01/012 milk run

[airtommy]

 

 

[Matt5]

46 minutes ago, airtommy said:

 

 

Very nice 

[airtommy]

Just before C&T get to the Senator, we get a nice look at the Revere Hotel on Ocean Drive.  Versace demolished it in 1993.

[C Glide]

On ‎1‎/‎2‎/‎2020 at 10:30 AM, airtommy said:

 

 

Beautiful re-creation shot. Nicely done.

[Tom]

Rare pics of the long gone Senator inside. Both exact views shown in these pics can be seen in the episode. Tubbs is walking by the reception and Crockett&Tubbs discuss how to find Eddie and Louis while one of the boys gets out of the cab just outside the main entrance.

 

[Tom]

very rare color pic from the Senator Hotel, taken from inside through the unique glass pattern, with the opposite Marlin Hotel (seen in Back in the world) in view - Zito looked at the Marlin in this episode when they prepared the room for the meet. The Senator was also used in Child´s play (teaser skid row house), shortly before it was demolished in Oct 1988. What a crime!

@miamijimf

Edited November 20, 2021 by Tom

[Tom]

The Revere hotel can be seen when C&T drive to the Senator Hotel (first pic is from the episode, the latter two shortly before destruction). Sadly the Revere was razed in late 1993 because Gianni Versace bought and renovated the Amsterdam (Villa Casuarina) right next door for himself (see right on last picture) and wanted to to build a pool on the Revere grounds to extend his property.

 

[RedDragon86]

On 1/2/2020 at 7:30 AM, airtommy said:

 

 

To me being from the UK it would be surreal to sit on that bench or being at any other specific location spot on the show.

 

[airtommy]

4 hours ago, RedDragon86 said:

To me being from the UK it would be surreal to sit on that bench or being at any other specific location spot on the show.

I had that feeling the first time I went to Miami.  As soon as I checked into my hotel, I drove over to the Pink House.  It truly did feel surreal to me.

[Matt5]

53 minutes ago, airtommy said:

I had that feeling the first time I went to Miami.  As soon as I checked into my hotel, I drove over to the Pink House.  It truly did feel surreal to me.

Yes I remember the first time I went to Miami for three months in 2002 it felt amazing. From MIA I asked the taxi driver to stop on the expressway for me to take a picture of the skyline which must have been the 836 west. I was most excited to see the Bank of America tower ( “Florence Italy” and Seasons 3-5 )  more than anything that first day / night I remember. It seemed to symbolise the show for me. I stayed at the Holiday Inn which was on Biscayne by Freedom Tower - the hotel was seen in some episodes. Then the second day I went to the beach and stayed at The Clay really excited to see the tribute they had to the “Freefall” filming in the lobby.

Edited October 11, 2023 by Matt5

[Tom]

Very rare 1980s pics of the Grove Cinema used in this episode. The pics could be from some time after VICE filmed there. Last two pics are from the episode.

[Tom]

LOCATION FOUND:THE SAFE APARTMENT 

There is a small unknown location in this episode, the safe apartment before the boys are driven to the airport.

When Switek opens the door, we see the Miami Tower (was CenTrust Tower back then, then the Bank of America Tower) briefly in the background. As the tower has a unique horizontal shape, we can triangulate pretty well where this "motel" was. Following clues to triangulate:

• Upper edge of Miami Tower gives us clear indication of area where this location must have been
• Open area (parking lot) in front of door, no houses/trees or traffic visible
• In some distance (100-200m) we see a  dark blackened area in the air that runs horizontally
• Distance to tower approx. 1km (bit more than half a mile)
• Angle between front door and line drawn parallel from towet backside edge is approx. 60 degrees, i.e. front door is exactly facing east

With these parameters we land at SW 4 Ave at Miami River, where only open Jose Marti Park area is between the street and I95 running north-south on a high bridge

When looking at this stretch from SW1 Street down to 6th Street (everything else would not match the angle of the Miami Tpwer we see in the episode) and checking with today´s and 1984/86 aerial we find only one candidate of an apartment-like building with a door facing east and an open parking lot in front AND where the room pattern fits (house corner with one window on each side, width of room and location of door). 

300 SW 4 Ave, still looks the same today as 1984

Short contradiction: In the episode we see a big window between corner and door which is NOT on today´s building which has an outer staircase, but the 1986 aerial reveals that there was NO outer staircase back then, so the window could have been on the parking lot side and the contradiction is solved. The other side around the corner still has a window by the way (see below).

99% probability case solved. See evidence below. ENJOY!

Edited December 21, 2023 by Tom

[Dadrian]

Amazing as always @Tom! 
 

@Paul Veres you should let the current tenant(s) know.  

[Paul Veres]

On 12/20/2023 at 4:09 PM, Tom said:

LOCATION FOUND:THE SAFE APARTMENT 

There is a small unknown location in this episode, the safe apartment before the boys are driven to the airport.

When Switek opens the door, we see the Miami Tower (was CenTrust Tower back then, then the Bank of America Tower) briefly in the background. As the tower has a unique horizontal shape, we can triangulate pretty well where this "motel" was. Following clues to triangulate:

• Upper edge of Miami Tower gives us clear indication of area where this location must have been
• Open area (parking lot) in front of door, no houses/trees or traffic visible
• In some distance (100-200m) we see a  dark blackened area in the air that runs horizontally
• Distance to tower approx. 1km (bit more than half a mile)
• Angle between front door and line drawn parallel from towet backside edge is approx. 60 degrees, i.e. front door is exactly facing east

With these parameters we land at SW 4 Ave at Miami River, where only open Jose Marti Park area is between the street and I95 running north-south on a high bridge

When looking at this stretch from SW1 Street down to 6th Street (everything else would not match the angle of the Miami Tpwer we see in the episode) and checking with today´s and 1984/86 aerial we find only one candidate of an apartment-like building with a door facing east and an open parking lot in front AND where the room pattern fits (house corner with one window on each side, width of room and location of door). 

300 SW 4 Ave, still looks the same today as 1984

Short contradiction: In the episode we see a big window between corner and door which is NOT on today´s building which has an outer staircase, but the 1986 aerial reveals that there was NO outer staircase back then, so the window could have been on the parking lot side and the contradiction is solved. The other side around the corner still has a window by the way (see below).

99% probability case solved. See evidence below. ENJOY!

@Tom, love the geometry analysis, might be one of my favorite type of location deciphering. And I agree with you on pretty much all of your observations, which together demand for a pretty unique location, and besides this one it's tough to see anything else that would work at all. 

However, there appears to be one issue with this building. Maybe there is some explanation, but otherwise the location doesn't work. It's the window geometry. 

The windows in the episode are quite large, and the two of them almost converge in the corner:

Since there is no east-facing window currently on the unit in question, let's look at the second floor right above it. Though it's not a guarantee that they would be designed the same way, but it's generally an example to see that this building has smaller windows (I'm using a 2013 street view):

It is also positioned much closer to the door and much farther from the corner. 

OK, suppose the first floor was very different from the second floor in the first place. But we do have the window around the corner, facing north. While it is quite large, it does not get as close to the corner as the one in the episode - instead of space for a corner column, there is around 3 times as much space:

Could they have redeveloped the windows since the 80s? Maybe, though probably rare, and then also why make them smaller? 

Also, I'm not sure I could conclude anything from the 1986 aerials - the staircase is completely hidden below the 3rd floor when looking from above, whether it's there or not. And how common is it to add a staircase like that? Somebody owned that unit with a large window upfront, and then they say sorry buddy we'll take it away because the 2nd floor folks want a second staircase? Just seems improbable. Most importantly, the county records show all construction for this building taking place in 1972 - something major like adding a staircase would have made it into the records.

In the end, sorry to be a party pooper, especially when I don't have an alternative to offer, but the windows situation is irreconcilable in my opinion.

Here is something I noticed though:

And I think what this might be is a drawbridge booth, like this one for example:

It probably can't be that one, which is on the 2nd Avenue, but 1st St or Flagler could work for your geometry. Well, if that's a drawbridge booth and not some weird little tower top of some building. 

[Paul Veres]

Actually @Tom scratch my previous message, we don't even need to look at the windows. I just imagined the drawbridge booth and we are both imagining the Miami Tower. It's not the building. 

Here is the angle we think we're looking at (just from much closer):

The setbacks are roughly around the thirds of the building. There is no way to not see the setbacks with this angle. Now from the show:

There are no setbacks. Unless that whole long thing is just the top 3rd of the building, but that would be way too tall. 

And probably more importantly, we see Miami Tower in later episode still under construction! I believe Milk Run was filmed still in 1984. The tower was completed in 1987. It cannot be it.

And in fact isn't it weird how the whole thing is just one shade of light grey? Like what kind of lighting is that on the tower?

Well, I think it's just a light/white wall, partially illuminated by a street light or some other light source, a wall close to the door, some building across the road from it. 

Which leaves us in an unfortunate spot, because Miami Tower was a great clue. Honestly, if I'm right and that's just some wall, then these unusually large [probably motel] windows might be the strongest feature we have here!

[Tom]

vor 17 Stunden schrieb Paul Veres:

Actually @Tom scratch my previous message, we don't even need to look at the windows. I just imagined the drawbridge booth and we are both imagining the Miami Tower. It's not the building. 

Here is the angle we think we're looking at (just from much closer):

The setbacks are roughly around the thirds of the building. There is no way to not see the setbacks with this angle. Now from the show:

There are no setbacks. Unless that whole long thing is just the top 3rd of the building, but that would be way too tall. 

And probably more importantly, we see Miami Tower in later episode still under construction! I believe Milk Run was filmed still in 1984. The tower was completed in 1987. It cannot be it.

And in fact isn't it weird how the whole thing is just one shade of light grey? Like what kind of lighting is that on the tower?

Well, I think it's just a light/white wall, partially illuminated by a street light or some other light source, a wall close to the door, some building across the road from it. 

Which leaves us in an unfortunate spot, because Miami Tower was a great clue. Honestly, if I'm right and that's just some wall, then these unusually large [probably motel] windows might be the strongest feature we have here!

Of course I noticed the window size/location differences. But, as said, there are no other fitting houses anywhere near this spot and the chance that the building has been changed in this respect is intact, given the 1986 aerials.

As to the tower in the background: The Miami Tower was built in 1984 and the concrete construction finished in early 1985. It was completed in mid 1986 as can be seen in Streetwise in October 1986. In Made for each other -filmed 2 months after Milk Run - we can see that 2/3 of the tower basic construction has been finished already (see screenshot below). As the Milk Run scene was filmed with the camera placed very low and filming upwards, the tower in the background looks higher than it was and would fit with the construction state in late 1984. I compared that before I posted.

And what we see in the background is the Miami Tower, as it is statistically impossible that another building or even an arbitrary wall has coincidentally the unique shape plus fitting size and position of the tower. What is interesting though is the smooth gray surface on the tower silhouette.

 

[Paul Veres]

1 hour ago, Tom said:

Of course I noticed the window size/location differences. But, as said, there are no other fitting houses anywhere near this spot and the chance that the building has been changed in this respect is intact, given the 1986 aerials.

As to the tower in the background: The Miami Tower was built in 1984 and the concrete construction finished in early 1985. It was completed in mid 1986 as can be seen in Streetwise in October 1986. In Made for each other -filmed 2 months after Milk Run - we can see that 2/3 of the tower basic construction has been finished already (see screenshot below). As the Milk Run scene was filmed with the camera placed very low and filming upwards, the tower in the background looks higher than it was and would fit with the construction state in late 1984. I compared that before I posted.

And what we see in the background is the Miami Tower, as it is statistically impossible that another building or even an arbitrary wall has coincidentally the unique shape plus fitting size and position of the tower. What is interesting though is the smooth gray surface on the tower silhouette.

 

There are quite certainly no other fitting houses indeed, if you anchor to the Miami Tower. But if it's not the tower, the location doesn't have to be in this area, and then you also don't have to do all the stretching with unrealistic window and staircase modifications for this building which are not even registered with the county. 

Things don't really look taller when they are 1 km away, they look taller when you are looking at them from the bottom positioned close to them. The further you are the more proportional they look.

But we don't even have to talk about all that, the tower construction stage and proportions just don't work. 

While we cannot observe the tower just the same way they would have done on the show due to the vegetation grown since, we can easily simulate exactly the same angle by positioning ourselves on the highway:

This is what it looks like from there:

We are anchoring to the unique shape of roof like this:

Note that the red line lengths and angle actually don't quite work. And speaking of the distance, the multiunit building in question is further away than the vantage point on the highway, so if anything the angle between the roof lines should be more obtuse in the show, not less so.

But the key is, you have to see the setbacks difference, unless you only look at the topmost part of the tower and with lower setbacks hidden by landscape. During Made For Each Other the topmost part of the tower was the unfinished second setback. Even if we suppose that the developer didn't build a single floor in two months between Milk Run and Made For Each Other, you literally have to claim this to make it work:

 

But it just doesn't work, those [at most] 8 floors would have a much wider shape, not that slender shape:

Not to mention that at that point in time they are an empty black carcass of the future building - no construction site lighting would make them look like a solid block without empty space or windows. 

Miami Tower in that doorway is a mirage. It's something much closely and simpler, partially illuminated

Edited December 22, 2023 by Paul Veres

[Tom]

vor 18 Minuten schrieb Paul Veres:

There are quite certainly no other fitting houses indeed, if you anchor to the Miami Tower. But if it's not the tower, the location doesn't have to be in this area, and then you also don't have to do all the stretching with unrealistic window and staircase modifications for this building which are not even registered with the county. 

Things don't really look taller when they are 1 km away, they look taller when you are looking at them from the bottom positioned close to them. The further you are the more proportional they look.

But we don't even have to talk about all that, the tower construction stage and proportions just don't work. 

While we cannot observe the tower just the same way they would have done on the show due to the vegetation grown since, we can easily simulate exactly the same angle by positioning ourselves on the highway:

This is what it looks like from there:

We are anchoring to the unique shape of roof like this:

Note that the red line lengths and angle actually don't quite work. And speaking of the distance, the multiunit building in question is further away than the vantage point on the highway, so if anything the angle between the roof lines should be more obtuse in the show, not less so.

But the key is, you have to see the setbacks difference, unless you only look at the topmost part of the tower and with lower setbacks hidden by landscape. During Made For Each Other the topmost part of the tower was the unfinished second setback. Even if we suppose that the developer didn't build a single floor in two months between Milk Run and Made For Each Other, you literally have to claim this to make it work:

 

But it just doesn't work, those [at most] 8 floors would have a much wider shape, not that slender shape:

Not to mention that at that point in time they are an empty black carcass of the future building - no construction site lighting would make them look like a solid block without empty space or windows. 

Miami Tower in that doorway is a mirage. It's something much closely and simpler, partially illuminated

It´s an old wisdom that finding hairs in the soup is always easier than cooking it.

If you put half that energy in finding/confirming the location you should be able to provide a 100% proof location by tomorrow. But there was simply no other building in 1984 let alone any shiny wall that could look as close/high and like this at all. I presented the most logical solution. You are free to come up with something better and I am looking forward to it.

[Paul Veres]

20 minutes ago, Tom said:

It´s an old wisdom that finding hairs in the soup is always easier than cooking it.

If you put half that energy in finding/confirming the location you should be able to provide a 100% proof location by tomorrow. But there was simply no other building in 1984 let alone any shiny wall that could look as close/high and like this at all. I presented the most logical solution. You are free to come up with something better and I am looking forward to it.

Your solution is not most logical. In essence you say that somebody removed one window, changed the shape and position of another window, and added a concrete staircase, and all without registering that with the county. That is an unreasonable stretch on its own. But the geometry arguments showing that it simply cannot be Miami Tower are too clear for you to dismiss.

I trust you are interested in finding the truth, not being right. Like I said originally, I'm sorry to refute your solution without providing mine. I should not be able to provide anything by any time. However, the fact that I don't have an alternative doesn't make your correct.

[Tom]

vor 23 Minuten schrieb Paul Veres:

Your solution is not most logical. In essence you say that somebody removed one window, changed the shape and position of another window, and added a concrete staircase, and all without registering that with the county. That is an unreasonable stretch on its own. But the geometry arguments showing that it simply cannot be Miami Tower are too clear for you to dismiss.

I trust you are interested in finding the truth, not being right. Like I said originally, I'm sorry to refute your solution without providing mine. I should not be able to provide anything by any time. However, the fact that I don't have an alternative doesn't make your correct.

You say my idea with the tower is not logical, but cannot offer any alternative on your own. 

As I said it´s always easier to prove a possible location wrong than to find the only right solution among millions of potential possibilities. I was the first one to tackle this unknown location that was apparently in nobody´s focus. It´s open to everyone. If you have a better idea what the well lit "tower" could be, please share it. But it can´t be another tower as there was none like that in 1984 and a free standing column close to the house (no roof onto it) can be ruled out for logical reasons.

You should be more motivated to find the real location based on better idea instead of putting all your satisfaction in proving me wrong. But you seem to have given up on this already based on your answer.  I found hundreds of location over the years on my own and don´t have to prove myself. Location hunting is no ego trip for me and no dick-comparison contest either. There are half a dozen unsolved cases left and you are invited to channel your energy in constructive solutions to find any of them as your first MV location and share your find with the community.

Edited December 22, 2023 by Tom

[Paul Veres]

Just now, Tom said:

As I said it´s always easier to proof a possible location wrong than to find the only right solution among millions of potential possibilities. If you have a better idea what the well lit "tower" could be, please share it. But it can´t be another tower as there was none like that in 1984 and a free standing column close to the house (no roof onto it) can be ruled out for logical reasons.

You should be more motivated to find the real location based on better idea instead of putting all your satisfaction in proving me wrong. But you seem to have given up on this already based on your answer.  I found hundreds of location over the years on my own and don´t have to prove myself. There are half a dozen unsolved cases and you are invited to channel your energy in constructive solutions to find them.

Tom, I draw zero satisfaction from proving you wrong. I'm on your side. I want your "portfolio" of identified locations to be complete and unmarred by incorrect conclusions. I don't have a big mission of finding out all MV locations, that's you. To me it's just fun to analyze Miami-Dade landscape, Miami Vice or not, and I provided my feedback in the interest of supporting your goal of finding the location, that's all.

My idea of what the well lit "tower" is, is that it's just a shadow play, somewhat similar to the below photo, where the clear light/shade break of the shot could make you think that there is a different object of certain geometry which is the bright part.

Especially when it's a grainy image from the 80s and it's in some unfocused background in the back. So I think the "tower" is a side of some short building partially illuminated, meaning there is much more of that building, probably to the right of the bright part, and it's very close to the door, possibly right across some road from it, some 30 meters.

[Tom]

vor 5 Minuten schrieb Paul Veres:

Tom, I draw zero satisfaction from proving you wrong. I'm on your side. I want your "portfolio" of identified locations to be complete and unmarred by incorrect conclusions. I don't have a big mission of finding out all MV locations, that's you. To me it's just fun to analyze Miami-Dade landscape, Miami Vice or not, and I provided my feedback in the interest of supporting your goal of finding the location, that's all.

My idea of what the well lit "tower" is, is that it's just a shadow play, somewhat similar to the below photo, where the clear light/shade break of the shot could make you think that there is a different object of certain geometry which is the bright part.

Especially when it's a grainy image from the 80s and it's in some unfocused background in the back. So I think the "tower" is a side of some short building partially illuminated, meaning there is much more of that building, probably to the right of the bright part, and it's very close to the door, possibly right across some road from it, some 30 meters.

I understand your idea, because it´s the only explanation left if it´s not a tower. But unfortunately, there is no evidence for the idea that this could be a bigger building with the right side exactly blacked out/shadowed by some other object.

If we increase the adaptive lightning on the frame massively in order to detect any shadowed parts, we see no indication that this is something else than a well lit building with sharp edges on the right vertical side. 

Maybe you can come up with something to back this up, I have no clue what this structure could be if I look at Miami downtown in late 1984 (I checked all locations of this ep, as it is very unlikely that they travelled far for this very short scene).

[Paul Veres]

7 minutes ago, Tom said:

I understand your idea, because it´s the only explanation left if it´s not a tower. But unfortunately, there is no evidence for the idea that this could be a bigger building with the right side exactly blacked out/shadowed by some other object.

If we increase the adaptive lightning on the frame massively in order to detect any shadowed parts, we see no indication that this is something else than a well lit building with sharp edges on the right vertical side. 

Maybe you can come up with something to back this up, I have no clue what this structure could be if I look at Miami downtown in late 1984 (I checked all locations of this ep, as it is very unlikely that they travelled far for this very short scene).

Yeah, edges look really sharp. And with this enhanced image, all the setbacks geometry aside, I actually question even more that it is any tower because of its color, which you also noted. Thinking of downtown or Brickell at any time of the night, looking from any side, why the heck would any building, under construction or not, look like that. If the building is populated, you'd see some odd bright windows here and there, and when it's under construction it's just dark.

Here is a good example of a night shot of an under construction building from relatively far (it's a crop from a 10k pixel panorama photo of Brickell and Downtown together), where we can see the Aston Martin tower on the left, on the river: 

Not shiny at all, with not even any construction site illumination above the first floor. You do see some light reflection of the lights of other buildings on it, but that's because they installed glass as they were moving up. But as clear from Made For Each Other, Miami Tower didn't have any glass installed at that point to even reflect light. 

I have an image in my head of what this short partially illuminated building could look like, but I struggle to find an example online to share. I'll follow up as I find something, maybe even just live in the streets. 

As to the room itself, if we move on to other theories away from very tall slender skyscrapers (it really looks like the Panorama scale!), I would just look at exteriors of motels looking for large windows converging on the corner. I went along the Biscayne Blvd and SW 8th St just because they're famous for historic motels and didn't see anything, but that's not the best way. (1) Motels used in other episodes of the show, and (2) motels nearby other locations from this episode, would be better bets, I just don't readily know where they are.