Vltor's Bren Ten Update

[jama555]

Hi everyone: Just an update here. New member to the 10mm community and loving it. On a previous post here, I updated everyone that I had picked up a S&W 1006, new in box, never fired, and with adjustable sights. On top of it, it had some shop time as well, with a professional grade trigger job done and reinforced springs. It must have been intended for FBI use, in the day.In addition, I bought a Glock 20, in 10mm. I had my doubts about the Glock in this calibre but after shooting my friends', I was hooked.It may not be as cool looking as a Bren Ten or a S&W 1006, but for $539, new in box, with 2 magazines, it deserves some serious consideration. Each magazine holds 15 rounds, plus I was surprised on how well the trigger job came from the factory. In fact, the only thing I am thinking of adding are adjustable sights, and the armorer plug for the handle.Anyway, if Vltor cannot get off their ass and come up with the Bren Ten, let's give our business elsewhere.Take care. John

[Bren 10]

For me a Glock isnt an option, they dont point well for me and have no soul LOL, a SW however...

[Bren 10]

a kel tec is in that group? thats kind of odd for them... what kind of gun was it?

I love Kel Tec' date=' but the execution of their release for the RFB has failed, its been out for years and I have yet to see one in store, and I have distributors here, sure theres some for sale online, but they cant even deliver on the RFB, well see how they do on their new KSG shotgun thats comingRFB- [url']http://www.keltecweapons.com/our-guns/rifles/rfb/

[Gary1911A1]

I do hope the Bren Ten will be made again and hope it's introduced at SHOT 2012, but I'm not holding my breath. I'm afraid the day of metal frame pistols is passing us by except for 1911s' as I see more and more polymer frame pistols with some type of striker fired trigger system every year. If you like the 10MM I recommend the various S&W Third Generations like the 1006 you have. My favorite is the 1076 as I don't have to worry about unintentionally putting the pistol on safe when I work the slide. The S&W Autos in 10MM are starting to dry up so get one while you can is my advice.

[timm525]

Also, ammo around here in 10mm is hard to find. My local Wal-Marts doesn't carry it but they do occasionally have one box of Sig .357. And the prices have gone up a few bucks in the last few months too.If I was getting into the 10mm market, I'd buy the dies and reload. Of course it helps to already be set up for it. But if your planning on shooting a lot, then it would well be worth it especially for a caliber that is getting hard to find and is expensive when you do.

[Kavinsky]

me and have no soul LOL, a SW however...

indeed a glock 10mm may be about 400 bucks cheaper than the smith and wesson 1006.... but then you do what all gun collectors do and gawk at it and then suddenly you get an urge to get rid of it. at the range you love it, at home looking at it you hate it as that's just how it is with a glock

http://www.keltecweapons.com/our-guns/rifles/rfb/

kind of reminds me of a sized up famas (a stopgap like substitute for the M16 rifle when it first came out, I think) and I think they were coming out with a shotgun that looked just like that too, I remembered seeing when I used to watch nutinfancy on youtube during this years shotshow before his pompusness got to me (I switched over to hickok45 after that and occasionally I watch sooch00 although he kind of overdoes it a touch like everything fancy there)and Garry what you have to remember is that for every movement their is a counter movement with modern technology and methods and the same applies to firearms, while polymer pistols may be cheaper to produce there is a reason why SIG is making the 210 again and its for that very same reason, although I just wish it didnt cost an arm and a leghttp://www.sigsauer.com/CatalogProductList/pistols-p210.aspxConcerning the Bren Ten I am going to be bidding on a proof of concept pretty soon so I'll just go from there and then if its all its cracked up to be ill start saving for it.the REAL one, not the Vltor one as I dont think Vltor is ever going to make that thing and honestly I hope they don't because it'll be like the Star Wars franchise, something great that was milked for all its worth and that's how Vltor seems to be treating it by dragging us along like this.although thankfully not to the Star Wars extent, I'll still be able to enjoy the original without cursing out George Lucas, or vltor in this case... at least at this current stage.Anyway's heres to hoping someone bumps into Gunsite and CZ and gets them to make a proper .40 cal Jeff Cooper commemorative that has a manual locking block that gave the rear of the Bren Ten its distinct shape and a slide and frame that are similarly sculpted to match the Bren's distinct look.

Gunsite did after all just team up with Ruger to make Cooper's other gun, the Scout Rifle reciently so never say never and the Bren Ten was the grandaddy of the .40 Smith And Wesson and all of the guns that followed with its 10mm cartridge so it just makes logical sense that if you were going to create a homage to it you'd use a CZ 75 .40 call to do it with and all that needs to be done is some styling, the block and lengthening the barrel to 5 inches on the .40 B and possibly lengthening the frame to make it feel like a 10mm

[jama555]

I agree about the Glock being a very generic looking gun. However, it is like the AK-47 of the pistol world. It may not be the most accurate, but it is reliable, inexpensive, and fun to shoot. While it lacks the prestige of the S&W 3rd generation, it does not have half the kick of the metal frame pistols.They are still fun to shoot.

[COOPER&BURNETT]

Last I heard, they plan to have the Bren Ten gun available in the summer of 2012.Wikipedia states that the project was experiencing production delays attributed to a shift of resources to delivering on Vltor's urgent military contracts.Do you believe it, or do you not believe it?I wish they'd make the damn gun, as I want one. Been holding off buying a gun because I want it. (not in any hurry to buy a gun btw)

[jama555]

Last I heard' date=' they plan to have the Bren Ten gun available in the summer of 2012.Wikipedia states that the project was experiencing production delays attributed to a shift of resources to delivering on Vltor's urgent military contracts.Do you believe it, or do you not believe it?I wish they'd make the damn gun, as I want one. Been holding off buying a gun because I want it. (not in any hurry to buy a gun btw)[/quote']I will believe it when I see it. Any feedback on the Colt Delta Elite, 10mm, as a firearm? All I know that it is based off of the 1911 frame, but it has to have the recoil spring changed on a regular basis, due to being beat up by the 10mm round.I got to say that I am loving my Glock 20, in 10mm. For $545.00, it is made to handle the 10mm round. All I did was to put in a 3.5lb disconnector to smooth out the trigger pull and the Glock adjustable sight. It may not be the coolest looking gun, but it is a valued addition to my collection.

[COOPER&BURNETT]

It may not be the coolest looking gun' date=' but it is a valued addition to my collection.[/quote']I'll bet it has a powerful knock down if it hits a bad guy! That's what's important.I've always wondered what it would be like to own a 50 caliber pistol, like someone I know fired. Flames literally came out of the barrel I was told. Obviously, it's one EXTREMELY powerful weapon, but I wonder if it's accurate?

[jama555]

I'll bet it has a powerful knock down if it hits a bad guy! That's what's important.I've always wondered what it would be like to own a 50 caliber pistol' date=' like someone I know fired. Flames literally came out of the barrel I was told. Obviously, it's one EXTREMELY powerful weapon, but I wonder if it's accurate?[/quote']Well, the Glock 20 fires like the Glock 21, with high powered 45 cal rounds. Not much difference in kick.The Desert Eagle has a 50 caliber pistol, but it suffers from some problems, if you want to call them problems. I sold my Desert Eagle, .357 cal to make room for my Glock 20.The Desert Eagle, in 50 cal is very popular but the chief complaints are:1. Very heavy and bulky.2. Very heavy recoil.3. Very expensive handgun.4. Very expensive ammo.Other than that, it is a very cool handgun. Their internal mechanisms are second to none. Before investing in one, try going to the gunrange and renting one. The desert eagles run from $900.00 to $1500.00. You could buy two to three handguns for the cost of one Desert Eagle.

[COOPER&BURNETT]

Well' date=' the Glock 20 fires like the Glock 21, with high powered 45 cal rounds. Not much difference in kick.The Desert Eagle has a 50 caliber pistol, but it suffers from some problems, if you want to call them problems. I sold my Desert Eagle, .357 cal to make room for my Glock 20.The Desert Eagle, in 50 cal is very popular but the chief complaints are:1. Very heavy and bulky.2. Very heavy recoil.3. Very expensive handgun.4. Very expensive ammo.Other than that, it is a very cool handgun. Their internal mechanisms are second to none. Before investing in one, try going to the gunrange and renting one. The desert eagles run from $900.00 to $1500.00. You could buy two to three handguns for the cost of one Desert Eagle.[/quote']Thanks for the info. The guy I know who fired it also noted many of the things you pointed out, (heavy, expensive etc.). I don't really want one. However, if I was hiking in the deep mountains, and a Grizzly bear charged me....I'd feel confident having a 50 caliber on my hip.

[jama555]

The 50 caliber is a great handgun to have as backup for hunting. I would imagine that after a while, it would get very heavy.Believe it or not, the Glock 20, is becoming quite popular with hunters as a backup handgun. The 10mm is close to the 41 magnum. 15 rounds in the clip offers a lot of reassurance.I still would like to shoot a Desert Eagle, in 50 cal, just to feel what it is like. On an episode, of Son of Guns, the gunshop installed a shoulder stock for a 50 cal Desert Eagle. It turned out quite nice.

[COOPER&BURNETT]

The 50 caliber is a great handgun to have as backup for hunting. I would imagine that after a while' date=' it would get very heavy.Believe it or not, the Glock 20, is becoming quite popular with hunters as a backup handgun. The 10mm is close to the 41 magnum. 15 rounds in the clip offers a lot of reassurance.I still would like to shoot a Desert Eagle, in 50 cal, just to feel what it is like. On an episode, of Son of Guns, the gunshop installed a shoulder stock for a 50 cal Desert Eagle. It turned out quite nice.[/quote']The Desert Eagle is an interesting gun, but not practical for me. I too would like to shoot it just to see what it's like. I'll be there is stuff on you tube to watch.

[jama555]

I agree about it not being very practical. Most people sell their 50 cal desert eagle after a while. That is why they are very common at the gunshows. The better choice would be the 44 mag, Desert Eagle. Less cost for ammo, etc.

[COOPER&BURNETT]

I agree about it not being very practical. Most people sell their 50 cal desert eagle after a while. That is why they are very common at the gunshows. The better choice would be the 44 mag' date=' Desert Eagle. Less cost for ammo, etc.[/quote']Agreed.

[Kavinsky]

with the bren ten its still to be determined if and when they'll make it as they said the same thing about six months ago about it now, that now we'd have the bren ten and it would be in our hands by now.Basically they've been flat out lying and the only way to know if it will actually be out is to go to a gunshop and physically see it there in person or to see someone else using it at the range.and the 2012 shot show is coming up in las vegas where vltor has a booth and thats also where they debuted the bren ten in 09 there so if theres any news around the 17th of january in 2012 ill be sure to post about it but even then it should be taken with a grain of salt till its physically in a customers hands.

Thanks for the info. The guy I know who fired it also noted many of the things you pointed out' date=' (heavy, expensive etc.). I don't really want one. However, if I was hiking in the deep mountains, and a Grizzly bear charged me....I'd feel confident having a 50 caliber on my hip. [/quote']actually a better choice would be a .454 casull in that regard, like a freedom arms single action or a ruger super redhawk 2400 fps with 250 to 300 grain loads in .45 vs the deagles 330 grain 1,400 fps .50 call round and its the velocity that does the most damage provided its over .35 caliber like the bren ten 10mm which is .40 when it comes to handguns.but a rifle is always a better choice when it comes to handguns in that kind of condition and in the alaskan bush which my father actually hunted in the early 60's you want ATLEAST a 30 - 06 rifle and up like the ideal would be a .300 weatherby or a 7mm magnum, something with atleast 150 grains and I think moving at about 2500 - 3500 fps to deal with animials and deer that are that strong and resilient to the alaskan wilderness as anything less and they'll keep walking (or charing in the bears case) unless it was a perfect shot.

I'll bet it has a powerful knock down if it hits a bad guy! That's what's important.I've always wondered what it would be like to own a 50 caliber pistol' date=' like someone I know fired. Flames literally came out of the barrel I was told. Obviously, it's one EXTREMELY powerful weapon, but I wonder if it's accurate?[/quote']the gun is only as accurate as the shooter, even not match like firearms that shouldnt be able to shoot for shit can be very accurate at extreme ranges like this WW2 M1911 .45 acp GI gun provided the shoot can do his job with it

http-~~-//www.youtube.com/watch?v=GPDXNIiDFt4

and hickock45 can as an ex professional shooter of 30 years.FYI .45th of an inch diamiter bullets at 240 grains of weight moving at 850 fps is the normal standard for .45 acp like crockett's 645 and 4506 and that M1911 is what the caliber .45 acp was first made for in 1911, hence the pistols date there, ditto with the cz 75 that the bren ten was actually based off of as it means cz 1975as the full name of the 1911 is the colt military 1911 in .45 automatic colt pistol, hence acpand the 10mm is about 180 to 220 with the original designed load being ment for 200 grains at 1000 fps although they've made them much hotter than that velocity wise

http-~~-//www.youtube.com/watch?v=WGF4-wBXo_M

but the idea is to get the most power out of it you can for it as a military cartidge as anything above 1100 fps is supersonic and a suppressor cant really cover the crack of the bullet going supersonic and the 10mm was ment as sort of a good inbetween between the .45 acp and 41 magnum ment for military and police use instead of the 9mm which is noted for being a little lacking in the stopping power department, especally if the person using it isnt properly trained with it and cant make their shots count like alot of our new military recruits are hence the reports and grumblings about the 9mm, plus some think its ridiculious to go to .35 from .45 and I concure, ditto with 30-06 and .308 to .223 rifle wise.'hence the creation of the 10mm, 40 smith and wesson and the .300 acr and the .25 grendal all of which are probably better choices for that use of the firearms than what the military are using now.I mean there is a reason why Crockett used a .45 and not zitos 9mm smith even in the pilot with his high risk job as the 9mm is .35 caliber, 115 - 124 grains moving at about 1100 fps vs .45 caliber at 230 grains moving at 850 fps.and heres hickok45 with the deagle in .44 magnum, probably either 240 grains moving at 1400 fps or 180 at about 2,400 fps I think (even I forget the numbers after awhile)

http-~~-//www.youtube.com/watch?v=n1xj_3RvP2E

so theres no doubt they are accurate, although he said he had to clean out the gas system to get the deagle to work right but after that it was reliable.and in regards to them it seems like the 3rd version (mk21) of the deagle is actually lighter than the second version, the mark 7 as I picked up both and instally noticed there was quite a difference in the heft as one felt like plastic and the other steel although I still dont know why that was and I cant remember if there was actually a caliber difference.

[COOPER&BURNETT]

You sure know your stuff!Which handgun did Crockett use that is superior to the rest (including his back ups throught the series)? Superior meaning, stopping power, ease of use. Which would be your first choice?

[Kavinsky]

its kind of based on what you prefer velocity or stopping power, all of his primaries were good choices with no doubt that they'd do the job stopping powerwise and reliabile too if you could get a good bren tenalthough personally with the primaries the one I'm going to go with is the 645 with matt black grips and a few custom touches as the bren ten qc problems are very hit and miss on whether or not you could get a good one and the 4506 utilizes a funky weird grip system that requires a punch to even take the single piece factory grip offplus it doesnt look that great with a polished slide like crockett's had

http-~~-//www.youtube.com/watch?v=KbyXP6Ajb3M

although that one has non factory grips on it with a custom grip screw, his looked like this except with the polished slide http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=266213749and you can see the pin at the bottom on it and that requires a punch to get out to even clean under the gripswhile with the 645 you could clean under the grips easily by unscrewing the grips with a screw driver and with .45 acp you could easily pick up ammo with it from anywhere, it wouldnt be that cheap but its sill far easier to find and cheaper to get than 10mm in any form although on the smith forums someone has been making conversion barrels for the 1006 to allow you to use .40 smith and wesson rounds in them negating that point with the 1006 as .40 smith and wesson is as prevelent if not more so than 9mm and .45 and reasonabily priced and marginally cheaper than .45but then you've gotta change the springs and get a expensive custom barrel from the one guy making them in a garage so I think it'd still be easier to go with a devoted gun to one cartidge like the 645 with .45 acp as factory parts and everything else are available for it and its not a custom job like it would have to be with both the 1006 to shoot .40's in it and all of the bren ten parts in general and with the sig 220 .45 from the pilot they have alloy frames which never feel as good as proper steel frames as they conduct much more heat from your hands and thus feel sticky after awhile of range shooting or snap cap practice hence why when a 1911 guy tries it they usually go back to their steel framed 1911 despite what that idiot nutinfancy on youtube says (sorry I really just hate that pompus idiot with a passion)and the 645 and 4506 were a 100% steel unlike the sig 220, hence why damn near 30 years latter the people who had them still remember them fondly which I never really hear anyone say about the sigs and save for the bevertail and some extra tactical stuff they've made rails for on them their pretty much the guns they always were and hence why I skipped over his sig 220 awhile back that was a police trade in made in germany complete with the heel release like his in the pilot as I never felt any enthuasim towards it like I did the bren or the 645 when its rigged up properly although I did like the matt black finish it had just like the bren ten he had at the end of the second episode:and kinda wish we had seen more of the bren ten in its original finish like that except in the light as theres just something really professional seeming about a parkarized finish like that on it and I think that his bren ten was just an M and P with that matt black finish redone to look like a standard model with a hard chromed slide, although I like both of them equally as much when it comes to the finish of the bren ten, I just wish they hadnt bothered leaving the end of the barrel blued as it seems kinda off in the close ups or when the slide locks back and you see the blued end of the barrel like in "french twist" at the end when he's hanging over the bridge as the armorer only put one blank in for that shot.so for the primaries considering everything and discounting the vltor vaporware the 645 is the goto gun although they did make a version of the bren ten in .45 acp but the price of 2000 bucks for a gun that may be 50/50 shootabile vs 450 for a gun that is a 100% shootabile its just too much especially considering my personal connection to the series that served as the basis for the 645, the model 39 although I'd still love to have a vltor bren ten M and P standard model in .45 acp if it lives up to the hype and potental and if the price is only double that of the 645 at 1000 vs 1800 and up for a vintage bren ten example that has to be tested to make sure its safe to fire but if nothing comes of it I do eventually want to get a shootabile example of the bren ten regardless of the points I just made, just in additon to the 645 and its going to take a fair amount more money to make it a reality and to make sure its safe to shoot and its gotta be shootabile as I dont buy things to not use them and use them as models, atleast not when it comes to guns.backup wise he had 3 guns, a detonics pocket 9mm which was used throught the series by random people after the pilot like the ass from "Yankee Dollar"then his post pilot .45 acp detonics combat master which is single action only which means it can only be fired with the hammer cocked a huge detriment and hence why the smith 645/4506 series was a popular alternative to the 1911 series as police officers didnt want to have to carry it this way and I completely agree hence why I think I'd never carry an SAO as a carry gun or a pocket gunand for S4/S5 he had a smith 4516, a 3 1/2 .45 acp a Double Action only gun, meaning that it never went into a lighter trigger mode after the first shot but that the trigger can still be pulled and fire the gun without having to cock the gun like the detonics had to to even fire in the first placehonestly I think if I was crockett I would have kept the detonics 9mm as you just cant waste time cocking the gun in a life or death situation like he did with Reb Brown in "Viking Bikers From Hell" and both the smith 4566 and detonics combat master have been noted for having feeding trouble in both real life and actually on the show, specifically with the detonics combat master, but I've never heard that about the detonics 9mm, and its a backup gun so it may need to be a smaller caliber than the primary as one of your arms may be out of action so you may need the lower caliber to handle the recoil better, plus I kind of like the pseudo walther PPK lines of it although for all I know it was just as bad as the others feeding wise.although the detonics combat master when tuned up right will work right consistently just like alot of 3.5 inch guns, I've never heard of that for the 4566 though and while I never would carry a detonics as a carry gun it would make a hell of a range gun and I still kick myself for not getting that one that showed up awhile back at a local gunshop that looked exactly like this except with a black trigger and pachmayr wrap around gripsas I just have a thing about things that are just little powerhouses like it plus I have big hands that make large guns seem kind of small to me, I mean hell my 44 magnum model 29 -2 with a 6 inch barrel feels about just the right size for my hands along with a colt M1911 national match that I have so I always kind of like guns that look very atypical and have unique odd features about them like the bren ten with the hump on the back of the slide and the odd rear sights and hammer of the detonics combat master here.

http-~~-//www.youtube.com/watch?v=z9N61Ajs32A

and thats part of the reason why I want to have a few custom touches put on the 645 to bring it up to the bren's coolness level in that sense although I'm going to see if I can rectify my problem with the front sight by simply painting it matt black to match the rear sight and then if its got the hex pin right side safety like the example I used ontop there for the first photoI may just plain leave it alone provided is got the matt black grips on it I like like this one:http://www.miamiviceonline.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=5233&stc=1&d=1325063463http://www.miamiviceonline.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=5234&stc=1&d=1325063466either that or replace just the front sight with a novak unit and cap off the right side safety like on this single action conversion of a 645 that was done up by them a number of years agohttp://www.miamiviceonline.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=5232&stc=1&d=1325063460and as you can see the matt black grips make a huge difference in the way the 645 looks and those were only used on the ones made between 87 and 88' before the switch over to the third gen's like the 4506 in 1988 for late S4 early S5 with that funky one piece grip and crocketts 645 from early 86 used the gloss grips which seem to overpower look of the already polished up gun:

[Kavinsky]

although if I was doing MV today my choice for crocketts backup would be a rather odd overlooked gun, the sig 245except all black like his sig 220 in the pilot as they normally areas that ones been hard chromed by the factoryits basically a carry version of the .45 sig 220 which was discontinued in 2006 like the one he had in the pilot with a 6 round capacity just like the detonics combat master except with a 3.9 inch barrel as anything under 3.7 inches when it comes to barrel length can have feeding trouble if not set up correctly with a well polished feeding ramp and the proper power recoil spring hence the sometimes it works a 100% of the time and I love it and sometimes it doesnt and its junk reputation of pocket pistols over .32 acp with a 3.5 inch barrel like the walther PPK and PPK/S series although thats probably far more true of the stainless ones that the blued ones marked made in germany as interams may have had alot of stainless steel galing issues like AMT at the time hence the soured reputation of the walther series, although I have heard that 1 in 50 had trouble working right in regards to the german PPK's and PP's so its still a point to consider either way.and it wouldnt be a latter one with a bever tail or in SAO like the sig 220 elite carry as it prints through the clothes when trying to carry it in any form with that oversized bevertail plus what I already said about SAO's

http-~~-//www.youtube.com/watch?v=DtWlO6CXZgw

and I have heard nothing bad about the 245 series at all and I've heard that they are very reliable, ditto with the sig 220 carry elite as its the same barrel length just with a bevertail, SAO and a bigger magazine negating the chance of it even being able to be squeased into a pocket holster of any sort or for ankle carry.although going with a .45 in general as a backup gun is a little on the extreme side to begin with but we are talking about a man who lives on a city siezed boat with an alligator, a seized speedboat, a vintage seized ferrari and constantly deals with the smarter half of the scum of the city who have been living large on everyones blood sweat and tears here so he kinda needs every edge he can get when dealing with them and cant trust a lesser caliber to do the job, plus he was in the vietnamm war when they were using .45's so he probably saw just how ineffective the .223 round was against the vietnamese so he'd probably be weary of the new smaller military calibers they addopted back then and be more of the old guard type with a 30-06 M1 garand and the old .45 1911 in his holster rather than a 9mm and the M16 and even then he'd probably go for a higher quality .223 like he did with the Steyr aug in "Out Where The Busses Don't Run" if he had to go with a modern approved .223 rather than the M16and I have considered the 245 as a possibile replacement for the detonics I stupidly skipped over but I havent come across one yet but as I think it would be a range only gun and an alloy frame yet again so I might just end up going for the detonics if I find one first.

[COOPER&BURNETT]

You sure know a lot about guns. If I have a gun question, I certainly know who to ask!

[timm525]

I'll bet it has a powerful knock down if it hits a bad guy! That's what's important.I've always wondered what it would be like to own a 50 caliber pistol' date=' like someone I know fired. Flames literally came out of the barrel I was told. Obviously, it's one EXTREMELY powerful weapon, but I wonder if it's accurate?[/quote']This guy has a huge following on youtube in the gun world.Here is a 500 S&W, .50 cal.This thing is a wrist breaker.

http-~~-//youtu.be/J-FG9ZKerGM

[COOPER&BURNETT]

Question on the original BREN TEN. Seems it's in high demand. Is it because of MIAMI VICE, or because it's a good, accurate gun?Is it actually a good pistol? No need to tell about shortages on clips and the cost etc., is it a good gun? Is it a good design?

[Kavinsky]

Question on the original BREN TEN. Seems it's in high demand. Is it because of MIAMI VICE' date=' or because it's a good, accurate gun?Is it actually a good pistol? No need to tell about shortages on clips and the cost etc., is it a good gun? Is it a good design?[/quote']the design is solid and dependabile as its basically a sized up CZ 75 9mm to .40/10mm and .45 as the way the CZ patents were created it allowed anyone to make a gun based off of it without paying any money to CZ, even here in the US hence why the bren ten literally hit the market when the CZ 75 design was only about 9 years old in 1984and the CZ 75 is a proven and time tried firearm design that has now atleast a million examples made of it in 9mm, 40 and .45 since 1975 and will last a lifetime if built correctly without any QC problems like CZ makes them and this is the 9mm version by the way in the video

http-~~-//www.youtube.com/watch?v=WgDhURHa0OQ

now the major differences between the two is where with the .40 call version of the CZ 75 has a 4 inch barrel like it does in 9mm

http-~~-//www.youtube.com/watch?v=PU6A1O_x9xk

the bren ten had a 5 inch barrel (along with the smith 645, 4506 and 1006, the 10mm version of the 4506 that debuted in 1990)

http-~~-//www.youtube.com/watch?v=njU9De2Ushg

allowing for far better muzzle control in .40/10mm caliber and up as with the higher calibers you need a 5 inch barrel for it to be as shootabile as the smaller calibers and .40 smith and wesson is a much lighter version of the 10mm round putting out .45 acp 850 velocity with a 180 grain bullet usually vs the 1000 fps and 200 grains and up for the normal 10mm rounds http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U-ClEZPs 8 osfyi minus the space between the s, 8 and the os to see the video for the 10mm pistol vid.although they do sell much lighter rounds for the 10mm that are on par with the .40 in performanceand it is not advised to use .40 call ammo in a 10mm without a barrel made for it as the round is shorter and if shot enough it with it it will damage the barrel, just like putting 9mm in a .40 which is easy enough to do if your not careful while shooting guns in both calibers during a range daythe second is the manual firing pin block that the rear sights sit upon (hence the hump on the back) misscalled a hammer safety by the guy in the video

http-~~-//www.youtube.com/watch?v=DnPMoU288fk

as the CZ 75 till the B revision in 1990 I believe didnt have any sort of firing pin block at all, meaning if directly dropped on the hammer it could set the gun off, although while firing pin blockers are nice there not really needed as no one in their right mind would drop a loaded gun on purose made all the dumber by people in fiction yelling drop the gun when they should be saying put the gun slowly on the ground and put your hands up and then walk up to him and arrest him while another officer is picking up the gun, unless he's alone in which then you kinda do need to push it out of the way, although certainly not kick it! and CZ currently does not make a 10mm version of the CZ 75 but they do make a .45 called the CZ 97 with a 4.9 inch barrel but well....... she's an ugly duckling that I would never think of owninghttp://www.cz-usa.com/products/view/cz-97-b/along with the CZ 75 in 40 for the above reason plus I have the same reaction I have to the sig 220 with the normal CZ 75 to an extent, even with the original first model made in 75 - 77', although I think either version is alright lookingand the post 77 lengthened rail version:but I just honestly cant get enthusiastic about it like the bren ten as its just way to plain jane looking, atleast with the post 77' redesign although the original short frame ones are really hard to come by and I've never seen one in MA and I've only seen two pre B's period as they were forbidden from coming in to MA because of the bullshit droptests that the attorney general made mandatory for a gun to be allowed into MA back in 98 under mitt romney leadership and trust me Romney is very anti gun, please dont vote for him otherwise his bs trigger locks thing for MA along with that drop test crap might become madatory for the whole nation, plus he looks to be the replublican version of obama, all talk no walk and he never did anything besides make the gun owners life harder in MA and he never improved anything here, just came in everyday said hello and left at the end of the day after doing nothing and pissing off no one besides the gun owners, as he's really just in it for the fame and is not a true leader in any sense of the word, he's really just another brick in the wall that shouldnt even be there........ actually if anything he's a wannabe Kennedy and not even a good one at that.anyways the the quality control of dornaus and dixon the company is what has caused the problems with it, they were a first time start up company and had problems getting magazines in along with keeping mosture out of the molds and other problems with the slide castings for the firearm ect ect is what's caused dornaus and dixons demise despite the boost in popularity of the pistol by miami viceand I'd wadger if jeff cooper the man behind the idea of using the CZ 75 as a basis for the 1911's ideal replacement had contacted CZ directly and gotten them to make it instead of dornaus and dixon the bren ten would still be in production today and have a fine reputation amongst the firearm crowd, not just the mv and the 10mm fans if you had a good one back then.and really the vlor stuff about redesigning the pistol to take the extra pressure, bla bla bla is all said good and done but really it doesnt really need it as when made right with no mold or casting problems they have lasted atleast 4000 rounds and 30 years with no problems at all and atleast two of the members of the bren ten forums are still shooting theres and one of them is the one with 4000 rounds and still ticking, although it might be a good idea to change the recoil spring at that point. although a little extra metal around where the recoil spring holder is and the frame cant be a bad thing as the 1006 is noticibly heftyer in that area than the first gen Smith 4506's smith 4506:Smith 1006:and look at the area around the trigger guard, although it was probably easier for them not to cut that area and it probably wasnt done for prepairing it for the 10mm round but still like I said maybe just make the steel and the frame a touch thicker or longer or both just to be safe as the frame does seem a touch short around the recoil spring and the end of the slide in this video at 1:14

http-~~-//www.youtube.com/watch?v=DnPMoU288fk

like it couldnt hurt to lengthin the frame to fully cover the guide rod and the spring on the bottom and envelope more of the slide rails, although vltor could have easily done that and got the gun out long ago without any problems so I'm not cutting them any slack with that second redesign BS, if anything its a cost cutting messure to see if they can make it for cheaper and sell it for higher.and if was waranted it was probably a redesign of the shorter version the special forces model that has been noted for having more slide breakages than the standard models from back then.

[COOPER&BURNETT]

Thank you.