Kavinsky Posted February 14, 2012 Report Share Posted February 14, 2012 yeah they do have their flaws, drove me nuts trying to figure out why some 645's looked better than others and it wasnt till someone I was talking to at the smith and wesson forums mentioned the brushed stainless finish that it all clicked with the 645hell if I find a latter one with a hex pin safety I may just leave it alone and leave it as is, I mean that matt gripped one looked pretty good there and better than the one I handled at the gunshow I handled a few months agofar better actually.plus the bren ten just looked like nothing else out there and still doesnt, the 645 and 4506 however were based on existing designed of about 30 years at that point so they werent that distinctactually if you want to go the bren ten route there is actually an alternative to it, would require custom work to get it to look like a bren though.and yeah My heads swooning too, that's the problem when researching something like this, you usually end up with a headache after doing it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary1911A1 Posted February 14, 2012 Report Share Posted February 14, 2012 There are many variations of the 4506, different frames and three kinds of rear sights. The one Crockett carried in season 5 was the one with the hooked trigger guard and the plain rear blade for the rear sight and not the Novak. Many gunships don't know the difference and will just get you anything. My advice is to just find a clean 546 with a fixed rear sight. That was you can't go wrong and Crockett carried that one for two seasons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavinsky Posted February 14, 2012 Report Share Posted February 14, 2012 Well 3 seasons counting the 645 and the 4506 transitional and theres basically 4 variants of the 4506, 5 if you count the 4505 and 6 if you count the 10mm version1987645 transitional with a squared/hood trigger guard like he had with a 645 slide and frame using the 4506's grips1988: 4506 with squared/hook trigger guardand please note how the beadblasting looks as good as the hard chroming at night! part of the reason why I damn near bought one.and wish they'd had stuck with this style with the 4506 http://www.miamiviceonline.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=3784&stc=1&d=1308069760http://www.miamiviceonline.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=3785&stc=1&d=1308069763instead of polishing the slide and leaving the frame, the one thing we dont see for the most part matthttp-~~-//www.youtube.com/watch?v=1cGH9GXnikg&feature=related1990 - 1996 I think4506 now marked with a -1 and now with rounded trigger guard and a non milled in the front frame for added strength for the 10mm version10mm version was introduced for FBI work, called the 1076 along with a 10mm version of the 4506 called the 1006 which was the better built of the two and has stood up to the high powered loads of the bren ten norma loadings with no problems as long as its got the right springs in it discontinued in 1994 for BS politcial correctness issues and the growing popularity of its offspring, the .40 smith and wesson although glock beat them to the market with their own .40 call version of the 4506 and the smith version wasnt very good as at that point QC had gone out the window because of the lost sales of the clinton agreement and new management running the place into the ground1996 - onwards4506 - 1 thats same as above with the frame and non milled front frame except with ugly billboard lettering and black metal injected parts stuck all over it that are heavily at odds with the rest of the gun, basically looks more like an airsoft version of the earlier 4506 than a real onemade during the clinton era agreement, smith and wesson management would change again in 2000 and smith and wessons products has somewhat improved for the most part, but nowhere near the pre 1980 to late 86 to 87 - 1993 levels of qualitySights wise theres three versions:Normal smith and wesson rear sights like on Crockett's 645 and 4506/645 transitionalSmith and wesson part of the slide target rear sightboth of the above are great in their own regards and both the 645 and the 4506 had this same option to go with either the same stock rear sights or an M1 garand like target rear sight with metal sides that stick up over the sides to prevent snagging and damaging the rear sight if you were to drop it or from wear and tear and I believe the target sights were full adjustable too, so its just another matter of personal preference, for me I'd go with the stock rear sightand the usually added on Novak rear sights that pop up on earlier models which had the normal rear sights first as you cant replace the target rear sights as they are actually part of the slide and thus can not be changed over and they pop up latter ones too although I believe they may have come as standard towards the end of the run for the 4506 from 2000 - 2007, which were only ment as LEO guns only but a few have poped up on the civlian market as they move over to other guns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators timm525 Posted February 14, 2012 Author Administrators Report Share Posted February 14, 2012 546 with a fixed rear sight. That was you can't go wrong and Crockett carried that one for two seasons.One of us is dyslexic I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
COOPER&BURNETT Posted February 15, 2012 Report Share Posted February 15, 2012 This is awesome stuff with lots of info.I just can't decide what to do. I guess I'll just wait again till I decide what I'm going to do. Damn, I wish they'd come out with the new Bren Ten and be done with it.Yeah, I know.....I know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jama555 Posted February 15, 2012 Report Share Posted February 15, 2012 Well, got to say that the detailed responses here are just awesome. I wish I could say I knew as much as the others here about guns, but I do not but that is why there are members here that contribute such great information about the variances between the 645, and the 4506, and the hybrid.About getting hold of a decent 4506 or 645, I agree with others about going with the 4506. The 4506, as stated here, has better features. It took a little while to get used to the curved, hogue grips but they work for me. Where to find, well, persistence and patience, and don't overpay. Some gunshops have gun brokers that can help you find discontinued firearms.Other sources are the gun auction sites or the gun shows. Many people who inherited their dad's 4506 or 645 find that it is too heavy and bulky and trade them in for a lighter, polymer based gun. That is how I got my 4506, 1006, 4586, and my 645, which I sold. The 645 was just beaten to death, with holster wear, and scratches. It did shoot great, however. I bought all of my 3rd generations S&W at the same gun show, different times, and from the same vendors. After going to the shows, you will find specific vendors carry older, classic hand guns.Best of luck. John. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jama555 Posted February 15, 2012 Report Share Posted February 15, 2012 This is awesome stuff with lots of info.I just can't decide what to do. I guess I'll just wait again till I decide what I'm going to do. Damn' date=' I wish they'd come out with the new Bren Ten and be done with it.Yeah, I know.....I know. [/quote']Just curious, how much are the Bren Tens going to cost? Second, how much are the magazines going to cost as well? Hopefully, less than $2,500.00 for the gun and less than $100.00 for the magazines. I know, if I had a chance, I would buy one too.Best of luck with your search. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
COOPER&BURNETT Posted February 15, 2012 Report Share Posted February 15, 2012 Just curious' date=' how much are the Bren Tens going to cost? Second, how much are the magazines going to cost as well? Hopefully, less than $2,500.00 for the gun and less than $100.00 for the magazines. I know, if I had a chance, I would buy one too.Best of luck with your search. John[/quote']I think they originally said it would sell for under $1,000.00. The rest... I don't know.I just want one. I'd even pay a whole lot for the rare soft air version. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jama555 Posted February 15, 2012 Report Share Posted February 15, 2012 I think they originally said it would sell for under $1' date='000.00. The rest... I don't know.I just want one. I'd even pay a whole lot for the rare soft air version.[/quote']Me too. $1000.00 seems reasonable. I am wondering if they are made the same as the old Bren Ten. Take care. John. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavinsky Posted February 15, 2012 Report Share Posted February 15, 2012 Just curious' date=' how much are the Bren Tens going to cost? Second, how much are the magazines going to cost as well? Hopefully, less than $2,500.00 for the gun and less than $100.00 for the magazines. I know, if I had a chance, I would buy one too.Best of luck with your search. John[/quote']I agree, I'd rather go for a bren if its a tested, fully shootabile bren ten in .45 acp it was avalabile for a sub 1500 price with three working good magazines and made by a good company.but that aint going to happen.and 1K was the quoted price two years ago when all of the distributors including an ammo company were expecting them to come out with it, best guess if it does ever come out is that its going to be about 1.5k minimalas if anything their going to charge as much as the old one just from the way they've treated everyone over at the bren ten forums, hell they pretty much told an afghan vet who wanted answers about it after contacting them from half way across the world while on duty about 6 months ago to basically fuck off reciently if you dont like what we're doing after he PM'd them about why their was no sign of the bren at the 2012 shot show and we're just going to get around to making it soonand their saying this AFTER 4 years of waiting, testing and having a shooting prototype at the 2009 or 2010 shotshow which I've seen photos of.hard chromed like Crocketts no less.frame redesign my ass, I've given them more than enough time and I know I can make either the 4506 or the 645 look just as nice as the bren ten for about a fraction of what their probably going to charge us.plus why would I support such a devious backhanded group of assholes who have manipulated us for so long about something I dearly care about, hell I care about as much for the bren ten as I do the daytona.and the bren ten their making wont have any interchangeable parts with the original bren ten, hell I'm starting to think that all it is a redone EAA witness to look like a bren ten as thats the kind of mags its going to be using.would explain why it was such a low price for the gun, why it was so quickly put into the prototype stage. prototypes of guns usually take about anywhere from 4 - 5 years to bring to market, 2 years in development down low, announced at a shotshow and then on the market the next year. and then another year of the customer testing the damn thing for problems which seems to be the modern smith and wesson way as they dont test in the rear world, only a computer which is a huge mistake when it comes to QC.and they had a shooting lookalike of the bren ten in basically a year, makes you wonder doesnt it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jama555 Posted February 15, 2012 Report Share Posted February 15, 2012 I agree' date=' I'd rather go for a bren if its a tested, fully shootabile bren ten in .45 acp it was avalabile for a sub 1500 price with three working good magazinesbut that aint going to happen.and 1K was the quoted price two years ago when all of the distributors including an ammo company were expecting them to come out with it, best guess if it does ever come out is that its going to be about 1.5k minimalas if anything their going to charge as much as the old one just from the way they've treated everyone over at the bren ten forums, hell they pretty much told an afghan vet who wanted answers about it after contacting them from half way across the world while on duty to basically fuck off if you dont like what we're doing and we're just going to get around to making it soonand their saying this AFTER 4 years of waiting, testing and having a shooting prototype at the 2009 or 2010 shotshow which I've seen photos of.hard chromed like Crocketts no less.frame redesign my ass, I've given them more than enough time and I know I can make either the 4506 or the 645 look just as nice as the bren ten for about a fraction of what their probably going to charge us.plus why would I support such a devious backhanded group of assholes who have manipulated us for so long about something I dearly care about, hell I care about as much for the bren ten as I do the daytona.and the bren ten their making wont have any interchangeable parts with the original bren ten, hell I'm starting to think that all it is a redone EAA witness as thats the kind of mags its going to be using.would explain why it was such a low price for the gun, why it was so quickly put into the prototype stage. prototypes of guns usually take about anywhere from 4 - 5 years to bring to market, 2 years in development down low, announced at a shotshow and then on the market the next year. and then another year of the customer testing the damn thing for problems which seems to be the modern smith and wesson way.and they had a shooting lookalike of the bren ten in basically a year.[/quote']Thanks for the updates. After this great advice, I will stick with my 4506 and 1006. 1500 dollars for a carbon copy of the original bren ten, when parts are not interchangeable, does not appeal to me. I would rather buy an airsoft bren ten. Thanks. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavinsky Posted February 15, 2012 Report Share Posted February 15, 2012 well if that guy makes a model of it again like I've got ill give you a heads up.I bought a resin model of the airsoft gun which is slightly smaller than the bren ten off of ebay about 6 months ago as a proof of concept if it was really worth it to go after one and it would be.guy was making a few of them and then he disapeared off of the radar, reason why I went for that and not the airsoft gun is simply because the airsoft guns are harder to find that the real bren ten. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jama555 Posted February 15, 2012 Report Share Posted February 15, 2012 How do the EAA witness in 10 mm stand up to the competition? I am only familiar with the Bren Ten, Colt Delta Elite, S&W 1006, and the Glock 20? The EAA withness is going for $774.00 on line. Just curious. Take care. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
COOPER&BURNETT Posted February 15, 2012 Report Share Posted February 15, 2012 well if that guy makes a model of it again like I've got ill give you a heads up.I bought a resin model of the airsoft gun which is slightly smaller than the bren ten off of ebay about 6 months ago as a proof of concept if it was really worth it to go after one and it would be.guy was making a few of them and then he disapeared off of the radar' date=' reason why I went for that and not the airsoft gun is simply because the airsoft guns are harder to find that the real bren ten.[/quote']I did the same thing. I never painted mine. Did you paint yours? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavinsky Posted February 15, 2012 Report Share Posted February 15, 2012 from what I understand the normal pistol cartridge ones (9mm in particular along with .40 SW and .45) are apparently somewhat solidalthough when it comes to 10mm they just cant stand up to the stress of the cartridge and theres a guy on the bren ten forums with what I presume is a 10mm version whos had to get 3 new slides for the thing already that have broken from the stress of the cartridge puts on the slide.plus a cracked frame I believeand what my old gunshop owner said to be about them didnt exactly inspire confidence in them as he flat out told me their shit.however garry here is using a SAO Eaa Witness match in what I presume is .45 acp as a bren substitute and hasnt reported any problems so if you like the thing that would probably be the goto one to go to.and according to the smith guys they've had to redesign the frame of the 10mm model sometime in the past couple of years to take the cartridge although that was the first time I'd heard of it.so basically its kind of like the actual bren ten in a way, 50/50 shot if you get a good one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavinsky Posted February 15, 2012 Report Share Posted February 15, 2012 I did the same thing. I never painted mine. Did you paint yours?yeah I went for gloss black, should have gone for matt though (I've got a thing for the M and P model like he had in heart of darkness and I didnt think the paint would turn out that glossy)mine was fairly rough and took alot of work to get to the shape its in now, but hey for 2.50 cant really complain although I did break the trigger off by accident while playing with it (air buble in the resin) and thus I need to get some resin glue.still I'm glad I have it nonetheless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jama555 Posted February 15, 2012 Report Share Posted February 15, 2012 from what I understand the normal pistol cartridge ones (9mm in particular along with .40 SW and .45) are apparently somewhat solidalthough when it comes to 10mm they just cant stand up to the stress of the cartridge and theres a guy on the bren ten forums with what I presume is a 10mm version whos had to get 3 new slides for the thing already that have broken from the stress of the cartridge puts on the slide.plus a cracked frame I believeand what my old gunshop owner said to be about them didnt exactly inspire confidence in them as he flat out told me their shit.however garry here is using a SAO Eaa Witness match in what I presume is .45 acp as a bren substitute and hasnt reported any problems so if you like the thing that would probably be the goto one to go to.and according to the smith guys they've had to redesign the frame of the 10mm model sometime in the past couple of years to take the cartridge although that was the first time I'd heard of it.so basically its kind of like the actual bren ten in a way' date=' 50/50 shot if you get a good one.[/quote']and according to the smith guys they've had to redesign the frame of the 10mm model sometime in the past couple of years to take the cartridge although that was the first time I'd heard of it.That is the first I have heard of that as well. My understanding that the 1006 was one of the few 10mm that could handle the hot loads as well. It was recommended to have the 1006 customized with stronger springs, and reinforcements. My 1006 appears to have a custom trigger job with stronger springs, per the gun shop that sold it to me. The frame of the 1006 does appear to be sturdier and heavier than the 4506, when I compared them side to side.Thanks for the input. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
COOPER&BURNETT Posted February 15, 2012 Report Share Posted February 15, 2012 yeah I went for gloss black' date=' should have gone for matt though (I've got a thing for the M and P model like he had in heart of darkness and I didnt think the paint would turn out that glossy)mine was fairly rough and took alot of work to get to the shape its in now, but hey for 2.50 cant really complain although I did break the trigger off by accident while playing with it (air buble in the resin) and thus I need to get some resin glue.still I'm glad I have it nonetheless.[/quote']I've sanded mine, but haven't painted it. Yeah, I have seems on mine, and an air bubble in the trigger, which has almost fallen off, but not yet. I planned to have it primered, and painted silver, or plated. Most likely, knowing it still won't look perfect, I'll go for the cheaper way to do it sometime. I've NEVER seen the airsoft version for sale anywhere. They were all gone by the time I got word it was made. The airsoft is shown on you tube. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavinsky Posted February 15, 2012 Report Share Posted February 15, 2012 and according to the smith guys they've had to redesign the frame of the 10mm model sometime in the past couple of years to take the cartridge although that was the first time I'd heard of it.That is the first I have heard of that as well. My understanding that the 1006 was one of the few 10mm that could handle the hot loads as well. It was recommended to have the 1006 customized with stronger springs' date=' and reinforcements. My 1006 appears to have a custom trigger job with stronger springs, per the gun shop that sold it to me. The frame of the 1006 does appear to be sturdier and heavier than the 4506, when I compared them side to side.Thanks for the input.[/quote']looking at them I half wonder if thats just an assumption on some other persons behalf as it looks like the frame was extended on the front for the picany rail on the bottom of the latest revisionI've sanded mine' date=' but haven't painted it. Yeah, I have seems on mine, and an air bubble in the trigger, which has almost fallen off, but not yet. I planned to have it primered, and painted silver, or plated. Most likely, knowing it still won't look perfect, I'll go for the cheaper way to do it sometime. I've NEVER seen the airsoft version for sale anywhere. They were all gone by the time I got word it was made. The airsoft is shown on you tube.[/quote']I think they were gone before they were even made to be honest, seems like theres none here in the US, like it was a japanease only clone and I'd only go for the paint as I dont quite know what the plating would do to the resin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
COOPER&BURNETT Posted February 15, 2012 Report Share Posted February 15, 2012 I think they were gone before they were even made to be honest' date=' seems like theres none here in the US, like it was a japanease only clone and I'd only go for the paint as I dont quite know what the plating would do to the resin[/quote']The paint will cost me more than the $2.00 resin gun cost me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavinsky Posted February 15, 2012 Report Share Posted February 15, 2012 the thing is though that I've been a modeller since I was a kid, so was my brother and my father actually so I had the stuff lying around and this is probably why I pay such keen attention to detail as I basically learned to to do that when I was young on my own.I mean you wonder why I pick up on the smallest of details thats whyalthough I believe I used a spray can of that black coating thing, I think its called manolioum or something from the hardware store for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary1911A1 Posted February 17, 2012 Report Share Posted February 17, 2012 One of us is dyslexic I think. That would be me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bren 10 Posted February 29, 2012 Report Share Posted February 29, 2012 Ive given up on these. I can no longer waste time on vaporware, sad as i really wanted one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavinsky Posted February 29, 2012 Report Share Posted February 29, 2012 Ive given up on these. I can no longer waste time on vaporware' date=' sad as i really wanted one[/quote']I know, the only way we're going to get anything close to it is to start a petition to get CZ to make a proper 5 inch barreled version of the normal CZ 75 in 10mm, which could happen as I've heard the CZ ZP 101 in .40 is apparently as solid as a rock so they can make fully 100% solid .40 calls apparently.anyways but we still got the smiths and thats what I came here to post about, a 645 transitional model like Crockett's S5 gun just poped up on gunbroker misslisted as a normal 645 http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=275871830as you can see the dimensions do seem a little different from the normal 4506, like it actually looks a touch thinner than the normal 3rd gens which would be because its using the frame and slide of the 645 as its basis where as it seems like they made the frame thicker and used a different looking slide on the normal 3rd gens.its seen some wear though, thats for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother in Arms Posted March 29, 2012 Report Share Posted March 29, 2012 wow i have see your photo i find the guns great :clap: i am a fan of the german fan community Only In Miami Is Cuba So Far Away Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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