Episode #20 "Nobody Lives Forever"


Ferrariman

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I watched this episode last night, so it's still fresh in my mind. So here's what I gleaned from it. Yes, Tubbs was definitely jealous, but not because he had any interest in Brenda. He was jealous because he felt she was taking his partner and friend away from him, as he was spending a lot of time with her, and not enough time with the people he worked with anymore, and Tubbs felt that they had a responsibility as fellow police partners to be there for each other. That brings up the second point, and the main point of the episode. The point is that being a vice cop is no ordinary, regular job, and there is no separation between the job and a personal life. That's why Crockett's marriage to Caroline didn't work out. It's nothing like most people's jobs, where you work 9-5 or whatever particular hours, then you go home. It's not like you can just take your weekends and holidays and relax and forget about work. It's a unique type of job, where it is your life, and thus the people you work with, your fellow cops in the department become the closest people to you, and they come first, and everything and everyone else takes a back seat to that. Relationships outside of that suffer because the only people you can really have real commitment for are those you work with. That's why Brenda asks Sonny if having a partner is like a marriage, as that person is who spend the most time with and develop the closest bond to. Brenda wanted to be foremost in Sonny's life, but due to his lifestyle and who he was, that just wasn't possible as it would have been she were another man who wasn't a vice cop.

 

It wasn't Brenda's fault. She did nothing wrong. Neither was it Sonny's fault for being with her and wanting to spend so much time with her. That's what people do when they're in love. But what makes it different and what makes it difficult for Sonny is his job, because he's a vice cop. As a vice cop, the job is his life, and he wanted to forget that it was. When he stays over at Brenda's house, and then Tubbs gets beaten up, Sonny feels bad that he wasn't there to protect him. And Tubbs is understandably frustrated and upset about it. Gina is understandably upset that Sonny neglects her and goes off with this new woman. Castillo is understandably upset that Crockett is slipping up on the job because his mind is outside of it. So that's really the main idea of the episode right there. The episode itself was very lacking in its plot. The punks were too over-the-top insane and the storyline wasn't very good. But I think that's just because the plot wasn't the point. The point is to show the nature of a vice cop's job and how it is far more than just a job, or profession, it's really an entire lifestyle, unlike most people's jobs which are distinct and separate from their personal lives and relationships. As a vice cop, the closest relationship Sonny had was with Tubbs and then the other people in his department. Also as a vice cop, it was his entire life, and trying to separate it just didn't work, and Brenda understood that at the end, and so did Crockett. They had tried to ignore that, and that's what caused the problems for Sonny and the people who depended on him. 

Edited by viceystyle
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  • 2 months later...

The editing and direction in this episode from Jim Johnstone was fantastic - movie like almost Mtv like in places. Fading to white instead of black during the episode really made this episode stand out. A great episode 10-10

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  • 1 month later...

Cory Barker of the website This Was Television reviews "Nobody Lives Forever":

 

There’s a long sequence in the episode’s second half where Crockett takes the boat (yay!) out on the water (but drives it slow, so boo!)

 

:D

 

Read the full review:

 

http://thiswastv.com/2012/11/07/review-miami-vice-the-home-invaders-and-nobody-lives-forever/

 

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  • 2 weeks later...
  • 1 month later...

I have always liked this episode for the way it developed the partner relationship between Sonny and Rico.  Papa Legba, I agree about Rico's comment--that was some great dialog :)

 

(snipped)Did anyone else think it was a bit weird that Crockett and Brenda were actively dating, yet he admits to occasionally sleeping with Gina? If I had been in that position and said that I think that would have pretty much killed the relationship right there and then. But then again sadly I don't look like Don Johnson so maybe Brenda was willing to put up with more!One of my favourite dialogues from Vice...Crockett: So the lady's warmed up my social life, so what?Tubbs: Warmed it up?.... man that chick's set that sucker on FI-YA!I(snipped)

Notice the scene in the strategy room after Tubbs gets beaten up. Great scene from the point of view of DJ and PMT's acting. You could just feel the uncomfortable feelings between them from their body language. Crockett is keeping a low profile at the back of the room, turned away from Tubbs and sat in silence, while Tubbs is clearly still angry with Crockett, and is directing that anger towards the rest of the team.(snipped)

(snipped) The following dialog defines the whole situation:Sonny: Okay. It's your turn. The ugliest guy you ever dated.Brenda: Never dated ugly guys. I didn't.Sonny: You don't play fair.Brenda: I never said I did.Sonny: Good. I like that. Keeps things interesting. At this point I always remember Caroline's line from "brother's keepers"... You're all players, Sonny. You get high on the action. This quote and also the dialog between Sonny and Brenda is the key why Sonny's private life is a mess and always will be. He's somebody who'll get bored as soon as every day life takes place, and he likes playing with risks. (snipped)

You're so right, Ell.a.  I like a lot of things about Sonny's character, but agree he would have trouble maintaining a relationship.  He always had trouble dividing his attention between his job and any romantic relationship.  True that the working undercover would be all-consuming; it's not a normal job.  He always gave the impression he deeply regretted the end of his marriage to Caroline, but he wouldn't or couldn't give up the job that took him away from not only her but their child.  To me that was kind of selfish in his character.

 

Several people have mentioned Gina and what happens to her in this episode.  Through the first season, Sonny first pursued her for several episodes; then we saw them out together and having a good time; she is shown to stay overnight with him on the boat more than once.  She's beautiful, sweet, very passionate and dedicated to the same work that he is, so they should be able to give and take with the strains of the job (one would think).  What we didn't see was how Sonny and Brenda met and began dating, what they had in common, and how long they have been involved.  This made it more difficult for me as a viewer to accept that his relationship with Brenda was serious or even real.  So it was really hard to understand why he abandoned Gina for Brenda.  I didn't really get the impression he was occasionally sleeping with Gina after he and Brenda got together, though (and I could have missed something!)  But I did feel like Gina denied to herself that he had moved on.  She tested him by trying to get him to go to dinner because she had to know, and yes, it was embarrassing because it seemed like she forgot her pride.  But I did like how she told him off.  To me, Sonny and Gina were well-suited and I always wanted them to get back together.  It's too bad the controlling powers for the show never did make that happen.  There were numerous instances throughout the show's run that showed they still cared a lot for each other.   

 

edited to add:  OK, I re-watched the scene where Sonny and Brenda are on the boat at night and she asks him about Gina.  He tells her Gina's a good friend and they are "there for each other."  She pushes, asking if that includes being there sexually for each other. He hesitates for a moment and you can see the conflicting emotions in his face--does he admit this or not (especially since Gina has just told him off)?  But he decides on honesty and says, "Sometimes."  After that he's kind of holding his breath to see how Brenda will react to this. That does make it seem as if he has still been sleeping with Gina since he's been dating Brenda (although maybe Gina didn't know he was seeing someone besides her).  Surprisingly, Brenda doesn't get mad.

 

I agree that most of the women Sonny dated were not attractive to my eye but if they'd only seemed to have any common interests, I would have applauded the casting people for using more ordinary-looking actresses as a twist from the usual.  I honestly felt that except for Gina and to a lesser extent Caitlin, the women he dated had nothing in common with him except sexual compatibility.  Caitlin's common factor was a thirst for justice--but it was fairly personal, related to her own friend, not humanity as a whole (as far as we were shown).  I don't know that in the long term they could have kept the fire going.

 

The young punks were entertaining because they were so OTT, but they were scary in the way they didn't hesitate to spray the area with automatic gunfire at the slightest provocation.  I think in reality they would have been arrested and stopped long before it happened on the show.    

 

Obviously the Brenda storyline was more meaningful to me, but I felt the relationship was rushed and not believable. 

Edited by vicegirl85
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  • 10 months later...
  • 9 months later...

Honestly i consider this and The Maze the weakest of the season.

Its got its moments. I love Tubbs in this one. And the Castillo staredown gave me shivers lol.

I was jus annoyedby the punks. Maybe they remind of old classmates.

However I agree with Matt5. It does look very good.

And i love LWP.

5/10

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  • 6 months later...

Over the years, this has quietly became one of my top 5 favorite episodes of the whole series. It’s so relaxing and eternally enjoyable. I generally watch episodes just before I go to bed. I’ve unwound with MV for at least 20 years now, and this episode always delivers. It’s romantic, funny, dramatic, has great music, great locations, and showcases all of the great characteristics of C&T’s friendship.

10/10 for sweet dreams. :p

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 16/11/2017 at 4:02 AM, Dadrian said:

Over the years, this has quietly became one of my top 5 favorite episodes of the whole series. It’s so relaxing and eternally enjoyable. I generally watch episodes just before I go to bed. I’ve unwound with MV for at least 20 years now, and this episode always delivers. It’s romantic, funny, dramatic, has great music, great locations, and showcases all of the great characteristics of C&T’s friendship.

10/10 for sweet dreams. :p

Interesting Dadrian the episode being in your top 5. It is indeed a great episode and somehow it doesn’t quite have the self assured swagger the MV episodes have in Season 2 after “Prodigal Son” when Miami Vice was huge.

The cinematography and direction is fantastic with little touches of the fade out to white is so innovative and coupled with the story , music and locations a fine episode :hippie:

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  • 11 months later...

I rewatched the episode after only remembering the goofy gang. You know what? Its a fantastic episode, they seem more to the side and thats fine. Excellent music also.

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  • 2 months later...

I also like this episode, and it's interesting to note Frank Military (who wrote "Buddies" and another episode or two if memory serves) played one of the punks. One of the things I really liked was how this episode showed the randomness of some crimes. Vice is busy trying to fit it into some kind of mob war frame, when it's really some whacked-out kids who figured out that bookies always have money. Plus it's got Izzy doing his thing. Didn't necessarily care for Brenda, but that I think was the point of the writing. Tubbs articulates it pretty well, I think.

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  • 2 months later...

This is actually one of my favorite episodes for a number of reasons. It gives each character a chance to shine, we get to see some good Crockett-Tubbs interaction, and we have a Crockett relationship. It also gave us Frank Military, who went on to write Buddies and Little Miss Dangerous.

But, honestly, my favorite part is the comic book guys. Why? They're totally random. They're Izzy with shotguns and too much coke. We get to see Vice running around thinking it's the start of a mob war, going through the big motions, and it's not. They're random excess, highlighted best by the kid in the hotel room screaming "We're out of money!" And then they remember the bookies. No big mob calculations. No turf grab. Just punks who need more money to carry on their spree. And they're not afraid of anyone because they're not experienced enough to be afraid. And it's interesting to watch Vice grapple with that.

And there's the subtext of Brenda. It's still the first season, so Crockett hasn't sunk as deeply into Burnett as he does later. Brenda's trying to pull him out of that life, and we can actually see Sonny slipping out of his cover. What happens? Tubbs gets beaten up (because the mob guys don't get that it's just some random junkie kids, either), and it's reinforced to Sonny that breaking cover is dangerous. It gets people hurt or even killed. And it lets him believe that he might have gotten those kids sooner if he'd been in the groove instead of sailing with Brenda. He disappoints Tubbs and, more importantly, he disappoints Castillo. When you start looking at what Crockett becomes, and the break that turns him into Burnett, I think quite a bit of it can be traced here. Yeah, I like taking meta-looks at many of the episodes. Vice is episodic in many ways, but the characters evolve in a serial context.

There's quite a bit going on in this episode. More than many realize, I think.

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7 hours ago, Robbie C. said:

This is actually one of my favorite episodes for a number of reasons. It gives each character a chance to shine, we get to see some good Crockett-Tubbs interaction, and we have a Crockett relationship. It also gave us Frank Military, who went on to write Buddies and Little Miss Dangerous.

But, honestly, my favorite part is the comic book guys. Why? They're totally random. They're Izzy with shotguns and too much coke. We get to see Vice running around thinking it's the start of a mob war, going through the big motions, and it's not. They're random excess, highlighted best by the kid in the hotel room screaming "We're out of money!" And then they remember the bookies. No big mob calculations. No turf grab. Just punks who need more money to carry on their spree. And they're not afraid of anyone because they're not experienced enough to be afraid. And it's interesting to watch Vice grapple with that.

And there's the subtext of Brenda. It's still the first season, so Crockett hasn't sunk as deeply into Burnett as he does later. Brenda's trying to pull him out of that life, and we can actually see Sonny slipping out of his cover. What happens? Tubbs gets beaten up (because the mob guys don't get that it's just some random junkie kids, either), and it's reinforced to Sonny that breaking cover is dangerous. It gets people hurt or even killed. And it lets him believe that he might have gotten those kids sooner if he'd been in the groove instead of sailing with Brenda. He disappoints Tubbs and, more importantly, he disappoints Castillo. When you start looking at what Crockett becomes, and the break that turns him into Burnett, I think quite a bit of it can be traced here. Yeah, I like taking meta-looks at many of the episodes. Vice is episodic in many ways, but the characters evolve in a serial context.

There's quite a bit going on in this episode. More than many realize, I think.

I really like what you said here! It's so interesting to look at episodes through someone else's eyes! This is a great episode for many of the reasons you and several others have mentioned. My favorite part was when Castillo clipped Sonny's wings and that glare of his said it all: If your mind isn't on the job 100%, you're out! Tubbs said it to him too, early on. "Your mind is on your lady. Take some time off and get it together!" (something to that effect). So, after the "glare" scene, Sonny goes off for a ride on the Scarab to try and get his priorities in order. And what does he decide? To give up on the girl-like he always does-and rededicate his attention to what he really loves-the crazy, dangerous job of undercover. I didn't like Brenda anyway-too much of a jet-setter and Crockett was already tiring of her attitude.  

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2 hours ago, mjcmmv said:

I really like what you said here! It's so interesting to look at episodes through someone else's eyes! This is a great episode for many of the reasons you and several others have mentioned. My favorite part was when Castillo clipped Sonny's wings and that glare of his said it all: If your mind isn't on the job 100%, you're out! Tubbs said it to him too, early on. "Your mind is on your lady. Take some time off and get it together!" (something to that effect). So, after the "glare" scene, Sonny goes off for a ride on the Scarab to try and get his priorities in order. And what does he decide? To give up on the girl-like he always does-and rededicate his attention to what he really loves-the crazy, dangerous job of undercover. I didn't like Brenda anyway-too much of a jet-setter and Crockett was already tiring of her attitude.  

Does this mark the start of his irreversible move toward Burnett and that arc? I think so. His first attempt to get "out" of the life was with someone totally outside his experience, just like his last attempt (Caitlin). The two parallel storylines in this episode are fascinating to me.

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2 hours ago, Robbie C. said:

Does this mark the start of his irreversible move toward Burnett and that arc? I think so. His first attempt to get "out" of the life was with someone totally outside his experience, just like his last attempt (Caitlin). The two parallel storylines in this episode are fascinating to me.

Yes, I think that's plausible. I agree these two storylines contributed a lot to the inevitable "Burnett Arc". 

I've read somewhere else the "Burnett Arc" started with "Deliver Us From Evil" when Sonny got Hackman off death row. Others think it started in "Bullet for Crockett" when he almost died. And then, the most popular belief was when Caitlin was killed by the same man Sonny himself saved from execution. 

I've thought about this for a bit and I think Sonny was going toward the dark side even before the Brenda relationship. I see him as holding on to his sanity for dear life in the pilot. And then, Tubbs came along. And soon after that, Castillo made an entrance. Those two helped anchor him. So, the downward spiral was delayed a little and he started to believe in the system again. That is, until he was tricked into getting Hackman off death row in "Deliver Us from Evil". Then, I saw the despair come back into his eyes. (DJ did that so well in that last scene). Then, Caitlin is killed by Hackman and that was the last straw for Crockett. When he killed Hackman in cold blood, he was already gone. It was probably a miracle that he ever returned!

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8 minutes ago, Robbie C. said:

Rollins was the first shot, I think. After that it was all downhill.

Agreed. That whole episode was Sonny looking in the mirror!

Edited by mjcmmv
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While I understand the Brenda hate, from her point of view I don't necessarily think she was trying to antagonize or actually change Crockett. Instead I think she was attempting to engage and relate to him the same way she would any other man in her "league". The problem is that simply isn't who he is. An issue with Crockett is, because of his attractiveness and charisma, he is able to net women above his station. In other words he overachieves romantically but there's no future in it most of the time. She was trying to "wake him up" so to speak because if the relationship is to go on, he's going to have to make some compromises. She was knocking but there was nobody home. I think this dovetails with the wacko kids because the Vice team is trying to apply a certain standard to the crimes the same way Brenda is imposing her usual standards upon a man they do not apply to. In both situations we have an attempt to bring order to chaos.

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40 minutes ago, Bren10 said:

While I understand the Brenda hate, from her point of view I don't necessarily think she was trying to antagonize or actually change Crockett. Instead I think she was attempting to engage and relate to him the same way she would any other man in her "league". The problem is that simply isn't who he is. An issue with Crockett is, because of his attractiveness and charisma, he is able to net women above his station. In other words he overachieves romantically but there's no future in it most of the time. She was trying to "wake him up" so to speak because if the relationship is to go on, he's going to have to make some compromises. She was knocking but there was nobody home. I think this dovetails with the wacko kids because the Vice team is trying to apply a certain standard to the crimes the same way Brenda is imposing her usual standards upon a man they do not apply to. In both situations we have an attempt to bring order to chaos.

Wow, this is really good! I never thought of these two issues intersecting, but it makes perfect sense. I enjoyed reading this!

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I never really hated Brenda. I thought she was quite believable in her role and was going about things the way she would. Crockett's problem was often that he moved too fast without really understanding where he was going. Maybe as part of merging with his cover he was moving in social circles his background didn't prepare him for, creating the split we see so often in his relationships. We don't know how or where he met Brenda, for example. Was it at a club Burnett would have frequented? Crockett always struck me as more of a dive/sports bar kinda guy, and I don't see Brenda going to one of those. So he's meeting her on her turf, so to speak, creating an impression Burnett could have lived up to but Sonny can't. So here's Sonny, unconsciously looking for a way out, and he runs into a woman who thinks he's Burnett-sophisticated and ready to take that next step when in fact he's really got no clue. Tubbs hit the nail squarely with his whole thing about cop barbecues and the like.

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  • 1 year later...

A strong 9/10 for me. It's all good really, but that "Heartbeat" montage is the one thing that really sticks with me above all else. The song itself is perfect to listen to while you pour yourself a drink and reflect on things in your life. 

Edited by IzzyFan99
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  • 10 months later...

Revisited this one again last night. The infamous “Brenda-episode”...how most MV fans love to hate her, lol! :p

I did not find the character of Brenda attractive at all, and she seemed very out-of-place with Crockett...but, I think that was the point! She wasn’t “bad”, per-say, she wasn’t a user/manipulator or a fake like Valerie was with Tubbs, I think she genuinely cared for Sonny...but she truly just didn’t understand the life of an undercover Vice cop. I think Tubbs’ analogies to her to try and get her to understand why a serious relationship with Crockett was probably not going to work, were actually spot-on (even though they were hurtful in the moment).

But, I like the way the plot wove together the tensions with Gina, Crockett’s poor choices of other women & his immaturity in what I call the “early Crockett days”, and all of this culminating in affecting his job & performance...the scene where Crockett and Castillo stare at each other when Castillo refuses to let him go out on the operation with Tubbs is very profound! 

The whacko-punks were hilarious...I especially love the idiot that puts the girl's panties on his head when they're goofing around in that old Pontiac Convertible--the first car they stole. Then later one of the other punks makes fun of the guy they stole the money and drugs from--in the restaurant right after Izzy sees them. In real life of course it would not be humorous at all...but on TV they were just so stupid and whacked out, that despite their deadliness I "cracked" up everytime I saw them. :)

I also liked the music (every time I hear “Bad to the Bone”, I always immediately think of the movie Christine, though, lol)  and pastel colored everything--even the bad guy's hot dog wagons were the "MV" pink and teal! :cool: The fashion, especially Crockett’s pastel shirts & jackets were also awesome! 

Good background shot of the old abandoned Floridian Hotel as the punks were going over the freeway at the beginning...same place they filmed the meeting scene with C&T, Castillo, Trudy, and DEA at the beginning of “Smuggler’s Blues”—some torn up abandoned interiors for a druggie-den were also used in a later episode, too. “Ginormous”, grand resort at one time...really sad it wasn’t kept up and restored at some point. 

I just liked this episode--not my most favorite by any means, just another cool one that 's enjoyable with plot, action, colors, and even some humor! I originally gave it an 8...still stand by that. :thumbsup:

FB6F75E8-F4B4-4A28-9C98-CACD8414BF8A.jpeg

The Floridian Hotel...1930s/1940s.

Edited by ViceFanMan
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  • 2 weeks later...

I like this episode as it shows how Crockett personal life affects his work and the relationship with his coworkers, Tubbs and Gina. He wasn't there when the former needed him during a stakeout and the latter felt used sexually and emotionally. Not only that, Castillo put him on the sidelines. Sonny just wasn't on the case with his mind. The lieutenant stare-down is the highlight of this episode.

I think Sonny dating Brenda was punching above his weight from a social status perspective. I agree with most reviewers his relationship with Brenda should have been covered in more episodes to show how the two met and started dating. I'd assume Sonny met her while undercover as Burnett mixing up with people from the high class or just as his real self on his pure good looks and charm. Nonetheless,Tubbs made a compelling argument to Brenda about her relationship with Sonny. I just find him a little bit patronizing toward Sonny at times, although he means well and is genuinely concerned about his partner.

The actual story with the three whacked kids creating havoc wasn't anything like any major plot seen so far but effective enough to show police detective work in Vice takes 100% from you or else people lives are at stake.

I appreciate Lombard being mentioned during this episode too for series continuity and for being one of the S1 common threads.

Last but not least, I enjoyed the three punks getting what they deserved. Interesting to see each one of them shot by a different OCB detective; Rico shot Frank Military character, Zito put away the kid with the shotgun and Sonny showed up 'deus ex machina' to nail the last one chasing after his partner by car.

It seemed to me at the very end Tubbs declined Sonny go fishing invitation.

I rate this with an 8/10 overall. Castillo stare-down alone warrants a pretty high score :).

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1 minute ago, sdiegolo78 said:

I like this episode as it shows how Crockett personal life affects his work and the relationship with his coworkers, Tubbs and Gina. He wasn't there when the former needed him during a stakeout and the latter felt used sexually and emotionally. Not only that, Castillo put him on the sidelines. Sonny just wasn't on the case with his mind. The lieutenant stare-down is the highlight of this episode.

I think Sonny dating Brenda was punching above his weight from a social status perspective. I agree with most reviewers his relationship with Brenda should have been covered in more episodes to show how the two met and started dating. I'd assume Sonny met her while undercover as Burnett mixing up with people from the high class or just as his real self on his pure good looks and charm. Nonetheless,Tubbs made a compelling argument to Brenda about her relationship with Sonny. I just find him a little bit patronizing toward Sonny at times, although he means well and is genuinely concerned about his partner.

The actual story with the three whacked kids creating havoc wasn't anything like any major plot seen so far but effective enough to show police detective work in Vice takes 100% from you or else people lives are at stake.

I appreciate Lombard being mentioned during this episode too for series continuity and for being one of the S1 common threads.

Last but not least, I enjoyed the three punks getting what they deserved. Interesting to see each one of them shot by a different OCB detective; Rico shot Frank Military character, Zito put away the kid with the shotgun and Sonny showed up 'deus ex machina' to nail the last one chasing after his partner by car.

It seemed to me at the very end Tubbs declined Sonny go fishing invitation.

I rate this with an 8/10 overall. Castillo stare-down alone warrants a pretty high score :).

We weren’t shown how they met, but I think we were supposed to think Crockett had been dating Brenda for a while...we were just now getting to see her (much like his relationship with Theresa later—although she was in 2 episodes). But, Brenda knew who Sonny was & what he did (although obviously didn’t fully understand how his career would affect hers)...so I don’t think she met him in a ‘Burnett’ situation. She was high society, but I don’t think the rich-but-with-drugs crowd. She seemed very naive & clueless about that life and what Crockett really had to deal with in his job.

But, Tubbs definitely set her straight...hurtful as it was, she knew he was right. She didn’t have much to say when he talked about police barbecues & softball games. I wonder if she’d ever been to a barbecue? :p 

Castillo was so much more than a “stare-down”...but in this episode it definitely was affective & got the point across. :funky: I too enjoyed some of the other OCB cast get to be in on the action—Zito, Trudy, etc...while Crockett was being punished. 

I enjoy this episode and I too originally gave it an 8...still stand by that! :thumbsup: 

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