Episode #28 "Junk Love"


Ferrariman

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I really like this episode even though it's very sad.  Great tunes in it, though... I love Wang Chung's "True Love" and Robert Plant's "Little By Little" especially!  I love "Little By Little" more than any Zeppelin tune.  That song has so much emotion and atmosphere in the music and vocals!  I recently picked up the 12" single!

 

8/10 for me.

 

 

 

Great post and review of songs - I also love this episode so 1985 !!

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  • 3 months later...

I see that a lot of people here disliked this episode--whether because of the topic of incest, the pace, or acting of the guest stars.  I had seen it way back when it first aired and honestly had forgotten the surprise ending, as well as most of the actual episode.  However, I kind of spoiled it for myself by reading comments here before watching it (my own fault!).  Still, I found it hard to fault it.  I thought it handled a very powerful topic--incest and the ultimate effect of that abuse on a child--in a subtle but ultimately hard-hitting way.  

 

(snipped)  I had been trying to second-guess the ending from the start when Sonny had been suspicious of something else going on whilst Rico seemed to take it on face value, but I didn't see this one coming (snipped)  I felt sorry for the daughter. What an awful life she must've been forced to live under her father. And it is well-known from similar scenario's in real-life cases that these girls can often suffer from victim's guilt, the guilt of the abused, or similar syndromes. Something I just googled on the subject says "Mistreatment and violence are part of an enduring pattern of maladaptive behavior within the relationship and are sometimes coupled with substance abuse. Abusers are possessive, pathologically jealous, dependent, and, often, narcissistic. Invariably, both the abuser and his victim seek to conceal the abusive episodes and their aftermath from family, friends, neighbors, or colleagues". (snipped)  

From that point of view I can sympathise with the way they seemed to stretch the girl's periods of silence in the ep or where she seemed to be hiding something or protecting someone. It was a little frustrating for the viewer as it felt a little slow-moving, but once the revelation comes you can sort of forgive it.  So once again Sonny's gut feel was right - there was something more at play here, so full marks to him. Loved his looks and lines at the auction - bit about 'divorced and broke' was classic. (snipped)

Also loved 'Slave to Love' - have always liked that track but works really well in this ep - especially once the revelation is made, it adds yet another meaning to it all. There are some tracks with some scenes in MV eps that just fit perfectly and raise the scene to another level as a result - you can get completely emotionally lost in those scenes, just one of the things I love about MV.  Once again, if this was Season 3 instead of 2, I bet they would have had the daughter shooting herself rather than her father - a far more desperate ending for Sonny and for us as viewers - at least with the father being shot there is some semblance of justice being achieved - although undeniably the daughter will never escape the years of sexual and psychological abuse or enforced drug abuse.(snipped)

Rosella's drug abuse could easily be interpreted as the only way she could see to escape the pain of her existence.  And since it seems her father had abused her sexually ever since childhood, it's understandable she felt there was no way out for her.  She knew nothing different, so she had no hope.  For me, her acting was fine:  she acted strung-out most of the time, which was realistic since she was supposed to be on some kind of (apparently) downer most of the time.  I would even think it was a challenge to act that apathetic and stoned.  "An enduring pattern of maladaptive behavior within the relationship" is exactly right.

 

Like several others, I was a little surprised at the level of cynicism Rico displayed toward Rosella, while Sonny seemed to feel a real and positive connection with her--even a trust that seems hard to justify.  But it was definitely true that Crockett always related to women with sympathy and protectiveness, while Tubbs seemed more cynical in general toward women (unless he slept with them--then they were worthy of his trust, it seemed...).  I don't mean to be cynical toward Tubbs--some of that was just inconsistent, unthoughtful writing.  But he generally had a more negative attitude to females, IMO.

 

(snipped) This episode is another one that places Crockett and Tubbs at the opposite ends of an opinion spectrum. Again we see Crockett's instinctual nature once again being correct, while Tubbs' cynical and logical perspective blinds him to the truth.  (snipped)  I can only assume that Tubbs' lack of sympathy with Rosella, but his display of sympathy to Mark Jorgensen in "Little Prince" may have been due to a belief that Jorgensen couldn't help the way that he'd turned out because he'd been born into that lifestyle of shallow materialism and ambition, whereas he believed that Rosella was just some junkie gold digger who complained about not loving Silva and wanting to leave, yet loved his wealth too much to really want to leave him. Therefore Tubbs may have thought she was exploiting Silva, and therefore could expolit himself and Crockett. (snipped)  What I like about this episode is the fact that the dynamics between Silva and Rosella are ambiguous all the way through the episode. You just assume that Rosella is Silva's girlfriend, but it's never explicitely stated. Once you watch the ending and realise that she's actually his daughter, if you re-watch the episode you interpret all the scenes in a completely different way. (snipped) The only goof that struck me was that from the looks on their faces, Crockett and Tubbs could hear everything that Rosella and Silva were saying right at the end of the episode. However unless Rosella and Silva had been shouting to each other, there's no way that Crockett and Tubbs could have heard what they were saying, out in the water from that distance.

Good points, Papa Legba.  The ambiguous dynamics between DaSilva and Rosella give the ep a level of frustration while waiting for something to happen, and emotional devastation when the truth is revealed, that would not be there if they had been straightforward.  When i first watched the ep, I just accepted it that the conversation would carry across the water, but you're right that it would be quite a stretch.  Even though Crockett's boat is not running, Da Silva's would surely have some motor noise as it idled in the water, to interfere with hearing a conversation.
 

(snipped) I'm a sucker for Sonny's weird mental adaptations. He seems to be able to connect with the strangest people. He defintely connected with Rosella. He kept saying that he had a feeling that she stayed for other reasons than what she told him or what Rico thought he said it's bigger and it's bad or something to those words.  (snipped) Getting back to Sonny for a vice cop he is eternally optimistic battling his realistic cynicsim. I always found this conflict one of the most interesting things about his character.  (snipped) Another inconistency was Rico's attitude toward Rosella. He was much more sympathetic to Michael Jorgenson III in Little Prince in first season. He didn't seem to remember his own words that the saddest thing to see was an uptown junkie who wasn't living on the poor side of town. He looked at Rosella as a spoiled brat, while she was as hooked as the kid from Little Prince was. (snipped) How did Gina and Trudy finally find out About Rosella's secret, and if it was that easy to find why didn't they do a thorough check on the girl when they first found out her name? It seemed kind of strange that all of a sudden they found it out, but they couldn't have found out earlier before they went to the meet or whatever you want to call it.  (snipped) Since Rico was so against working with Rosella, where was one of his famous run a make on her to get her secrets.  

 

Yes, it's surprising Rico didn't run a make on her!  I wonder what stopped him (besides poor writing, that is...)  There were some annoying inconsistencies, as nmathews said:  Sonny and Gina blowing Rico's cover, and how Gina and Trudy only discovered Rosella's secret as Sonny and Rico were out alone on the water with Da Silva and his men. 

 

The shocking way Da Silva got rid of Roberto proved Rosella was right to fear his retaliation.  It was a bit amusing and ironic that Da Silva explained his absence at the party in exactly the way Ivory Jones predicted--fishing--ironically also, one of Crockett's hobbies.  I enjoyed the glance Tubbs shot at Crockett when he said that.  

 

For me, it was a strong episode, head and shoulders above some of the forgettable stuff in S4-5.  I would give it a 7, downgrading for some of the inconsistencies mentioned above, as well as the snippy nurse's portrayal ;).  

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I see that a lot of people here disliked this episode--whether because of the topic of incest, the pace, or acting of the guest stars.  I had seen it way back when it first aired and honestly had forgotten the surprise ending, as well as most of the actual episode.  However, I kind of spoiled it for myself by reading comments here before watching it (my own fault!).  Still, I found it hard to fault it.  I thought it handled a very powerful topic--incest and the ultimate effect of that abuse on a child--in a subtle but ultimately hard-hitting way.  

 

 

Rosella's drug abuse could easily be interpreted as the only way she could see to escape the pain of her existence.  And since it seems her father had abused her sexually ever since childhood, it's understandable she felt there was no way out for her.  She knew nothing different, so she had no hope.  For me, her acting was fine:  she acted strung-out most of the time, which was realistic since she was supposed to be on some kind of (apparently) downer most of the time.  I would even think it was a challenge to act that apathetic and stoned.  "An enduring pattern of maladaptive behavior within the relationship" is exactly right.

 

Like several others, I was a little surprised at the level of cynicism Rico displayed toward Rosella, while Sonny seemed to feel a real and positive connection with her--even a trust that seems hard to justify.  But it was definitely true that Crockett always related to women with sympathy and protectiveness, while Tubbs seemed more cynical in general toward women (unless he slept with them--then they were worthy of his trust, it seemed...).  I don't mean to be cynical toward Tubbs--some of that was just inconsistent, unthoughtful writing.  But he generally had a more negative attitude to females, IMO.

 
 
Good points, Papa Legba.  The ambiguous dynamics between DaSilva and Rosella give the ep a level of frustration while waiting for something to happen, and emotional devastation when the truth is revealed, that would not be there if they had been straightforward.  When i first watched the ep, I just accepted it that the conversation would carry across the water, but you're right that it would be quite a stretch.  Even though Crockett's boat is not running, Da Silva's would surely have some motor noise as it idled in the water, to interfere with hearing a conversation.
 
 

 

Yes, it's surprising Rico didn't run a make on her!  I wonder what stopped him (besides poor writing, that is...)  There were some annoying inconsistencies, as nmathews said:  Sonny and Gina blowing Rico's cover, and how Gina and Trudy only discovered Rosella's secret as Sonny and Rico were out alone on the water with Da Silva and his men. 

 

The shocking way Da Silva got rid of Roberto proved Rosella was right to fear his retaliation.  It was a bit amusing and ironic that Da Silva explained his absence at the party in exactly the way Ivory Jones predicted--fishing--ironically also, one of Crockett's hobbies.  I enjoyed the glance Tubbs shot at Crockett when he said that.  

 

For me, it was a strong episode, head and shoulders above some of the forgettable stuff in S4-5.  I would give it a 7, downgrading for some of the inconsistencies mentioned above, as well as the snippy nurse's portrayal ;).  

"I'm tired, and when I'm tired I get weird" - Rico

 

Vicegirl85 and others as quoted sum this one up eloquently. I skipped this one on my current re-watch phase due to troublesome double sided disc issues, but gazed it late tonight.

 

Visually stunning, sexually charged, drug hazed with a jazz legend, this is Junk Love. I digress, but Miles Davis "Kind of Blue" is an amazing album, and it's always grand to see him in this one. Twisted plot, great boating, yet slow at moments and plot holes as described above. Every time I see this I think Rosella is going to shoot herself at the end. "Slave to Love" and "Little By Little", sonic highlights so wonderfully placed. Solid episode, and while I don't love it, it is far from junk.

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  • 4 weeks later...

I never cared for this episode too much and I don't know why. I rewatched it and it's a good, solid episode. Much better than I originally thought. Good story and great visuals. Very nice scenery. I especially like the use of the house that was later Guzman's house in Down For The Count and the auction scene at the hotel was very good too. A lot of great style in this episode. The smuggling scene and boat explosion were good. The climax is also very good. Some good boat action and the twist is a shock. What a scumbag POS.

 

Jose Perez is good in this role. He's much better here than in Miracle Man. I still think Miles Davis was terrible. My opinion hasn't changed on that. The character was good though and it's too bad there wasn't a better actor in that role, but that's the only real complaint about this ep.

 

Overall, a good episode that I never watched that  often which is too bad because it's a good one. 7/10

Edited by Tommy Vercetti
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  • 6 months later...

i always like the music that plays when Rosella is onscreen. trying to figure out what piece that is or if it's been released on cd

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On 4/26/2016 at 0:30 AM, AzVice said:

i always like the music that plays when Rosella is onscreen. trying to figure out what piece that is or if it's been released on cd

Never been released as far as I know - maybe Dadrian has a cover ?!:):)

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I haven't covered it, but you can PM me if you'd like a really good MP3 ripped from the DVD with very minimal dialogue audio. 

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  • 1 year later...

For some reason I really enjoy this one.

Lovely scenery, Vicey style, and good music.

The actress who played Rosella was pretty mediocre but she didn't ruin it like Dorothy in Buddies.

Other bits i liked were Castillo's staredown at Tubbs, Silva's house, the boat bombing, and the auction.

The ending had a twist and i dig Little by Little.

Kind of the S2 version of Little Prince.

8/10

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3 hours ago, Remington said:

For some reason I really enjoy this one.

Lovely scenery, Vicey style, and good music.

The actress who played Rosella was pretty mediocre but she didn't ruin it like Dorothy in Buddies.

Other bits i liked were Castillo's staredown at Tubbs, Silva's house, the boat bombing, and the auction.

The ending had a twist and i dig Little by Little.

Kind of the S2 version of Little Prince.

8/10

Yes its a goodie and the girl is a looker too - so beautiful

Great locales and music by JH - good to see Miles Davis too:D

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This episode I've always felt was ahead of its time...the seriously taboo/perverted topic of a father wanting sexual relations with his daughter was just something not covered in 80s television! Very sad & tragic episode. I also have never been able to understand how this episode was allowed, yet Too Little Too Late was not aired because of material considered too "dark" for the time?? ?(

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1 hour ago, Remington said:

Junk Love was a little more subtle I think than the latter episode. That's my best guess.

Perhaps...but to me Junk Love was WAY more blatant with the content than Too Little Too Late! But that's just my opinion. :p However, maybe an "adult" woman being sexually abused by her father was more acceptable than the "knowledge" that a minor girl's mother was trying to offer her daughter for sex so she could get drug money.  :eek:  Either situation or case was horribly tragic and sad! ;(

Edited by ViceFanMan
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  • 6 months later...

What I loved: What's another four letter word for dirt???  Vice!  Junk Love has one of the most hilarious intros to a Miami Vice episode ever. Very good acting in this episode. Miles Davis as Ivory? Miles was beyond cool and to me a great fit for Vice. Philip Michael Thomas played really well against Miles. I loved the scene when their looking over his choices of prostitutes. The little tension between Crockett and Tubbs over Rosella was welcome. (Even real partners don't see eye to eye all the time, and a little friction makes Crockett & Tubbs' relationship even that much more realistic.) Wow, what is that song being played at Silva's house??  Slave to Love by Bryan Ferry, a year before "9 1/2 Weeks" made the song really famous? That is such a great song and fits great here. This episode's storyline is a gutt punch, but in a good way. But boy do I flinch rewatching a certain kiss, now knowing they are really Father and Daughter.

What I would change: The pacing could be slightly improved. I would have preferred a more serious choice of Jan Hammer music or no music right at all, right at the end, to make the conclusion even more impactful.

Final Grade:

IMG_20171212_194347.jpg

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8 hours ago, ComplimentsofMrCalderone said:

What I loved: What's another four letter word for dirt???  Vice!  Junk Love has one of the most hilarious intros to a Miami Vice episode ever. Very good acting in this episode. Miles Davis as Ivory? Miles was beyond cool and to me a great fit for Vice. Philip Michael Thomas played really well against Miles. I loved the scene when their looking over his choices of prostitutes. The little tension between Crockett and Tubbs over Rosella was welcome. (Even real partners don't see eye to eye all the time, and a little friction makes Crockett & Tubbs' relationship even that much more realistic.) Wow, what is that song being played at Silva's house??  Slave to Love by Bryan Ferry, a year before "9 1/2 Weeks" made the song really famous? That is such a great song and fits great here. This episode's storyline is a gutt punch, but in a good way. But boy do I flinch rewatching a certain kiss, now knowing they are really Father and Daughter.

What I would change: The pacing could be slightly improved. I would have preferred a more serious choice of Jan Hammer music or no music right at all, right at the end, to make the conclusion even more impactful.

Final Grade:

IMG_20171212_194347.jpg

Great review - I also enjoyed this episode. Dark subject matter but it worked and the female lead is very beautiful. Really great to see Miles Davis as Avery- good locations and directing by Michael O’Herlihy

:hippie:

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Got to love this advertising. Can you trust a junkie when you're out to bust the junk man? And look how Ivory is giving the googly eyes to Gina. Better than Silva giving googly eyes to Rosella I guess... :cool:

IMG_20171213_124254.thumb.jpg.58125e9a4c55cc8621abf7c031f18855.jpg

Edited by ComplimentsofMrCalderone
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On 16/5/2017 at 7:02 AM, ViceFanMan said:

 However, maybe an "adult" woman being sexually abused by her father was more acceptable than the "knowledge" that a minor girl's mother was trying to offer her daughter for sex so she could get drug money.  :eek:  Either situation or case was horribly tragic and sad! ;(

A very disturbing and disgusting theme in this episode. And the title of the episode "Junk Love" fits perfectly. My thought was also, that maybe they got away with it cause the shocking knowledge was revealed at the end of the episode. 

"Slave to Love" is my second favorite song outside Vice and it shouldn't have been used for this episode in my opinion. 

Edited by summer84
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22 hours ago, summer84 said:

A very disturbing and disgusting theme in this episode. And the title of the episode "Junk Love" fits perfectly. My thought was also, that maybe they got away with it cause the shocking knowledge was revealed at the end of the episode. 

"Slave to Love" is my second favorite song outside Vice and it shouldn't have been used for this episode in my opinion. 

A good episode - and cleverly styled , written , produced and directed because as the viewer we didn’t know till the end . We had our suspicions in the last quarter or so of the episode but I never expected even then the girl was Silva’s daughter. As you said Summer I’m sure this was the only way this episode, written by Julia Cameron, would have been greenlit back in 1985.

Great locations in Bill Baggs Park and off Key Biscayne in this fall 1985 episode.

Edited by Matt5
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23 hours ago, summer84 said:

A very disturbing and disgusting theme in this episode. And the title of the episode "Junk Love" fits perfectly. My thought was also, that maybe they got away with it cause the shocking knowledge was revealed at the end of the episode. 

"Slave to Love" is my second favorite song outside Vice and it shouldn't have been used for this episode in my opinion. 

YESS!. It's used alright in MV but it's used to perfection in 9 and 1/2 Weeks with Mickey Rourke & Kim Basinger. Great song.

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3 hours ago, Matt5 said:

A good episode - and cleverly styled , written , produced and directed because as the viewer we didn’t know till the end . We had our suspicions in the last quarter or so of the episode but I never expected even then the girl was Silva’s daughter. As you said Summer I’m sure this was the only way this episode, written by Julia Cameron, would have been greenlit back in 1985.

Great locations in Bill Baggs Park and off Key Biscayne in this fall 1985 episode.

Yeah, it's not a bad episode. Great opening. I love it, when Crockett blows Gina a kiss in the Daytona, that was hot. And that Gina also got a wild ride in the Daytona with Crockett, very cool. Even though it was short. Also liked Switek's - 4 letter word for dirt.

All the way through, the viewer is left in suspense, until the very end where the truth gets revealed, that Silva in fact is Rosellas' father. I also agree with Remington about the subject matter being displayed in a more subtle way. 

Edited by summer84
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On 12/13/2017 at 1:27 PM, summer84 said:

A very disturbing and disgusting theme in this episode. And the title of the episode "Junk Love" fits perfectly. My thought was also, that maybe they got away with it cause the shocking knowledge was revealed at the end of the episode. 

"Slave to Love" is my second favorite song outside Vice and it shouldn't have been used for this episode in my opinion. 

Agreed, summer84! I was shocked this episode was allowed at the time. And yes, the song Slave To Love is pretty cool...but it makes you think of this episode when you hear it again. :eek:

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On 12/13/2017 at 2:27 PM, summer84 said:

"Slave to Love" is my second favorite song outside Vice and it shouldn't have been used for this episode in my opinion. 

Just for me personally I don't see the usage of "Slave to Love" as inappropriate. It's possible I would have, if it had played during the forced kissing between Silva and Rosella, but since it was background music during the huge party at Silva's mansion, it never struck me as poor taste. Plus, at this point of the story, the audience is supposed to have no idea Silva and Rosella are even related in the first place, to apply the song's meaning to incestuous sexual abuse.

Either way, it's nice to find mutual fans of such a great song! :thumbsup:

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11 hours ago, ViceFanMan said:

Agreed, summer84! I was shocked this episode was allowed at the time. And yes, the song Slave To Love is pretty cool...but it makes you think of this episode when you hear it again. :eek:

Luckily, I don't associate the song with this episode. 

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8 hours ago, ComplimentsofMrCalderone said:

Just for me personally I don't see the usage of "Slave to Love" as inappropriate. It's possible I would have, if it had played during the forced kissing between Silva and Rosella, but since it was background music during the huge party at Silva's mansion, it never struck me as poor taste. Plus, at this point of the story, the audience is supposed to have no idea Silva and Rosella are even related in the first place, to apply the song's meaning to incestuous sexual abuse.

Either way, it's nice to find mutual fans of such a great song! :thumbsup:

Miami Vice is known for and good at connecting a song with a scene, but here it just didn't work for me over the dialogue and this "relationship." The lyrics didn't fit either. It should have been used in a unhappy love/ or love story. 

I'm also glad to know, that others like this song. :fireworks:

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On 13/12/2017 at 5:52 PM, ComplimentsofMrCalderone said:

Got to love this advertising. Can you trust a junkie when you're out to bust the junk man? And look how Ivory is giving the googly eyes to Gina. Better than Silva giving googly eyes to Rosella I guess... :cool:

IMG_20171213_124254.thumb.jpg.58125e9a4c55cc8621abf7c031f18855.jpg

A great flyer! Thankyou for posting :hippie:

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On 12/14/2017 at 10:31 PM, ComplimentsofMrCalderone said:

Just for me personally I don't see the usage of "Slave to Love" as inappropriate. It's possible I would have, if it had played during the forced kissing between Silva and Rosella, but since it was background music during the huge party at Silva's mansion, it never struck me as poor taste. Plus, at this point of the story, the audience is supposed to have no idea Silva and Rosella are even related in the first place, to apply the song's meaning to incestuous sexual abuse.

Either way, it's nice to find mutual fans of such a great song! :thumbsup:

I don't know--while it's a very distasteful subject (incest), poor Rosella has apparently been a victim of her father for many years.  In that sense she has been a slave to his *love*.  Very tragic and IMO, appropriate.  As a young child or teen, she may as well have been enslaved to him, since she would have been powerless to escape.  And even as an adult, the episode showed how Silva would get rid of anyone else Rosella tried to get close to or to get help from.  So she remained a helpless pawn in his power.  Perhaps there were actions she could have taken and didn't, but she knew no other life so I can see how she felt she had no other choice than to stay with him and dull the pain with drugs. 

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