Episode #32 "Back In The World"

[Ferrariman]

Begin posting

[Tony D.]

This episode gives me mixed feelings. The acting is superb, the music exclusively by the "Doors", although unusual, was an excellent choice! Also the Jan Hammer compositions. Crockett looking through his wartime memorabilia, showed a little more about his background & gave me more respect for him. The story was confusing to me, & I still don't understand what Stone was trying to accomplish, unless it was to get the tainted heroin for himself. My wife said this episode was boring, but I found it a little slow moving until the exciting cat & mouse hunt for Maynard & Mung. Why did he wait til Crockett was right on top of him to click off the safety? He should have been all set up for him. How did Crockett know Stone would be alright with 2 bullets in the left side of his chest? I rate this one a 4 for slowness & my confusion. P.S. Dakotah is the same actor/actress that was serial killing in "Love at First Sight" with Sonny using a dating service. This is my rating on .org..........I'm raising it to a 6 / 10 because of the good acting & the cool Vietnam footage!

[maynard]

I liked the opening sequence when they busted the teenagers. favorite scenes:1.Stan in leather2.The van running into the garbage truck3. Stone's office with pictures on wall4. "Incoming" with Mr. MungI agree that some scenes weren't quite believable like Stone getting shot twice in chest with what looked like a 45 out in the middle of nowhere and surviving.(I guess we didn't know for sure until season 3.) Sometimes the plot didn't flow as well as it could.Loved the music and Liddy as Maynard, and Balaban as Stone, he made the character believable. An 8 out of 10 for me.

[Tommy Vercetti]

I'm not too crazy about this one. It is quite good but not spectacular.DJ did a good job directing it. The storyline had potential but wasn't as executed as well as it could've been.There are some good scenes and some weak ones. Ira Stone is annoying but G. Gordon Liddy made an interesting guest star.My favourite part of the episode are the Doors songs as I'm a very big fan of The Doors.Nothing more or less than a good epiode. 7/10

[nmathews]

My original review from March 20 2006A Very long review and comments again! This is another one of my favorite MV episodes. Partly because DJ directs and because it expressed the different opinions of that… Conflict (I will leave out my diatribe against the war as this is not the forum for it.) The Doors music was very relevant to this episode as that music really brought back the political climate of the youth at that time. 1975, I was 22 years old. So I remember the rejoicing and the despair that went through my mind and others of my generation. The evacuation of Saigon in 1975 was really done well, as it looked like actual news footage at the time was intermingled with the filming of the episode scenes. My husband said the reason they were pushing off the helicopters at the time was to make room quickly for the transport helicopters to land, there wasn’t anywhere else to put these other helicopters so they were pushing off the landing spots and into the water. They did a good job at making me believe Crockett was 10 years younger. (DJ almost looked as young as he looked in “a boy and his dog†where DJ was 11 years younger). Stone on the other hand looked just as old as he did in the rest of the episode. The thing to remember here is that this episode originally aired in 1985 only 10 years after the evacuation of Saigon. The Vietnam memorial was a hot issue, and most people wanted to forget what had happened. As that vet said in the VA center the public was just beginning to remember who they were. As Crockett himself said they were used, exploited and forgotten to the max. This episode showed that very well. Fast forward 10 years later from the evacuation and we have Crockett and Tubbs waiting to bust some drug runners. Why were Crockett and Tubbs in their undercover clothes on a DEA Bust? Crockett says they were waiting there all night. In Prodigal Son when they busted the Revillas in the swamp along with the DEA, they were all in dark police uniforms. Why weren’t they here? I can’t see that they would have been trying to be Cooper and Burnett so what was the point of not being in Uniform, or at least darker clothing? Stone is quite a character. He’s conflicted throughout this whole thing. He began the story on the Sargent in Vietnam, and has been obsessed with it for 10 years. He begins really wanting to finish it, but then he gets addicted on the heroin probably with his psychological problems and little post traumatic stress syndrome, and the harpy of a wife of his, he’s turned to the very thing he was writing about. Part of him wanted to do the story and get it published, but a bigger part of him wanted to make some big money and maybe even escape back into using some drugs. Obviously he lies to Sonny about Maynard not knowing anything because by that time he’s set up a meet to blackmail him. I don’t know how long it took Sonny to find Maynard, but we see early on that Stone is leaving messages for Maynard as the hotel person pretends to be his secretary. The whole scene where Stone runs off with Sonny’s Daytona is quite unbelievable. Of course it’s good that Sonny and Rico didn’t have the Daytona when they ran into the trash truck! I loved the scenes inside the Carlyle and the use of the dialogue to explain why Stone thought the heroin was from the old KIA bags, and why after it was smuggled into the country the Seargent hadn’t sold it off after 10 years. I also liked the night scene where Crockett and Stone are on the Scarab and Sonny’s telling Stone about some things in the war that he saw. It was like they were just talking about being over there in mudholes when all of a sudden the quiet of Biscayne Bay (at least it looked like Biscayne Bay) is interrupted by Mortar fire of all things. Stone automatically stands and takes a picture while Sonny is trying to escape! (Sounds like Tubbs ran a make on another of Sonny’s friends. He doesn’t believe Stone for a minute after they leave him off at the Alexander entrance where we see him talking to Mrs. Stone.) The scene with Mrs. Stone was an interesting way to get the information Sonny and Rico needed to follow up and see what Stone was doing. Also Rico tries to retain cover, while Sonny breaks it. Tubbs†Import/Export†Mrs. Stone “what you look like a couple of Glue pushers to me†Crockett “No, I’m a friend.†Sonny and Rico run Dakota down and get her to tell him where Stone is meeting her source. The truck was a good choice for inconspicuous for a warehouse district, but again. Sonny seemed kind of careless. OK, he climbs up and into the warehouse and remains unobserved as he’s in another room and can hear Stone blackmailing Maynard but comeon! Maynard is a spook highly trained. Even if Stone didn’t realized Crockett was walking out after them and slipping into the truck (you should have been able to see him in the rear view mirror) Maynard should have made him and probably did since he set up the trash truck to stop them. I mean Sonny was easy to see! I liked the scene on the boat where Crockett is going through his old Air Cav things. My husband saw a good conduct medal, his dog tags, a purple heart and a silver cross among other things. (I paused the scene and had him identify some things for me.) Crockett’s a hero? Well we know he saved the guy in buddies several times, and he and his buddy saved the POW’s that some people wanted to leave behind so maybe that’s what some of the medals are for.). Not only Stone is letting Crockett down, but now someone he kind of liked and looked up to,,Maynard, let him down also. He says Stone is selling out, and he, Crockett, kind of liked Maynard. Poor Sonny! OK, I can see why Sonny and Rico went to Maynard’s in their undercover clothes, and talked to his wife, but when his wife relayed the message, and said the place had no phone and was male’s rugged fantasy, why in the world didn’t Crockett at least change out of his easy to see Pastel, into some kind of functional darker clothing. Rico at least was in a dark coat and pants. But he knew that Maynard was a spook, and that the place was isolated. It’s interesting that Sonny recognizes immediately after Stone is shot, and Maynard and his friend have left the room, that they weren’t trying to escape that they had to kill him and Tubbs. Tubbs was in police mode. They could be anywhere he thought they were trying to get away. Sonny automatically reverts to soldier mode. They got to kills us so we got to get them first mentality. Mr. Mung was supposed to be seasoned fighter why didn’t he already have the safety off? I guess Maynard decided to run and leave Sonny the heroin rather than fight after Sonny killed Mung in self defense. Maybe because he realized that Sonny hadn’t lost his skill if anything it was honed sharper, or maybe he figured the odds were against him trying to kill Sonny and Tubbs and the better odds was to escape. Since the heroin was left by Stone, Stone actually had an ending to his story if he dared publish it, but like Crockett said before, nobody would believe him. The Doors music was a very good choice for this episode. Strange Days … Certainly described what was going in Saigon at the time. It must have been surreal after all those years to have to pack-up and get out. Close the US Embassy, push helocopters off landing pads, stashing heroin in KIA bags. Crystal ship: "Before I slip into unconciousness...The days and night are filled with pain...." This was a good song to desciribe how the Veterans were feeling and coping with things they just wanted to slip into forgetfulness and be without pain. They also felt forgotten. Five to One: This was good song to discover Harold’s shoot up deadly result.. 5-1 you’re not going to get out alive. Road house Blues: A nice honkytonk kind of mood for The End bar where Dakota does her business and they end up in a bathroom stall. The music conveys the atmosphere. I’m a spy: What a great comment on Sonny and Stone and Maynard Stone was something other than a journalist, Sonny was something other than a veteran and Captain Realestate was more then just a spook. Break on through: Wonderful song with energy for Sonny to follow Stone and Maynard and realize that Stone is selling out. Everything is destroyed in his perception of who Stone was and he can’t hide from it or run from it. I Cant’s see your face: I’m not sure if the words are so relevant but the jungle like instruments as they are going down the river silently although Crockett looked funny trying to steer with the pole in a pastel good jacket. He should have been wearing something more appropriate. My Eyes have seen you: Wonderful choice for the skulking, hide, and attack sequence, the camera work with the showing of the various characters eyes too made this music have poignancy. Also it was just tension filled enough to convey the cat and mouse aspect of the hunter and hunted though they were both hunter and hunted. Jan Hammer’s music use was interesting. It kind of showed things normal, After the intense hunt scene as soon as the boat starts up and escapes, Jan Hammer’s music comes on bringing everybody back from the edge of search and kill to wrapping up things and getting out of there. Also after the beginning sequence the use of Jan Hammer’s music to get us out of Vietnam and back to Crockett and Tubbs 1985 doing their normal thing. I rate this episode a 9. It’s confusing in parts, but it is so well done and the music choices were spot on. The characters Stone, Maynard the Vets in this episode are deep and complex and somewhat conflicted, and that includes Sonny Crockett himself. 6/1/2009I still agree with my review of a few years ago. I recently watched it again, and my feelings are still the same.

[Guest neworder]

I personally believe that Back in the World is a good episode, not fantastic but nevertheless very decent. Its got some pretty decent scenes, like the boat vs mortar and the ending scenes in the glades were top class. The doors music used was good, i personally dont like much music older than 1980's stuff so for me to not mind the music in this episode is quite an achievement, it works well with the episode. Some great Hammer music in this episode too, and Gordon Liddy was fantastic in his part, the watergate scandel in his background in real life enhanced the mysteriousness of the character for me, great character for vice and of course returns in Stones War. So negatives. Well, Stone can be a bit weak in the acting department, it takes a few views to fully understand whats going on and Stones wife is very annoying. Also, the motives of what stone was doing as mentioned by others here is a confusing story issue!Overall however, this is a good episode, which is loosely continued in the even better Stones War at the beginning of Season 3. I rate this 8/10 because it does many things well, but there are a few issues with the story and acting.

[Lar]

7/10. Good episode, but I prefer S3's Stone's War. Still a solid a S2 ep.

[Shill]

the worst of season 2. No real "vice feel" with this one. Not a big fan of 60's music and one to miss. 2 out of 10

[timm525]

Here is something I posted last August on this subject but thought it fitting to remention: Original link, click ---> hereBack in the World. Maynard's Crimes. I for one liked G. Gordon Liddy’s character of Maynard, but hated that whinny little s**t Stone.I thought that after “Back in the World” ep, it was a little silly to see his character return in “Stone’s War” because he would have had so many warrants out for his arrest, he would have been scooped up and thrown in prison for life or death by every state and federal agency known to man.Why didn’t Crockett arrest him on the spot in “Stone’s War” when he kidnapped Stone and had him in the parking garage in exchange for the tape. He had Maynard and Stone both in one place and there would have been a boat load of warrants out for his arrest. Not to mention Sonny would have had to have had a SWAT team covering the garage. But that is another story and not included in his charges below.Just off the cuff, here’s a few items I came up with just for fun to see what charges Maynard would have had (just in “Back in the World” only) and how much time he would have been looking at. Most all of these are felonies in the state of Florida and are by current Florida Statutes of today. This does not include any Federal violations of ATF and or any RICO statutes and years of imprisonment.Conspiracy to commit murder. Stone’s wife by Mr. Hmung. 1st degree felony, 30 years in prisonAttempted murder of Stone. Shooting stone at end of show. A life felony not exceeding 40 years.2 counts of attempted murder of a law enforcement officer. (Crockett and Tubbs, one count each in the Everglades). 1st degree felony. 30 years for each count for a total of 60 years in prison.2 counts of conspiracy to committ murder of a law enforcement officer. (Crockett and Tubbs in the van chasing Maynard), 1st degree felony, 30 years each count for a total of 60 years in prison. 1 count of conspiracy to commit murder of a law enforcement officer. The attempted murder of Crockett on the boat when Mr. Hmung was shooting mortars at them. 1st degree felony, 30 years in prison.1 count of conspiracy to commit murder. The attempted murder of Stone on the boat when Mr. Hmung was shooting mortars at them. 1st degree felony. 30 years in prison Fleeing and eluding of a law enforcement officer. 3rd degree felony. 5 years in prison. Possession of narcotics with intent to distribute. Heroine brought back from Nam. 3rd degree felony. 5 years in prison. Possession of a firearm while committing a felony. (Even if he had a concealed weapons permit back then, it would be null and void upon committing of a felony.) 3rd degree felony. 5 years in prison. Murder of the folks that purchased the heroine from Maynard. That is a capital felony and he gets the death penalty for each one. Murder of Mr. Hmung. Anyone involved in the commission of a felony that results in the death of another person is guilty of murder in the first degree. This means Maynard would have been charged with the death of Mr. Hmung even thou Crockett actually shot and killed him. 1st degree felony. 30 years in prison. Obstructing Justice. 3rd degree felony. 5 years in prisonPossession of a destructive device. The mortar used to kill Sonny and Stone in the Scrab. 2nd degree felony. 15 years in prison.Also, by today’s statutes in Florida we currently have what’s called the “10-20-Life” law which states, “use a gun and you’re done” as a slogan. Basically if you use a gun during the commission of a crime you get a mandatory 10 years in prison. If you fire the gun you get 20 years in prison, mandatory. And if you shoot some one, you get an automatic life in prison, mandatory. Do not pass “Go”, do not collect $200.00 dollars. Maynard would have gotten life for using a gun while shooting Stone in today’s world. I did not include this in the years of prison because it was not current during the 80’s as a law.This is just what I can think of for his Florida state crimes in “Back in the World” only. This does not include any federal crimes or any crimes committed in “Stone’s War”. That is another discussion. I think it is safe to say if Maynard was convicted on all counts and received the maximum sentence for all charges, he would most likely have served at least 307 years in a state or federal prison. Not to mention the Death penalty or the two life sentences he would have gotten on top of the 307 years!!!Yep, Maynard would have been in prison for the rest of his life prior to “Stone’s War”.

[Guest neworder]

Yeah he certainly got away with a lot of ****.However, he reminds of a 24 - esk style character, he kept his distance from the crimes and was a careful player, except when he shot Stone and bribed crockett in a sense in Stone's War. After Stone's War yes they had enough to put him away but after Back In The World...i'm not so sure. C & T nor anyone else had hard evidence to proove he par took in any of these activities.

[Papa Legba]

I thought this story was interesting, in terms of my belief that I wouldn't have put it past the CIA to be pulling some of the stunts that Maynard did in Vietnam. But was Maynard representing the interests of the CIA in general with what he was doing, or was he just a complete rogue element within it? Was the fact that he got away with so much due to the fact that he was protected by the CIA himself?I like the Jan Hammer tune that was playing during the drug bust at the beginning of the episode.Seeing as DJ was directing, I'm wondering if it was his status as director that made it able for him to pull some strings to get his love interest at the time, Patti D'arbanville a part in Vice (I hope for Don's sake she didn't act like that in real life though!)The one thing that put me off this episode was the exclusivity of the Doors music that was used. Now personally although I'm not a huge fan of the Doors, I do think they're not bad, but I counted six Doors tunes in the episode and maybe one other from another artist. For me it made the episode a bit one dimensional (from a musical perspective anyway). If they wanted to capture that late 60's/early 70's feel then they could have used other music from other artists from that period to emphasise the feel from that period.Did anyone else notice how Crockett and Stone ended practically every sentance with "man" when they spoke to each other, like they were back in that late 60's Woodstock era.This was another episode where we see a difference of opinion between Crockett and Tubbs. Just like with Robbie in "Buddies", Tubbs is cynical about Crockett's friend's story and his motives, wheras Crockett is ready to give Stone the benefit of any doubt due to how close he is to him. Notice the scene round the table when Stone takes Crockett and Tubbs to lunch. Crockett and Tubbs are sat practically opposite each other, with Stone in the middle, just to emphasise the fact that they are again at opposite ends of an opinion spectrum. When Tubbs starts becoming cynical, Crockett looks at Tubbs as if he's taking exeption to the fact that Tubbs is cynical, but at the same time Crockett's face shows that he has to admit that Tubbs has a good point. I thought DJ acted that very well. If you notice, Crockett appears to have a special bond with his Vietnam buddies. Which of course is only to be expected when you have to work as a team in order to keep each other alive. And that's why he's particular upset when (with both Stone and Robbie), he finds out that they have been lying to him.When Crockett and Stone visit the VA hospital, I noticed Angel from "One eyed Jack" standing in the background (the one armed guy that Tubbs used to set up Vincent De Marco).When Tubbs got shot at the end of the episode, what was the point in him shouting "Medic!" at the top of his voice. He was in the middle of the Everglades and had no way of knowing that Crockett and Tubbs were on their way to come to his rescue. Similarly, what was the point in him shouting "Incoming!" when Mr Mhung was firing rockets at him and Crockett. Crockett was the only one that could save them, and he already knew! Clearly Stone must have thought he was still in Vietnam!I thought the cat and house game in the jungle near the end was a good scene. I think Crockett and Tubbs should have changed into some Khaki's though. Crockett's bright pastel shades would have given him a severe disadvantage over Maynard and Mr Mhung.I thought this was an ok episode, but I'd have to give it 6.5 out of 10.

[Papa Legba]

The story was confusing to me' date=' & I still don't understand what Stone was trying to accomplish, unless it was to get the tainted heroin for himself. [/quote']I'm not sure if Crockett and Tubbs were sure what he was up to either, although Crockett seems to have been right on the money when he said Stone was "selling out". I thought Nancy's interpretation was very good. But there were still one or two things that don't add up. At the party, Maynard genuinely seems to react to Stone as if he has not seen him for at least 10 years. If Stone had already contacted him in order to blackmail him, then Maynard would have reacted in a different way (all be it while still trying to disguise his reaction from Crockett on the assumption that Crockett isn't trying to blackmail him as well). If on the other hand, Stone was planning to blackmail Maynard by the point that he and Crockett go and visit Maynard at the party, then he could have still gone along with Crockett to the party, interviewed Maynard normally (without raising suspicion from Crockett), then just phone Maynard up later and blackmail him then. If Stone was using Crockett and Tubbs to help him find Maynard because he already knew Maynard was the Sergeant and wanted to blackmail him, then why not just get Crockett to get him Maynard's location, and go and speak (and blackmail him) himself. Why is Stone so keen to avoid Maynard at this point?My interpretation was at first it appears that Stone was genuinly committed to finding out the identity and location of the Sergeant. However there seems to have been a point during his journalistic investigation where he realises that Maynard is actually the Sergeant, and for some reason at that point he believes that he can't take his story any further (or maybe just gives in to tempation and sees an easy buck?) His outburst to Maynard may be due to the possibility that having just found out who Maynard really is, that he's that disgusted with Maynard (someone he used to trust) he can't hold back his anger anymore. That's when he starts getting defensive with Crockett. The fact that he steals Crockett's car is because he needs to get away from Crockett's confusion and probing questions, and he basically needs to get home but doesn't want Crockett with him giving him the third degree. By this point he's already decided to change tack and decides to blackmail Maynard. Don't forget that Stone was an active drug user (possibly a Junkie), and therefore he was vulnerable. I can't imagine Stone blackmailing Maynard for drugs, seeing as by this point he knows that Maynard's smack is like poison. I can only assume that he was blackmailing him for cash. The question is, why did Stone feel he couldn't go to press with the story? Did he think Maynard was too powerful and therefore was too much of a threat, or was it just that he saw a way of feeding his possible addiction and like Crockett said, he sold out?

[timm525]

I think that in the beginning Stone was looking at this as his big break out story but as time went on, he realized that he would not be able to prove Maynard was the Sergeant after all. Once he realized he couldn't prove it, the "big story" was moot therefore he then tried to blackmail Maynard for money.If you recall, Stone had nothing left. His rep as a news guy was pretty shaky, his wife was leaving him, he was a junkie to boot and he was broke. So with that being said, his last option was to blackmail.

[Papa Legba]

I think that in the beginning Stone was looking at this as his big break out story but as time went on' date=' he realized that he would not be able to prove Maynard was the Sergeant after all. Once he realized he couldn't prove it, the "big story" was moot therefore he then tried to blackmail Maynard for money.If you recall, Stone had nothing left. His rep as a news guy was pretty shaky, his wife was leaving him, he was a junkie to boot and he was broke. So with that being said, his last option was to blackmail.[/quote']I think you've probably hit the nail on the head. Proving the story may have been a problem, and I think his weakness just sucked him in.

[agent 47]

Coming back to this episode I've got to say I agree more with Tommy now. Everything was there but it felt like the overall execution of the episode didn't feel like it was fleshed out as much as it could've been. Still love the use of The Doors music throughout and G. Gordon Liddy was a solid guest star. Overall I'm dropping it from my old score of 10 to an 8/10.

Edited October 15, 2016 by agent 47
New review due to Blu-ray viewing.

[rodriguezisdead]

This is another good ep. Odd for me to watch some of these eps after watching the 'sequels' if you like. I've watched Stone's War a few times before and I think that's a great ep, but I had no idea that Back in the World was as good as this. Also seems very similar to Stone's War in terms of some of the scenes and styling. Another ep where we find out some of Sonny's combat background in Vietnam and Cambodia (by the way I find it interesting to see how much SE Asia combat seems to affect popular culture in the States - here in the UK I'm not sure we have anything quite like this in recent times). Several eps off the top of my head now that have at least part of the storyline related to times gone by in SE Asia - Buddies, Back in the World, Stone's War, The Savage (in fact most Castillo-centric eps have a SE Asia connection!) - did Mann or Yerkovich or one or another of the writers have tours out there themselves?Something about this ep reminds me of a merger of Apocalypse Now with a James Bond movie - am I going nuts?!Great acting & writing - particularly liked Sonny's spiel at the veteran 'Nam centre about 'just like you we're just looking for some help' - that was a good bit of writing and acted well by DJ - situation could easily have boiled over. Also when the boat is getting mortared at night. Nice touch for Stone to shout 'Incoming' repeatedly. Rico also plays well the typical devil's advocate role we see so often from one or another of the leads in MV.Great directing & cinematography - in fact much of this ep reminds me of a movie - love some of the night scenes on the boat - the chase with the mortars after Sonny's heart-to-heart with Stone is excellent. Also the final hunt in the 'jungle' where Maynard gets away is shot excellently.Also some great music - the Doors playing through much of this ep - never properly experimented with the Doors but these tracks are pretty cool - according to the Glossary here this is the only ep with Doors songs in it? I didn't know that but I suppose I don't recall hearing any thing quite like their music in any of the other eps I've seen.Iman was not fantastic but not sure I expected much of her.I gave Stone's War 8.5 and I think this is only marginally less good an ep. With my noted preference for dark endings I'm sure had Stone died at the end of this ep I would've scored it 8.5 again. But they reserve the darker endings for Season 3 - as I've said elsewhere though recently, I don't mind the less dark endings in Season 2 - it gives you something to compare to when S3 does roll around. And there is enough strength in other areas of this ep to still mark it fairly highly. I give it an 8 out of 10. Better than I expected - not sure why I thought it might not be as good - I think I might've seen too many of the weaker S2 eps in the past. My opinion of S2 is rapidly getting better.

[maynard]

You are right about the SE Asia Combat footage as a part of culture. I was in high school in the 70's, on the tail end of the experience, it affected culture and movies into the 80's, before the Iraq war.When we watch the ep today, we forget that, since Iran and Iraq are in the news today.When you watch it with a 70's mindset, you get a different view...

[Tony D.]

"While I am not giving it 10 out of 10 because I want to save that pleasure for Stone's War, this one gets 9.5 out of 10." - Agent47 Since the Poll doesn't allow 1/2 points, your score will drop to a 9 ?And Rodriquezisdead .... your 8.5 will drop to an 8 or advance to a 9 :confused:

[rodriguezisdead]

Personally I think half marks should be an option on the polls - but as to your question, it's not relevant here as I only score this an 8, not 8.5 - 8.5 is what I gave Stone's War I think - but generally the way I handle the half mark is to round up or down depending on what I think is fairest - I round down if I think to round up would overscore the ep, and vice-versa.

[Papa Legba]

Personally I think half marks should be an option on the polls - but as to your question' date=' it's not relevant here as I only score this an 8, not 8.5 - 8.5 is what I gave Stone's War I think - but generally the way I handle the half mark is to round up or down depending on what I think is fairest - I round down if I think to round up would overscore the ep, and vice-versa.[/quote']That's exactly what I do as well. And I agree that half marks make scoring more precise. Good to see you back on here regularly again, Matey.

[rodriguezisdead]

It was just a matter of trying to find time to get back to watching eps again - I always wanted to watch S1 & S2 in order but stopped watching S1 after a few eps and was reluctant to jump into S2 - anyhow now I think I only have one more S2 ep to watch to have fully caught-up with the reviews.In a way it's easier as I can see more similarities in some things between S2 & S3 than S1 & S3 - it just means my order of viewing is warped! My order of reviewing will probably finally be: S3, S4, S5, S2, then S1 - figure how warped that is!One other thing I wanted to discuss that others have picked-up on with this ep is the issue of an apparently confused or unclear plot. This is interesting and potentially worthy of it's own discussion thread. I remember when I first watched the bulk of MV regularly I was 15 or 16, and many of the plots were unclear to me at that stage, probably because I wasn't an 'adult' yet. In general it didn't matter - you could always get the 'gist' of the plot and there was always something else to appreciate eg. styling, acting, music, hardware, etc. Now over 20 years later most plots are a lot clearer to me.Occasionally the odd plotline is still quite unclear, but in some ways it makes the ep even better - firstly it's as good a reason as any to rewatch the ep, a bit like a song on a new album you might have - some tracks take repeated listening until you like them, but often those are the same tracks you listen to and love the longest. Are MV eps similar?Secondly, the ambiguity over the plotline can add to the whole mystique of MV generally and of the ep in particular - for example, we might even argue on here whether or not we think the writers created the ambiguity intentionally or not.So personally I think I'm always intrigued by a slightly unclear plot, if anything I think it adds to MV's greatness, it doesn't detract.Any thoughts?

[maynard]

It was just a matter of trying to find time to get back to watching eps again - I always wanted to watch S1 & S2 in order but stopped watching S1 after a few eps and was reluctant to jump into S2 - anyhow now I think I only have one more S2 ep to watch to have fully caught-up with the reviews.In a way it's easier as I can see more similarities in some things between S2 & S3 than S1 & S3 - it just means my order of viewing is warped! My order of reviewing will probably finally be: S3' date=' S4, S5, S2, then S1 - figure how warped that is!One other thing I wanted to discuss that others have picked-up on with this ep is the issue of an apparently confused or unclear plot. This is interesting and potentially worthy of it's own discussion thread. I remember when I first watched the bulk of MV regularly I was 15 or 16, and many of the plots were unclear to me at that stage, probably because I wasn't an 'adult' yet. In general it didn't matter - you could always get the 'gist' of the plot and there was always something else to appreciate eg. styling, acting, music, hardware, etc. Now over 20 years later most plots are a lot clearer to me.Occasionally the odd plotline is still quite unclear, but in some ways it makes the ep even better - firstly it's as good a reason as any to rewatch the ep, a bit like a song on a new album you might have - some tracks take repeated listening until you like them, but often those are the same tracks you listen to and love the longest. Are MV eps similar?Secondly, the ambiguity over the plotline can add to the whole mystique of MV generally and of the ep in particular - for example, we might even argue on here whether or not we think the writers created the ambiguity intentionally or not.So personally I think I'm always intrigued by a slightly unclear plot, if anything I think it adds to MV's greatness, it doesn't detract.Any thoughts?[/quote']Probably true of the ones Dick Wolf wrote or co-wrote, ever try to follow the plots on Law and Order lately? After you said that, I wonder if they do it on purpose...

[Tony D.]

Law & Order is either too legalistic for me or too probing in the victim's private body parts...ex. Special victims unit! Not much visual excitement either. :sleep:

[agent 47]

Law & Order is either too legalistic for me or too probing in the victim's private body parts...ex. Special victims unit! Not much visual excitement either. :sleep:

I liked Law&Order when they had Jerry Orbach on, after he died they had Dennis Farina on and he was good but after that, the show went to hell in a handbasket, but I think Criminal Intent is the best of them all, especially with the new addition of Jeff Goldblum.

[Papa Legba]

One other thing I wanted to discuss that others have picked-up on with this ep is the issue of an apparently confused or unclear plot. This is interesting and potentially worthy of it's own discussion thread. I remember when I first watched the bulk of MV regularly I was 15 or 16' date=' and many of the plots were unclear to me at that stage, probably because I wasn't an 'adult' yet. In general it didn't matter - you could always get the 'gist' of the plot and there was always something else to appreciate eg. styling, acting, music, hardware, etc. Now over 20 years later most plots are a lot clearer to me.Occasionally the odd plotline is still quite unclear, but in some ways it makes the ep even better - firstly it's as good a reason as any to rewatch the ep, a bit like a song on a new album you might have - some tracks take repeated listening until you like them, but often those are the same tracks you listen to and love the longest. Are MV eps similar?Secondly, the ambiguity over the plotline can add to the whole mystique of MV generally and of the ep in particular - for example, we might even argue on here whether or not we think the writers created the ambiguity intentionally or not.So personally I think I'm always intrigued by a slightly unclear plot, if anything I think it adds to MV's greatness, it doesn't detract. [/quote']I agree. I've always been particularly attracted to tv and film that makes me think, or feel. I think an ambiguous or more cryptic storyline forces you to think about what's going on. It also adds a lot more depth to what you are watching.