agent 47 Posted June 16, 2009 Report Share Posted June 16, 2009 I say we have a witch hunt to find them!Get the torches!! Rile up the huddled masses and the villiage idiots!! We must destroy the monster!!!!! Frankenstein!!!!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papa Legba Posted June 16, 2009 Report Share Posted June 16, 2009 The episode is a 10 - only since I can't "go to 11" (courtesy of Spinal Tap).I agree. I think this is the only episode where I'd want to actually go above 10. Although "Tale of the Goat" and "Whatever works" are my favourite episodes' date=' I still think that "Definately Miami" is the [b']best episode of the lot. It`s just pure Vice!This is an episode where I pretty much like every scene in the episode. My favourite scene being the very first. I must have watched it at least a hundred times. There were a few goofs in this episode though. The first one (which is more of a deliberate illusion than a goof) is the scene where the cars are travelling towards the quarry. This is also a spot that myself, DanJ, SoFlaJeremy, and Baron Samedi visited. The quarry is actually in the background, and the cars are actually filmed travelling away from the quarry. Why they filmed it this way round I don't know. Personally I never thought the fact that you can't see the Digger that Charlie uses to bury the Porsche when he drives away to be a goof. I just assumed that the Digger was supposed to be out of the view of the camera.Some great dialogue in the pool scene. In the days back on .org, someone (think it was the infamous Mr Bravo), pointed out that the day that scene was filmed it was of course supposed to be red hot. However the scene was actually filmed late in 1985, during the storm season. If you look in the background, you can see the dark clouds coming in, and you can tell that it's quite windy. What I can't understand is, if it's supposed to be so hot then why is Crockett still wearing his jacket? Then again I suppose it was only Tubbs that was complaining of the heat at the time. I've been to the area where they filmed this scene (think it's the Four Points Sheritan?). Unfortunately the balcony where Crockett and Tubbs were sitting has gone. Part of the balcony still remains, but it cuts off at the point where Tubbs was standing making the phonecall to Castillo. Also, the circular bar with the huge mirror in the lobby has now gone. The whole area is now just an open plan lobby area with possibly a smaller bar at the back.Regarding the dialogue, I liked Tubbs' "if he looked like that i'd give him mine" remark. I also thought Crockett's sarcasm was funny "I waited all day here for a Gopher?", and "Well what does he want a note from my mother?". The second goof in this episode was of course where the "Gopher" runs away and starts off dry, then ends up sopping wet. I've a vague memory of someone back on .org saying that they'd discovered some of the script which said that he'd actually fallen in the pool. I wonder if they actually filmed that part in the scene and then cut it out?The third goof is where you see Crockett standing by the window in the Safe house waiting for Callie to come in to the room. Look to the left hand screen and you will see a ghostly hand move amongst the plants.It occured to me how Tubbs hit the nail on the head when he said that Callie was perhaps playing a competition game. At the end of the day she didn't really care who she was with. She would go with whoever had the most to offer her. She also pretty much admitted this herself when she told Crockett that her whole life revolved around finding one man who will give her whatever she needs. I liked Arielle Dombasle's acting when Crockett asks Callie to be honest with him and Callie looks away very sheepishly before composing her (presumably well practiced) acting face while she looks at Crockett and says "How can I lie to you?". I also like Jan Hammer's imitation guitar riff when Charlie sits down after beating Crockett up. A subtle reference to Nugent's style of music?Maria Rojas' attorney was played by the same guy who played Bob (Caroline's second husband). He also appeared as a Prosecutor/Attorney in "Line of fire".I also liked DJ's acting during the scene where he calls round to the Safehouse to visit Callie after Charlie beats her up. As soon as she starts talking about setting up a drug deal, you can see Crockett's face change, as if that's when the penny drops that he's definately being set up. I felt that the only reason that he asked her if she wanted him to kill Charlie was in order to test her reaction. Once he hugs Callie you can see the look on his face says it all.I also thought that was a great line from Crockett "The head and the heart Rico, sure like to get em together just once".The final goof I spotted was in the final scene where you see Crockett driving towards the quarry. If you look closely, to begin with you can see that the car is in fact the Porsche that was driven by the drug dealer at the beginning of the episode. Only when the camera angle changes does it then change to Crockett in his car.The final scene is in my opinion, the best scene from any Vice episode. I love how the picture changes from a view of the cement dunes to Callie's sandcastles, maintaining the perspective. This was similar to "The Prodigal Song" where the view of Crockett running through the streets changes to a similar perspective of the pavement that Tubbs walks on to get to Valerie's apartment. I like how Callie's belief that Charlie was victorious shapes her perception of Crockett as being Charlie. Then once her eyes get accustomed to what she's seeing, the reality of what's happened hits her and then she then puts on her acting again.Again I thought DJ's acting was great during the final beach scene. He was falling for Callie, and is clearly hurt, but puts his shades on because he doesn't want to show her that she's got to him. He's putting on a cold front. Also, it's almost like he's putting up a barrier, like a "talk to the hand" kinda thing. As Callie is escorted off, Crockett walks away in the opposite direction to signify he's moving on. But this is really for Callie's benefit. It's his way of showing his defiance. As soon as the helecopter pulls away and she can no longer see him, there's no need to walk anymore. Crockett drops his barrier, stops walking, and stares out to sea as the emotional gravity of the experience sinks in.Vice at it's best. 10 out of 10. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy Vercetti Posted June 16, 2009 Report Share Posted June 16, 2009 (think it was the infamous Mr Bravo)Who? the only Mr. Bravo I know isAnd Crockett waited all day for a Gopher? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papa Legba Posted June 16, 2009 Report Share Posted June 16, 2009 (think it was the infamous Mr Bravo)Who? the only Mr. Bravo I know isAnd Crockett waited all day for a Gopher?Lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodriguezisdead Posted June 16, 2009 Report Share Posted June 16, 2009 Just picking-up on the 4 out of 10 rating - interestingly the spread of scores for this ep are almost identical to what we had on the 'other' site a few years back - there was even one 4 rating then as well. But as I've mentioned elsewhere the scores on .ws are less sensitive to 'unusually high or low' scores for a particular ep as there are more of us voting this time round on average. So it actually means that this ep is currently rated top of Season 2 so far - with or without the 4 rating. So if the 4 was given simply to sabotage the ratings, it's not worked!I'll hopefully review this ep later today or tomorrow - I want to re-watch it first - saw it a few weeks ago and there are some shots in it that are classic classic Vice in terms of style - in my book that will probably make it at least an 8, perhaps even higher. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D. Posted June 16, 2009 Report Share Posted June 16, 2009 Originally Posted by Papa Legba "(think it was the infamous Mr Bravo)"Yes, he said a hurricane was rolling in while they were shooting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodriguezisdead Posted June 16, 2009 Report Share Posted June 16, 2009 OK just rewatched this - want to review properly later but now just getting a rating in - I raise my estimate of an 8 from earlier to a final score of 9 - rare for me to give 9's or above - will explain why I think this ep is well worth it in the next day or two. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodriguezisdead Posted June 18, 2009 Report Share Posted June 18, 2009 There's no doubt in my mind that this is the kind of ep that separates those who might not mind watching Vice from time to time if the story's good enough (which this ep is not a good example of) from those who love the unique style of Vice (which this ep is a classic example of).Love most scenes in this ep. Opening 'tanning' scene is superb - love the colours - banter between C&T is lovely to watch - and of course Callie is something else - even the sax track is excellent.Is it a safe-house where Sonny first takes Callie? What a place! Clothes and colours in the bedroom look so cool it's untrue.The scene where C&T walk the beach together and the camera moves with them to take in the buildings in the background and Sonny says '[in love] with Burnett' is another beautiful looking scene.As is the one where we get that awful 'decoy' for the sister - the camera again moves beautifully around an extremely cool-looking C&T as the limo races past - the background shot is superb and C&T seldom look so brooding. For me this might be the best scene in the entire ep - the visuals are stunning.Love Rico's suits and acting and gun in this ep - this for me is how he should always have looked - can't believe what they did to his wardrobe by the time we hit Season 5.They use silence more than once in this ep to great effect - the obvious scene is the final one where Sonny doesn't have to say anything, but Castillo standing over the Fed guy near the end is also wonderful.I don't mind the final scene but I don't like the helicopter being used - a bit too much for me! More meaningful and credible scenes (although still superbly stylish) occur throughout Season 3 - and that's the core difference for me between Seasons 2 & 3.Clemenza getting murdered by his sister was also a classic MV twist - stupidly I didn't see it coming so I loved this - more classic Vice style I guess.Once Sonny is on to Callie's game I love his acting - he looks so hurt - so much for being 'immune' ! Compare his acting here to after he finds out Theresa's game or his lover's illicit ways in By Hooker By Crook - you could do a whole study just on that idea.I think I rate this a 9 simply for it's overpowering style. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chum981 Posted June 18, 2009 Report Share Posted June 18, 2009 Well commented r-isdeadIf you love MV, you'll like this episode just because of the visuals...Yes, the story is a little weak, esp. compared to Payback and Evan, but there is no MV episode like Def. Miami in the whole series. Rob Cohen did a great job...The viewer ends up falling in love with Miami, if they haven't fallen in love already. Surely if you were going to show five episodes to a newcomer who didn't know anything about MV, this episode would be one of them... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papa Legba Posted June 18, 2009 Report Share Posted June 18, 2009 Once Sonny is on to Callie's game I love his acting - he looks so hurt - so much for being 'immune' ! Compare his acting here to after he finds out Theresa's game or his lover's illicit ways in By Hooker By Crook - you could do a whole study just on that idea.My take on this is that in the other two cases, Crockett's relationship with Theresa and Christine had developed much further, and he had no idea that there was a problem until the problem surfaced. Therefore by the point that the problem surfaced, he'd let his guard down and opened his heart much more to them. As a result he was much more hurt when he felt they had betrayed him. In Callie's case, Crockett started to fall for her right from the start. However he always knew that something wasn't right, and suspected that she was using him or setting him up. Therefore, he put a break on his heart getting further sucked in until he knew for definite one way or the other. This, together with the fact that he had not known Callie for very long, meant that he wasn't as hurt by her betrayal as with the other two, as the emotional depth of the relationship had not been fully consolidated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodriguezisdead Posted June 18, 2009 Report Share Posted June 18, 2009 Hmmm I really don't know - you might be right Papa, but I just get the feeling that Sonny ultimately never really learned in love matters - it kind of makes him even more likeable. I suppose he did eventually learn with what happened to Caitlin and I'm not sure he'd ever love the same way again after that (I'm not including things which I'd call more platonic, like the girl at the end of Bad Timing). I always felt that he got more and more desperate to have a great love in his life as the show proceeded - by Season 3 it was like his professional life was so difficult in terms of losing people, being betrayed by lovers, seeing the justice system repeatedly fail, that he wanted at least some small part of his life to be beautiful.And as he got more and more desperate for that love the disappointment was more and more intense when it didn't work out - I get a feeling that by the end of By Hooker By Crook he really is emotionally 'spent' - he was at his most enraged (at least initially) with Theresa, but then look at how he became so supportive to her by the end of that ep (albeit we never see her again!!) - with Christine I remember one very sad scene at OCB where the whole team's sorrow for Sonny is written on their faces (especially Gina's) but Sonny is almost blank in expression - he looks to have become 'cold' - he seems to have finally learned - at least that is until he meets Caitlin but that took some time - at least another Season. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papa Legba Posted June 18, 2009 Report Share Posted June 18, 2009 with Christine I remember one very sad scene at OCB where the whole team's sorrow for Sonny is written on their faces (especially Gina's) but Sonny is almost blank in expression - he looks to have become 'cold' - he seems to have finally learned - at least that is until he meets Caitlin but that took some time - at least another Season.I think he was probably in shock! Once the gravity of the revelation sank in' date=' he was quite hard and cold with Christine (probably out of embarassment if nothing else), but I don't think he was really in a position to be angry with her. Not only did she never actually lie to him, but he was just as economical with the truth with her as she was with him (he never told her he was a cop in the same way that she never told him that she was a Madam). However with Theresa, Crockett was understandibly angry because he'd just found out that his own girlfriend was part of a conspiracy to not only discredit his investigation but also to possibly lose him his job and send him to prison. Anyway, we digress.With regards to "Definately Miami", I'm still surprised at the common concensus that the episode is considered a prime example of style over substance. I agree that having two concurrent storylines in one episode means that both are spread thin, but that doesn't mean that the storylines have to be bad ones. Tubbs hits the nail on the head when he says "Some weird kind of symmetry.. both things going down today", and there [b']was a symmetry to both stories. Both dealt with love, trust, and betrayal, and both ended in death. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chum981 Posted June 18, 2009 Report Share Posted June 18, 2009 was a symmetry to both stories. Both dealt with love, trust, and betrayal, and both ended in death.Yeah maybe the story (stories) deserve more credit. i think it might be because the style is 11/10 - everything else seems second tier. The acting by Albert Hall is good, but again, most just keep remembering the style, because it was 11/10 and because there is no other episode like it...I think a simplish story line complimented the immense style. Perhaps the simplicity of the story emphasised the style more.For example when the Limo is going past the cops, and they show the cops in almost slo-mo with the great combo of colors, visuals...they couldn't have done that powerful imagery with an intensely packed story as there wouldn't have been time in a 45 minute episode. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chum981 Posted June 18, 2009 Report Share Posted June 18, 2009 i can't stop loving this episode, and other than perhaps a disliking to the story, i don't understand why people would not rate this at least a 9...we need some more explanations form those who rated it not so high. (I know the glossary gives it a 2/5 and an explanation is given) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papa Legba Posted June 18, 2009 Report Share Posted June 18, 2009 we need some more explanations form those who rated it not so highLike the person who rated it as a 4. Lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chum981 Posted June 19, 2009 Report Share Posted June 19, 2009 Like the person who rated it as a 4. LolThat was my way of encouraging the "4-giver" of explaining!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chum981 Posted June 19, 2009 Report Share Posted June 19, 2009 I was thinking, maybe it was a finger slip by the 4-giver! They were aiming for a higher number, but clicked on the wrong one instead. Unfortunately you can't undo your selection once you've submitted... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papa Legba Posted June 19, 2009 Report Share Posted June 19, 2009 I was thinking' date=' maybe it was a finger slip by the 4-giver! [/quote']Clearly it must be.. I mean this is "Definately Miami" we're talking about! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy Vercetti Posted June 19, 2009 Report Share Posted June 19, 2009 It would be highly erroneous to say that this episode had a story to match the style Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chum981 Posted June 19, 2009 Report Share Posted June 19, 2009 I know I keep going on about this episode, but its fantastic!You can just chill out and watch it again and again. Its great for escapism. It takes you far away and into some sort of happy place! :happy:Some of my favorite quotes from Def. Miami:“She’s too conservative for you.â€â€œI get these occasional urges for stability in my life.â€â€œThe better you get at this job, the more dangerous it becomes.†“You guys have really got it easy down here – tropical climate, beautiful scenery, laid back place – I could really get used to this†Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chum981 Posted June 19, 2009 Report Share Posted June 19, 2009 “You guys have really got it easy down here – tropical climate' date=' beautiful scenery, laid back place – I could really get used to thisâ€[/quote']And its this quote that does it for me - and not just the quote, but also when its delivered and the way its delivered while sitting in a convertible, with the beach on one side and the water's beautiful blue color, and of course while both Sonny and Rico are rolling their eyes...When I see that, I want to be there. It may not be paradise itself, but it seems to be paradise on earth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vicenarc Posted June 20, 2009 Report Share Posted June 20, 2009 I give this story a full 10! It was suspenseful, romantic, and an ending sequence that really pulls one's heart strings I find. The music score throughout was superb also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgrob Posted June 24, 2009 Report Share Posted June 24, 2009 Good episode. Great music and great scenery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkneon Posted October 31, 2009 Report Share Posted October 31, 2009 i would have given it a 10, but due to some weakness in the plot i must be honest with myself and give it a 9.still, like a lot of you guys and gals, i feel this episode captures the essence of miami vice. the style, the drama, the sex, the music...it's all there! this was actually one of the first vice episodes i ever watched, and needless to say i was hooked...what an introduction to an amazing tv show!my favorite scenes would have to be at the end, starting from when crockett is at hq getting ready for his rendezvous with charlie, right up until the end, when crockett stands motionless on the beach, reflecting on what callie did to him....it's just BRILLIANT!and the soundtrack..."cry" by godley & creme, "angry young man" by ted nugent, "europa (earth's cry, heaven's smile)" by gato barbieri...whoever chose the music for this episode was on it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
execatty Posted December 4, 2009 Report Share Posted December 4, 2009 cant say enufftop 10 episodes...maybe top 5 ...the pool scene is definately a top 10 scene...classic mann again...callie, the music, the storyline...both story lines...nugent, a great episode, 10 /10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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