Vltor's Bren Ten Update

[Gary1911A1]

Lipsey who is going to be the Distrubitor for the Sig 220 in 10MM Emailed me back yesterday and said they were expecting the first pistols in April and to contact one of their local dealers to get on a waiting list so I do think this is going to happen. I may hold out for one of the 4.4" barrel models as a bit lighter and easier to carry.

[Kavinsky]

also its worth noting that according to the latest issue of the american rifleman the 10mm glock model 20 in the 4th gen varriant is coming as well apparently

 

now with some sort of new optics system, and apparently sig sauer is branching out into optics and noise suppressors, and colt is bringing back the m1903/1908 pocket pistol in 380

[Gary1911A1]

There are two one GunBroker.com for sale for anyone interested. http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=476373015

[Kavinsky]

Now sold as I check this at 10:56 PM on the 6th, the last time I saw anything go that quick it was this little thing

 

http://miamiviceonline.com/index.php/gallery/image/3501-make-up-143-ferrari-512bb-targa-2/

http://miamiviceonline.com/index.php/gallery/image/3500-make-up-143-ferrari-512bb-targa-1/

 

2 hours and it was gone on ebay.

[Gary1911A1]

There is another Sig 10MM in Da/SA listed on GunBroker this morning for $1299.00. It's a 24 hour auction so it won't last long. wish I had the funds, but medical bills and my Mercedes SLK320 has been sucking up my money lately. When things stabilize with me I'll likely get one if these aren't limited production runs.

[Kavinsky]

Compressor I take it?

[Gary1911A1]

Compressor I take it?

No I have the 6 cylinder in the 320. The 230 has the compressor that gives problems. Looked at a 370Z today. It was $40,000 which I can't afford right now, but I'm sure the reliability is better.

[Kavinsky]

ah, I thought maybe the compressor had gone, is the car one made in the Chrystler era or the post?

Edited April 11, 2015 by Kavinsky

[Gary1911A1]

It's a 2002 model. No compressor on the 6 cylinder model.

[Kavinsky]

jesus hmm atleast you got your money out of it, and atleast you didnt have the rear suspension and metal work colapse like it did on my 01' years ago.

[Gary1911A1]

Won the bid on a Sig 10MM late last week on GunBroker. Funds and a copy of my Dealer's FFL have been sent Monday. I guess there is a slight chance I may get my Sig this week, but I'm expecting next week. I'll just be eating cheap for awhile. I think in many ways the Sig will prove to be a better pistol than the Bren Ten. No lowering the hammer by hand as a main advantage. I'll let you know how it shoots.

[Kavinsky]

your in luck, 10mm is plentiful to go along with it, a Cabbelas opened up recently in my area and there is a ton of 10mm ammo in there, some of it sig branded.

 

and its cheaper than .44 and .357 magnum, probably because their using all of that lead up for car batteries right now. and the best part is that some people arent even bothering to plug them in, thus their just running off of the gas motors anyways.

 

I think I liked it better when the idea was to use cooking oil in Diesel cars, until they got wise to that.

 

and I need to start reloading, but weirdly I think this is why I'm starting to see Mag Tech use Metal core ammo to keep the price down on 9mm.

 

anyways what version did you get, and what's the finish?

Edited April 21, 2015 by Kavinsky

[Gary1911A1]

I got this version: http://lipseys.com/itemdetail.aspx?itemno=SI220R510RTASMS Currently it's the only DA/SA version available and I wanted that feature.

[Kavinsky]

Hmm looks downright like the Burnett special really, they even blacked out the hammer on it

 

 

so it should be an awesome piece man, although I gotta wonder if its going to be MA approved, something I had forgotten about.

 

stupid consumer safety laws.

Edited April 22, 2015 by Kavinsky

[Gary1911A1]

Good video. I think this might be closer to Bad Sonny's Sig except for the rail and newer one piece slide.

http://lipseys.com/itemdetail.aspx?itemno=SI220R45RTSS

I already have two 220s' in .45ACP and really can't see getting another. They are the best DA/SA .45ACP Auto Pistol on the market in my opinion. Don't know if any of them are MA Compliant. I hope so.

[Kavinsky]

yeah 3 .45's is enough, its time for me to go try out some proper 10mm's lol

 

2 19's and the 645, Kimber gold match, Colt gold series 80 and the Smith, although I really like the slide design of the sig 1911, as it gives it a much nicer cleaner look, although my old gunshop owner was having trouble with the early extractors

 

and what can you say with the MA thing except this

 

http://fsguns.com/fsg_information.html

 

 

as they use the it must be drop tested thing as a way to restrict firearms in this state, even if its just the same model with a different finish, such as the 232 series it has to be drop tested, unless its a C and R model.

 

although now that we've gotten rid of the attorney general and that Cadiliac Deval Cat, that was friends with president stupid, things are getting better here, and that approved attorney generals list is eventually disintergrating and disapearing into obsurity it seems

 

still like anything else fear is the most powerful weapon, as it errodes your self confidence, and your common sense when it comes to law making,, and well see my last post in the gun thread about the recoil thing.

 

and the arc of movement thing with the binoculars.

Edited April 24, 2015 by Kavinsky

[Gary1911A1]

Well that site on approve MA was confusing to me, but it didn't seem Sigs were on the list. maybe it's time to consider what Sonny said at the end of the episode Freefall. Somewhere further South where the water is warmer and the drinks are colder or something to that effect. At 62 I'm retired without a a wife or children to hold me back. I have Cousins in Ormond Beach who would be glad to see me so maybe I should go myself.

[Kavinsky]

Yeah I'm thinking south dakota, as it has the lowest crime rate in the nation really, although the checklist to get my home ready to sell is long

 

Roof Insulation namely, as I have none and my heating bill is a 100% over the normal amount apparently

 

then redoing the insulation around the windows, as there is none and cutting down on the clutter and junk all over the place, then its going to be figuring out how ship and move everything, in addition to the repairs and changes I need to do to the collection, and then I look into putting the thing on the market.

 

hell the walther P38's overhaul bill was 200 some bucks and its due to be done next month.

 

although as I said with the new Govenor and the new general it is getting better, but that boston strong stuff is getting rather tasteless, and the news media up here is literally looking for abstract ways to scare people and to get better views.

 

 

the latest: Deer Ticks, and in other fun stories it was them complaning about the rusty floorboards on 7 to 10 year old nissian altmas, like really?

 

and I'll never forget this one, a 14 year old falls into the ice after a thaw, and what do they all do, they put her on a pedastool and interview her, EVERYONE in the news media interviewed this girl for falling in the ice after a thaw in moderately warm weather.

 

like what did you think was going to happen

 

 

literally its like I'm living in a Police Squad world, in color, and I'm one of the few noticing this

 

 

worst part, this wasnt a joke, I watched this happen live on TV in watertown

 

 

well, save for the zoo thing.

 

god help me if they have to storm a place close to my home, as if they do I'm going to be finding bullets in my hummingbird feeders for weeks!

 

and that would be one of things I would miss actually, I feed Yellow FInches, theres about 10 in my backyard right now, if not more, Cardinals, Blue Birds, Wrens, in addition to the hummingbirds that show up usually on Mothers Day.

Edited April 25, 2015 by Kavinsky

[Gary1911A1]

Picked up my Sig 220 in 10MM yesterday and immediately went to the range next to the shop to shoot some 30 year old ammo. The good news is the Sig was reliable out of the box, accurate with the old ammo, good DA/SA trigger, and the recoil was OK considering how hot the old Norma Ammo is. The only negatives Was it shot slightly to the left, although it could of been me and the recoil spring was stronger than expected, but with the beefier serrated slide not difficult to cycle another advantage over the Bren Ten with it's smaller slide that was difficult to grab. I'll shoot it more when I get some other ammo.

[Kavinsky]

one of the things I always do with a new gun is get a snap cap and just practice picking it up and finding the ideal hold, then pull the trigger until I get used to it

 

as my hands are on the huge side so the thumb can bump into the trigger finger and throw off my hold under fire, unless I have that down so it might be a good idea to do the same in this instance.

 

 

Brass snap though, as you dont want to damage the kicker, as the way the semi works is that the extractor holds it, but has enough play to slip onto it and hold it back, until the kicker shoots it out.

 

and the brass works as a shock absorber in semi's to begin with.

 

if that doesnt fix it, well it does have novak dove tails on it and it should be possible with the proper tools to adjust it to your shooting style, although it sounds more like a grip issue than anything else.

 

like maybe a set of packs would help, although with the 645 I tried a few grips until I just eventually went back to stock, also check the molds on the grips, see if theres anything between the grip screw and the grip

 

as the 645 had some sort of plastic build up from the grip, like it wasnt cut just right on one of the screws and it threw off my hold till I noticed it.

 

as I had tried polishing down or sanding the screw for that spot, thinking it was rough metal that was doing it, only to find latter the mold was uneven around that screw, and not the screw itself

 

and a little exactoknife cutting straightened that out, as the grips were that thin that I could feel it being 1mm too much, plus that is a pair of wood or kind of wood grips and well with anything natural like leather or wood, its not always perfect if at all.

Edited May 2, 2015 by Kavinsky

[Gary1911A1]

Here is a video review of the history of the Bren Ten by Larry Vickers. Sadly he may be correct that in this world of polymer striker fired handguns the Bren Ten may no longer have a future, but I think the recent success of the Sig 220 in 10MM and the continue production of the Witness in 10MM may indicate he's wrong. Just don't tell Larry I said so.

[Kavinsky]

Glocks and most strike fired guns dont have safeties, proper lever like safeties I mean though, and the trigger safety thing can be depressed if you bogart the thing accidentally, resulting in an AD, also the trigger pull of cop guns on SA can be upwards of 7 pounds, such as on the 4006 and a glock has a single trigger pull, which would and could be worse than that

 

and how many F'ing people have said the 1911, the revolver, the V8 and all that is gonna die, and I'm looking at you Mr Clarkson with that V8 one, no its not its going to evolve, look at the FNP, now that is the future of handguns, polymer frame, proper safety and all the features of the bren ten in a much lighter package, along with the very good and impressive HK45 and its deriviatves

 

 

 

and I am still impressed with that HK 45, I mean the USP was a piece of overhyped garbage in hand, but that, now that's something special.

 

and V8's will stick around, granted they may use direct injection or hybrid, and or this new flywheel hybrid thing, this or that, but with everything there is a solution or a way to get around it, and the bren ten was a reaction to the M1911 and its history in its time period

 

 

and what were its weaknesses, it had to be in carried in 3 ways with no real safety to any of the ways it was carried, outside of mag in and nothing in the slide, like a Colt SAA really.

 

the bren ten was a reaction to that, you can carry it with something in the slide safely and from a DA trigger pull that is not so light that you will set the thing off, like you could do with an m1911 if you were dumb enough to carry it without the safety on, one in and the hammer cocked.

 

and if you dont like that, the firing pin block safety could be engaged manually, rather than the one in the series 80 NM, of which who really knows if it works, and all you would need to do to remedy his complaints with it is to make it, the circle, wider but thinner, so your hand doesnt come in contact with it when you rack the slide but can still easily reach it when you want to turn it on, and to make it abit harder to accuate.

 

second thing was the frame, it went with Stainless steel as the M1911 will rust right where your hand meets the backstrap from wear and tear, and I know as I've had that happen to me,  hence why Cooper had his two toned and why people had two tone guns like that, where the bottom was nickel plated, ala the Colt ACE or stainless steel

 

third thing was the mag release, on the bren ten it was far more prevalent than it was on the standard M1911, which you had to twist to even use the damn thing, and its to the point where I'm looking at buying these grips to remedy it

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/161696252187?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

 

and thus like anything else everything is a reaction to everything else, the Ferrari 488 to the Lexus Lambo Ripoff, the M1911 to the Bren ten, and the FNP/HK's to the Glocks, all pick your own ways to remedy your feelings and concerns toward your purchase choices.

 

and for every person who wants a Hybrid, there is a cobra buyer to counter him, or it could be the same damn person looking for a regular use thing, and a fun use thing, and that's the thing about marketing and sales, its never predictable, just make a quality product and they will come, after all how many orders did the bren ten have back in the day lol

 

granted steel and stainless with get more expensive, but as long as the products quality and feels like quality, steel is here to stay, as the day I trade in my M1903 Springfield for a POS plastic crap box rifle in a groundhog cartridge and its souped up peashooter brother the 5.56 is the day the world freezes over.

 

and I can carry that thing one handed easy.

Edited June 20, 2015 by Kavinsky

[damrod]

Love my Colt Officers ACP

[Gary1911A1]

I think Larry Vickers is right when it comes to LE Agencies. They are not going to spend the money the Bren Ten would cost and will just go low bid with the Glock or M&P. Most of the Officers in my old agency can't shoot and complain about weight. Not their weight, the pistol and anything else on a Sam Browney Belt. People like us would buy a Bren Ten at a thousand plus, but most people I know just want the cheapest pistol they can buy, like a High Point.

[Kavinsky]

High point doesnt work though, its a piece of junk, and with the HK45 at 800 some bucks, a bren ten, provided it doesnt have any problems at about say 200 bucks more than that when the cost of making them would go down with how many they might end up making.

 

if they ever made the bloody thing, wouldnt that be far off, plus mold injected modling and theres nothing to say the bren ten M and P cant be modernized with an Aluminiumn or even polymer frame, hell or even something like this little oddity.

 

 

but the key would be to make the thing proper first, and make it so its good that word of mouth spreads about it, going oh I really like that gun but its alot of money, then hit them with the one two punch, and come out with a polymer or striker fired version

 

its almost like the car market in alot of ways really, you have the bread and butter, the polymer guns, then the guns that would be the top echelon, the ones that raise the water mark for the rest of them, which would be the full on bren tens.

 

 

plus look at colt python costs right now and how many people wish they could get one despite it apparently not being that great

 

 

2K+ for one and my father got rid of one back in the 1970's, saying it wasnt that great, now how many bren ten owners and people who want owners would want to buy one for half that cost that works?

 

and the fact that colt brought back the M1903 in .380 for about the same price as the bren ten probably would have leveled out to, and I bet their selling well

 

although they have a full on blued version for about a thousand, and a parkarized one for 800, and that's the thing, if they bring back the bren ten they need an M and P version again, something that doesnt cost as much, as in bringing anything to the market, you need the bread and water version to keep the funds coming in for the ones that might take awhile to sell

 

hence why Vltor shut down the project and put it on the backburner for those plastic crap boxes, The Ar15's, as those are going nuts because of the Presidental moron, his number 1 idiot coffee cup, and the complementary sign above his front door, I am the worlds best gun salesment

 

 

so its one of those things where I can see it working, if they do that, and what's to say the bren ten cant go the way of the striker fired pistol? hell rockstar even indavertantly did a artists rendition of how it might look for Vice City Stories.

 

 

its just a matter of vision and knowhow, hell how I would have opted to do the project is to focus on getting the feeling of the controls right, not the features of the bren ten, features come latter

 

basically focus on the frame feel, put a slab side on it and just gradually work it into a bren ten like shape after getting the controls right on, much like they did on the Falcon,which was damn near ready for production, AND sorted!, judging by what Carrado said in the book.

 

and its only because it was the clinton era that the funding got pulled by the banks. as you dont need a manual firing block or that adjustment to adjust how the mags come out, those can come latter.

 

you just need to do it like a german, get the feel and the recoil down to a good balance, and make it reliable, then get it to look closer to the bren ten. and all the falcon needed was abit of rounding on the slide, but they probably did it that way to build consumer confidence in it, much like I noted with my own reaction to the beretta 90 TWO

 

 

where they thickened the slide just where it failed on the P38, its parrent gun, and what's to say the falcon wasnt looking to do the same back then even if it didnt need it

 

as people need to have confidence in a product to buy it, granted the key selling point on it is the 10mm Cartridge, much like the major pull of the cobra's legacy is the 427 big block V8 that most people didnt need or couldnt handle, while the 289 was the sweet spot, and the 390 was the one that kicked the grand sports ass on the race track.

 

but there is nothing to say that the bread and water version cant be polymer and rigged up ONLY for the most avalable cartridges, 9mm, .40 and .45

 

so its all about hedging your bets, much like the movie industry does, as if you hedge your bets, you may loose a little bit of money on a shitty or vanity project like that Jupiter Rising movie

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jupiter_Ascending

 

but you'll make it back in the long run on DVD's or Legacy sales rather in this case, as long as the products quality in our case though

Edited June 22, 2015 by Kavinsky