!! who had said he noticed a Miami Classic II later in the season. Which is why I jumped to disc four to review "The Lost Madonna", "Over the Line", "Victim of Circumstance", "World of Trouble" and the beginning of "Miracle Man." I didn't see any Classic II, just the same Jackass Rig from "Line of Fire" on. So unless it shows up on disc five, I don't think Crockett wore anything but a Jackass Rig from its adoption in season 2 on (I'm thinking now that they never renamed the Jackass just discontinued it, and that the Miami Classic has always been a separate holster). Which would have been 4 holsters (not counting the multiples of each for filming) that Crockett used throughout the series, including the Dan Blocker Lifeline originally.

It says saddle leather there, which is sort of a dark brown like leather if there talking about the color, unless it means the brand kind of leather. as that was regarded as a higher up leather on upper scale cars.huh looks like galco is celebrating miami vice's 30th with that second one you posted herehttp://www.usgalco.com/HolsterPT3.asp?ProductID=651&CatalogID=21984 was damn near 30 years ago after all, that might be the reason for the difference, like the second one is the first version from the earlier seasons, the second one the latter ones.also with the holsters I think that other one your refering to is the one for the browning BDA he carried in the Pilot, that was the import name for the Sig Sauer 220 then, which was a rare first model yet again.Eingefügtes Bildmaybe that S3 holster was the one I posted above, it looks darker than the other ones which appear to be a lighter brown.and keep in mind TUBBS was wearing a Shoulder holster in stones war when talking to the reporter after crockett had left the room, the same one crockett had. and had also pulled the model 49 bodyguard out of a Shoulder holster instead of his usual on the hip holster in When Irish Eyes Are Crying in the scene after they blew up the model of the daytona. so maybe they shared holsters in some scenes or older ones for certain scenes, after all they had two daytona's for the one way ticket to hell chase at the end.so one would think they would keep the older holster around and just switch out the part holding the gun to match another gun, which I believe is possibile with the Galco system I mean you dont throw something like that out, especially for a show where the budget is key to keeping the show running.and I know they bought like 2 or 3 suits of the same clothes in S2, one of which was for the stuntmen. no idea why that would be like that with the cuffs.

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Lifeguard

http://www.usgalco.com/HolsterPT3.asp?ProductID=651&CatalogID=21984 was damn near 30 years ago after all, that might be the reason for the difference, like the second one is the first version from the earlier seasons, the second one the latter ones.also with the holsters I think that other one your refering to is the one for the browning BDA he carried in the Pilot, that was the import name for the Sig Sauer 220 then, which was a rare first model yet again.maybe that S3 holster was the one I posted above, it looks darker than the other ones which appear to be a lighter brown.and keep in mind TUBBS was wearing a Shoulder holster in stones war when talking to the reporter after crockett had left the room, the same one crockett had. and had also pulled the model 49 bodyguard out of a Shoulder holster instead of his usual on the hip holster in When Irish Eyes Are Crying in the scene after they blew up the model of the daytona. so maybe they shared holsters in some scenes or older ones for certain scenes, after all they had two daytona's for the one way ticket to hell chase at the end.so one would think they would keep the older holster around and just switch out the part holding the gun to match another gun, which I believe is possibile with the Galco system I mean you dont throw something like that out, especially for a show where the budget is key to keeping the show running.and I know they bought like 2 or 3 suits of the same clothes in S2, one of which was for the stuntmen. no idea why that would be like that with the cuffs.

Oh good lord, now don't start in with swapping holsters back and forth in the production, my head will now explode from trying to take in all those variables. The Dan Blocker Lifeline I was referring to was the first holster for the Bren Ten, but that's a good pic of the pilot Sig Sauer holster. No one has identified that one that I've heard. The holsters as I understand them now are:S1 "Brother's Keeper" - unknown vertical holster for Sig SauerS1 (maybe part of S2) - Ted Blocker Lifeline (tan) for Bren TenS2 - Galco Original Jackass Rig (tan) for Bren TenS3 thru S4 - Galco Original Jackass (havana) with handcuff holster for S&W 645S5 - Galco Original Jackass (havana) with handcuff holster for S&W 4506 (645-TR)So that's 5 holsters total, not counting what Crockett used when he was Burnett (just thought of that one). That's assuming there was some difference in the holster component for the 645 and 645-TR, which would have been the only part that changed (and maybe the harness, magazine case and cuff's holster were kept from the previous two seasons?). Yeah, you're right the Jackass is modular so parts can be swapped.I saw that it was a 30 year anniversary, but I couldn't figure out of what. I guess you're right it's probably MV related.I'm not sure what type of leather Crockett's rig was made out of (it's been a long time since my Plastics and Leather Shop Class in middle school). The new Jackass Rig has a suede harness according to the description, and I'm pretty sure Crockett's harnesses were not suede. I'm also not sure the magazine case with the new Jackass is the same as the accessory that Crockett had. I may inquire with Galco to see how much it would be for a custom S&W Jackass holster, and if I go that route may have their SCL26 mag case and a harness colored havana to match. I found an online auction for the SC72H and may pic that up this week, just because that's the one item I can probably afford right now. And I did see Smith and Wesson handcuffs available online.

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Kavinsky
Oh good lord' date=' now don't start in with swapping holsters back and forth in the production, my head will now explode from trying to take in all those variables. The Dan Blocker Lifeline I was referring to was the first holster for the Bren Ten, but that's a good pic of the pilot Sig Sauer holster. No one has identified that one that I've heard. The holsters as I understand them now are:S1 "Brother's Keeper" - unknown vertical holster for Sig SauerS1 (maybe part of S2) - Ted Blocker Lifeline (tan) for Bren TenS2 - Galco Original Jackass Rig (tan) for Bren TenS3 thru S4 - Galco Original Jackass (havana) with handcuff holster for S&W 645S5 - Galco Original Jackass (havana) with handcuff holster for S&W 4506 (645-TR)So that's 5 holsters total, not counting what Crockett used when he was Burnett (just thought of that one). That's assuming there was some difference in the holster component for the 645 and 645-TR, which would have been the only part that changed (and maybe the harness, magazine case and cuff's holster were kept from the previous two seasons?). Yeah, you're right the Jackass is modular so parts can be swapped.I saw that it was a 30 year anniversary, but I couldn't figure out of what. I guess you're right it's probably MV related.I'm not sure what type of leather Crockett's rig was made out of (it's been a long time since my Plastics and Leather Shop Class in middle school). The new Jackass Rig has a suede harness according to the description, and I'm pretty sure Crockett's harnesses were not suede. I'm also not sure the magazine case with the new Jackass is the same as the accessory that Crockett had. I may inquire with Galco to see how much it would be for a custom S&W Jackass holster, and if I go that route may have their SCL26 mag case and a harness colored havana to match. I found an online auction for the SC72H and may pic that up this week, just because that's the one item I can probably afford right now. And I did see Smith and Wesson handcuffs available online.[/quote']Eingefügtes Bildhttp://www.miamiviceonline.com/vbglossar.php?do=showentry&id=2139I get the feeling I might know what it is actually, back awhile back when looking at holsters I mentioned how I didnt care for the vertical ones. with the guns pointed back towards someone behind you on the bren ten forums and one of the members pointed me towards a custom onestyme I believeits a spring loaded holster, was first made with cowboys in mind so that you dont loose your gun on a bucking horse if you didnt like the holsters with a strap over the gun.it was mentioned in Elmer Keiths six guns under the holster section, George Lawrence #7 variant by Ted Blocker I believe with a retention spring system built inGeorge Lawrence Ted Blockern clam shell with spring retention I think might be the proper search terms for itwhich could fit given what it says here in a quick google searchhttp://www.tedblockerholsters.com/gallery.cfm?id=D5A62587-9B66-4A5A-6A18A1FB24C75D06&photo=B3F1F210-E85A-C8B7-96EFCF3B41A0C4D7&CFID=21164178&CFTOKEN=e603a6726e03a53d-BECF6A19-E0AC-69B5-CF3ABE56D09AF705&jsessionid=8430df7cc257b47be7795b40335f401b4154with the holsters it wouldnt make sense to have the parts with the guns and the magazines made out of that kind of material and suede in miami under a suit coat? doesnt sound right.

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Lifeguard

http://www.tedblockerholsters.com/gallery.cfm?id=D5A62587-9B66-4A5A-6A18A1FB24C75D06&photo=B3F1F210-E85A-C8B7-96EFCF3B41A0C4D7&CFID=21164178&CFTOKEN=e603a6726e03a53d-BECF6A19-E0AC-69B5-CF3ABE56D09AF705&jsessionid=8430df7cc257b47be7795b40335f401b4154with the holsters it wouldnt make sense to have the parts with the guns and the magazines made out of that kind of material and suede in miami under a suit coat? doesnt sound right.

OK, check off another holster as known. I'm not sure what kind of leather the holster and magazine case. They appear to be riveted instead of stitched, probably to keep its cost lower than the Miami Classic, but I don't think that's correct to any of the Jackass Rigs worn by DJ. I think they were all stitched. For some reason the new Jackass has a suede harness (cost?) which I'm sure Crockett had some type of leather harness. So if they rereleased the Jackass as a 30 year anniversary of MV, they got it pretty wrong. To build a new 3rd through 5th season holster, you pretty much have to buy it by parts:harness - maybe the MCH or SSH (recolored havana), I'm not sure whichholster - either the J202H if it fits the S&W, otherwise a custom from Galco or vintage onemag case - JCL28H or SL26 (recolored havana)cuffs holster - SC72H (if you can find it) or SC72 (recolored havana)That's my recipe at the moment, it may change and may just order all the parts custom through Galco so that they are all the right type and color (and stitching maybe).One thing I hadn't looked at is the type of magazines that Crockett uses. Did he switch to the new rubber bottom S&W mag in season 5, or were they still using the S&W steel plate bottom mags from the previous seasons? At $50 a piece, I want to make sure I'm getting the right mags to be season correct.

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Kavinsky
OK' date=' check off another holster as known. I'm not sure what kind of leather the holster and magazine case. They appear to be riveted instead of stitched, probably to keep its cost lower than the Miami Classic, but I don't think that's correct to any of the Jackass Rigs worn by DJ. I think they were all stitched. For some reason the new Jackass has a suede harness (cost?) which I'm sure Crockett had some type of leather harness. So if they rereleased the Jackass as a 30 year anniversary of MV, they got it pretty wrong. To build a new 3rd through 5th season holster, you pretty much have to buy it by parts:harness - maybe the MCH or SSH (recolored havana), I'm not sure whichholster - either the J202H if it fits the S&W, otherwise a custom from Galco or vintage onemag case - JCL28H or SL26 (recolored havana)cuffs holster - SC72H (if you can find it) or SC72 (recolored havana)That's my recipe at the moment, it may change and may just order all the parts custom through Galco so that they are all the right type and color (and stitching maybe).One thing I hadn't looked at is the type of magazines that Crockett uses. Did he switch to the new rubber bottom S&W mag in season 5, or were they still using the S&W steel plate bottom mags from the previous seasons? At $50 a piece, I want to make sure I'm getting the right mags to be season correct.[/quote']One of the noted problems with the solid steel baseplates on the 645. Was that with an on the hip holster it could tear the bench seats in a cop car back then.and did atleast once according to one of the cops on the bren ten forums.so they switched over to a plastic baseplate, like wilson combat uses nowadays for that reason and to make it easier to take down and clean. but you can use the 4506 mags in the 645 nowadays without any problemsand even supposedly 1911 magazines as long as its an 8 or 9 rounder I believe, not a 100 sure but supposedly the only thing you need to do is replace the follower. but for a shoulder holster it shouldn't really matter and honestly I don't know, think there was an S5 episode where he picks up the gun after the restaurant was hit and it should show the magazines there.http://www.miamiviceonline.com/vbglossar.php?do=showentry&id=137it was right after he puts down the spoon and looks at his gunEingefügtes Bildsuede might be because of how nice that feels against the skin and it is heat resistant, dont know if it holds water and moisture though.so it might be considered more luxurious, plus how is the holster lined exactly? is it rough or smooth leather that wont hurt the gun outside of the unavoidable holster wear.and some gun holsters are lined with suede supposedly, or some smooth material.

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Lifeguard

http://www.miamiviceonline.com/vbglossar.php?do=showentry&id=137it was right after he puts down the spoon and looks at his gunEingefügtes Bildsuede might be because of how nice that feels against the skin and it is heat resistant, dont know if it holds water and moisture though.so it might be considered more luxurious, plus how is the holster lined exactly? is it rough or smooth leather that wont hurt the gun outside of the unavoidable holster wear.and some gun holsters are lined with suede supposedly, or some smooth material.

Yeah, that's "Victims of Circumstance", I just watched that episode a couple of days ago and was looking at holsters and wasn't thinking of magazines. So the 465-TR and the 4506 where the first sold with the rubber bottoms then, while the 465 would have used the steel bottom exclusively? So fifth season might be rubber bottoms or it might be reuses of the steel bottom mags? I'll have to put fifth season in again and watch it over. BTW, I forgot how much I liked the 5th season stories, I get used to all the complaining about the quality going down and I just never saw it and the time.Oh, so 8 or 9 rd 1911 mags work, good to know. Just don't use the 100 rd mags.....wait, their are 100 rd mags for the 1911....HOLY ****!!!!! :pYeah, I don't know anything beyond Galco's descriptions on their website. What did the Original Jackass Rig have on the inside of the holsters? I guess that's something to call up and ask when I get the cabbage together to look at getting a holster. Of course it might be cheaper to buy the S&W first at first. I'll have to see how my summer business goes. Somebody was saying on one forum that you can send your handgun in to S&W and they will refinish it for you back to factory appearance, so I guess could also polish the slide on a 645-TR and give it the Vice treatment.

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Kavinsky
Yeah' date=' that's "Victims of Circumstance", I just watched that episode a couple of days ago and was looking at holsters and wasn't thinking of magazines. So the 465-TR and the 4506 where the first sold with the rubber bottoms then, while the 465 would have used the steel bottom exclusively? So fifth season might be rubber bottoms or it might be reuses of the steel bottom mags? I'll have to put fifth season in again and watch it over. BTW, I forgot how much I liked the 5th season stories, I get used to all the complaining about the quality going down and I just never saw it and the time.Oh, so 8 or 9 rd 1911 mags work, good to know. Just don't use the 100 rd mags.....wait, their are 100 rd mags for the 1911....HOLY ****!!!!! :pYeah, I don't know anything beyond Galco's descriptions on their website. What did the Original Jackass Rig have on the inside of the holsters? I guess that's something to call up and ask when I get the cabbage together to look at getting a holster. Of course it might be cheaper to buy the S&W first at first. I'll have to see how my summer business goes. Somebody was saying on one forum that you can send your handgun in to S&W and they will refinish it for you back to factory appearance, so I guess could also polish the slide on a 645-TR and give it the Vice treatment.[/quote']I would think so with the mags. And the 1911 is a versatile old system, someone made a 100 round belt fed fully automatic one at one point in the 1970's.

http-~~-//www.youtube.com/watch?v=c3UdbFTAEks

Hell John Dillinger modifed one from .38 super 1911 to full auto and put a pistol grip from a tommy gun on it. Probably could do the same with a 645 or a 4506 but the paperwork would be enormous. I honestly dont know with the holster but he did complain about the First rig, maybe that was one of the ways the Galco one felt better to him.maybe the first was all leather and constantly pinching him. I would sooner take it to a gunsmith, an older one who knows what there doing and ask them to polish the sides of the slide not the top to make sure you dont get a glarefest when trying to shoot it like herehttp://www.miamiviceonline.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=8063&stc=1&d=1370991612 and leave it at that, along with just doing the slide and not the nose like herehttp://www.miamiviceonline.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=8064&stc=1&d=1370991613vs how it was on the show, with the top and the nose left intact, hence why his well frankly looks professional, as it leaves the key parts matt and just the sides polished http://www.miamiviceonline.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=8065&stc=1&d=1370991614 http://www.miamiviceonline.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=8067&stc=1&d=1370992233and that anti glare stuff on the slide is there for a reason, it takes the place of the ribbing the colts had to reduce glare on the slides of the upper scale 1911 gold cups pre 1990'shttp://www.miamiviceonline.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=8034&stc=1&d=1370641448http://www.miamiviceonline.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=8035&stc=1&d=1370641463and I have actually seen a 4506 that had a brushed stainless finish like the 645 if you wanted to make the 4506 like 645.http://www.miamiviceonline.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=8061&stc=1&d=1370991608http://www.miamiviceonline.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=8062&stc=1&d=1370991610Brushed by the way looks mattish in bright light, reducing glare, not a mirror. in low light it looks glossy, so there is a big difference right there with it.bright lightEingefügtes BildEingefügtes Bildlow lightEingefügtes Bildcould do that for the frame, have the frame brushed like on the Bren ten and leave the beatblasting alone to give it a bren ten like finish.theres alot of variables, plus the 4506 and 1006 was redone by a bren ten fan, I've heard that the 1006 feels kinda like the bren ten in passing somewhat, probably because of the wider grip on the 4506so either way with a smith your generally set, but from a fit and finish perspective smart money would be on the 645 TR and 4506, although if you prefer an exotic finish they dont do anymorethe 645 is the way to go unless you know of someone that can do that for you, hence why I went for mine.that and no 4506's around and it was NIB, although having it has clarified why they did what they did with the changes, but after putting the packmyer grips on it and a little see through tape on the rough edge on the trigger I do really like the thing.so just be forewarned the second gens can be kinda rough, it was a rough time for Smith back then and they sometimes have imperfections like a slight sharp edge on the trigger and the front sight that can easily get knocked and have imperfections, vs novak which can easily be replaced.hence why they went to it, to make it higher quality and save costs, although I'm not sure how snagproof it is given its sharpness vs the 645's front sight which was a hold over from the model 15 revolver. the service version of the K38 match gun given the target sights with there sharp edges could be snagged hence why they were changed to a I believe its called Boman type front sight, ramped basically with a low bottom edge so it doesnt get caught on the holster, although that may explain the ramp on the 4506 vs the flat top with the ramp ontop of it 645and also hence why when the third gens came out they were 5 years old and had some of the kinks worked out by then.also it might be possible to have the sides of the novak front side beadblasted to blend in with the rest of the slide, leaving the bead black and 3 dot for a nice little final touch, like on the bren ten:Bren ten Front sight, mounted from the nosehttp://www.miamiviceonline.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=8069&stc=1&d=1370992424Novak, Dovetail type from the sidehttp://www.miamiviceonline.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=8068&stc=1&d=1370992424see sort of how much nicer it looks on the Bren Ten, with a finish guy you could have that small little custom touch done to set it off.Additional: With the magazines the other reason they might have gone to the thicker baseplate was to make it easier to pull out of the gun without making the baseplate longer, as when too long can sometimes cut into the shooters hand under recoil.I had that happen with a Model 39 and Walther P38 with post war magazines, hence why it might not be a bad idea to invest in the latter Mec Gar type mags with the thicker and shorter baseplates over the stock ones.especially if its a single stack like the model 36 or 939 if you ever go for one, kind of underated 9mm single stacks but the 6's are all steel, stainless like the 659 vs the alloy version of it which is blued, the 59 and the 459unless its got a 5 in the digit generally with the third gens. I noted this as I have a longer pinky, so I'm much more sensitive to that than other people. Its just a quarter of an inch shorter than the other fingers on my hands, hell its almost symmetrical with my pointing finger.guess that might also explain why I seem to be abit more dexterous with my hands than other people, more to work with.also maybe 0:09 would help here

http-~~-//www.youtube.com/watch?v=vInIaF1oJtA

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Lifeguard

Wooooow....I had to sit down and reread that post a few times to get all the details. A lot of good tips. Let me try to make a little chart of Crockett's hand canons and their finish to see if I have the details right:Bren Ten---------------factory brushed frame---------custom chromed slideS&W 645---------------factory brushed frame---------factory brushed slideS&W 4065 (645-TR)---factory bead blasted frame---custom polished sides of slideIs that a correct summary? I'm sure the reason they polished the 645-TR for 5th season was for night shooting, just like the issue they had with the Bren Ten in "Heart of Darkness" that caused them to chrome the slide.That's a nifty idea with the 1006. A poor man's Bren Ten for someone who actually wants a 10mm they can shoot....I mean "see their therapist." Leave the the slide bead blasted and brush finish the frame. Too bad they don't have the Jackass holster for the 1009 either.[ATTACH=CONFIG]8070[/ATTACH]I was just watching "One Way Ticket" earlier today for the "therapy" montage where you get a lot of views of the Galco Jackass for the Bren Ten. Although the leather was discolored on some parts (probably from all the sweating as DJ rolled around and shot in the Florida heat), it definitely appeared to be the tan/natural color. But that scene from "Trust Fund Pirates" clearly is a Jackass Rig in havana brown. It looks like they may have switched rigs during the season to the darker color. Now that complicates things. Maybe they got tired of the discoloration on the tan Jackass Rig and decided to use the darker havana, and that's why all his S&W holsters are the havana brown.

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Gary1911A1
Wow! I can't believe what early 4506s' are going for. :eek: glad I got mine when I did. With spare parts becoming harder to find it's still surprising to me so many people want these. True it's a great pistol, but I'd I had been Sonny, I would of gone back to the Sig 220 in .45ACP similar to the one Sonny had in the pilot and latter in Season 5 when he became "Bad Sonny".

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Kavinsky

8070[/ATTACH]I was just watching "One Way Ticket" earlier today for the "therapy" montage where you get a lot of views of the Galco Jackass for the Bren Ten. Although the leather was discolored on some parts (probably from all the sweating as DJ rolled around and shot in the Florida heat), it definitely appeared to be the tan/natural color. But that scene from "Trust Fund Pirates" clearly is a Jackass Rig in havana brown. It looks like they may have switched rigs during the season to the darker color. Now that complicates things. Maybe they got tired of the discoloration on the tan Jackass Rig and decided to use the darker havana, and that's why all his S&W holsters are the havana brown.

Its a Hard Chrome with the Bren Ten, gives it a different texture from Beadblasting like on Hans Grubers Hard Chromed HK P713 "Squeeze Cocker"Source:http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/Die_HardEingefügtes BildOf which I have handled by the way, multiple times, the design pinches the hand but recoil gloves can easily rectify that. I know because my gun dealer had one and loved the thing but not that part of it, so he found a way around it.of note though I have seen a broken one like that done up like that because of that film, Hard Chroming when done wrong can cause Hydrogen Embrittlement, and with the QC problems of the bren ten the chance of that could be heightened.if you must go for a bren ten given its problems go for a marksmans special, non hard chromed. it was the .45 acp version and well I'm not sure but it was made by some place called the marksman shop in CA I believe.one of the bren ten guys got one of the last ones made there and it might be good to go given its origins.as I dont ever remember hearing about one of those breaking but nontheless exercise caution and have it non destructive magnafluxed and X rayed given Magnafluxing sometimes misses cracks below the surface.http://www.lambomiura.com/rest17.htmhttp://www.lambomiura.com/rest16.htmas the bren ten design was a great one but it was rushed with all of the problems that come with that. part of the reason why the failure of it is so tragic and vltors unwillingness to even do a simple overhaul of making the gun thicker to compensate for the stresses of the larger calibers is so insulting.as even CZ made a stronger version of the 9mm 75 to .45 and look how blocky it is http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=346364868same with the EAA

http-~~-//www.youtube.com/watch?v=4NPuo4UVTtM

vs the bren ten, note the frameEingefügtes Bildif you want to make a Bren Ten clone, the CZ 85 in .40 would probably be a good starting point and then you could have the things slide sandblasted which looks kinda close to the texture of hard chroming from the look of it.some new sig sauer thing I heard about, although only on the exterior, might be able to call sig sauer about it but another reason to have a well known pro do it and not some start up smithalthough you may need to fiddle with the spring power of it abit, for the bigger calibers and the shorter barrels the stronger the spring it needs and the CZ is a 4 incher, not a 5 like the 4506http://www.vintagepistols.com/range_report_S&W_4506.htmlso already its going to need a heavier spring probably, about 16 or 18 I would think.not entirely sure, if it has failures to feed every once in awhile it means chances are its too stiff unless your using really sharp hollowpoint ammo.its a little tricky to pin down but getting the spring power weight requires trial and error until the gun gets a 100% reliable with the right spring power, usually with the longer barreled ones its easier to pin down.and with the ammo if you hand fed it and it fed alright that means its probably the spring, otherwise it would get hung up and the feed ramp would be rather rough feelingbut I would only do that if the thing had feeding problems after break in past 200 rounds.With the bren ten it was originally an M and P all black and parakarizedm it was a coating over the blued steel and the early stainless frameEingefügtes BildI personally think they had the slide hard chromed and the frame polished, but forgot to polish the end of the barrel hence why it seemed black in certain scenesEingefügtes BildEingefügtes BildWell I ment that with the 1988 to 1990 4506 given the unique look of the frame on the early ones. but yeah it could be done with the 1006 but then you dont have that sort of beautifully skeitonized nose or the squared trigger guard which sets the gun off nicelyYeah would make sense with the havana brown, given the heat as I do remember it seeming more orangy brown in S1 in the Home Invaders Eingefügtes BildEingefügtes Bild

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Kavinsky
Oh hey' date=' I think I spy a 645-TR on gunbroker.com:[url']http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=344201330
Uhh that's not the TR, that's the 1988 to 1990 4506 with the squared trigger guard and with original 645 nose on it. you can tell if its a TR on it if its got the third gen features but says 645 where it should say 4506
Wow! I can't believe what early 4506s' are going for. :eek: glad I got mine when I did. With spare parts becoming harder to find it's still surprising to me so many people want these. True it's a great pistol' date=' but I'd I had been Sonny, I would of gone back to the Sig 220 in .45ACP similar to the one Sonny had in the pilot and latter in Season 5 when he became "Bad Sonny".[/quote']Well its an all steel pistol in the land of Polymer and Alloy, it sticks out and its an early model with good features and that one is MINT.plus well the alloys here still go for 350 to 450, those are 500 to 650, and that is an especially clean example of the 2 year run with the old trigger guard, so the price is warranted. and I got my 645 in very good condition with original box and magazines for 600so I'm just wondering what happened to the original box and the original grips, that was something else I forgot to mention. The 4506 and 645 TR used a weird kind of new grip that works but doesnt leave alot of room for customization

http-~~-//www.youtube.com/watch?v=rCLbpkmDpPY

it has to be taken off with a punch, basically they rigged it up so its held on by the mainspring housing on the backstrap which saved on money, cost of machining in the checkering on the backstrap and all that like on the 645but however it can be switched with the palmswell grips of the 10MM series like the 1076, although there may be a little bit of a gap.and well the Sig Sauer 220 is just well frankly not that special and seems overpriced for what it is, a safetyless blocky Alloy framed DA/SA with a decocker for 800+and the only one that seemed to have any artistic vision to its design was the first model with a heel mag release that got sort of uglier after that.Eingefügtes Bild

http-~~-//www.youtube.com/watch?v=PWPzwz-sk0A

Eingefügtes Bildhell looks like the finish got a downgrade here from the first to the second, first one seems almost gloss in that video.So its not really that special a gun to me.... seems like everyones had a sig sauer 22X series at some point at this pointand anyone can make a gun like that, all steel though, stainless for no less than a G nowadays is quite rare and even if the price has gone up I'd sooner have a 659 or a 5906 over a Sig 226 anyday really. or the 92F from Die Hard with the John Mcclain mods done to it.but in fairness I bet the frame is longer on the Sig Sauer 220 than the 1911, so it probably fits the hand better in that regard, 7 rounds seems a little short for my hand I've noticed.as when firing the colt series 80 national match it does some serious wear to the web of my hand, same with the Kimber overtime but at a much lower rate with that built in bevertail.645 however, 200 + rounds on the first range trip, no hickups and no fatigue or wear on my handactually havent shot either of those in awhile now that I got the 645, also surprisingly good trigger on my 645, no hitch at all it seems and very smooth, tight and good.mind you it was NIB.

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Lifeguard
Uhh that's not the TR' date=' that's the 1988 to 1990 4506 with the squared trigger guard and with original 645 nose on it. you can tell if its a TR on it if its got the third gen features but says 645 where it should say 4506[/quote']I noticed the 4506 on it, but didn't know the old slide was still in use when they started tagging it with the 4506. I was just looking at wrap around grips on the frame and the 645 sights on the slide like on Crockett's season 5 sidearm. So the first 200 (or last 200 depending how you look at it) of the 4506 had the "465" on the frame? Then they started putting 4506 on the frame for an unspecified number before they went to the later slide and sights? Were the updated sights included with the wider 1009 style frame, or introduced before the change in the frame? So Crockett's S&W in season 5 did have the 645 on the frame then? (I'm sure it wasn't one of the 200 transitional production models, S&W probably custom built the blank firing models that they gave the production.)Thanks.

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Lifeguard

There's not much info about the evolution of the 4506 online, so I've been looking at pictures on a google image search trying to figure out what the steps of development were. I know it starts with the first 200 or so that were marked 465 that had the hooked trigger guard, 465 style sights, and the wrap around grip. And that it eventually became the 4506-1 with the rounded trigger guard and 4506 style sights. But what were the steps in between? Did the slide and sights change first? Did the 1006 width come out when they introduced the 1006 in 1990? Are all rounded triggers the wider 1006 frame? Was the 4506 first sold in 1988 like Wikipedia stated, or was it in 1989 like IMDB says? I'm trying to sort out this little mystery to try and get a handle on what to look for in an early 4506. Thanks.

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Lifeguard
Uhh that's not the TR' date=' that's the 1988 to 1990 4506 with the squared trigger guard and with original 645 nose on it. you can tell if its a TR on it if its got the third gen features but says 645 where it should say 4506[/quote']I found a reference online that said the 4506-1 was introduced in 1992. Is that correct? So:645 '85-'88645-TR '88 (about 200 made) square trigger guard, 645 sight, Xenoy wrap around grip4506 '88-'90 square trigger guard, 645 sight, Xenoy wrap around grip4506 '91-'92 (intermediate?) square trigger guard, Novak sight, Xenoy wrap around grip4506-1 '92-'99 (1006 frame?) rounded trigger guard, Novak sight, Xenoy wrap around gripIs this correct?So the '88-'90 4506 is a passable substitute for Crockett's season 5 sidearm? Just the model number on the frame is different?

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Kavinsky
I noticed the 4506 on it' date=' but didn't know the old slide was still in use when they started tagging it with the 4506. I was just looking at wrap around grips on the frame and the 645 sights on the slide like on Crockett's season 5 sidearm. So the first 200 (or last 200 depending how you look at it) of the 4506 had the "465" on the frame? Then they started putting 4506 on the frame for an unspecified number before they went to the later slide and sights? Were the updated sights included with the wider 1009 style frame, or introduced before the change in the frame? So Crockett's S&W in season 5 did have the 645 on the frame then? (I'm sure it wasn't one of the 200 transitional production models, S&W probably custom built the blank firing models that they gave the production.)Thanks.[/quote']There was no 645 Sights on the 4506's or the 645 TR's by then. the man who did the overhaul, Wayne Novak had standarized his front sights for all of the third gens.making them dovetails.also if you didnt know the way to tell what gen it is is quite simpleit was started in the 1950's where they renamed the 44 magnum, to the model 29, as Back then they were just called by specific names.like KIT gun, for your out in the woods hunting Kit to kill little animals for food or skin to sell, hence K 22. Kit in .22 Caliber, Kit in .38 but the K38 was also a match gun.so they started changing it to Model 29 and Model 14 for the K38, although I dont know what the K22 was renamed into.then for the second gens they were given 3 numbers, like say the Model 59, the double stack version of the Model 39, the grandfather of the 645, they renamed it 459.4 for alloy, 5 for blued steel and for stainless 6.There's basically a language to the whole thing.For the Third gens it was 4 numbers and the END number seemed to denote what it was made out of, 1006, STAINLESS, 4506 STAINLESS, 6906, Stainless but also with an alloy framethen the 4505 which was a rare blued version of it built in the 1990'salso 4006, STAINLESS also, one of the few .40's that was properly sized up for it, like the Sig Sauer 229 and 239, the glock however was well I already told you thatand it was 645 on the frame, not 4506, remember they switched around the 6 and put in a zero. the frame like I said I dont think had anything to do with the 1006 or the 4006 in development but rather just basic handling characteristics.making it much easier to grip as a single stack can be tricky to get a hold of under live fire with a thin grip, unless you have small hands. I dont think it was custom made as well you saw how many 645's they were given in that shot, and smith and wesson probably got a major boone from having the gun in the show just like Wellcraft with the scarab and ferrari with the testarossa.both of which gave don a free boat and car so they kind of felt gratitude and gave him the latest they could get even if it was in prototype stages, and the guy at the bren ten forums had said that he had seen it and it was definitely a 645 TR.I mean they did give him a really early 645 in the first place and possibly some custom guns for the burnett saga.so I kinda think its factory and they did sometimes back then do custom jobs like that before the 1990's.not 645 sights for the 645 TR, its novak style already, can see it in the photos, even has the ramp and it was novak for all 4506's, there insert sights that can be replacedhttp://www.miamiviceonline.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=8083&stc=1&d=1371092942http://www.miamiviceonline.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=8081&stc=1&d=1371092938http://www.miamiviceonline.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=8082&stc=1&d=1371092940Vs the Second Gen Eingefügtes Bildhttp://www.imfdb.org/wiki/Smith_%26_Wesson_645 the 645, 1985 to 1988 had a front sight that was molded into the slide with an insert, not unlike the model 29 eastwood hadEingefügtes BildEingefügtes Bild just that the insert was black, possibly from a no earth tones rule on the show, which is probably what's tripping you up here. while the stock model 39 series guns had no insert and just a molded in front sight like all guns up until that time period for the smith and wesson semi automatic line.First Gen:http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/Smith_%26_Wesson_39Second Gen:http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/Smith_%26_Wesson_639until the time the third gens hit and they all went to the novak system http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/Smith_%26_Wesson_5906note the start date on the 5906, 1989, vice's last year, maybe the thirds came out first so they needed a pre production or the earliest model they could get, hence the 645 TRand for the latter guns well they got uglier, black coated hammers and billboards all along the sides, really ugly looking SOBsEingefügtes BildVs the 1989 lookEingefügtes Bildhttp://www.imfdb.org/wiki/Smith_%26_Wesson_4506

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Gary1911A1

My pick of the Third Generation S&W Large Frame Autos is the 1076. Not quiet as long with it's Commander type slide and a Sig like decocker verses the regular S&W safety on the slide that you don't have to worry about activating accidentally while cycling the slide. Besides it's in 10MM too.:thumbsup: I have never understood why people pay so much money for a Sig220ST that Bruce Grey has converted to 10MM when the S&W 1076 has the same features for a lot less money.:birdie:

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Kavinsky

My pick of the Third Generation S&W Large Frame Autos is the 1076. Not quiet as long with it's Commander type slide and a Sig like decocker verses the regular S&W safety on the slide that you don't have to worry about activating accidentally while cycling the slide. Besides it's in 10MM too.:thumbsup: I have never understood why people pay so much money for a Sig220ST that Bruce Grey has converted to 10MM when the S&W 1076 has the same features for a lot less money.:birdie:

Hmm I dont know, but does the 1076 require a spring that is probably 7 pounds heavier than the 1006 for full power loads given its 4 inch barrel?as I heard that well when the FBI started up with it they did have some problems with it back then.

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Gary1911A1

Surprisingly Wolf Spring Co. List the factory recoil spring for the 1066 and 1076 at 17# while they list the factory recoil spring for the full size 1006 and 1026 at 18#.:eek: I know the FBI and eventually the Ky. State Police went to a light loaded 10MM round and Kentucky's 1076 lasted about a decade before being replaced by the Glock 35. One of mine is a Ky. State 1076 and it's in fine shape. http://www.gunsprings.com/Semi-Auto%20Pistols/SMITH%20%26%20WESSON/NUMBERED%20SERIES/cID1/mID58/dID261

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Kavinsky

Surprisingly Wolf Spring Co. List the factory recoil spring for the 1066 and 1076 at 17# while they list the factory recoil spring for the full size 1006 and 1026 at 18#.:eek: I know the FBI and eventually the Ky. State Police went to a light loaded 10MM round and Kentucky's 1076 lasted about a decade before being replaced by the Glock 35. One of mine is a Ky. State 1076 and it's in fine shape. http://www.gunsprings.com/Semi-Auto%20Pistols/SMITH%20%26%20WESSON/NUMBERED%20SERIES/cID1/mID58/dID261

hmmm guess that explains some of the early issues with them then. wonder if they changed to a heavier spring like the 1006 and glock require for full on 10mm, 22 to 24 pounds latter in the run and it just wasnt listed somewhere.I mean 17 is only 3 pounds heavier than the .45 spring.

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